Senator Palpatine from Star Wars

rakishness

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Anyone who is a fan of Robert Greene and his books should absolutely love Senator Palpatine from Star wars. Honestly....I never really cared much for the star wars films before. I never understood what all the hype was about. But...now I have a new appreciation for those films. Especially Senator Palpatine.

Even though he is supposed to be an "evil" character. The man had some very positive traits. What I love most about the character was his self control. His patience....the way he could plan and patiently bring his plans to fruition. He was a man of vision.....with tremendous foresight. Robert Greene talks about these types in his books...he calls them GRAND STRATEGISTS.

Palpatine followed so many laws of power.....Master the art of timing.....Plan all the way to the end......When asking for help appeal to peoples self interest.....Enter action with boldness..etc etc.

It's hard to to stay focused on your main goal. Palpatine always kept his cool. He had an uncanny sense timing. He new when to act and when to stay calm and step back.

Greene talks about the two sides of human nature. The rational and animal part. The problem is that it is hard to control the animal part(which is strongest). I admire people who can control their animal nature and think rationally. People who can control their emotions and keep their cool. Those who stay patient.

Here is a quote from Greenes 33 strategies book.

"Thousands of years ago, we humans elevated ourselves above the animal world and never looked back. Figuratively speaking, the key to this evolutionary advance was our powers of vision: language, and the ability to reason that it gave us, let us see more of the world around us. To protect itself from a predator, an animal depended on it senses and instincts; it could not see around the corner or to the other end of the forest. We humans, on the other hand, could map the entire forest, study the habits of dangerous animals and even nature itself, gaining deeper, wider knowledge of our environment. We could see dangers coming before they were here. This expanded vision was abstract: where an animal is locked in the present, we could see into the past and glimpse as far as our reason would take us into the future. Our sight expanded further and further into time and space, and we came to dominate the world.
Somewhere along the line, however, we stopped evolving as rational creatures. Despite our progress there is always a part of us that remains animal, and that animal part can respond only to what is most immediate in our environment—it is incapable of thinking beyond the moment. The dilemma affects us still: the two sides of our character, rational and animal, are constantly at war, making almost all of our actions awkward"
 

sifer

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He was evil.

Why not admire the Jedi Knights?

They too have the qualities you brought up.
 

rakishness

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The only problem with the Jedi Knights is that they ONLY follow the light side of the force. The Sith use both. Thats why Palpatine was so great. He could be as patient as yoda...end then at the right MOMENT...use his emotions to slaughter jedi.
The jedi accept suffering while the Sith try to prevent it. The Jedi are too passive. Sometimes when your weak it is good to surrender and accept a defeat(or suffering). To me thats type of attitude doesn't get anything done. What if the allies in WW2 decided to just be passive and let the Nazis take over Europe?? Exactly...surrender is only acceptable when you plan a counter attack.

The Jedi are afraid of the dark side while the Sith are not. Thats why the sith are more powerful.

But don't get me wrong I do admire the Jedi. Patience is a virtue of the light side of the force. Also selflessness and the pursuit of PEACE and JUSTICE.
 

sifer

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rakishness said:
The only problem with the Jedi Knights is that they ONLY follow the light side of the force. The Sith use both. Thats why Palpatine was so great. He could be as patient as yoda...end then at the right MOMENT...use his emotions to slaughter jedi.
The jedi accept suffering while the Sith try to prevent it. The Jedi are too passive. Sometimes when your weak it is good to surrender and accept a defeat(or suffering). To me thats type of attitude doesn't get anything done. What if the allies in WW2 decided to just be passive and let the Nazis take over Europe?? Exactly...surrender is only acceptable when you plan a counter attack.

The Jedi are afraid of the dark side while the Sith are not. Thats why the sith are more powerful.

But don't get me wrong I do admire the Jedi. Patience is a virtue of the light side of the force. Also selflessness and the pursuit of PEACE and JUSTICE.
Comparing World War 2 to a trilogy movie is extreme. You might want to think your role model.

The Jedi Knights try to be good because it helps maintain the balance with the evil on Sith's side. That much I know. The Jedi do not use Sith's power because it corrupts.

As for using both, when was the last time Palpatine used the light to help others or even himself?
 

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Quote taken from The SoSuave Guide to Women and Dating, which you can read for FREE.

KarmaSutra

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Fvck that. Darth Any-won is far superior to any wussbag Qui-Gon or Obi-won!

Palpatine had an agenda from the very beginning. To gain control but have peace and harmony while relegating that power to his brethren, the Sith.
 

armadon

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whatever. everyone knows han solo is the **** since he didnt need the force to get things done.
 

KarmaSutra

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armadon said:
whatever. everyone knows han solo is the **** since he didnt need the force to get things done.
As far as I know he was the only one of the group to get blasted with carbonite like a li'l b!tch then handed over to Boba Fett.

Although he is BY FAR the coolest cat in the Star Wars universe.
 

rakishness

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sifer said:
Comparing World War 2 to a trilogy movie is extreme. You might want to think your role model.
I'm not really. I'm just saying that being passive is not always a good thing. In fact most of the time it is not. As we all know...as MAN..being passive hurts you in so many ways....with women...in your career and even in your relationships with others. Being passive is not a "good" trait.

sifer said:
The Jedi Knights try to be good because it helps maintain the balance with the evil on Sith's side. That much I know. The Jedi do not use Sith's power because it corrupts.
One of the most insightful lines from ROTS was when palpatine was talking to anakin at the opera. And he said this.."The Sith and the Jedi are similar in almost every way, including their quest for greater power." There is so much meaning in that quote it is unreal.

sifer said:
As for using both, when was the last time Palpatine used the light to help others or even himself?
Palpatine used patience(virtue of the lightside) to completely destroy the Jedi Order and rule the galaxy. It didn't help others but it helped himself. Patience was KEY for Palpatine.
 

Yotsuya-san

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rakishness said:
I'm not really. I'm just saying that being passive is not always a good thing. In fact most of the time it is not. As we all know...as MAN..being passive hurts you in so many ways....with women...in your career and even in your relationships with others. Being passive is not a "good" trait.

One of the most insightful lines from ROTS was when palpatine was talking to anakin at the opera. And he said this.."The Sith and the Jedi are similar in almost every way, including their quest for greater power." There is so much meaning in that quote it is unreal.


Palpatine used patience(virtue of the lightside) to completely destroy the Jedi Order and rule the galaxy. It didn't help others but it helped himself. Patience was KEY for Palpatine.
Palpatine was cool and calm because he wasn't bound by the limitations of what the good guys can and can't do. Being a bad guy may seem like fun in the movies. Actually, most actors who play them are noticeably having fun with it usually at the cost of upstaging the poor hero. I think being the good guy is more challenging because there are these boundaries that you can't cross, even if it means that you come off as dull and predictable. I do like it when the good guys do who do cross that line do so at a great cost, usually psychologically.
 

rakishness

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"Darth Sidious possessed a superior intellect, had a cunning understanding of the human mind, and was skilled in the use of the Force in foreseeing the future, so he could manipulate events as though he were a dejarik grandmaster moving pieces on a board. Therefore, he had a penchant for complicated schemes, and such was his patience that he could wait years to see them come into fruition. Sidious had a broad expertise in areas such as psychology, bureaucracy, and philosophy."
http://members.shaw.ca/david.p.z.888/star_wars/palpatine.html
 

Falcon

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Palpatine is your cookie-cutter dictator. Everything is a power struggle. His grotesque face symbolizes the corrupting nature of his mindset. People like Palpatine are never loved, only feared. In the end, he was betrayed by his most loyal servant because of that.

There was another movie that I just recently watched that covered the same topic of being feared or loved- A Bronx Tale.

Anyway, the traits that the OP mentioned are more traits of jedi. Things like patience, self-control, using your mind (over emotion). I never thought of the jedi philosophy as passive. It's just more on self-defense and staying calm.

good thread
 

BluEyes

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Is it 7:00AM again, or...is that my geek alarm going off?

Honestly, star wars was a great series, but don't go analyzing it for role models...
 

rakishness

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LUKE: Is the dark side stronger?

YODA: No...no...no. Quicker, easier, more seductive.

LUKE: But how am I to know the good side from the bad?

YODA: You will know. When you are calm, at peace,
passive. -Episode V

You see...it's easier to give into anger and hatred. It is much more difficult to stay calm and patient. I think thats what Lucas was trying to get at here.

I think you need more of a BALANCE. You can't be passive all the time...You can't be aggressive all the time. It's all about TIMING. And thats why I love palpatine because he mastered that art.

In the last chapter of the 48 laws of power...Assume Formlessness. Greene says that everything has form... but the powerful have the form...of WATER. I think he means that the powerful are able to adapt just like water. Water is the most adaptive substance on the planet.

In fact Sun Tzu(who influenced R. Greene) the author of the art of war ...proclaims the same thing. I found this on another site

"When Sun-tzu says to be like water, he doesn't imply that water itself is formless (it must have form in order for us to recognize it as water, to call it a definitive creature called water). He is implying that water changes its form continuously. It always adapts to other forms. It is responsive and passive, yet resistive and aggressive. And it incorporates all these forms at different times"

Thats why Palpatine was so great. He was able to adapt to the circumstances. He was a true power player.
 

sifer

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I think thats what Lucas was trying to get at here.
Lucas said in an interview with the TIME magazine and in other interviews that Star Wars is for children and intended as such for children.

I think you need more of a BALANCE. You can't be passive all the time...You can't be aggressive all the time. It's all about TIMING. And thats why I love palpatine because he mastered that art.
This quote doesn't make too much sense. You're jumping from one topic to another.

Balance is not timing. Noone said anything about being aggressive all the time. I even said earlier that the Jedi Knights are there to fill the balance gap. Palpatine is great at timing executions, so are other Jedi Knights.

You're analyzing this too much for a movie that's meant to be enjoyed.

How old are you?
 

Nighthawk

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R2 is the alpha of the group. Watch the films again, he was two moves ahead of Palpatine from the start.

Remember when Luke nearly buys the 'wrong' R2 unit, which 'fortunately' explodes right on cue. No accident.
 
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