She expected too much?

[Miran]

I am 19y old, and i met this girl back in october, there was instant connection, we talked about books art and music, and she gave me her number and agreed going out again, we went out again, and it was really good, she asked me a lot questions about me, she introduced me to her friends, we got drunk together,laughed and kissed, she complimented me a lot, and i started falling in love after 2 weeks, in november she told me she doesnt want a relationship, because she didnt felt spark, and i was like wtf, why would you go out with me and have fun for about 2 months and then that ****, i was really confused, and she gave me friendzone speech, and that it wasnt me, it was all her, but it wasnt helpfull at all, if she wasnt into me she could know and tell after first meeting/date, that really ****ed me, and I asked her best friend and she didnt know the reason, she told me that she really liked me and told her that i was smart beautiful, she told me all those things and that it was her fault, I see her atleast once a week because we share same social circle,but we are not friend, we just say hi and thats it, i can understand if you dont feel connection, because I felt it, but not like this, do you have similar experiences, because i had only 2 girls, nothing really serious, I am more focused on college, and this girl was ****ing beautiful, so I was really dissapointed.

 

[Bible_Belt]

You can never listen to a woman's words about these things. Sometimes what happens is that the girl will freak out that she likes you too much, and get frightened by the idea of having a serious relationship at a young age, so she makes up some bs about chemistry to try to let you down easy.

The young ones are flaky. There's not much you can do about it, except not take it too personally.

 

[TheFixer14]

Sounds like you were being a nice guy. Did you fvck her?

Also all women will always expect too much. It's annoying.

 

[sazc]

Sometimes the female realizes that she is at the point where she is going to have to start getting emotionally vulnerable in the relationship, and she freaks out and decides she doesnt want a relationship - then you get the "dont feel a spark" "dont want a relationship" etc speech. Essentially she's afraid of being hurt and the fear is driving her to shut the relationship down.

In my opinon, women who pass up good men b/c they get scared are idiots but you have to realize that the female doesnt know herself well enough to know this is happening. All she knows is that she 'lost attraction' - and that is really her getting scared.

My advice for you is, in general, make sure you dont spend a bunch of money on any female. If you are looking for an LTR, get to know the chick inexpensively. And you do really want to get secs into the equation. If you can do this, she will be emotionally bonded with you a bit (if she doesnt have issues).

At the very least, you will be getting some sechs while you date.

 

[btownbuck2012]

Sometimes the female realizes that she is at the point where she is going to have to start getting emotionally vulnerable in the relationship, and she freaks out and decides she doesnt want a relationship - then you get the "dont feel a spark" "dont want a relationship" etc speech. Essentially she's afraid of being hurt and the fear is driving her to shut the relationship down.

In my opinon, women who pass up good men b/c they get scared are idiots but you have to realize that the female doesnt know herself well enough to know this is happening. All she knows is that she 'lost attraction' - and that is really her getting scared.

My advice for you is, in general, make sure you dont spend a bunch of money on any female. If you are looking for an LTR, get to know the chick inexpensively. And you do really want to get secs into the equation. If you can do this, she will be emotionally bonded with you a bit (if she doesnt have issues).

At the very least, you will be getting some sechs while you date.

How is getting scared because your partner is expecting emotional vulnerability the same thing as losing attraction for the person? I'm not saying I don't agree with you because I do. I'm just curious as to how this process really works inside a woman's head. Can you elaborate a bit more on that?

 

[Miran]

Sounds like you were being a nice guy. Did you fvck her?

Also all women will always expect too much. It's annoying.

I cant really say i was too nice, I was acting normal and direct with what i want, and yes she is young, there are some things we cant control I guess

 

[TheFixer14]

I cant really say i was too nice, I was acting normal and direct with what i want, and yes she is young, there are some things we cant control I guess

Sounds like she either doesn't know what she wants or she felt that she wasn't enough for you. Nothing you could really do about. Screen for more mature women in the future to avoid such headaches.

I hate how women do things like that. The sad thing about it is that the majority of women do this. The dating market is really fvcked up.

 

[sazc]

How is getting scared because your partner is expecting emotional vulnerability the same thing as losing attraction for the person? I'm not saying I don't agree with you because I do. I'm just curious as to how this process really works inside a woman's head. Can you elaborate a bit more on that?

It's NOT the same thing. Yea, I can elaborate. The reason for this, I believe, is both baggage and our family situation and weather we felt safe being vulnerable with people.

So I'll put this in terms of my relationship.

Two months went by, we had been having sex. He was (is) a really good guy. Helpful, thoughtful out of and in bed, great job, head on straight. He's more an alpha male, a mans man, which I admire. He had been consistent in the relationship (there was never a reason to doubt he was interested) He had a life and wasnt overly needy.

So, one day, I was passively thinking about the relationship and all of a sudden this feeling of dread came over me and I thought "Is this what I really want?" "Do I really want a relationship?" "Do I really want him?" and I contemplated breaking up with him, even tho there was no logical reason why I would cut him loose.

I believe this is where most females stop thinking, and they just act on these feelings. They believe "well, if I am questioning the relationship then it must not be right for me". And they stop contemplating their feelings, and just act. This is when, out of the blue, when things are going well, and enough time has gone by that you are just starting to feel comfortable, she give you the 'let's just be friends' or the 'I dont want a relationship' occurs.

For me, in that moment, my next thoughts revolved around the months prior, that I had been single and dating, and the men I had encountered, and the dates I had put up with, and the general incompatibility I was finding, until I met this guy. My next thought was "what am I doing? why am I thinking of cutting him loose when there is nothing wrong and he is meeting my needs so well?"

I realized that I was at an emotional crossroads. Up till that point I didn't have a lot invested in this relationship emotionally (after all, it had only been about 2 months) I realized that, if we kept going on, together, i was going to start catching serious feelings and THAT was what was causing me doubt. Was I ready to let someone in? Was I ready to put my heart on the line and risk it emotionally again? Was I ready to get vulnerable and try to connect on a real level when I could get hurt?

In my case I realized that what was going on was that I was having feelings of fear that were manifesting themselves as feelings of doubt. I was still fearful, but decided not to give in to the fear and persevere.

The only thing you can do, as a man, is realize that it's NOT you, it's HER. She's just not ready to get vulnerable with someone. You can chalk it up to timing. Especially if things have been great and you have been treating her well. There's just no reason a sane woman would let a good man go. I feel it's all about she isnt ready to be vulnerable.

Dont forget - with a 'bad boy' you dont have to open up. You're constantly chasing him and he doesnt care how you feel, there's never a moment you need to open up with him, he's to busy running and you're too busy chasing.

Thoughts?

 

[btownbuck2012]

It's NOT the same thing. Yea, I can elaborate. The reason for this, I believe, is both baggage and our family situation and weather we felt safe being vulnerable with people.

So I'll put this in terms of my relationship.

Two months went by, we had been having sex. He was (is) a really good guy. Helpful, thoughtful out of and in bed, great job, head on straight. He's more an alpha male, a mans man, which I admire. He had been consistent in the relationship (there was never a reason to doubt he was interested) He had a life and wasnt overly needy.

So, one day, I was passively thinking about the relationship and all of a sudden this feeling of dread came over me and I thought "Is this what I really want?" "Do I really want a relationship?" "Do I really want him?" and I contemplated breaking up with him, even tho there was no logical reason why I would cut him loose.

I believe this is where most females stop thinking, and they just act on these feelings. They believe "well, if I am questioning the relationship then it must not be right for me". And they stop contemplating their feelings, and just act. This is when, out of the blue, when things are going well, and enough time has gone by that you are just starting to feel comfortable, she give you the 'let's just be friends' or the 'I dont want a relationship' occurs.

For me, in that moment, my next thoughts revolved around the months prior, that I had been single and dating, and the men I had encountered, and the dates I had put up with, and the general incompatibility I was finding, until I met this guy. My next thought was "what am I doing? why am I thinking of cutting him loose when there is nothing wrong and he is meeting my needs so well?"

I realized that I was at an emotional crossroads. Up till that point I didn't have a lot invested in this relationship emotionally (after all, it had only been about 2 months) I realized that, if we kept going on, together, i was going to start catching serious feelings and THAT was what was causing me doubt. Was I ready to let someone in? Was I ready to put my heart on the line and risk it emotionally again? Was I ready to get vulnerable and try to connect on a real level when I could get hurt?

In my case I realized that what was going on was that I was having feelings of fear that were manifesting themselves as feelings of doubt. I was still fearful, but decided not to give in to the fear and persevere.

The only thing you can do, as a man, is realize that it's NOT you, it's HER. She's just not ready to get vulnerable with someone. You can chalk it up to timing. Especially if things have been great and you have been treating you well. There's just no reason a sane woman would let a good man go. I feel it's all about she isnt ready to be vulnerable.

Dont forget - with a 'bad boy' you dont have to open up. You're constantly chasing him and he doesnt care how you feel, there's never a moment you need to open up with him, he's to busy running and you're too busy chasing.

Thoughts?

Excellent answer. Really appreciate the time and effort you put into that answer. I think this is similar to what happened to me with this last failed relationship I was in. Early on this girl made a comment about how she's always been a bit of a "commitment phobe". I heard her when she said it, but was so confident in how well she was treating and how interested she seemed to be that I let it slide.

After the relationship blew up I found a book called "He's Scared, She's Scared" which basically detailed a very precise outline of how commitment phobic relationships tend to play out. It starts with the commitment phobic partner HEAVILY pursuing the other partner. However, it's only when the other partner appears to have bought in or wants a more meaningful connection does the commitment phobic partner start retreating, playing a-lot of push pull and basically turning the other partner into a needy wreck.

I couldn't believe how quickly and pathetically I lost frame with this girl who appeared to adore me previously. But after reading that book, and a-lot of posts on here, I'm starting to realize that being an "alpha male" isn't a band aid one fit solution to all my or any man's women's problems. There's a a-lot more at play with other people that I used to not think about. I used to internalize everything, i.e. she's acting different and losing interest then I MUST be at fault. As you mentioned in your post, this girl had some bad family problems; specifically with her Mom and Dad's awful relationship that she had to grow up seeing.

 

[sazc]

@btownbuck2012 One of the things that contributed to the breakup of my marriage was that my ex was raised by a BPD mother. He learned young and consistently that any need he ever had would not be met by anyone but himself. Since he was young, he couldn't tend to all his needs, so he decided that some needs would never be met. He and I had several conversations about his childhood. He told me that, eventually, he decided it was pointless to have needs. Having a BPD mother also means your are dismissed when you have needs. So he also learned that opening up (being vulnerable) would only be met with emotional dismissal. He's 47 and still wont open up to anyone,be vulnerable, and wont emotionally connect with any needs.

You are correct in your understanding that simply being an 'alpha male' isnt a singular fix. I like what the DJ methods teach because I believe that people need to stop wasting their time on people who arent interested. If she's not interested, next her and find a female who is. It makes me sad when I read posts from people who takes the rejection personally. As you and I have discussed, I believe 95% of the time, it isnt US, it's actually all them, that is the issue. But we feel rejected and eventually start to shut down, or get bitter, etc.

Brene Brown has a great book tat talks about vulnerability and how to test to see if someone is worthy of you opening up to them. It's called "Daring Greatly"

I believe this is the next step. DJ to get her but, after you have her, you need to connect with her emotionally.

 

[Roober]

Excellent answer. Really appreciate the time and effort you put into that answer. I think this is similar to what happened to me with this last failed relationship I was in. Early on this girl made a comment about how she's always been a bit of a "commitment phobe". I heard her when she said it, but was so confident in how well she was treating and how interested she seemed to be that I let it slide.

After the relationship blew up I found a book called "He's Scared, She's Scared" which basically detailed a very precise outline of how commitment phobic relationships tend to play out. It starts with the commitment phobic partner HEAVILY pursuing the other partner. However, it's only when the other partner appears to have bought in or wants a more meaningful connection does the commitment phobic partner start retreating, playing a-lot of push pull and basically turning the other partner into a needy wreck.

I couldn't believe how quickly and pathetically I lost frame with this girl who appeared to adore me previously. But after reading that book, and a-lot of posts on here, I'm starting to realize that being an "alpha male" isn't a band aid one fit solution to all my or any man's women's problems. There's a a-lot more at play with other people that I used to not think about. I used to internalize everything, i.e. she's acting different and losing interest then I MUST be at fault. As you mentioned in your post, this girl had some bad family problems; specifically with her Mom and Dad's awful relationship that she had to grow up seeing.

me too man... almost an exact replica of me and my ex...
-first 3 months, she pursued HARD, snaps, texts, hung out a couple times a week
-switch flipped
-last 4 months, gradually more distant. Still called a lot, but wouldn't make time to see me.
-turned me into a needy wreck

So, if a woman hits that crossroad, how do you help them get past it? Is there anything a man can do to salvage it?

 

[btownbuck2012]

@btownbuck2012 One of the things that contributed to the breakup of my marriage was that my ex was raised by a BPD mother. He learned young and consistently that any need he ever had would not be met by anyone but himself. Since he was young, he couldn't tend to all his needs, so he decided that some needs would never be met. He and I had several conversations about his childhood. He told me that, eventually, he decided it was pointless to have needs. Having a BPD mother also means your are dismissed when you have needs. So he also learned that opening up (being vulnerable) would only be met with emotional dismissal. He's 47 and still wont open up to anyone,be vulnerable, and wont emotionally connect with any needs.

You are correct in your understanding that simply being an 'alpha male' isnt a singular fix. I like what the DJ methods teach because I believe that people need to stop wasting their time on people who arent interested. If she's not interested, next her and find a female who is. It makes me sad when I read posts from people who takes the rejection personally. As you and I have discussed, I believe 95% of the time, it isnt US, it's actually all them, that is the issue. But we feel rejected and eventually start to shut down, or get bitter, etc.

Brene Brown has a great book tat talks about vulnerability and how to test to see if someone is worthy of you opening up to them. It's called "Daring Greatly"

I believe this is the next step. DJ to get her but, after you have her, you need to connect with her emotionally.

^BOOM. That is exactly what this girl was like. It was like pulling teeth to get her to open up to me on a deeper level. In fact, when I had struck a chord with her on something, something that really resonated with her, she would shut down but I would see a little tear start to develop in her eye and then go away. It's like she was doing everything in her power to not show any type of emotion. It was bizarre and in retrospect makes me feel very sad for her.

One very bizarre incident occurred at my place. My ex grew up in the Dominican republic and wasn't very close to her father but supposedly one of her Uncles, who still lived in the DR, played a major part in her upbringing and she considered him to be her father figure. She got the call one morning at my place that he had passed away and she completely lost it. Very emotional and tons of crying, but then a couple hours later when I dropped her off back at her place it almost seemed like she was embarrassed she acted that way. She seemed ashamed of showing the vulnerability that ANY human being would have in that situation. I even told her how proud I was of her that she was strong enough to handle this and she kind of scoffed at me. Made me feel like absolute sh*t after what was a situation that should have brought us both closer together. Didn't mean sh*t to her apparently.

I met her mother once and this woman was very strange. She's Dominican and according to my Ex knows english but refuses to speak it when she feels uncomfortable. So for this entire lunch her Mom just sat next to me silent. Very awkward. I got the impression from my Ex that she was sort of like her Mom's caretaker. I got that feeling when I was with them that day, that my ex had the responsibility of looking after her mother. That coupled with my ex's lack of an ability to show any emotion makes me think that her mother could have really done some serious damage there, maybe even was a BPD like your ex husband's Mom.

 

[sazc]

me too man... almost an exact replica of me and my ex...

So, if a woman hits that crossroad, how do you help them get past it? Is there anything a man can do to salvage it?

I have been contemplating this question. I wish I had an answer.

If I consider what I would have wanted my man to say, if I had broken up with him in this manner, I think "something along the lines of "I'm so sorry to hear that, we've been having so much fun together. Let me know if you ever change your mind" And then leave it at that, NC, etc. In these situations she has to realize she lost something and she has to be the one to want the relationship. She has to come around. The best thing for you is to let her go and go on your way, knowing it was about her, and dont look back. Find another female that will appreciate what you have to offer and isnt scared of connection.

 

[btownbuck2012]

me too man... almost an exact replica of me and my ex...
-first 3 months, she pursued HARD, snaps, texts, hung out a couple times a week
-switch flipped
-last 4 months, gradually more distant. Still called a lot, but wouldn't make time to see me.
-turned me into a needy wreck

So, if a woman hits that crossroad, how do you help them get past it? Is there anything a man can do to salvage it?

Not sure my brother. I've done a-lot of soul searching and deep thinking about not only this woman I was involved with but also my life as a whole and the direction I want it to go after this break up. I think the answer is to learn to identify and then ACT on any red flags we see in these people before we get bonded. As hard as that would be, I can't risk the type of emotional pain and hardship again that this woman inflicted upon me. I wanted her to be something that she Wasn't. period. The signs were there and I ignored them. Lesson learned.

It would be a great thing if we were able to help them get through this, but what is causing them to act this way I think is so deep and ingrained into them that it's not worth our time and effort in the long run.

 

[sazc]

^BOOM. That is exactly what this girl was like. It was like pulling teeth to get her to open up to me on a deeper level. In fact, when I had struck a chord with her on something, something that really resonated with her, she would shut down but I would see a little tear start to develop in her eye and then go away. It's like she was doing everything in her power to not show any type of emotion. It was bizarre and in retrospect makes me feel very sad for her.

One very bizarre incident occurred at my place. My ex grew up in the Dominican republic and wasn't very close to her father but supposedly one of her Uncles, who still lived in the DR, played a major part in her upbringing and she considered him to be her father figure. She got the call one morning at my place that he had passed away and she completely lost it. Very emotional and tons of crying, but then a couple hours later when I dropped her off back at her place it almost seemed like she was embarrassed she acted that way. She seemed ashamed of showing the vulnerability that ANY human being would have in that situation. I even told her how proud I was of her that she was strong enough to handle this and she kind of scoffed at me. Made me feel like absolute sh*t after what was a situation that should have brought us both closer together. Didn't mean sh*t to her apparently.

I met her mother once and this woman was very strange. She's Dominican and according to my Ex knows english but refuses to speak it when she feels uncomfortable. So for this entire lunch her Mom just sat next to me silent. Very awkward. I got the impression from my Ex that she was sort of like her Mom's caretaker. I got that feeling when I was with them that day, that my ex had the responsibility of looking after her mother. That coupled with my ex's lack of an ability to show any emotion makes me think that her mother could have really done some serious damage there, maybe even was a BPD like your ex husband's Mom.

Idk about the BPD part but I can tell you that anyone (male or female) that wont show emotion, refuses, gets embarrassed, etc about showing emotion is a person that will be very difficult to connect with. As human beings we need to be able to trust our partner enough to be able to be real emotionally with them. This is the kind of connectivity that will glue a relationship together. If you are with someone who wont show emotion for any reason, unless you are that same type of person, the relationship will be difficult.

Because my dad was not emotional with me, I tended to pick partners who were not emotional beings. It was just more comfortable/familiar being with someone who was closed off. Then about 6 month in, I would start to feel as if they weren't really invested, didn't care, we were not connected, and I would get unhappy, try to change him, and eventually leave. It was a pattern, and I had to address my own lack of ability to open up quickly, in an effort to change the pattern.

We tend to equate being vulnerable with getting hurt. Brene Brown talks about how we actually need to test people BY being a wee bit vulnerable, and seeing how they react. This is the only way we can know if they are someone we can trust and ultimately connect with.

 

[sazc]

@Roober @btownbuck2012 People will tell you who they are. All you have to do is listen and believe what they say. When someone tells you they are commitment phobe, instead of thinking "ill change that" you have to say to yourself "this person is commitment phobe and I am looking for an eventual relationship. I shouldn't waste my time here" and then move on.

I once went on a date with a guy who showed me a bunch of dog videos (his dogs) and talked non stop about his dogs. It was annoying. What I realized was that he needs a female in his life with as much passion about dogs as he has, and that wasnt me. He was a good guy, we just weren't compatible. When someone tells you something about who they are, and you realize it's in direct contrast to what you are looking for, that's a red flag and a signal that it wont work out. You're not compatible. Nip it sooner than later.

 

[Miran]

It's NOT the same thing. Yea, I can elaborate. The reason for this, I believe, is both baggage and our family situation and weather we felt safe being vulnerable with people.

So I'll put this in terms of my relationship.

Two months went by, we had been having sex. He was (is) a really good guy. Helpful, thoughtful out of and in bed, great job, head on straight. He's more an alpha male, a mans man, which I admire. He had been consistent in the relationship (there was never a reason to doubt he was interested) He had a life and wasnt overly needy.

So, one day, I was passively thinking about the relationship and all of a sudden this feeling of dread came over me and I thought "Is this what I really want?" "Do I really want a relationship?" "Do I really want him?" and I contemplated breaking up with him, even tho there was no logical reason why I would cut him loose.

I believe this is where most females stop thinking, and they just act on these feelings. They believe "well, if I am questioning the relationship then it must not be right for me". And they stop contemplating their feelings, and just act. This is when, out of the blue, when things are going well, and enough time has gone by that you are just starting to feel comfortable, she give you the 'let's just be friends' or the 'I dont want a relationship' occurs.

For me, in that moment, my next thoughts revolved around the months prior, that I had been single and dating, and the men I had encountered, and the dates I had put up with, and the general incompatibility I was finding, until I met this guy. My next thought was "what am I doing? why am I thinking of cutting him loose when there is nothing wrong and he is meeting my needs so well?"

I realized that I was at an emotional crossroads. Up till that point I didn't have a lot invested in this relationship emotionally (after all, it had only been about 2 months) I realized that, if we kept going on, together, i was going to start catching serious feelings and THAT was what was causing me doubt. Was I ready to let someone in? Was I ready to put my heart on the line and risk it emotionally again? Was I ready to get vulnerable and try to connect on a real level when I could get hurt?

In my case I realized that what was going on was that I was having feelings of fear that were manifesting themselves as feelings of doubt. I was still fearful, but decided not to give in to the fear and persevere.

The only thing you can do, as a man, is realize that it's NOT you, it's HER. She's just not ready to get vulnerable with someone. You can chalk it up to timing. Especially if things have been great and you have been treating her well. There's just no reason a sane woman would let a good man go. I feel it's all about she isnt ready to be vulnerable.

Dont forget - with a 'bad boy' you dont have to open up. You're constantly chasing him and he doesnt care how you feel, there's never a moment you need to open up with him, he's to busy running and you're too busy chasing.

Thoughts?

Holy ****, women are complicated hahah, you explained really well so thank you, that is what probably happened to me, she was hurt before and she couldnt attach to me the way I wanted, frustrating part is that she had no explanation, and we as man use logic for everything and that was just mind**** for me, new experience I guess, problem is that I fell hard for her and was dissapointed, what do you think when you are on "crossroad" is there anything guy can do or to just let go and move on, which is frustrating because you did nothing wrong and still got nothing, shw even told me we would be perfect together, which is just kill me, I wont date anytime soon, I need to focus on more important things.., she wasnt ready to get hurt but she destroyed my feelings that way, you can say it is selfish but I cant really blame her, she is young, i would do the same i guess.. things is that circle of "not ready to get hurt" is just getting bigger she was hurt by someone then she did same to me, and there is chance that i will do it to next girl i met, because i would be afraid to not get hurt, which is funny because i should give 0 ****.

 

[sazc]

There is nothing you can do when a human being isn't willing to be vulnerable with you, you just have to move on. It's important for you to know your value so that, if this does happen, you know the truth is that the other person lost out. Eventually you will meet someone who is ready to connect. You just have to believe that this last person wasn't the right one for you.

It happened to me a few years ago. Met a guy on eHarmony, we had a ton in common,we got along really well, he started off by saying he was looking for a relationship, and we were making plans to do stuff together. Two weeks later he starts getting distant, three weeks later he's telling me he has to focus on work. It was as if a lightswitch had flipped. I was baffled. A month later I realized he just wasn't ready to 'go deep ' with anyone.

It wasn't me, it was him

 

[Roober]

There is nothing you can do when a human being isn't willing to be vulnerable with you, you just have to move on. It's important for you to know your value so that, if this does happen, you know the truth is that the other person lost out. Eventually you will meet someone who is ready to connect. You just have to believe that this last person wasn't the right one for you.

It happened to me a few years ago. Met a guy on eHarmony, we had a ton in common,we got along really well, he started off by saying he was looking for a relationship, and we were making plans to do stuff together. Two weeks later he starts getting distant, three weeks later he's telling me he has to focus on work. It was as if a lightswitch had flipped. I was baffled. A month later I realized he just wasn't ready to 'go deep ' with anyone.

It wasn't me, it was him

Ya, and we have talked a bit about this. I guess it just goes down as a life lessons, an extremely painful one in my case...

 

[sazc]

Ya, and we have talked a bit about this. I guess it just goes down as a life lessons, an extremely painful one in my case...

Dating can really suck