She says she's looking for only friendship...

[ARrocket]

I met this girl at a workshop at my university this weekend...we had a little flirting going on, nothing major. I wasn't able to talk to her at the end and get her number, but I added her on Facebook. Sent her a message today saying that it was nice meeting her, and asking her out to coffee on Thursday. She replies that Thursday was pretty packed for her. So I respond by saying that I'm free most afternoons during the week, and for her to let me know when she's free next week to "get together for some wonderfully interesting conversation"

So she says "that sounds like fun! But you should know that I'm not looking for a relationship or anything, but friendship is great!"

I proceed as if she had just said that it would be fun, and exchange numbers with her. But...is this worth pursuing? I mean on her profile it says that she's looking for a relationship, so was I just shot down?

 

[Ice882]

friendship...from you.

 

[Igetit!]

I met this girl at a workshop at my university this weekend...we had a little flirting going on, nothing major. I wasn't able to talk to her at the end and get her number, but I added her on Facebook. Sent her a message today saying that it was nice meeting her, and asking her out to coffee on Thursday. She replies that Thursday was pretty packed for her. So I respond by saying that I'm free most afternoons during the week, and for her to let me know when she's free next week to "get together for some wonderfully interesting conversation"

You see the part I put in bold? That was a mistake man,a HUGE mistake. You unintentionally told her basically that you have nothing going on in your life,almost as if you're just sitting around waiting for something or someone interesting to come along.


You would have sounded more interesting if you had said something like,"Well I'll be doing (whatever) for most of the day,but I should be free after around...4 or 5 o'clock".


That would have shown her that you do have a life with things to do,but you're willing to "find time" to sqeeze her in there somewhere.


You came off as being too available.

So she says "that sounds like fun! But you should know that I'm not looking for a relationship or anything, but friendship is great!"

Allow me to translate her reply....


When she said she wasn't looking for "a relationship or anything" what she meant was she wasn't looking for a relationship or anything....WITH YOU.

I'm assuming you can take straight,hard cold,uncoated truth,so here it is...

Her response to you was the result of your weak approach. There was no attraction in it. You weren't being manly enough,you were too "tame" in the way you approached her. You weren't being masculine with her,you were being "polite".


You can't do that with a girl. You need to just come straight at her with your interest. Also,you failed to create attraction in her.

She probably would have been more interested in you if you had offended her than with the approached you used.

At least she would have "felt" something.

I proceed as if she had just said that it would be fun, and exchange numbers with her. But...is this worth pursuing?

It what worth pursuing? A friendship? With a "hot" girl?

Well,if you want to hang out with her and listen to her tell you about guys she's fooling around with,then I guess pursuing her wouldn't be a bad idea.

If you mean something romantic,you might want to move on.

I mean on her profile it says that she's looking for a relationship,

She is looking for one,just not with you.
If you had been more aggressive in the way you showed your interest,I doubt she would have threw the "friends" line at you.

so was I just shot down?

Yes,you were shot down.

 

[pipe007]

I used to worry about how to tell if a girl is into me or not
is she playing games?
am I in the friend zone?
does she like me?

there is always ONLY 1 way to find out: you asked her out,,,,, if she agrees,,,, then you could do something to get out of the friend zone..

if she is busy... you are done
if she says she calls you back... you are done
any excuse but... yes i wanna see you.... then you are done..

its not that complicated bro!!

stop overanalyzing this ...you should know better

 

[Iceberg]

I proceed as if she had just said that it would be fun, and exchange numbers with her. But...is this worth pursuing? I mean on her profile it says that she's looking for a relationship, so was I just shot down?

Is what worth pursuing? Sounds like she just told you what she thinks of you...

Also, dont ask girls out over facebook. That's super gay.

 

[CarlitosWay]

You see the part I put in bold? That was a mistake man,a HUGE mistake. You unintentionally told her basically that you have nothing going on in your life,almost as if you're just sitting around waiting for something or someone interesting to come along.


You would have sounded more interesting if you had said something like,"Well I'll be doing (whatever) for most of the day,but I should be free after around...4 or 5 o'clock".


That would have shown her that you do have a life with things to do,but you're willing to "find time" to sqeeze her in there somewhere.


You came off as being too available.

Allow me to translate her reply....


When she said she wasn't looking for "a relationship or anything" what she meant was she wasn't looking for a relationship or anything....WITH YOU.

I'm assuming you can take straight,hard cold,uncoated truth,so here it is...

Her response to you was the result of your weak approach. There was no attraction in it. You weren't being manly enough,you were too "tame" in the way you approached her. You weren't being masculine with her,you were being "polite".


You can't do that with a girl. You need to just come straight at her with your interest. Also,you failed to create attraction in her.

She probably would have been more interested in you if you had offended her than with the approached you used.

At least she would have "felt" something.


It what worth pursuing? A friendship? With a "hot" girl?

Well,if you want to hang out with her and listen to her tell you about guys she's fooling around with,then I guess pursuing her wouldn't be a bad idea.

If you mean something romantic,you might want to move on.

She is looking for one,just not with you.
If you had been more aggressive in the way you showed your interest,I doubt she would have threw the "friends" line at you.

Yes,you were shot down.

ffs! igetit must rep you again, bastard....

anyways if your AFC ass can handle it you can at least befriend her and network with her and get to know more potential women to hook up with. Cute girls, attract more cute girls! You can get invites to awesome parties/hang out spots etc. etc.... Just don't become her emotional tampon or some ****...you ****ed up but at least now you can take this opportunity to turn yourself into that cool bad ass friend who she'll want to introduce to her good friends and so on.

Go on as if this **** didn't bother you...you made some mistakes yet live and learn brother.

 

[tafakna]

So she says "that sounds like fun! But you should know that I'm not looking for a relationship or anything, but friendship is great!"

You're pursuing her and she's trying to take some pressure off.

IT'S NO BIG DEAL.

You can take the 'I've been friendzoned' way out and go NC, and spend your next months having the exact same problems over and over again (like so many people here).

But in reality all she is trying to do is no feeling pressured, not wanting the meeting to sound like a date.

Next time this happens you gotta say on the spot 'of course, I'm not in the mood for anything serious either'...

 

[bukowski_merit]

Nice response Igetit! I was seriously about to post almost the exact same responses.... Perfectly put!

You're pursuing her and she's trying to take some pressure off.

IT'S NO BIG DEAL.

I disagree! What she did to him is an "early frame announcement" to announce he lack of interest in him in a sexual way... This is not done to take the pressure off her because she likes him or doesn't want to seem like a slut... That's BS! If a woman has high interest in a guy - she will not make such an announcement.

I SERIOUSLY CANNOT REMEMBER THE LAST TIME I HEARD A WOMAN MAKE A COMMENT LIKE THAT. But i can tell you it only happened in my pure AFC days. I'd develop a little crush on someone... it would become obvious to her... I'd ask her to the mall or something... And they'd ALWAYS have some kind of announcement to make like that...

If she thinks you have high quality sperm - she won't risk losing you by making such a comment.... High Quality Sperm = Someone who's not available every night this week!

If he was going to continue - he SHOULD HAVE addressed it. Maybe turned it around on her and made it seem like she must be super obsessed with finding a guy to make comments like that.... But by saying NOTHING about her announcement - he accepted it.

 

[horaholic]

I've banged chicks that have said that. You can too. She may mean it, but that doesnt mean you cant turn her around.

 

[nismo-4]

OP, read your thread title.

That means that she doesn't see you as a potential boyfriend. I was about to make a long response, but I hope you listented to Pastor Igetit!

BTW Igetit!, I need to spread sum rep around before I can rep this post like it needs to be repped!

You made yourself too available and was willing to drop everything to date her. Bad move bro. That's unattractive beyond recognition. Putting a girl first who isn't married to you, oh hell no!

You have been found guilty of being too available and fearing your own testosterone. The fine is a permanent trip to North Friendzone, Texas. Blue ball come with this trip. Learning from this mistake by being less polite (weak), busting her balls, and being witty, BTW stop putting females on a goddamn pedestal! You can be alleviated from the future fine of these crimes if you move on after understanding what you did. Read my sig. Apply it.

Case closed. Court is adjourned.

 

[tafakna]

I disagree! What she did to him is an "early frame announcement" to announce he lack of interest in him in a sexual way... This is not done to take the pressure off her because she likes him or doesn't want to seem like a slut... That's BS! If a woman has high interest in a guy - she will not make such an announcement.

I SERIOUSLY CANNOT REMEMBER THE LAST TIME I HEARD A WOMAN MAKE A COMMENT LIKE THAT. But i can tell you it only happened in my pure AFC days. I'd develop a little crush on someone... it would become obvious to her... I'd ask her to the mall or something... And they'd ALWAYS have some kind of announcement to make like that...

Men rely on the visual cortex to make a fast assessment on what girl they want to bang. Women rely on a memory trail of all that they've been through to reach the same conclusion. The pseudo-Darwian 'looking for a good sperm' makes no sense whatsoever in the short-run.

Saying that one 'is free most afternoons' is plain awful and way counterproductive but that should never mean giving up at the first obstacle.

So ideally she would not have said that she just wants to be friends, but I don't think there's much value in the binary advice Give Up / Go NC that permeates most of the threads here. Becoming a constant quitter is the ultimate form of AFC IMHO.

The guy is in a situation in which he should have no expectations, he would have nothing to lose by trying to play his hand better than he started. Go out, change her impression, act like having no interest, don't cling, don't say anything romantic, and just act aloof... It's a very reversible situation.

Been there, done that.

 

[hydroheathen]

dude stop being a *****

 

[bukowski_merit]

The pseudo-Darwian 'looking for a good sperm' makes no sense whatsoever in the short-run.

I wouldn't call Evolutionary Psychology Pseudo-"anything"! Unless you're an evolution disbeliever (or a religious nut). In the "short run" a woman is MORE LIKELY to chase an Alpha (and settle down with someone more beta). If you care to read up on this stuff... Check out for free: http://homepage.psy.utexas.edu/homepage/group/busslab/ (i just realized how hot some of the girls who study with this guy are! to him lol)

Saying that one 'is free most afternoons' is plain awful and way counterproductive but that should never mean giving up at the first obstacle.

It certainly wouldn't stop me! But i wouldn't have accepted it in the first place. I definitely would have made some kind of C+F comment to that (or just call her BS). His frame is all wrong, and it's counterproductive for him to continue to pursue. He learned from this that you should never present yourself as that available. That's a quality lesson if you ask me!

Now, if he were to want to try this out with her just to get more experience and maybe learn a few more lessons - then fine. But, that's not a frame guys should be going on "dates" in. Especially guys who don't even know a basic rule such as: don't be too available.

That's part of the problem with guys on here who say things like "just be a man" or "just go for her and see what happens." ... Most guys on here looking for advice - are not coming from a healthy frame where that can happen. And most guys will only give the theory on here so many chances before giving up on it (if it doesn't work).

Can this guy go out with this girl and end up sleeping with her??? Sure, anything is possible. The cards are already stacked against him though... Unless he's just looking for a FEMALE FRIEND (to be a pivot perhaps) then he has a HUGE chance of being disappointing.

If he could approach every interaction with no expectations - then all this would be so much easier. But, that's not a frame that most guys can live in.

So ideally she would not have said that she just wants to be friends, but I don't think there's much value in the binary advice Give Up / Go NC that permeates most of the threads here. Becoming a constant quitter is the ultimate form of AFC IMHO.

Going NC makes no sense here because she has no emotional tie to him. He should next the girl though.... Quitting? Who cares! There's an ocean of women out there to swim in! We're not telling him to quit on women; simply to quit on this one and find someone with higher interest. Advising a guy to set a frame with a woman and if she goes outside of it - to next her - is not AFC!

Yeah, women give token resistance and have up Anti-slut shields. BUT, in the case of this particular girl - it sounds more like she has very low interest in him.

The guy is in a situation in which he should have no expectations, he would have nothing to lose by trying to play his hand better than he started. Go out, change her impression, act like having no interest, don't cling, don't say anything romantic, and just act aloof... It's a very reversible situation.

Nothing to lose? His time, his energy, his respect, etc are all at stake.... Why not go out and game other women on that night??? That's much more productive.

Again, you're presenting these bullet points like "don't cling" and "act aloof" as if people can just change instantly...

VERY REVERSIBLE for who? For him? A guy who makes at least 6 mistakes in his interaction very early with a woman?

- He failed to establish authentic rapport with her. (that's what "nothing major" tells me)
- He took the time to look her up on facebook. (a girl he barely knows)
- He sent her a message on facebook asking her on a date. (instead of for her number)
- He tells her he's available EVERY NIGHT of the week!
- He asks her out for coffee and "wonderfully interesting conversation" (aka: he's trying to sell himself via a typical date.)
- Then finally - he accepts to meet her on her terms (friendship)

6 mistakes in a very limited time period and you think he should just venture on? He's being no challenge to her!

He needs to start over new with other women and not make these same mistakes....

It would actually be HORRIBLE if this board didn't exist and he went on the date with her, and somehow turned it around.... Why? He would believe then that the way he interacted with her WORKED and continue to keep gaming in this way...

 

[tafakna]

I wouldn't call Evolutionary Psychology Pseudo-"anything"! Unless you're an evolution disbeliever (or a religious nut).

Actually I think that ignoring Psychology is just as dumb as believing that humans (or women for that matter) are brainless sperm seeking beings enslaved by their limbic system.

Humans interactions are a lot more complex than Bonobo Monkeys 'sex solves everything', or Brown Antechinus 'f**k until you die' mottos. There's nothing Evolutionary about seeing human beings as incapable of making their own decisions (which I think you agree).

So I, and most modern psychologists lean more towards the idea that women take their time to really choose a mate.

By experience, I'd say that over 70% of the questions here are more concerned with 'trying to make things work' as opposed to people looking for a threesome over Spring Break (not that there's anything wrong with that, I'm a big fan of casual sex).

Nothing to lose? His time, his energy, his respect, etc are all at stake.... Why not go out and game other women on that night??? That's much more productive.

VERY REVERSIBLE for who? For him? A guy who makes at least 6 mistakes in his interaction very early with a woman?

He will just lose more energy/time/respect if he keeps trying to go for other women using the same flawed tactics (just like you've said). That would be hardly more productive.

 

[bukowski_merit]

Actually I think that ignoring Psychology is just as dumb as believing that humans (or women for that matter) are brainless sperm seeking beings enslaved by their limbic system.

Attraction, happens on a primal level (more so for women). We aren't brainless, but we are slaves to the continued survival of our species. We really serve no other purpose.

Humans interactions are a lot more complex than Bonobo Monkeys 'sex solves everything', or Brown Antechinus 'f**k until you die' mottos. There's nothing Evolutionary about seeing human beings as incapable of making their own decisions (which I think you agree).

I'm not sure how we're getting into this conversation, but it's not that humans are incapable of making their own decisions - it's that they're incapable of deciding "logically" who they're attracted to (again, this is more so with women than men; not that we always make the most rational decisions on who to be attracted to (aka: freaks)).

So I, and most modern psychologists lean more towards the idea that women take their time to really choose a mate.

I don't agree with this statement. Women are most attracted to badboys and alpha males when they're most likely to get pregnant (and are mostly likely to react off of impulse). They're most attracted to beta's and nice guys when they're not likely to get pregnant (and are most likely to really justify it first - aka: accept his "nice guy" courtship).

By experience, I'd say that over 70% of the questions here are more concerned with 'trying to make things work' as opposed to people looking for a threesome over Spring Break (not that there's anything wrong with that, I'm a big fan of casual sex).

Of course! This is hardly a pick-up board. I'd classify it as a relationship board to a certain degree. Most people on here are looking to fix their relationship, or get into a relationship.... I myself, do not have casual sex anymore (or at least do not intend to).

He will just lose more energy/time/respect if he keeps trying to go for other women using the same flawed tactics (just like you've said). That would be hardly more productive.

That is why he must learn from this experience and listen to what people are saying he did wrong. Then go out and re-apply it to more women and see what differences he gets.

It only takes 2-3 dates for guys on here to start displaying traits of one-itis (even without sex). That's the possible consequence of continuing on. And guys telling him to just keep at it - that gives him justification to continue to pursue what is in a large part an impossible battle.

 

[tafakna]

Attraction, happens on a primal level (more so for women). We aren't brainless, but we are slaves to the continued survival of our species. We really serve no other purpose.

There are people that spend their (sorry) lives and never have sex. There are people that are attracted to the same gender. There are people that surround themselves behind emotional walls and never get involved. There are people that fall in love everyday. There are people overly receptive to dopamine, while others are affected mostly by testosterone. You can't try to understand things by a single overly simplistic idea.

If attraction happens on the primal level then the corollary is that changing one's actions, tactics and behaviors will not help; and you certainly don't believe that. You have no space for psychology if you believe that attaction is purely limbic.

Not even scientists that overdrink from Darwin/Dawkins cool-aid would believe that....

I'm not sure how we're getting into this conversation, but it's not that humans are incapable of making their own decisions - it's that they're incapable of deciding "logically" who they're attracted to (again, this is more so with women than men; not that we always make the most rational decisions on who to be attracted to (aka: freaks)).

What women do you pursue? The clingy, over available, puppy-looking girl that is calling you 24/7; or the one that evades all your attempts to get them?

Have you never had a girl pursue you? Don't you think she had the same thoughts on her mind (we're right for each other, he's blind not to see it, he's following his instincts and not being rational)?

Men are more logical???? Everyday I read more and more posts about guys on the Forum that fell for the girl they've seen at the bus stop, for girls that are not even aware they exist, or that want to get back with girls that slept around behind their backs.

Despite a few obvious differenteces; I don't buy that men and women are completely different.

Of course! This is hardly a pick-up board. I'd classify it as a relationship board to a certain degree. Most people on here are looking to fix their relationship, or get into a relationship.... I myself, do not have casual sex anymore (or at least do not intend to).

Thanks, that was exactly my point. People are looking for relationships here, or try to get a particular girl, therefore focusing the advice solely on 'move on, you lost this one' doesn't do much help.

It only takes 2-3 dates for guys on here to start displaying traits of one-itis (even without sex). That's the possible consequence of continuing on. And guys telling him to just keep at it - that gives him justification to continue to pursue what is in a large part an impossible battle.

I've never said to keep doing the same thing. Just to make clear the guy made plenty of mistakes.

I've just said that I don't share the same believe that trying to change his behavior with this girl (and seeing the change in her acceptance) would be a bad thing.

The guy has only briefly met the girl, for all I care the 'I'm not looking for a relationship' might change dramatically if he played his cards right on a face-to-face setting.

Granted that he probably will screw up again (it takes time to change), but that is just as true as when he tries to game other girls.

So my advice remains trying to pursue (and learn) from this girl, and keep trying other girls at the same time.

No 10 page post on SOSUAVE beats having some ground rules and trying to apply them in real life.

As for the rest, I think we have to agree to disagree.

Anyway I've enjoyed the exchange here...

 

[detroitnative]

I have no idea what either of you are talking about, but to the OP:

I've been where you are, and I'd say forget about this girl. The chances that you turn this around are not good. I mean, if you could have us in your ear telling you what to do each step of the way on your "date" - i think you'd be fine. But, that's not possible, and I'd bet money that she flakes on you anyway!

I think you need to read the DJ bible, perhaps the book of Pook, and if you already have - reread it and absorb the information this time! As others have pointed out - you made a ton of errors. It's good that you're out there being social, but that's only a small part of the process.

 

[bukowski_merit]

There are people that spend their (sorry) lives and never have sex. There are people that are attracted to the same gender. There are people that surround themselves behind emotional walls and never get involved. There are people that fall in love everyday. There are people overly receptive to dopamine, while others are affected mostly by testosterone. You can't try to understand things by a single overly simplistic idea.

Those people are but a small percentage of the population (Gays make up about 7.7% of the population; adult (21+) virgins number a measly 4%.) I know David Buss (the guy i linked to earlier) has done MANY studies on gays, which still show stimulation still exist on a primal level.

If attraction happens on the primal level then the corollary is that changing one's actions, tactics and behaviors will not help; and you certainly don't believe that. You have no space for psychology if you believe that attaction is purely limbic.

It's not something that occurs in a conscious thought (Procreation is an instinct.). You can't think yourself into attraction. Women can logically think themselves into marrying a guy because he has money, but that does not mean she's really attracted to him. In fact, she is likely to go get pregnant by someone who she presumes to have high quality sperm, and then have the money guy raise it (again go to David Busses site and look at the scientific studies on who women are most attracted to when they're ovulating. Alpha Males! Who they also see as short-term mates. When they aren't ovulating - they are more attracted to beta males aka: providers.)

NOW, past attraction (which is primal).... The emotional side of the brain and the logical side of the brain both come into play. It takes more than attraction to attract. And having attraction does not guarantee anything other than itself. It IS POSSIBLE for a woman to not be attracted to you and then become attracted to you. It's not a common thing, but it does occur. But the reason for this is normally social proof.

And what does Social Proof do??? It proves you have high quality sperm.

I've seen guys advised to turn LJBF girls into pivots (girls who help them get girls). What happens when these girls go out with these guys who they LJBFed and help the guy pick up girls??? They begin to grow attraction to him! The more successful he is at picking up women - the more she begins to no longer want to "just be friends". Normally the women have no idea they're even going to end up feeling this way. They will normally (when pressed) probably attribute it to jealousy.

Jealousy = fear of lose.

You don't fear the lose of someone who you see as low quality do you? And that may be how she saw you before you started demonstrating how attracted other women are to you.

Not even scientists that overdrink from Darwin/Dawkins cool-aid would believe that....

Social Psychology and Evolutionary Psychology both DO believe that.

What women do you pursue? The clingy, over available, puppy-looking girl that is calling you 24/7; or the one that evades all your attempts to get them?

Certainly not either... They're both 2 different extremes.

Have you never had a girl pursue you? Don't you think she had the same thoughts on her mind (we're right for each other, he's blind not to see it, he's following his instincts and not being rational)?

I don't know what she thought. But she was just following her instincts and of course being irrational. What a woman with one-itis (or a man for that matter) believes - isn't relevant)

Men are more logical???? Everyday I read more and more posts about guys on the Forum that fell for the girl they've seen at the bus stop, for girls that are not even aware they exist, or that want to get back with girls that slept around behind their backs.

This forum? More and more? No playboy, this has been the way the PUA/Seduction community has operated as long as i've been in it (since 99-00) - that women are more emotional and men are more logical IS NOT a theory that only appears in the PUA/Seduction community... A lot of mainstream media sources (self-help books for fixing relationships, etc) share the same belief.

Despite a few obvious differenteces; I don't buy that men and women are completely different.

Well rebel against the system then! Have your minority view (on this board). That makes you a troll not a visionary.

Thanks, that was exactly my point. People are looking for relationships here, or try to get a particular girl, therefore focusing the advice solely on 'move on, you lost this one' doesn't do much help.

Of course it does! The answer to getting a particular girl who you already messed really bad up with - is... to get a different particular girl.

 

[tafakna]

I've seen guys advised to turn LJBF girls into pivots (girls who help them get girls). What happens when these girls go out with these guys who they LJBFed and help the guy pick up girls??? They begin to grow attraction to him! The more successful he is at picking up women - the more she begins to no longer want to "just be friends". Normally the women have no idea they're even going to end up feeling this way. They will normally (when pressed) probably attribute it to jealousy.

Some common ground here (even though if we're to follow Cialdini like theories I'd say Scarcity is as much a factor as Social Proof here, when girls start feeling that they can no longer have a guy they took for granted).

So if you agree that there's life after LJBF, why the heck should ARrocket completely ignore the girl and not even attempt to go out with her (while also trying different girls)?

It's not like he's in love with this girl. It's not like he will feel more successful by giving up and pretending nothing happenned.

In the worst case scenario he gets a female friend, a better understanding of girls modus operandi; and the chance of grasping why she was not attracted to him.

 

[Forty0ztoFreedom]

AFC Adam actually teaches to PURPOSELY get some girls as friends.

I've been out a couple times with a big group of girls. You feel like a fvcking pimp, even if they're just friends . . Zero approach anxiety.

As long as you're not oneitus-ing a girl after she LJBF's you, take the friendship. It will probably help.