Sex in the relationship

[ThunderMaverick]

Don't need a long BS exposition, sooooo:

Been with my girl for more than 4 years. Besides financial woes (who doesn't have them, right?) things are great. She's my best friend and we're like a couple of kids together. We click.

Lately (i guess the last year or so) I feel like sex is few and far between. When we have it it's great and I got no complaints. Yesterday I came home from work irritated, told her I couldn't be around her because I wanted to have sex and we got into it. It was a pretty civil discussion but an uncomfortable one.

I tell her everything. My policy is, if I have to start keeping my feelings from someone I love the most, i'll start keeping secrets. That's where the degeneration of the relationship starts.

I told her I've been feeling like we've been having sex at least once a week or once every 2 weeks. She says we had sex Thursday morning (she's right) and I then tell her the only time we have sex is in the morning, in the dark, only when she's horny. She also started telling me, aside from the stress of money and work, that weed doesn't really help her get in the mood. It takes the stress off, but kills her libido. I also, I guess, lost a bit of touch with the initiation process. I'm always rushing into it.

We both talked about what we needed, everything seemed okay and then we went to bed. She then initiated, to which I got really annoyed and f*cked her brains out.









From here I'm a bit lost on where to go. How often do people in a long term relationship have sex? From your experiences how many days without it until you feel there's something up? She asked how times a week of sex I'd like and I told her two, at the least. She said it didn't seem unreasonable.

If a week goes by I get anxious. Thoughts?

 

[Vulpine]

It's funny you post this, as mai frau and I have noticed that both of us are not satisfied with a recent low volume of sex. That "once a week" sort of minimum just wasn't filling our needs, mutually.

We had a similar talk, in which we agreed that sex should be more. Of course, there was some speculation as to why we weren't. I quickly cut it off: "We aren't having more sex, because we aren't having more sex, it's THAT simple."

It's odd how having sex makes you want to have MORE sex, but at the core, that's all there is to it. You're still attracted to each other, still get along, aren't particularly un-horny... so why? Hormones. The more you ƒuck, the more of the hormones are flowing, the more you want to ƒuck more.

Life gets in the way, though. Stresses and energy levels get in the way. Often, we're just too tired to take 5 minutes before falling asleep. It seems silly, to both of us, that we'd fall in such a slump. But, it happens now and then.

So... how do you get motivated to have more sex?

Myself, I catch myself getting "aggressive" when I am hungry. Similarly, and I'm sure many of you guys can relate, I get easily angered when I have too large of a load built up. My patience just wears thin to non-existent. So I told her about what I'd like to see from her. I made it clear that I didn't want a bunch of fuss about how much of a "meanie" I might be at the time, what I really need is a blow job to take some pressure off.

She understood, also, that she had part in the situation. I explained that she has no reason to hide her desire for sex from me: I already know she's a complete slut.

My slut.

I encouraged her to communicate when she needs vitamin D, or skip the chat and simply help herself to my medicine.

The results? Well, we're on the same team, so there wasn't a big spectacle to describe as far as getting more sex goes. We still had life to work around, and quickly afterwards were hosting guests back-to-back for a couple weeks, so the results were delayed. Perhaps it was better that way to build up some anticipation, but after folks left and we had the house to ourselves again...

I was clearly irritable when she got home one night.
Frau: "Aww... sugar baby..." *steps up closer, puts one hand on chest* "You need some maintenance." *starts rubbing cºck through pants, kisses*

She has been doing well and initiated several times since. Myself, I have to approach it like a game. I'm a real sh¡thead, too. I'll get her riled up at work, then not let her know where I'm at when she gets home and I'm not there. Then, when I do get home and she makes no mention of sexual stuff, I'll start her up again with some grouping or grinding while she's at the stove or sink, some neck kissing... if she resists, I yank her pants down to her ankles





...and walk away.

She gets it.

To break the slump, simply keep thinking of fun ways to get each other worked up. I was actually about to e-mail her a picture of her underwear from last night (on the dresser this morning) when I found this post.

She'll be sitting at work when she gets the picture (no text), and she'll spend the rest of her afternoon sitting in a puddle: she'll be recalling last night's session and those panties' involvement therein.

Will we be ƒucking like rabbits when she gets home? *shrug* Probably not... then again, I suspect she was planning on a thorough head session and I didn't let her suck it at all last night. *shrug* After this weekend, I'm not irritable in the slightest, and she's certainly not vitamin D deficient.
:rockon:

I think the crucial element is that you both communicate and agree that the reason you aren't having more sex isn't because of "a thing", or you don't want more sex. Once the two of you both agree that more sex is desired, then you can work together as a team to "help each other out". Yes, sometimes I have to 'put out' when I'm not feeling particularly horny. So does she. Somehow we both end up having a good time, despite what we might have felt or what we thought at the beginning.

I'll say this in conclusion: we spend our time thinking of sh¡t we have to do like work, pay bills, traffic, price of gas... we think about a lot of d¡ck-limpening garbage. Take some time to think of your gal's püssy once in a while, smell your finger on the way to work the next morning, whatever gets you thinking of ƒucking your gal. It helps your libido, and indirectly, it helps you charge up you gal's libido, too. Think about having sex more, and you will. It's easier done than said, it really is.

 

[disgustipated]

Kinda in same boat. Been with her 2 years and sometimes we only do it once a week. I need at least twice. I began reading RT, CH, and here for ways to flip it....mostly frame issues i thought. Most of the advice focused on withdrawing what you contribute to her....attention, touching, financial, time. It does work but be prepared for her coming at you with tons of questions, cuz she will notice. You have to be a good liar and non butthurt with your responses and willing to.go awhile without sex to regain frame.

I couldnt see it out although i did get further this time than any other. instead i.broke down and communicated overtly. Pretty much said your not in the mood bs is just that bs. What if i were to not be in the mood to work, be civil, or anything else that needs to be done for us. Got that from dennis prager. When i started breaking down how when she turns me down it pushes me further and further and i do have a breaking point, she listened, then compromised.

Its a delicate delicate thing. i believe a lot of it comes down to frame, your status, and keeping balance in YOUR life. Like, dont be up under her at all times, hang wirh your boys, give a **** less bout what she does at times and tell her no.

Still.trying.to.figure the rest out mate.

 

[Epimanes]

Well my wife and I have been absorbing marriedmansexlife.com and read all athols books together.. Love em.

For me.. Since learning to add more alpha (in a good way) taking charge more and being more of a captain for my family its has really upped my wifes attraction. She initiates now about once a week and will oblige anytime now that I need it. One of the turning points for us was in athols book "married man sex life primer" he stated how women absorb testosterone from semen and a bunch of other hormones through their vaginal wall..

My wife tested this theory... It was shark week (the week before she bleeds so she's all grouchy and ready to chew anyones head off) and she says to me "honey.. Let's test athols theory" so I said "ok, which one was that?". Next thing I know my wife is all over me and proceeds to jump me.. Use me.. **** my brains out and get nothing out of it for herself but my load. So I gave it to her and a little while later her PMS symptoms were gone. It lasted almost the rest of the day. So she did it again the next day.... Same thing. Semen kills PMS like within the hour.

Now during shark week leading up to bleeding.. My wife (although during this time she's not interested in her own orgasms) she just rapes me for my cvm to take the edge off her pms. (I don't reccomend cvmming in her if your not snipped unless you plan on getting pregnant).

And that's just it... Women need mens cvm to not feel bytchy that week. Since most of the time sex is casual for people on this forum they don't do that and bag it up.. No wonder so many women are all bytchy.. They don't realize their body agenda needs our load to balance out their wacked hormones.

Epi

Pm me if ya want a copy of the primer I will send you a link to download the pdf.

 

[Vulpine]

Well my wife and I have been absorbing marriedmansexlife.com and read all athols books together.. Love em.

Epimanes, thanks again for hooking me up with "married man sex primer", by the way. Good lookin' out!

I'd certainly recommend it to anyone for a "go to guide" for when you notice sex has dropped down to a trickle.

It surely made me "grab the reigns" and pay more attention to her cycles and I've been reacting to her "moods" very differently now.

I had a bit of a start when my gal got "distant", told me "you need to use a rubber", started hitting the gym, and started initiating "family future" sorts of conversations.

I quickly deposited a load in her aZZ for her (bypassed the typical spuzz delivery in the p¨ssy)... Then insisted she take a dose of "man medicine" via oral the next day. Afterwards I made her spill the beans. Turns out, she ƒucked up her pill schedule, feels unsexy with her winter weight, and wants to have my [healthy] babies.

Was it my loads that got her head straight? I'm not sure at this point, but I'm watching her. The signals, all at once, had rung alarm bells. Bad timing, I'm convinced, with the holidays and whatnot, but I know to stay vigilant. Sex was trickling, so she might have been fantasizing about "greener grass". I'm pretty sure I headed off any emotional decisions on her part. Words are words, though, so I'm on a "...but verify" trip as of late.

 

[Epimanes]

Good to hear man! Get the "mindful attraction plan" book too... Fvcking great read. Both are actually. Now I'm gunna buy that other one he has out something like "Do these jeans make me look fat?" Book.. I think that's it.. Can't remember exactly at the moment.. No matter.. His shyt is good and easy to read and digest.

 

[disgustipated]

Pm me please Epi, the primer pdf if you could. Thanks.

 

[Zunder]

I tell her everything. My policy is, if I have to start keeping my feelings from someone I love the most, i'll start keeping secrets. That's where the degeneration of the relationship starts.

You tell her everything huh

 

[ThunderMaverick]

Espi, I see your points and I think it's pretty solid advice. I think most of it would apply to me if I were unhappy with the relationship as a whole - I'm not. I'm actually VERY happy with her. She's extremely supportive, funny as hell, loving, very smart, grounded with good common sense. She has her moods of course (like all women do) but the relationship is definitely worth it. I'd be stupid to leave over something that can be worked out. Sex is very important to me, but so is everything else.

Vulpine, this is almost the exact situation you describe. Glad to know I'm not alone, having someone says "break up with her" when there's more too it.

My responses are in bold in your quotes:

It's funny you post this, as mai frau and I have noticed that both of us are not satisfied with a recent low volume of sex. That "once a week" sort of minimum just wasn't filling our needs, mutually.

We had a similar talk, in which we agreed that sex should be more. Of course, there was some speculation as to why we weren't. I quickly cut it off: "We aren't having more sex, because we aren't having more sex, it's THAT simple."

It's odd how having sex makes you want to have MORE sex, but at the core, that's all there is to it. You're still attracted to each other, still get along, aren't particularly un-horny... so why? Hormones. The more you ƒuck, the more of the hormones are flowing, the more you want to ƒuck more.

Life gets in the way, though. Stresses and energy levels get in the way. Often, we're just too tired to take 5 minutes before falling asleep. It seems silly, to both of us, that we'd fall in such a slump. But, it happens now and then.

So... how do you get motivated to have more sex?

Myself, I catch myself getting "aggressive" when I am hungry. Similarly, and I'm sure many of you guys can relate, I get easily angered when I have too large of a load built up. My patience just wears thin to non-existent. So I told her about what I'd like to see from her. I made it clear that I didn't want a bunch of fuss about how much of a "meanie" I might be at the time, what I really need is a blow job to take some pressure off. she is very understanding about that, asking me "what do you want me to do", but I feel like kind of a chump asking, like I should just take her and she should automatically get it. lol It doesn't work that way and if she's willing to listen and execute I should just be open about it

She understood, also, that she had part in the situation. I explained that she has no reason to hide her desire for sex from me: I already know she's a complete slut.

My slut.

I encouraged her to communicate when she needs vitamin D, or skip the chat and simply help herself to my medicine. This might be an excellent thing to communicate to her. I don't want her to think I'm hands on/off at certain times. She also does little subtle things to show that she wants to have sex, but sometimes they're TOO subtle for me. I should let her know if she has a strong desire to be more overt. She is a submissive, so sometimes I think she likes it better when I can read it.

The results? Well, we're on the same team, so there wasn't a big spectacle to describe as far as getting more sex goes. We still had life to work around, and quickly afterwards were hosting guests back-to-back for a couple weeks, so the results were delayed. Perhaps it was better that way to build up some anticipation, but after folks left and we had the house to ourselves again...

I was clearly irritable when she got home one night.
Frau: "Aww... sugar baby..." *steps up closer, puts one hand on chest* "You need some maintenance." *starts rubbing cºck through pants, kisses*

She has been doing well and initiated several times since. Myself, I have to approach it like a game. I'm a real sh¡thead, too. I'll get her riled up at work, then not let her know where I'm at when she gets home and I'm not there. Then, when I do get home and she makes no mention of sexual stuff, I'll start her up again with some grouping or grinding while she's at the stove or sink, some neck kissing... if she resists, I yank her pants down to her ankles





...and walk away.

She gets it.

I do that exact same thing once in a while, the EXACT same thing. Rubbing her, going under her shirt and then backing off for a bit so she kind of gets it. She does at points, but it doesn't work all the time. I also have to read her stress level of the day. Feels like a delicate balancing act.

To break the slump, simply keep thinking of fun ways to get each other worked up. I was actually about to e-mail her a picture of her underwear from last night (on the dresser this morning) when I found this post.
Goddamn she's right. I usually, most of the time just skip the foreplay. I mean sex is sex and it's good. But the anticipation, the build up, tension. I feel like I could be missing that.

She'll be sitting at work when she gets the picture (no text), and she'll spend the rest of her afternoon sitting in a puddle: she'll be recalling last night's session and those panties' involvement therein.

Will we be ƒucking like rabbits when she gets home? *shrug* Probably not... then again, I suspect she was planning on a thorough head session and I didn't let her suck it at all last night. *shrug* After this weekend, I'm not irritable in the slightest, and she's certainly not vitamin D deficient.
:rockon: To know and play those games though, it definitely keeps the fun of it all though. I mean that's foreplay all day. Good stuff.

I think the crucial element is that you both communicate and agree that the reason you aren't having more sex isn't because of "a thing", or you don't want more sex. Once the two of you both agree that more sex is desired, then you can work together as a team to "help each other out". Yes, sometimes I have to 'put out' when I'm not feeling particularly horny. So does she. Somehow we both end up having a good time, despite what we might have felt or what we thought at the beginning.

I'll say this in conclusion: we spend our time thinking of sh¡t we have to do like work, pay bills, traffic, price of gas... we think about a lot of d¡ck-limpening garbage. Take some time to think of your gal's püssy once in a while, smell your finger on the way to work the next morning, whatever gets you thinking of ƒucking your gal. It helps your libido, and indirectly, it helps you charge up you gal's libido, too. Think about having sex more, and you will. It's easier done than said, it really is.

I'll absolutely take this advice to heart and start applying it. Afterall we do have a lot of fun, even when we're put in a ****ty situation we still manage to make it fun. Sex shouldn't just be a stick in stick out deal. I've lost having fun with her sexually, in the way we BOTH should be having fun.


Thanks man!

 

[ThunderMaverick]

You tell her everything huh

lol Everything having to do with the relationship. Do I tell her my every fear and desire? Nope. Those are my inner issues to deal with.

 

[Zunder]

lol Everything having to do with the relationship. Do I tell her my every fear and desire? Nope. Those are my inner issues to deal with.

phew. Still, sometimes it must be hard to disassociate your fears and desires with relationship issues, and you might blurt some inner shyt out to her that you did not want to.
Anyway, go well.

 

[Kailex]

ThunderMaverick,

Seems like you are well on your way to a DeadBedroom. Just keep doing whatever you are doing if you want the frequency to decrease even more.

 

[Vulpine]

Vulpine, this is almost the exact situation you describe. Glad to know I'm not alone, having someone says "break up with her" when there's more too it.

No doubt. My chick would need to ƒuck around and go 180º to full-on retard to mess up what we got. Myself, all I need to do to "lose" her is quit paying attention. So long as I notice she's around, we're pretty solid. Neither of us wants to throw away a winning lottery ticket to go buy more tickets. Especially in this dating scene (we live in the boonies :nervous.

she is very understanding about that, asking me "what do you want me to do", but I feel like kind of a chump asking, like I should just take her and she should automatically get it. lol It doesn't work that way and if she's willing to listen and execute I should just be open about it

My slut.

I encouraged her to communicate when she needs vitamin D, or skip the chat and simply help herself to my medicine. This might be an excellent thing to communicate to her. I don't want her to think I'm hands on/off at certain times. She also does little subtle things to show that she wants to have sex, but sometimes they're TOO subtle for me. I should let her know if she has a strong desire to be more overt. She is a submissive, so sometimes I think she likes it better when I can read it.

I've lost having fun with her sexually, in the way we BOTH should be having fun.

That's just it... it's a two-way street. That's why you both need to come to some sort of understanding.

My gal is pretty demure, too. I wouldn't go so far as to say "submissive" though; she's a hard-head. I don't always catch her subtle hints, either. Hell, I don't even get some of the most blatant ƒuck-me invites. Most often, I found myself denying them, or second guessing what her hints mean...

V: "Naah... she's just goofin' around."

So, I took it upon myself to stop trying to guess. Instead, if I find her doing something that gets me thinking of screwing her, I just act. Well, I try to act, anyway. Sometimes I fizzle or lose my nerve, but it's not to be a big chore or bother anyway, there's no pressure.

Many times it's simply a look, a lip bite, or a hair twirl...

Her: "Wow! Where'd that come from?"
V: "I saw you... giving me 'the look'."
Her: "I was? I don't think I gave you 'the look'."
V: "You must not have seen it. I saw it."
Her: "NoooOooo... I'm pretty sure that I wasn't giving you any 'looks'."
V: "Either way, how about you shut up and give this a 'look'." *waving around 'ready for round two' wang*
Her: :d¡ckinmouth:

I'll accuse her of giving me looks, kissing me too long ("That's what you get!"), or even trying to pretend that she wasn't home early from work for the sole reason of having sex.

V: "Liar. You took off work early to rush home and hop on my cºck. You don't have to pretend. Here... get to hoppin', then, Miss Hornypants."

She plays around more, too, after we had our discussion.

Her: "OooOoooh, Vulpine, I just LOoooOOve the way you carry the wood in." (in a sing-song fake swooning girl voice)
V: *sets down wood, walks over and whips out cºck in her face* "And I just LOoooOOve what you do with it." (in a sing-song fake swooning girl voice)
Her: :d¡ckinmouthagain:

Getting her to be more filthy-overt has been fun. I told her: when you want some, just start getting me up. "What am I going to do? Not let you? Not give you some when you go through all that effort? I already know you're a slut, so go with it."

And, I bust on her when she's trying to hint: "Naw, that's not going to do it, you're going to have to be much dirtier than that before I'll think you actually want to get laid." "You call that dirty? Naughty, maybe. Dirty? Meh. *shrug*"

Definitely hook up with Epimanes about the "Married Man Sex Primer", it has lots of dynamics and examples to get you primed. It certainly helped me come to the realization that I have a vagina living in my house that can't get enough of my stuff and I can enjoy it, like simply flipping on the television, whenever I should have the notion.

With your gal, ThunderMaverick, definitely encourage her to help herself and be more aggressive, sooner than later. Tell her that YOU want her to be direct, dirty, and she can think of it as your "fantasy" if she wants. "I feel silly, though." Then you tell her to practice and it's all for fun anyway, so don't worry about it. Of course, the reinforcement stuff, too... "Oooh, now THAT's the dirty girl I want living with me." Good luck with it, Bro.

My gal is at her two-week point in her cycle this week... BOY is she going to get it when she gets home from her holiday party tonight.
:trouble:

Edit: Sorry, guys, like I said, she's at her two-week point. My hormones are crankin', just like hers. I re-read this and I don't mean to brag, I'm just throwing out examples. Please pardon the graphic content.

 

[Epimanes]

Fvck ya Vulpine! Glad the primer made a difference for you.

They didn't make the "map" (map = mindful attraction plan) book in pdf or I would share that too (its a book that helps you get your life on track to being as attractive as you can be and worth every penny).

Epi

 

[ThunderMaverick]

Omg PM me this primer lol

Thanks you guys for sharing your experiences. It's always nice to not be too much in my head and get grounded sometimes.

 

[Epimanes]

Hey.. Here also is a link to the mp3 file of a podcast. Hosted by art of charm with guest "Athol Kay" from married man sex life. Save it to your phone and listen on your commute. Its an easy listen and summarizes some of the primer.

http://www.datafilehost.com/d/fc384182

Epi

 

[Desdinova]

When I was married, I never bytched about sex or the lack of it. If I was getting a lack, then I just fvcked my hand. No biggie.

When you bring up the "why aren't we having more sex" talk, you lose. You've given her the ammunition she needs to control you. The more you make her realize you need sex, the more she's going to try and control you with it.

However, when you display that you really don't care if you fvck her or not, SHE will be the one bringing up the "why aren't we having more sex" talk. THAT is where you want her. You need to get her craving more.

If you want to have more sex without giving her power over you, you need to communicate it without being verbal. Bite her neck at random. Chase her around the house. pull up the back of her shirt while she's doing something and kiss it. Pick her up and carry her to a different part of the house just to suck on her tits, and then go do something else. Send her some dirty texts while you're in the same building. Don't give her exactly what you're craving, give her something that she'll crave and you'll get what you want.

 

[MOTU]

Guys, read this one carefully. Desi has hit the nail on the head. Me in bold


Quote:
Originally Posted by Desdinova
When I was married, I never bytched about sex or the lack of it. If I was getting a lack, then I just fvcked my hand. No biggie.At this point I am surprised and thinking "weak"

When you bring up the "why aren't we having more sex" talk, you lose. Now the lights come on.You've given her the ammunition she needs to control you. The more you make her realize you need sex, the more she's going to try and control you with it.Exactly Des. EXACTLY. Thanks for putting this out there. I am going through this exact thing right now, and I am 99% sure it is all about control. I was unsure of how to approach it - but you have nailed it. I kind knew this, but needed to hear it from someone else

However, when you display that you really don't care if you fvck her or not, SHE will be the one bringing up the "why aren't we having more sex" talk. THAT is where you want her. You need to get her craving more.To add to this, I am going to be quite a bit more scarce too. Let her mind do some work and spinning.

If you want to have more sex without giving her power over you, you need to communicate it without being verbal. Bite her neck at random. Chase her around the house. pull up the back of her shirt while she's doing something and kiss it. Pick her up and carry her to a different part of the house just to suck on her tits, and then go do something else. Send her some dirty texts while you're in the same building. Don't give her exactly what you're craving, give her something that she'll crave and you'll get what you want.

Doesn't that depend a little at where you are in your relationship overall? I would assume that if you are generally struggling for control (frame) than the "I want more sex" talk could signal weakness and may need to be avoided while you concentrate on dread game and other hamster food.

However, if your frame is good and the relationship is generally healthy, having a frank and open discussion might be helpful.

So I submit that if you can have a productive discussion on something like needing to spend less money on dining out, you can probably have a productive discussion on your sexual needs. If you can't, well, you can't.

That's always the tough part on the things we discuss on this board - so much of it is context sensitive and applying it one-size-fits-all can be dangerous or at least counter productive.

We don't see things as they are, we see things as we are.

 

[Vulpine]

If I was getting a lack, then I just fvcked my hand. No biggie.

You have a valid point, and I'm sure I'd play it more that way if I hadn't already established my expectations with her. See, in a conversation we had long ago, she started ranting about how stupid american b¡tches use sex as a weapon. In that context of the destructive dynamics of 'sex as a weapon', I made myself clear:

V: "You're certainly welcome to see if that game works with me. But, if I need to jerk off because you aren't putting out... then what the ƒuck would I bother keeping your ass around for? Faster than you could say 'sportƒuck', I'd hit up your fattest girlfriend for a blØwjob and be on the phone with your sister while getting it."
Her: "My SISTER?!!"
V: "Wanna play chess?"
Her: "No... But... I hear ya."

I stomp the sh¡t out of her at chess. It's a game she WILL NOT play with me; she feels very stupid afterwards. She ultimately understands that, if or when she acts, I will react. We had previous situations where I beat her over the head with her game, so I needed only allude to "playing games she'll lose".

It's a matter of congruence in my situation. And, she's not "gamey", so it's a matter of why the sex is dwindling. Surely, if it was a manipulation thing, I wouldn't give it merit by starting a conversation about it. You're right, if she had some agenda for withholding sex, no, I shouldn't "talk it out". I'd be groveling at the pedestal. But, if sex has just been less, and she generally can't get enough, then a "Hey, what's going on with your püssy these days? I haven't heard from her in a while." isn't a bad move.

I didn't specify which of us brought up the topic of how much sex we were having, but it was her, in a round-about way. We didn't have any arguments or disagreements leading up to anything, it was more of a "I wish we did it more on our road trip" and "I can't wait until we have the house to ourselves again" sort of hint-dropping lead up.

V: "So, you need more sexin' is what I'm hearing, huh?"
Her: :yes:
V: "Bullsh¡t. You still have your clothes on."

And, sure, I've rubbed some "recreational" ones out while with her. But, I could've saved them for a couple hours... if the rager would've subsided. I've never been left wanting for any remarkable length of time.

The original expectations included leaving sex "Switzerland". Sex is for good, never for evil, or it's done. We can be straight-up at war, but when it's sexin' time, we had better meet up in "no man's land" and sing "O Christmas Tree/O Tannenbaum".(See also: "Christmas Truce", WW1.)

Most guys here in "Mature Man" should have their relationships on "whenever I want some, I can take some" level anyway. Bottling up your needs/wants is certainly no good for a healthy relationship. If you had been ƒucking her and not your hand... well...

I'll STFU.

EDIT: Ooop... ^^^Master of the Universe articulated my ramblings better ^^^: It's a matter of the "frame". Sex should remain "unframed", neither should "control" sex: that's adversarial, and cause for banishment from my castle.

 

[ThunderMaverick]

You have a valid point, and I'm sure I'd play it more that way if I hadn't already established my expectations with her. See, in a conversation we had long ago, she started ranting about how stupid american b¡tches use sex as a weapon. In that context of the destructive dynamics of 'sex as a weapon', I made myself clear:

V: "You're certainly welcome to see if that game works with me. But, if I need to jerk off because you aren't putting out... then what the ƒuck would I bother keeping your ass around for? Faster than you could say 'sportƒuck', I'd hit up your fattest girlfriend for a blØwjob and be on the phone with your sister while getting it."
Her: "My SISTER?!!"
V: "Wanna play chess?"
Her: "No... But... I hear ya."

I stomp the sh¡t out of her at chess. It's a game she WILL NOT play with me; she feels very stupid afterwards. She ultimately understands that, if or when she acts, I will react. We had previous situations where I beat her over the head with her game, so I needed only allude to "playing games she'll lose".

It's a matter of congruence in my situation. And, she's not "gamey", so it's a matter of why the sex is dwindling. Surely, if it was a manipulation thing, I wouldn't give it merit by starting a conversation about it. You're right, if she had some agenda for withholding sex, no, I shouldn't "talk it out". I'd be groveling at the pedestal. But, if sex has just been less, and she generally can't get enough, then a "Hey, what's going on with your püssy these days? I haven't heard from her in a while." isn't a bad move.

I didn't specify which of us brought up the topic of how much sex we were having, but it was her, in a round-about way. We didn't have any arguments or disagreements leading up to anything, it was more of a "I wish we did it more on our road trip" and "I can't wait until we have the house to ourselves again" sort of hint-dropping lead up.

V: "So, you need more sexin' is what I'm hearing, huh?"
Her: :yes:
V: "Bullsh¡t. You still have your clothes on."

And, sure, I've rubbed some "recreational" ones out while with her. But, I could've saved them for a couple hours... if the rager would've subsided. I've never been left wanting for any remarkable length of time.

The original expectations included leaving sex "Switzerland". Sex is for good, never for evil, or it's done. We can be straight-up at war, but when it's sexin' time, we had better meet up in "no man's land" and sing "O Christmas Tree/O Tannenbaum".(See also: "Christmas Truce", WW1.)

Most guys here in "Mature Man" should have their relationships on "whenever I want some, I can take some" level anyway. Bottling up your needs/wants is certainly no good for a healthy relationship. If you had been ƒucking her and not your hand... well...

I'll STFU.

EDIT: Ooop... ^^^Master of the Universe articulated my ramblings better ^^^: It's a matter of the "frame". Sex should remain "unframed", neither should "control" sex: that's adversarial, and cause for banishment from my castle.

Yeah my girl isn't "gamey" either. We've been through that **** and on occasion we'll discuss past dating situations. I have such a great thing and dating was just such a ****ing chore. I don't like games and neither does she. I do agree with Des that too much overt communication can bring the attraction down, but again it's how you approach it. I think a mixup of confident communication and confident action is good. Like you were talking about, too much lack of communication and it'll confuse someone who doesn't play games and has trust in you. She'll smell the phoney on me in a heartbeat. I'm the same way as well. That's why we work so good together. Control sex has never and WOULD never factor in the relationship with either of us. It's a form of abuse and we both understand this. Neither one of us would put up with it.

I never came off whiney, and tried to be more understanding of her side. We had sex this morning, last night and the night before lol and my whole approach was different. It's always fun, but this time it was a bit more different.

I should always be trying to find new, fun approaches. I'm just glad I'm a bit more perceptive of changes than I was years ago. My last relationship wouldn't have ended so badly, I mean good riddance, but I wouldn't have been so blindsided.