SHOULD i be upset? (date with his ex)

[iqqi]

So i have basically been seeing Playarappaboy since mid december. neither one of us really wanted to like each other, but we really do. so despite the fact that we both just got out of serious (-ly fcuked up) relationships and are cautious as hell, despite his really busy schedule (his album is about to come out), we are together all the time. plus i sleep with him more than i sleep at home. he even leaves me asleep in his bed while he goes to work. it's like it is very intimate- but we both have these walls up still.

with that out of the way, here is what went down.

yesterday we wake up. (hee hee...). he has a meeting with his group members in half an hour, then he says he is supposed to meet a friend to eat, then another friend is having a birthday party. he'll talk to me later. i leave, go bout my bizness.

at 10pm he calls. asks me if i can come and get him. sounds distraught, says person he is with has left him waiting in their car, and over an hour has passed he is really upset. he is going in all directions, and then having second thoughts about even asking me to come. but i tell him to relax, its ok, i'll be there in five minutes.

he is really upset when he gets in the car. i ask him what happened. he tells me "all kinds of bullsh!t, you need to be sitting down for me to tell you"

i can tell he is hesitant about telling me, and so alarms are going off.

i tell him, seeing as i am driving a car, i am sitting. what happened?

he says "i had a bad feeling, when they turned towards this way, but they just wanted to leave a note on the door" he is making no sense at all.

who is "they"? i ask him. he is quiet for a second, then he says "my ex."

he says she has been harassing him to get together, he didn't really want to, but she is leaving for good, so what the hell. they went out to eat, things were going great, this that and the other, seems like things were going to end on good terms and what not. until this.

then it is quiet. the way he was so hesitant about telling me the real deal makes him look kind of bad. i am feeling really weird. plus things just don't seem to add up. he makes it seem like she is physcho, won't let go, he is the one who ended it, and it is OVER. he just comes out looking too innocent in the whole thing. as well as the fact he is so upset about what just happened with her. plus he just KNOWS i am upset. it is like he KNOWS i should be.

should i be?

 

[ManOMan]

my 2 cents,

He must have been talking to his ex before to have set up a meeting (never told you)

Went to go meet her (never told you)

Took no self-reliant measure to cover up his Gaffe, but chose a Free ride home vs possibly upsetting you

Should you be upset at his actions?

That all depends on what level of commitment you have to each other (is he obligated to tell you his business and vice versa?)

If you havent made any type of commitment to each other and are just simply dating each other, he has the right to see whoever he wants

should he have been more tactful and sensitive? sure

 

[iqqi]

just to clear up a few things

Originally posted by ManOMan
He must have been talking to his ex before to have set up a meeting (never told you)

they don't have each other's numbers. this is part of how he makes her seem psycho. says he had it changed a few times. she gets a hold of him randomly. (showing up at his place, leaving notes, or she'll happen to be driving next to him on the street, ect. ect.)

Originally posted by ManOMan
Took no self-reliant measure to cover up his Gaffe, but chose a Free ride home vs possibly upsetting you

he could have called someone else. his boys, for example.

so i feel like on one hand, he thought of me first in his "time of distress", but on the other hand, i feel like he used me (emotionally) to fill in whatever cavity she she created by leaving him in the car.

BTW, thanks manoman, for your 2 cents.

 

[NewMan]

You both owe each other nothing at this point.

You both have walls up - and are pretty casual - from what I gather.

Did he call you because no one else could pick him up? who knows? but he called you anyways.

I don't think you should be mad - why would he tell you something like this at this point?

what this does give you is the opportunity to address this situation - and open the discussion on what you both expect from each other - should you want to discuss this.

 

[Big Pappy]

Ah, Iqqumus! Good to see you back, but sorry to hear you're stressing over one of life's little valleys.

Big Pappy perspective: Should you be upset? Well, yes. At him? maybe not. I think I need to know a few more things.

1. Was there any mention of exclusive dating?
2. How do you KNOW they didn't have each other's numbers? Is it a hunch or something he said?
3. This reference to "You need to be sitting down to hear this" comment sort of hangs out there like an erection that's just a bit too large.

If you "need to sit down", it's generally because you'll be weak in the knees or upset and he'll need a head start to get away if you beconme psycho.

Either way, he's expecting a reaction from you of some kind. I don't know the fellow's reputation for womanizing. If he has a history of cheating that's one thing. If he has a reputation for being a ladies man, that;s something else.

Like it or not, how he works it in bed is another factor. If he's really good,(or just fun or really attentive and sweet or some combination thereof) this ex girl of his may be a psycho and looking to re-establish ties.

I believe you mentioned that he said that she was leaving for good. Apparently he wanted to leave things with her on a good note. On the surface, this sound real magnanimous.

The thing is, we still don't know what he was so hot and bothered about! This cryptic "leave a note on the door" - ?
What is that all about?
Since I don't know, I'll just say that perhaps you need to remain detached from a fellow - (no poontang pie) - until your guy has all of his ex issues resolved. Of course, if you didn't know about them, that implies a measure of dishonesty from the jump, does it not?

Given the limited detail, that's the best i can come up with.

 

[PuertoRican_Lover]

Your post leaves me with a lot of questions...why did he didn't just take a taxi home and avoid all this drama...was he tryng to tell you something directly or indirectly?? Anyway the upshot of your situation is he has you already...and I can't see how you say you guys are afraid of comittment due to your past, yet you are waking up in the morning together???? Sounds like the cart is before the horse - strange situation. Does he owe you any loyalty, why? If this is your worry.

I'll give it to you straight - a man owes nothing to any woman except his wife!! If he is a man, this is his thinking!!! You are just the next in line, and he is the next in your line. Just accept this reality and their is no need to fret! By your own admission, what does he really owe you???

 

[Slickster]

I'd say something is fishy.

If there was nothing going on why was he so distraught?

Regardless it doesn't sound like this guy is going to give it to you straight anyway.

Plain and simple. Contact with his ex means they have unfinished business.

I'd be extra cautious about this one.

 

[Señor Fingers]

Hey ix,

I will cut straight to your direct question and move on from there...

Originally posted by iqqi
should i be upset?

Its funny you say this because one of my bestest buds is dealing with a similar problem and asked me the same exact question. In fact he has asked me this question many times over the last few months.."Should I be worried?" or "Should I be pissed off?"

I have recently started laughing at him because my answer never changes..

HELLLLZ NO!

Why should your peace of mind be so dependant on the state of another person? I understand that in matters of the heart, one cant be cold and stoic...BUT why play into the unnecessary drama?

I say go the unfazed route. Distance yourself as far as you can from the psychotic image of the Ex. Be cool even if your fires are raging inside.

This does two things.

1. It shows if he is just pushing buttons in order to get a reaction out of you. (Drama queen --> NEXT!)

2. It is a good way to see if he has some sort of unhealthy fixation with psycho b!tches. Think about it. If you handle this whole thing with finess and he loses interest or tries to escalate the conflict, then your red flags should be waving like mad. (Abusive Enabler --> NEXT!)

Personally, I like to give people the benefit of the doubt in any given scenario, especially someone I am intimate with.

I mean, who knows? Mebbe holmes is bein straight up with ya and the ex really is a freak of nature.

If this is the case, then he should be man enough to eliminate such negativity from his life. You gotta really look at this situation from a detached point of view.

Is the ex a recurring issue for you guys?

Does the chapter still seem very much open?

Be objective and honest with yourself.

Hopefully this will be the closing chapter and this little fling of yours will flourish into something wonderful.

However, if the drama proceeds, this is your cue to let him know that you are gonzo unless he can man up and handle his business. No getting upset. No worries. Simply two adults deciding what they want from a relationship.

Of course if you are only in this for the emotional upheaval followed by hours of intense make-up sex, then hey...more power to ya!

But the point is that you need to decide what it is you want out of this...something I get the feeling you have yet to do.

My last piece of advice...

Dont get too attached to this relationship. It is already built on a shaky foundation of rebounds, mistrust and personal baggage. Enjoy each other for however long this lasts but dont let your attachment blind you to the alarms of your gut intuition!

Think of the times you have ignored this feeling in the past and what it has cost you!

Need I say more?

FINGZ ------> out

 

[Zossima]

Originally posted by iqqi
it's like it is very intimate- but we both have these walls up still.

plus he just KNOWS i am upset. it is like he KNOWS i should be.

should i be?

Say no more................ you're sleeping with a guy but you have these "walls" between you. Your relationship is purely physical but you both don't know it yet.

You should be upset....... With yourself.

 

[iqqi]

Originally posted by Big Pappy

1. Was there any mention of exclusive dating?

actually when both first started seeing each other, neither one of us planned on anything especially not a commitment. but that didn't mean sex either. we were both curious about each other, so it was more like lets get to know each other and see what happens. we dated for like a month before it got to a sexual level, hanging out constantly, very pleasantly surprised by each other and common interests we share.
we both are very good at hiding our feelings under an air of indifference, but there were alot of things he is doing that makes it obvious that he really digs me. on the flip side there are things he doesn't do that make me wonder.

Originally posted by Big Pappy
2. How do you KNOW they didn't have each other's numbers? Is it a hunch or something he said?

something he said, as well as seems pretty obvious to me.

Originally posted by Big Pappy
3. This reference to "You need to be sitting down to hear this" comment sort of hangs out there like an erection that's just a bit too large.

exactly.
my friend put it another way that is really under my skin. she said that he was sooo emotional from his ex, that he HAD to tell SOMEONE, and didn't even stop to think that that someone should not be the chic he is seeing. basically if his ex is the one who is tripping over him, then why did HE lose his cool???

Originally posted by Big Pappy
If he has a history of cheating that's one thing. If he has a reputation for being a ladies man, that;s something else.

he has been eyeing me for like a year. because of his obviousness, and a passing late night come-on a night back in october of 02, i had been dissing him for a year. come to find out, he was with this ex during this time! i guess they even got in a huge fight about me once. so i don't know if he is a womanizer (as i had him pegged), or if it was an infatuation with ME. or if he is just disrespectful to his women. but this is my biggest issue with him specifically. is he a womanizer? i need to see. it makes a big difference in how i react to him, and how close i get to him.

Originally posted by Big Pappy

Since I don't know, I'll just say that perhaps you need to remain detached from a fellow - (no poontang pie) - until your guy has all of his ex issues resolved. Of course, if you didn't know about them, that implies a measure of dishonesty from the jump, does it not?

pappy, this seems to be what i keep coming up with. stop sleeping with him until he gets it together for himself. ahhhh. i am very picky and have very high standards in the men that become my lovers, but dammit, i am a very sexual person and this is so HARD! i wish i didn't have morals....(JK)

Originally posted by PuertoRican_Lover
you are waking up in the morning together???? Sounds like the cart is before the horse - strange situation. Does he owe you any loyalty, why?

you're very right. the cart is before the wagon. whiiich considering the situation (we just got OUT of relationships), isn't that bad in my mind. but nevertheless, i have high expectations, and i am demanding especially when it comes to respect. i don't sleep around, am actually prudish at the outset. so while, yes, there is no commitment, to me that is just a word anyways. i am not some chic he picked up one night, i am nobody's F-buddy. we are both cautious about commitment (which i think is good, means that we take that sh!t seriously), but that doesn't mean he can just fvck around. that is disrespectful. not cool. so that is what level of loyalty i am expecting right now.
and just to clear things up, we are actually friends. we really truly enjoy and like each other. we hang out and go out way more than we sleep together. everyone knows we are together, even if it hasn't been specified out loud HOW exactly. i think that matters in these kind of scenarios?

Originally posted by Señor Fingers
I say go the unfazed route. Distance yourself as far as you can from the psychotic image of the Ex. Be cool even if your fires are raging inside.

This does two things.

1. It shows if he is just pushing buttons in order to get a reaction out of you. (Drama queen --> NEXT!)

2. It is a good way to see if he has some sort of unhealthy fixation with psycho b!tches. Think about it. If you handle this whole thing with finess and he loses interest or tries to escalate the conflict, then your red flags should be waving like mad. (Abusive Enabler --> NEXT!)

Personally, I like to give people the benefit of the doubt in any given scenario, especially someone I am intimate with.

thanks fingz, we are on the same page. i think it is 1 and 2, honestly. neither one of us show emotion, it is kind of like a war of the wills. so i think that he wants more of a reaction out of me, and i admit i crave the same. as for number 2, if you remember my experiment thread, i mentioned that it seemed like he liked being dissed and played with before i actually got to know him. i do wonder. since it takes alot for him to show HIS emotions, i wonder if the only way he realizes they are there is if someone manipulates them, negatively. hmmm...

i also give a heaping dose of benefit (of the doubt). is usually my downfall, but i believe one day it will pay off.


you guys are very helpful here. thanks newman, and slick, for sounding in. you are getting what i am getting. some fishy sh!t going on.

zossima, read above what i said about the friendship. that is so far the best thing about our relationship. i am sure things would be a little easier and clearer if it wasn't for bad timing.

i think my next step, is to just put it out there fast and to the point. was thinking something like saying:
"what happened the other day isn't really cool with me. you were just with me that morning, and the idea of you going on a date with your ex hours later kind of makes me feel strange. it felt kind of sneaky the way you went about it. next time why don't you give some heads up, so i don't feel so disrespected or played. "

then leave it at that. i really wouldn't want discussion, just for him to hear me out, and sit on it.

 

[PuertoRican_Lover]

I'm still confused about his erratic behavior and distraught condition on your arrival, but the circumstances you described doesn't call for such drama...is he on drugs...or some kind of trouble? Is he a paranoid schizophrenic? I'm serious! He doesn't call you all day then calls you at 10pm, and acts as if the mafia is after him, only to tell you that he had a date with his ex (what happen to the birthday party?) and he was waiting around for over an hour, and rambles something about a note to he left?? And then he refers to 'they' in the plural form then says 'they' is referring to his ex, a 'singular' form. Huh? Its all strange! No one is going to wait an hour in a car - after 10 minutes, I'm going batty, let alone an hour - why did he wait so long to call you?

Did she (his ex) threatened him and tell him that she was going to expose his cheating ways to you and others, and he wanted to preempt her actions and feign honesty by telling you the situation before she reached you on her own. Otherwise, why didn't he tell you he was meeting her beforehand and instead get you involved in all this paranoid drama?

 

[ManOMan]

" they don't have each other's numbers. this is part of how he makes her seem psycho. says he had it changed a few times. she gets a hold of him randomly. (showing up at his place, leaving notes, or she'll happen to be driving next to him on the street, ect. ect.)"


LOL

Do you REALLY believe they get a hold of each other and decide to meet later from Notes, random encounters, meeting each other by driving side by side?

EVERYONE I know likes to believe they are special and very picky, seriously what person is going to say "Im not that picky! I date anyone that shows me a hint of interest!"

Now if you are soooo picky, iqqi, what is it about this guy, that no other guy can compete with?

 

[Pookalicious]

women!

 

[iqqi]

Originally posted by PuertoRican_Lover
I'm still confused about his erratic behavior and distraught condition on your arrival, but the circumstances you described doesn't call for such drama...is he on drugs...or some kind of trouble? Is he a paranoid schizophrenic? I'm serious! He doesn't call you all day then calls you at 10pm, and acts as if the mafia is after him, only to tell you that he had a date with his ex (what happen to the birthday party?) and he was waiting around for over an hour, and rambles something about a note to he left?? And then he refers to 'they' in the plural form then says 'they' is referring to his ex, a 'singular' form. Huh? Its all strange! No one is going to wait an hour in a car - after 10 minutes, I'm going batty, let alone an hour - why did he wait so long to call you?

hahahhaa, pure comedy here, and so true. but it wasn't as crazy as you make it out to be. he was just really distraught at how she left him like that for so long, as well as not wanting to say who "they" was. he said "they" because otherwise he would've had to say "she". but, this was funny!

Originally posted by PuertoRican_Lover
Did she (his ex) threatened him and tell him that she was going to expose his cheating ways to you and others, and he wanted to preempt her actions and feign honesty by telling you the situation before she reached you on her own. Otherwise, why didn't he tell you he was meeting her beforehand and instead get you involved in all this paranoid drama?

good point. and this is why i wonder if i should be mad. because he went about it very sneaky and shady like. right? i have no issue with him meeting his ex to settle things and be friends before she leaves town, but by him being sneaky it makes it seem like it was more to it. like maybe a reconcilation attempt? or one last "hit" goodbye? i could be paranoid, but only because he made it seem shady by hiding it, and then his delivery of it.
plus he makes it seem like she is nuts and won't let go, yet this got him so upset. i dunno. if you guys were in his shoes, what would you have done? would you meet your crazy ex (that you DID really love at one point) if she was hounding you, stalking you, and saying that she was leaving town for good that week? i probaly would, just to leave it at good terms.
and would you be extremely upset if they left you in the car for an hour? i would. but i don't know if i'd be as depressed as he came across. more like "i always knew s/he was a biotch, this is WHY we aren't together." but he seemed so fixated and upset. what about yall? is his overreaction a sign that he is lying about just WHO is not letting go?

Originally posted by ManOMan
Do you REALLY believe they get a hold of each other and decide to meet later from Notes, random encounters, meeting each other by driving side by side?

i know for a fact she doesn't have his number. and from a conversation (in person) they had with me there, i know he doesn't have hers.

he makes it seem like she is really crazy, atleast for him. if it sheds any light, he was her first, and i know that i personally was a little psychotic over my first. so i dunno. it's just weird how emotional he was. then again i think that there relationship ended not too long ago, as in 3-4 months ago. (atleast ended for good, i think it had really been over long before that). so maybe it WOULD be emotional. i am trying to give the benefit of the doubt here.

Originally posted by ManOMan
EVERYONE I know likes to believe they are special and very picky, seriously what person is going to say "Im not that picky! I date anyone that shows me a hint of interest!"
Now if you are soooo picky, iqqi, what is it about this guy, that no other guy can compete with?

for him specifically? he was very persistent. made me think that he knew what he wanted. a man who knows what he wants is very sexy. and if you are reading what i am writing you will see that we have become friends. which i don't do lightly, either.

if you still don't believe me, it's cool. but i will say that oftentimes years go by without me seriously dating anyone, to the point where some of my friends question whether or not i am a closet lesbian, hahahahaha! the girl i grew up with since i was 4 actually told me that she wouldn't be mad or anything if i was, i could tell her. ahahahhhahhaha!!!

thanks thus far. i think i know the right way to deal with this. i can't let it slide and have him thinking it was cool what happened. but i don't want to trip out over something that could have been meant innocently, and understandably. keep it simple, but keep it true.

 

[iqqi]

update

so he told me more about what happened when he went out with his ex for dinner that day.

i guess she tripped out over the fact that he wanted to be home by 10pmish.
red flag #1: what the hell did she have in mind for after 10? and would he have gone along with it if she hadn't have left him in the car? huge issues here. because instincts say yes. maybe that is why he was so upset that it didn't work out that way?

and there was a huge scene at the restaurant, with her crying, them yelling back and forth, her pulling on his arm not to leave, him in the bathroom talking to himself. then laughing because everyone was looking. kinda seemed like this was normal for them.
red flag #2: drama king and queen? i'm feeling like he is one of those types that need drama and tears and screaming to feel anything, or atleast to believe he is feeling something. not only that, but i would now be embarrassed to be seen with him by anyone that witnessed that scene between him and her. you can't represent me well if you aren't even representing yourself well. i'm not a manowar! if he needs drama, he won't get it here! unless it is the final act.

i'm not feeling this cat like i was. at all. huge issues in my mind.

i think that he may need to really be alone and figre himself out, and their relationship out. before he can really be what i could need in my life.

so i told him what i said i would. very briefly, i told him that i wasn't happy about those events, it made me feel not too cool that he was with me and then on a date with her a few hours later. and that next time he wants to meet up with her, to give me some advance knowledge so i don't feel so played.

he took it well. how else could he, i was very matter of fact. may have disappointed him with my mature, non drama inducing way of addressing the situation. we'll see.

but my alerts are on red. if i see anything else strange then i am out.

thanks to everyone who has been helping me see this sh!t clear. i tend to give people chances they aren't really deserving of.

 

[Jay Fiedler]

HI Iggi (this is echo1212). My brief take on things.

One, hes a cheat and a liar, plus it sounds like he has some emotional stability problems, so before you get yourself too wrapped up in this, you might want to end things or at least cool them way down. You have already said that he tried hitting on you WHILE he had a gf 2 years agao-bad sign-once a cheat-always a cheat.

Also, he lied about seeing the ex to you, lied about dinner with her, and imo is lieing through his teeth about her being the one who is AFTER him and acting psycho. Think about it. If you were over your ex and didnt care what he/she did, would you get so emotionally distraught that you cant speak clearly or make any sense? Would he lie to you about even having dinner with her if he didnt care about her? WOuld you be upset and crying over it? No. Imo he is the one who is NOT over her, and I believe you mentioned that she is leaving for good? If so this dinner could have been a lst ditch effort by him to rekindle things and keep her here. She said no-and he went psycho. Trust me on this!! No one will get that upset if they didnt care! Hes hiding something-and that more than likely is the fact he isnt over her...at all. None of this adds up..hes lieing.

Plus, if he realllllyyyyy liked you and didnt want anything to do with her, you would have been the LAST person he would have called to pick him up and then spill his guts to..he wouldnt have wanted to endanger things with you. But he was soooo emotionally distraught that he didnt care who he talked to..as long as it was someone he could cry with. You need to look at his actions, not his words. If its one thing i have learned in relationships, people-and I mean anyone--will lie-especially to protect themselves. ANd he has a proven track record now of lieing, to you and to others. Why put yourself throguh this drama? I know... and Ive been there myself, that its easy to talk about getting out of situations like this, but when your in them, its much harder because your heart is involved. But if this many red flags are already showing up, Im afraid in the long run thing will most likely only get worse.

 

[iqqi]

Originally posted by Jay Fiedler
HI Iggi (this is echo1212).

hey jay, aka echo! glad you stayed. it is iQQi, by the way.

Originally posted by Jay Fiedler

*hes a cheat and a liar
*he has some emotional stability problems
*he lied about seeing the ex to you
*lied about dinner with her

these things definately seem accurate.
i forgot to mention the girl called his job the next day, pretended like nothing happened, and was all excited, saying that she now has her first apartment, all hers, and she is staying in town. surprise surprise.

and some crazy sh!t went down last night. i think i have him figured out. i think that the ex girl was young and stupid, and very supplicating to him. i think she chased him, threw hysterics at him, was clingy, and insecure. so now he expects that. he is unnerved that i don't chase, that i am not clingy or insecure, and that i am calm and rational.

i also think that he has severe emotional stability problems, as well as deep hidden insecurities. i think this because of his unwillingness to show emotion, his portrayal of extreme confidence, and the sh!t that happened last night.



the sh!t that happened last night:
told him i was going to the club with some of my boys. he came up there alone (like usual-he always comes up there because i am there). i introduced him to my friends. he then proceeded to ignore me, be best friends with every other girl at the club (he knows a lot of people because he is a performer), stand on the other side of the club, and to finish it off, danced with some other chic for like 25 minutes.

then after i watched all of this, feeling confused, sad, hurt, and shocked that he would be so dumb, decided that he must not care if it was over.
so i danced with my friends. then all of a sudden he was trying to get my attention, touch me as i passed, finally just brooding on the wall and staring as i danced with one of my guy friends who is quite the dancer (a stripper, hee hee).
he left at one point, but came right back. then he left again, like 20 minutes early.

when i got to my car at the end of the night he had left a very nonchalant message, saying that he didn't see me before he left, so goodbye, talk to you later. like nothing happened.

he came to the club it seems with the intentions of trying to make me jealous.

i don't know! i was hoping that communication would keep sh!t from being like this, so immature and retarded. it is hard for me to accept that i can't fix this. because i am sleeping with him, i don't want it to end over some dumb sh!t. it's like, what a fcuking waste. i am just really sad about it, and wishing that there was some solution to this impending disaster.

 

[Jay Fiedler]

Wow iqqi, sounds like some thing I went through in high school. For a guy to be doing these kinds of head games (intentional and unintentional) is not a good sign so early in a relationship. Usually people are on their very best behavior so early on, so for this stuff to be starting already can only lead to things getting much, much worse. I mean to show up at a club alone and then proceed to pull the jealousy game with you right after all that happened with his ex...just seems really strange to me. He should have been kissing your arse or at least be trying to smooth things over, and instead hes pulling that lame ****.

Sounds like the guy has the mentality of a 14 year old...which would make sense about being with his ex and her maturity level. If I were you I would very politely tell him you're looking for a mature, quality, non drama filled relationship, and that someday if he ever gets his things in order for him to give you a call. But for now i would run far, far away asap.