She meets a coworker aboard?

[DragonBlood]

background

So... one of the girls in the office (Becky) tells me over lunch she is "single and lonely" and that Im so lucky to be surrounded by family (I asked her out a year ago but she had a bf at the time so this was a massive hint). A couple days later I stop by her office and ask her out, she says yes but is going abroad on a work trip that weekend (legit) so she says we will go out when shes back. This is where I **** up and go for a kiss too soon and as a result we havent been speaking AT ALL for about 3 months. no texts, emails, in person chat. I just go about my business and other girls. To be honest I thought she would be mad for about 2 weeks to a month and want to reconnect but new light has come to the surface that makes me question why she is still avoiding me.


present day

A news letter went around the office this week congratulating Becky and Peter on winning an award for a piece of collaborated work presented at said event. Whos Peter?

Peter was a guy who was visiting the office for 3 months last winter as part of his training program. He lives in a different country and went back there in Dec 2013, pretty much never to be heard of again. However while he was visiting he openly played with Beckys hair and hands over lunch much to the disgust of everybody else, especially since Becky was seeing someone at the time. Really, I did not care she was NOT my problem (I was dating someone else). Peter is a very animated person who would get laughed at during work for claiming he was "gods gift to women" and pushed most of the girls and guys away for his very hands on behavior. It was obvious he was desperate and afraid to just ask out a girl. I dont fully believe they were intimate during this time as Peter was still looking for approval and dropping hints he wanted to sex her right up to the end. Of course I could be wrong now!


So, I have to look at this situation more objectively now.

On the one hand Becky is telling me she isnt seeing anyone (until I pissed her off) but at the EXACT SAME TIME she had been Skyping with this guy for months collaborating on a project which ultimately lead to a week long work related (because same project) trip abroad without mentioning it to me or anybody.


Personally I would never waste time building an excuse to WORK with a girl from abroad I use to know just so I could see them again and I wouldnt be interested in talking to girls I cant see and sleep with on a daily basis. But at the end of the day Becky did AGREE to meet and work with this person and then go abroad with him alone for a week. To clarify they work in different sectors that are not in any way related, this project would not have happened without a strong desire to collaborate and meet.



What do you think guys? Im not sure how to handle this situation as its came as a shock to me, I dont think I can sit to lunch with this person. Becky isnt my girlfriend but at the same time I feel like I have been lied to and disrespected with this premeditated act. If Becky mentioned she has been quietly in contact with Peter over Skype all along I would NOT of pursued her. No time for that BS.


How should I handle this? Should I confront her about it, pretend I know nothing about it (thus letting her get away with it) or do I just ignore her. Sadly just ignoring her is VERY difficult in a small office as she will appear at the lunch eventually and this topic will come into conversation? So I am left with confront or accept the deception?


At this point I believe shes avoiding me and waiting for the news letter to go away in the hopes I dont find out about it. Had the news letter not gone around and I forgot about who this person was I would never of heard about it.

 

[jay07]

You sound like a stalker.

this chick is not even remotely Interested In you dude

who cares who she banged she's not your girlfriend.

 

[DragonBlood]

Maybe your right jay... I just feel embarrassed and shocked. I only found out about it yesterday and am having trouble processing it. Im not sure its really stalking if your reading the news letter email in your inbox and suddenly put two and two together.

If she wasnt interested why did she bother dropping me blatant hints she wasnt seeing anyone and agree to go out with me? I wasnt even on that route as I was getting over an ex at the time. Its equally possible she was using this guy as a rebound during her breakup and just didnt want me to know about it.

My main point of confusion is this: She can be an ice queen for me being crass but all the same she was lying to my face and things would of headed south at this point in time either way? I accept that she probably isnt interested NOW, but back then even if things turned out good was this not a show of disrespect or a red flag?

 

[sylvester the cat]

Maybe your right jay... I just feel embarrassed and shocked. I only found out about it yesterday and am having trouble processing it. Im not sure its really stalking if your reading the news letter email in your inbox and suddenly put two and two together.

If she wasnt interested why did she bother dropping me blatant hints she wasnt seeing anyone and agree to go out with me? I wasnt even on that route as I was getting over an ex at the time. Its equally possible she was using this guy as a rebound during her breakup and just didnt want me to know about it.

My main point of confusion is this: She can be an ice queen for me being crass but all the same she was lying to my face and things would of headed south at this point in time either way? I accept that she probably isnt interested NOW, but back then even if things turned out good was this not a show of disrespect or a red flag?

i think the stalking comment refers to you investing so much energy and interest in someone who is not your girlfriend and who therefore owes you nothing, least of all respect. plus the fact you asked her out a year ago which she rejected and you are still asking her out a year later.

also you seem a little confused:

I asked her out a year ago but she had a bf at the time

However while he was visiting he openly played with Beckys hair and hands over lunch much to the disgust of everybody else, especially since Becky was seeing someone at the time. .

 

[DragonBlood]

Hmm Ok. But im just trying to get my anger out here instead of at work and understand the situation more objectively.

Are you saying no one else here would have felt disrespected once this news came out? Her actions were premeditated talking to this guy all year and a private meet up regardless of my own actions?

I always put her behavior around Peter down to
1. Not my problem
2. Unhappy with boyfriend

Now Im looking at it in retrospect.

To be fair, when I asked her out a year ago she said to me "maybe I can have two boyfriends" before panicking and rejecting. Once a boyfriend was clearly on the scene I left it at that and started dating other women. I didnt chump it out for a round two haha. Since who I started seeing was a different co-worker she was visibly jealous about it, the ice suddenly melted and she became more friendly afterwards. I havent really thought about this in a long time and until she threw the hints out and probably knew I was single at the time.

Its unclear to me if she was rebounding and this is something that would have ended things anyway or if this was the long term plan and she was just playing games.

 

[Dhoulmagus]

Why the **** do guys waste so much time on duds. If a girl likes you than it will be obvious. If she doesn't like you than move on.

 

[sylvester the cat]

Hmm Ok. But im just trying to get my anger out here instead of at work and understand the situation more objectively.

Are you saying no one else here would have felt disrespected once this news came out? Her actions were premeditated talking to this guy all year and a private meet up regardless of my own actions?

I always put her behavior around Peter down to
1. Not my problem
2. Unhappy with boyfriend

Now Im looking at it in retrospect.

To be fair, when I asked her out a year ago she said to me "maybe I can have two boyfriends" before panicking and rejecting. Once a boyfriend was clearly on the scene I left it at that and started dating other women. Since who I started seeing was a different co-worker she was visibly jealous about it, the ice suddenly melted and she became more friendly afterwards. I havent really thought about this in a long time and until she threw the hints out and probably knew I was single at the time.

she sounds like an attention wh0re.

seriously you asked her out, she said no. that ought to be the end of it. her life is not your concern and vice versa.

also - this is why business and social affairs ought not mix.

 

[Yusaark]

Dude that's rough! I'm sorry you're going through all of this! I remember once making a move on a coworker who was always super nice to everyone, she said she wasn't interested, then she got all uncomfortable every time I saw her... TORTURE

Now what follows may feel like a lot of overthinking to you and if that's the case, good for you for knowing yourself, and skip to the parts you like. I write this way because I am obsessed with neuroscience, arts, and learning and will write it from that perspective.

I agree with some of the other posters although I think this is a better way of looking at it.

First thing, you did the perfect thing at the beginning of this story... YOU MADE A MISTAKE! My first suggestion is to try to remember the feelings you felt that made you want to try and kiss her too soon. Close your eyes and really imagine, to the best of your ability and without straining yourself, to remember the feelings especially around your chest. In the long run, visualizing emotions in particular moments that have happened in your past will help your brain calibrate for the future (brain plasticity yo !)

As for Peter, he sounds like a rake. A rake is someone who is shameless about his obsession with women. He is most easily identified by having slept with many women, making it known that he has, by being unabashed about his flirtations in public, and enjoying the challenge brought on by his target being in a relationship. If he only does a few of these then he's not a good rake...

Now this type of flirtation is definitely not for everyone-its definitely not my personality-but this is generally how its working for him: His reputation either preceeds him or is communicated by an extreme comfort with flirting in potentially inappropriate situations, either way he will be associated with strong emotion (disgust, discomfort, attraction, etc...). Then when his target becomes the center of his vision it is exhilarating for a number of potential reasons but most importantly because of two things: "There must be a reason why he is so confident in flirting..." and because it is extremely rare that we receive such intense and focused attention from others anymore.

The trick is, with this type of seductive character, to essentially objectify and idealize yourself (ask a feminist how these are essentially the same); you must appear to be a single-minded individual because only then will others defend you with "He can't help himself". You can't half ass being shameless because then you are showing you can help yourself.

Now to Becky.

From my point of view two things happened: you freaked her out a little by going for a kiss too early... and again, better to go too early than never because that's how you begin to master this area of your life... but it definitely sounds like she backpedaled because of that mistake.

The second thing that is happening is she got involved with Peter. If she's a decently smart person she probably realizes that Peter is probably not relationship material but if she's older she may be feeling frustration at the lack of thrilling options. While he clearly is shameless and single-minded, it might be nice to experience such single-minded passion, as fleeting as she probably knows it will be.

Finally comes the tough love.

You got burned and I think you're hoping to find the blame elsewhere because clearly its hurting you a lot that you feel rejected... I get it. But the only way this area of your life will change and stop hurting is if you try to breathe through the pain (like your at the gym) and try to pick the experience apart by taking time to imagine the feelings (like I suggested earlier) except now in other people's shoes. If you really want to learn close your eyes after each sentence and take a second to paint the pictures in your imagination:

- Peter probably did not spend a lot of time trying to get Becky to work with him. Becky has been feeling lonely, working in a job that is not full of thrills. Peter's confidence and disregard for appropriate behaviour is perhaps revolting but it is also thrilling and intriguing and this narrow view of him naturally idealizes him as a thrilling person. An invitation to work for a week in a foreign country with him was probably a welcome escape into a simpler, exciting, and more youthful time. If she recognizes that Peter is probably not relationship material this only enhances the excitement because it gets rid of all the complexities of relationships.

- On the other hand, Becky is feeling lonely and not enjoying her work life a whole lot. There's this guy though that she thinks is relationship potential (connection potential) who works in her department. She's been eyeing him for some time and he seems like a nice guy-and in fact he is although she doesn't know that yet. She finally decides to drop a HUGE hint that she's interested and he picks up quickly. He asks her out. Then all of a sudden he tries to kiss her with no anticipation built and she wasn't feeling it yet at all. Now Becky feels this guy is a bit weird or just doesn't get it... ah well at least she can go and have fun for a short time with Peter until she finds another potential.

- Finally we have DragonBlood (DB). I think DB saw Becky and was attracted to her for a while. In his head he started to build a character for Becky based on the narrow interactions he's had with her-much like Becky's idealizing of Peter. This character in DB's head known as Becky is someone he begins to know pretty well and as he imagines the potential for a relationship the anticipation between DB and imaginary Becky rises. Naturally when real-life Becky drops a huge hint there is sudden and intense cognitive consonance as the two Becky's become one and DB feels the anticipation for both Becky's now. Again naturally DB follows his instincts and fulfills the anticipation. Real life Becky who has not been experiencing this anticipation rejects the kiss and DB feels like crap because he feels betrayed by his intuition.

What happened between you and Becky sounds like a disconnect. You experienced intense anticipation for a few potential reasons and she did not feel it because she was dating other people at the time. Most people say don't idealize, don't trust your instincts, thats bull****... What you need to do is teach your instincts, through experience, to listen to who's in front of you and to distinguish the two "Beckys".

If you want ideas on how to improve and avoid this pain again just comment and I'll post a little more. If some of the assumptions I'm making are wrong that will happen however I really believe you can get the right understanding from this post even if some of the details are off.

 

[DragonBlood]

Why the **** do guys waste so much time on duds. If a girl likes you than it will be obvious. If she doesn't like you than move on.

Yeah, but shes being distant because I pissed her off, didnt apologize or raise the topic and finally ignored her. Now she just sits in her office in a huff NOT going to lunch which is hardly indifferent behavior.

I do believe she was interested at some point but I feel like I was also being played because I showed interest in the past?


thanks for your support Yusaark I will read your post in full and comment back, I have to afk for now.

 

[No.Danny]

Who
The
****
cares!
She doesn't like you.
You mad because your ego took a hit? Need a napkin?

 

[VladPatton]

You dudes need to simplify your lives, man. All you had to do is tell her that you'll catch her when she gets back, and wait for her return and tag that ass. Why the fück would you put a romantic move on her in a non-date-like setting?? She could of been wondering about going on for you the whole time she was away, building you up mentally, which is a huge plus for you.

Just leave her be, act like non of this bullshıt ever happened, get your paycheck, and score girls away from work.

 

[sylvester the cat]

Just think the following:

"I know how to treat a b!tch. Fvck all that nice @$$ sweetheart $h!t!"

I've come to the realization in the past few months that you can't be all lovey dovey and talking about puppy dogs and ice cream with women you're into.

sure you can. just make sure you're banging them whilst you're talking about said puppy dogs and ice-cream.

 

[DragonBlood]

Thank you Yusaark. I believe over all you are 90% on, I also see the importance in overthinking things to better know yourself for the future which is why I am where I am now. I will try going into some of the finer details to answer you questions. As it stands I am taking a two week break from work to try and think things through and give Becky much needed space (one week in now, and found out about Peter yesterday). By Becky avoiding me, she was also skipping lunch and social time, something I didnt think was cool for someone I already knew was suffering with loneliness. Unlike me where I have my family here, she comes from another country, lives on her own I think and really doesnt have much to do outside of work and has often referred to her work colleagues as feeling like her extended family.


My reasons for going for the kiss there and then I remember clearly so hopefully you can help me understand them better. When I walked into Beckys office I had no intentions of going for a kiss. My plan was to ask her out and if she said yes (she did) we would set something up. What happened instead is she was travelling for a week and suggested we could spend time together during lunch before she went and set something up when shes back. Unfortunately I had a meeting over lunch and told her this so this would be the last time I would see her until she was back. I made some idle chat just to ease things along. She seemed comfortable enough and I wanted to end the conversation on a high note. My experience about being rejected for a kiss in the past was never a deal breaker and I already knew her barriers around work were MUCH lower than I thought due to her previous interactions with Peter. I remember shrugging my shoulders and feeling I shouldnt worry so much. I was totally blown away when she started telling me off and becoming distant, at the time it just came out of nowhere from how I saw her. In hindsight of this I feel light her feelings were totally weak to begin with and the idea that she could accept my offer there and then in full knowledge of what she was going to be doing anyway during the week away is just unthinkable to me. I couldnt do that to anyone (be casual on a postponement) so there is obviously something wrong here that I am missing.

Other major points:

The fact that Becky sees me as a "nice guy" with "relationship potential" seems like and ultimately was a huge disadvantage. Its not necessarily the image I want to give off because I am a confident and passionate guy more than capable of meeting and dating girls I meet on the street. But I could never of been a "Peter" to Becky, as this is MY workplace where I will be staying for at least 4 years. I put high value on my coworker connections. I dont necessarily want to be cast as less attractive or easy to manipulate than I otherwise could be. The fact that Becky was feeling lonely around me and also felt the need to go abroad to stroke her fires are places I could have fulfilled somehow and was obviously failing at. If I got her in the date all doubt would have been erased but this is clearly not good enough over all. Most women like my confidence, its sets up the whole dynamic, but at work I feel much more like a lion sitting in a cage bored. Ironically I know I am more confident and stable then Peter from my relationships outside with street pickup and my general indifference towards pushing hard for a womens attention but have no way to express that during 9-5. Id much prefer to be a "cool/good guy" than a "nice guy".

Unlike other people though, Your post also makes no suggestion that I should be focusing on pushing Becky away. Merely that I should forgive and understand her position better. This seems confusing and dangerous to me. As if Im being empathetic, casual and indifferent after working through my emotions and becoming wiser doesnt this inadvertently mean Ive left my defenses down around Becky if she decides to forgive me and push things along again in a year or so? Bringing me back to square one?

I forgot to mention that Becky started gossiping about the event with at least one or two coworkers who I am friends with. They started acting more standoffish with me as a result. I never understood why she did that as I didnt breath a word about the interaction to anyone at work or anything like that. This caught me by surprise for sure.

One point that I think is missing from your overall analysis is Beckys relationship towards her boyfriend and towards me WAY before Peter arrived. Ive known Becky 2 years with Peter only appearing in the second. The first year had a slightly different dynamic. Becky would often flirt with me and drop much more subtle hints that she was interested. I was unsure what to do about it because she had mentioned her boyfriend on rare occasions and I wasnt interested in seconds or sharing a girl. Eventually the tension got to me and I just had to ask her over the phone. I wanted to talk in person but it was difficult to do that around work as she was always surrounded by guys. She seemed somewhat excited, played with the idea over the phone but panicked and rejected. She did not speak to me for about 3-4 months after that but I still felt relieved that the tension was gone. I felt lead on at the time but I never made a big deal about it and just went with the flow. It was only when I started seeing other single women that she became more friendly again and around this time Peter shortly arrived. I dont think it was out of any genuine interest to speak with me and more a curious jealously to isolate the women for questioning. As you can see, neither of have had ANY success of resolving arguments in a reasonable time frame.

The main reason I mention the first year is Im curious how my asking out Becky would have changed her perception of me, was she ever happy with her boyfriend or whats going on there? and that this piece of analysis is missing from Beckys description. I believe this is why she phrased her hint so obvious because I wasnt coming back and her boyfriend was the main pushing point.... through her interactions with Peter though, the boyfriend wasnt the issue at all? Not sure.... I feel like by valuing my reputation at work I had failed to give Becky something she obviously needed, which would have always been an issue sitting in the background regardless of Peter or whatever. Kinos tricky. Ive been warned about this before from my boss when someone complained about tapping them on the shoulder and speaking to them in an demanding manner. As a result Ive toned kino way down at work to pretty much nothing as its obvious other people dont want to see that, or even how much would be appropriate.. even in the knowledge this is decremental. You were right in guessing Becky is older at around 35 and myself 28. She talked a lot about marriages, sex and psychology very openly which seems to embarrass other people. She displays a fairly open and carefree attitude towards life, dresses VERY provocatively, like shes dolled up for a date all the time but in her blow off of my kiss I actually came to assume she was WAY more conservative and shy than she displays (all talk) and might just have been trying to grab my attention. Of course Im starting to second guess this assumption with your objective points. Since we havent spoken in months, and I obviously want to understand her position, I have also noted she puts little to no effort into her appearance now. All black and hair tied back! Its hard not to notice this drastic change in appearance when people complement her fashion sense often. Im not stupid enough to believe Becky was dressing up to impress me, but passing her in the hallways and the fact that I havent contacted her at all I do sense a feeling of defeat about her.