Seducing a woman who recently broke off her engagement

[The Grue]

I met a lady(Denise, 27) about 3 weeks ago.
Quite beautiful, nice personality and friendly.
She does some freelance work for me and we see each other 3 times a week or so.
During the first two weeks, she seems like a person I'd like to date so....
At the end of the 2nd week, I set up coffee with her to talk a bit of business but also to get to know her a little better. She quickly accepts and we go to a local cafe.
During the course of coffee, she seems single but seems more oriented towards getting married/starting a family.
I am not negative to such prospects but try to be vague on the issue...
Fast forward to last Friday(week 3).
I ask her out to dinner for Saturday night and she eagerly accepts.
On Saturday, I pick her up at her place and we go to a nice Chinese restaurant(she was dressed Ok but I would have expected something better for a dinner date on a Saturday night...).
Anyway, during dinner we discuss lots of stuff about ourselves and I suggest we go elsewhere for dessert.
She agrees, but says she would be staying over at a friends house(female friend) because they would be going to a function early Sunday morning.
At around 12 she gets an SMS. At 12:20 we were leaving to go for dessert when she asks if we could cancel because she doesn't want to go to her friend's very late.
I say Ok, but smelled a rat!
On the way to her home, I talk about relationships and stuff and she says that she was engaged until a month ago!
I am shocked by this and ask her what happened.
She says their respective families destroyed it for them but does not elaborate. I ask her if she is single and she adds that things are mixed up because she has bought an apartment with her ex-fiance...
Anyway, I ask about us dating and she says that it would be best if I let her propose our next outing when she felt up to it....which struck me as a brush-off.
A few days later, I was thinking about the situation and invited her to my place for coffee to clear things up.
She comes and she explains that she broke up with her ex-fiance when their families started fighting about where the marriage would take place!
I felt this was nuts and told her so...she agreed.
Then I got to thinking that maybe the ex-fiance just used this excuse as a reason to break up with her....because she stated that she wanted to be with him....
Anyway, I started laying it on thick...and telling her all sorts of stuff. I also start holding her hands, letting go and picking up again. I also stroke her hair from time to time.
I told her that hings with her ex-fiance can never be the same...and that she has feelings for me...otherwise she wouldn't be here with me holding hands!
She agrees that she has feelings but is confused and feels she shouldn't see me while still so mixed up.
I don't agree or disagree to anything...rather I'm looking into her the eyes and trying to connect with her....

She then says that her ex-fiance is returning from a trip next week and she wants to sort things out...
I avoid talking about him and just assure her that I am here...

So, as you understand I like this woman and am trying to seduce her.
I understand she still has feelings for her ex-fiance but I am trying to get him out of the way.
I am not sure he even wants to be with her! I think the family "fight" was staged because he wanted to get out of the wedding with her.
Sorry for such a long post...
As always, I would appreciate all advice DJ's can offer about how i should proceed in my seduction!

 

[Desdinova]

Seduction does not consist of talking about her ex. Seduction consists of being more attractive than her ex!

I told her that hings with her ex-fiance can never be the same...and that she has feelings for me...otherwise she wouldn't be here with me holding hands!

This isn't very seductive. It's her job, not yours, to sort out how she feels and who she feels attraction for. You can dictate how she thinks, but this is not seduction. If anything, she may eventually feel resentment toward you.

Quit focussing on discrediting her ex, and focus on being more attractive than him.

 

[trent81]

She is on the rebound, you will never get anywhere with her. You may sleep with her a couple times and that's it. Stop trying to go for emotionally unavailable women.

 

[trent81]

You can't seduce a woman who is in love with another man. Don't waste your time. You are a rebound. She is holding hands with you but she loves him. She has NO FEELINGS for you. She can't. She loves someone else. Step aside and let her sort her stuff out. She will come back once she is "over" him.

 

[Desdinova]

You can't seduce a woman who is in love with another man.

I highly disagree. You CAN seduce a woman who loves another guy if you can be more interesting, fun, and exciting than that guy. Also, if you can figure out what the other guy isn't giving her, that's a plus for you.

However, if your idea is to seduce women by "seeing how things go", they won't go the way you want them to.

 

[The Grue]

First off, she is a woman I like and want to get to know and have sex with....
Am I a rebound? Maybe...
Is she still in love? Probably...

Regardless, I still need to do my thing with this lady. The way I see it, they didn't break up over the marriage venue...that was just the excuse.
They broke up because one of them didn't want to go ahead(it was probably him...).

I understand the difficulties of the situation.

Still,I don't believe in "letting her sort things out". The way I see it(and in accordance with rules of the forum), a DJ goes after the women he wants.
As long as the woman doesn't have a serious relationship such as a marriage, she is free game.

I agree with Desdinova's statement that I have to work on creating more attraction and that's what I will try to do.

 

[trent81]

First off, she is a woman I like and want to get to know and have sex with....
Am I a rebound? Maybe...
Is she still in love? Probably...

Regardless, I still need to do my thing with this lady. The way I see it, they didn't break up over the marriage venue...that was just the excuse.
They broke up because one of them didn't want to go ahead(it was probably him...).

I understand the difficulties of the situation.

Still,I don't believe in "letting her sort things out". The way I see it(and in accordance with rules of the forum), a DJ goes after the women he wants.
As long as the woman doesn't have a serious relationship such as a marriage, she is free game.

I agree with Desdinova's statement that I have to work on creating more attraction and that's what I will try to do.

You are about to learn one of life's hard lessons. You are about to find out that a woman who is emotionally unavailable will break your heart. You will sleep with her, but you will come back here in a few weeks and ask us "what happened?". Why did you ask this question if you already knew the answer to it? Desdinova is completely wrong on this. I have done this three times, so have my friends, it NEVER works. When a woman is on the rebound (from a fuvking engagement for fubks sake!), your chances are ZERO. Good Luck. Things will be great for awhile, but she will drop you in a heartbeat if he comes back. A man understands that some women are emotionally unavailable, and unless you are just looking for sex, you should know that this is a waste of time. This is a waste of my time. Good luck once again. I cannot believe that as a 38 yr old man you wouldn't see how this would be a tremendous negative experience in your life. Have you not done this before? You are asking for hurt.

 

[The Grue]

Trent, you could be right, I mean your points have their validity.
But nothing ventured, nothing gained.
What do I really have to lose here?
At 38, I get attached to and detached from women quite easily. At the moment, I am dating another lady and having sex with her, so I can approach Denise knowing I have options.
I am out to seduce this woman, have sex with her and generally, make sure we both have a good time.
And I enjoy making the effort of seducing her, It adds spice to the whole experience.
Will I develop feelings for her. Maybe?
But that's OK, its part and parcel of the process.

As for the rebound process, is it right for people to blindly adhere to behavioral stereotypes?
I think the "rebound" thing is not written in stone. In fact, I am certain many "rebounds" may actually convert into buckets and points....
Yes, I may be the rebound guy and not last long...then again I may be getting rid of her after sex because it didn't do it for me...

What I am saying is that you can't know these things with certainty in advance!
Which is why my question is not whether what I am doing is right or not.
I have made my decision.

My question concerned methods to proceed with this seduction and increasing attraction!


In any case, thanks for your input. I always appreciate time a fellow DJer takes to answer!

 

[Jitterbug]

I highly disagree. You CAN seduce a woman who loves another guy if you can be more interesting, fun, and exciting than that guy. Also, if you can figure out what the other guy isn't giving her, that's a plus for you.

It's possible to seduce & sleep with a woman who loves another guy. I've done that 4 times already. It's always a short fling though. Pointless to take it any further. I tried that once and it was a really dumb idea.

I don't think a pump & dump is really what The Grue is after, from the way he approached this.

If you want to get a woman on the rebound to rebound off your c0ck and not your shoulder, you gotta stop with the ex talk and wanna-be shrink BS. Focus on being a fun sexual guy for the night/weekend and let her use you to temporarily forget about him. It's not too hard as she's emotionally vulnerable.

As for the rebound process, is it right for people to blindly adhere to behavioral stereotypes?
I think the "rebound" thing is not written in stone. In fact, I am certain many "rebounds" may actually convert into buckets and points....

Personally I don't know any guy who has had a successful or good relationship with a woman that he caught on the rebound. Anyone here knows of an example?

 

[Desdinova]

It's possible to seduce & sleep with a woman who loves another guy. I've done that 4 times already. It's always a short fling though. Pointless to take it any further. I tried that once and it was a really dumb idea.

Agreed. The problem I find is that the woman doesn't completely let go of the other guy. She keeps him as a safety backup. Many of us have been on that side of the fence in our AFC days. It's a bit odd being on the other side of the fence now.

I have to agree that The Grue should NOT hope for a long-lasting relationship out of this. He may get a few dates, get laid, but this woman is rebounding. Her bucket of emotions is spilling all over the place, and he's just there to help her clean up the mess.

 

[The Muscle Expert]

Women on the rebound are my bread and butter.

Send her my way, after I f*ck her good a couple times and she starts pressuring me for a relationship, I'll send her your way.

 

[The Grue]

Yeah, that's exactly what I'll do! Great advice!

Just what I was looking for when I posted the thread!

(I think somebody's been spiking your protein shakes...)

 

[Gangster Of Love]

I met a lady(Denise, 27) about 3 weeks ago.
Quite beautiful, nice personality and friendly.
She does some freelance work for me and we see each other 3 times a week or so.
During the first two weeks, she seems like a person I'd like to date so....

You two have a professional relationship. Strictly professional from her end, at least initially.

At the end of the 2nd week, I set up coffee with her to talk a bit of business but also to get to know her a little better. She quickly accepts and we go to a local cafe.

She quickly accepts as she is still thinking it is a professional meeting, as you two are talking business.

During the course of coffee, she seems single but seems more oriented towards getting married/starting a family.
I am not negative to such prospects but try to be vague on the issue...

You don't know if she's single or not, and since you are not inquiring and just listening to her ramble, like a GIRLfriend would, she doesn't think anything about it, is not guarded and tells you how she sees things, without any regard to how you feel about; after all, you are just a "business acquaintance".

Fast forward to last Friday(week 3).
I ask her out to dinner for Saturday night and she eagerly accepts.
On Saturday, I pick her up at her place and we go to a nice Chinese restaurant(she was dressed Ok but I would have expected something better for a dinner date on a Saturday night...).

She eagerly accepts because she is not seeing you as the "sexual thread" of a man, but more of somebody who's willing to listen, and up to that point, hasn't made any kind of serious or agressive move on her. Plus she had nothing planned. What better than to hang out with her new platonic friend?

Would you have gotten all dressed up to go eat Chinese food with one of your guy friends? She wasn't looking at it as a "dinner date".

Anyway, during dinner we discuss lots of stuff about ourselves and I suggest we go elsewhere for dessert.
She agrees, but says she would be staying over at a friends house(female friend) because they would be going to a function early Sunday morning.

What were you telling her about yourself? At this point, discussin lots of stuff can't be any good. The more you talk, the more of an opportunity to start blowing your own horn and the less of a mystery you become to a woman who is already looking at you as a platonic friend.

When you suggested dessert, she is finally realizing you are interested in her as more than friends and are starting to grasp and somewhat communicate you want to spend more time with her, non-business related. So she "warns" you that she will not be staying up late with you, as it is already too late on the clock for two platonic friends to be hanging out on a saturday night, so she has things to do. She took the frame you should have right after dinner. She's the one who wants to cut the evening short and has things to do.

At around 12 she gets an SMS. At 12:20 we were leaving to go for dessert when she asks if we could cancel because she doesn't want to go to her friend's very late.
I say Ok, but smelled a rat!

You are finally realizing she is pulling back. She realizes the clock is saying "romantic/sexual time" at 12:20am.

On the way to her home, I talk about relationships and stuff and she says that she was engaged until a month ago!
I am shocked by this and ask her what happened.
She says their respective families destroyed it for them but does not elaborate.

Why the need to keep TALKING about personal stuff, specially RELATIONSHIP stuff? But ok, she reveals some info.

The story itself sounds like very vague and hard to believe, and you are already on your way to becoming the human Cotex.

I ask her if she is single and she adds that things are mixed up because she has bought an apartment with her ex-fiance...

FINALLY! You finally ask her if she's single. You could have saved a lot of time and money had you found this out way before. You didn't know she was single, so you treated her in a casual, platonic way, and she went along for the ride.

Anyway, I ask about us dating and she says that it would be best if I let her propose our next outing when she felt up to it....which struck me as a brush-off.

NEVER ASK about stuff like "us dating" etc. You don't ask, you just do, you just date. Asking her to date you just confirmed her suspicions about you having your "hidden romantic agenda".

The best way to have made a statement there would have been to kiss her. At least if she refuses, you know for sure it was a brush off.

And yes, it was a brush off.

A few days later, I was thinking about the situation and invited her to my place for coffee to clear things up.

You keep beating a dead horse. There is nothing you have to gain with this need to keep talking about it, clarifying and claring things up. She pretty much gave you the "don't call me, I'll call you" brush off. But now, the guy who's created some obligation by courting her and spending money on her, and who pays her for work, wants to have yet another "heart to heart".

She comes and she explains that she broke up with her ex-fiance when their families started fighting about where the marriage would take place!
I felt this was nuts and told her so...she agreed.

The fighting over location was just the icing on the cake. If true, they had a lot of issues between them two, add the family getting involved, you have the perfect excuse or reason to not want to get married.

Then I got to thinking that maybe the ex-fiance just used this excuse as a reason to break up with her....because she stated that she wanted to be with him....

Perhaps. Maybe not. Irrelevant. The only thing that is relevant is that she wants to be with him.

Anyway, I started laying it on thick...and telling her all sorts of stuff. I also start holding her hands, letting go and picking up again. I also stroke her hair from time to time.
I told her that hings with her ex-fiance can never be the same...and that she has feelings for me...otherwise she wouldn't be here with me holding hands!

Laying it thick? You mean, you handn't already with all those "talks"?

Did you kiss her while you were doing the on and off touching?

No escalating physically, and a trip into a logical discussion about her, the fiance, and you.

First of all, that girls is a mess and confused about her situation with her man.

She agrees that she has feelings but is confused and feels she shouldn't see me while still so mixed up.
I don't agree or disagree to anything...rather I'm looking into her the eyes and trying to connect with her....

If anything, she might have feelings of affection towards you, not feelings of attraction. She knows she must end contact with you, as you are about to keep "laying it thick". Time to look for someone new to do your freelance.

She then says that her ex-fiance is returning from a trip next week and she wants to sort things out...
I avoid talking about him and just assure her that I am here...

Off course she wants to make it work. Getting romantically involved was never part of the plan.

You avoided talking about him, good. You have already spend too much time talking about their situation. You reassured her that you are still there to hear any of her ramblings and problems. At least that's what she's hearing when a guy who's just been rejected doesn't get it and still sticks around.

So, as you understand I like this woman and am trying to seduce her.

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaah. You finally admit to everyone what your initial agenda was all along.

Why didn't you start there from the beginning? Trying to seduce her from the start. That is the only chance you had with her. Obviously, she wasn't/isn't looking for a new relationship.

Instead you invited her to dinner and tried to seducer her by courting her, while not escalating. When that didn't work, you TALKED to her about dating. Now you are interested in "seducing her".

I understand she still has feelings for her ex-fiance but I am trying to get him out of the way.

Hire a hit man or something. I mean, really, she's the only one who can get him out of the way. That will take a long time. Not worth it.

I am not sure he even wants to be with her! I think the family "fight" was staged because he wanted to get out of the wedding with her.

Irrelevant. The only thing that matters is that SHE wants to be with HIM, and doesn't want to be with YOU at this time.

Sorry for such a long post...
As always, I would appreciate all advice DJ's can offer about how i should proceed in my seduction!

There is no "seduction!" here. You went about it all it the wrong sequence. Got off to a bad start by being platonic/professional, while you wanted to court her. You took her out on dates, while she didn't look at them as dates. You had the TALKS, while all along you wanted to get in her pants.

EJECT. Reset. Time to start all over with someone else. Stay away from her. You are digging yourself more into the hole and become more assexual in her eyes, each time you offer your support, understanding, and generosity with your time, money and attention.

 

[trent81]

That's a great post by Gangster. If the goal is sex, you will get sex easy with this woman, but this guy went about it all wrong. If the goal is relationship, it will NEVER happen with this girl. Good job Gangster.

 

[Gangster Of Love]

That's a great post by Gangster. If the goal is sex, you will get sex easy with this woman, but this guy went about it all wrong. If the goal is relationship, it will NEVER happen with this girl. Good job Gangster.

Thanks trentster.

Yes, somebody else who knows what he is doing will definitely have a very good chance to get his weener wet and have a fun fling with this one. Unfortunately that somebody is not the creator of this thread.

In a sense, both you and Des are right. It is possible to seduce these type of women, but they are not good for a LTR and only someone who goes about the right way can pull it off. The OP really went all out to pour it heavy on that "courting" type of dating things that almost any other man who hasn't already screwed it up so bad, has a better chance starting from scratch and going about with the right frame.

 

[Gangster Of Love]

Yeah, that's exactly what I'll do! Great advice!

Just what I was looking for when I posted the thread!

(I think somebody's been spiking your protein shakes...)

Grue, brother, I hate to say it, but that plan has a better chance of landing you this one girl than any of the things you've done to dig yourself deep into that dark hole you're in.

You're gonna do what you want to do anyway, so tell me, exactly, how do you plan on going about this seduction from this point on? What are you doing next? How are you going to get in this girl's pants? Share your business (seduction) plan.

 

[The Grue]

Well, I have to admit that you give a hell of an analysis of the situation Gangster!

I find myself agreeing with many of your points and realizing their is truth in them.
She did not dress up for a Saturday night dinner date because,as you said, she was not looking for a new relationship.
In other cases, I have had women dress up for much minor events because they did view them as "date".

I have always tried to judge women by their actions, and she herself acknowledged that she knew I was interested in more when accepting the Saturday date.
So I didn't really "surprise" her as you say...
She already knew that it was not platonic.
(By the way, she never offered to pay half of the bill, not that I would have accepted since I had asked her out...)

In any case, your post has helped me understand many of the difficulties of the situation.

This woman is not available. She is still invested in her ex and is not looking for someone new.
She did refuse to go out with me until she "clears up the situation with him".
If the attraction was strong, she would just date me and not worry about her ex-fiance that much.

With all this in mind, I need to change a course of action.
Our business relationship is minor, but there is no reason to destroy it.

Thus, I will just drop the matter and not ask her out.

I guess I must now formulate some way of covering the matter up.....

 

[jophil28]

She did not dress up for a Saturday night dinner date because,as you said, she was not looking for a new relationship.
In other cases, I have had women dress up for much minor events because they did view them as "date".

Yes, her underdressing was her way of telling you that she was not interested in being courted into whatever she KNEW that you had in mind.
A woman who has a similar IL in you as you do in her, will demonstrate that interest in a variety of ways. A high IL woman will usually contribute to the date at a level which is unmistakeable.
WE have all been on dates with women who are "dragging the chain".. they are sullen or distant or difficult or argumentative or and just plain awful. Many times their low IL is expressed in very covert ways- like underdressing !


Secondly, women who are Category 1( women who are separated, divorced or broken up for less that one year) are notorious for seeking ego reinflation and validation from the men that they date. It is your job to "fun" them only, WITHOUT EXPECTATIONS. They will flirt and offer slivers of hope of sex to keep you on their hook BUT ultimately you will be used and discarded when that BBD comes along who resembles her Ex.

 

[trent81]

Grue,

I'm speaking from the heart here. IF your goal is just sex, then go for it. Just go out for drinks and she will have sex with you. But, DO NOT develop feelings for a woman who is in love with another man. NEVER works. I got my heart broken a year ago from a woman that said she was getting divorced, never did. Try to stay away from women on the REBOUND. I would give anything not to ever meet that married woman I had. It's not worth it. Try for truly single girls, they are never truly single, but at least they are not coming off of engagements and almost marriages. You may get your heartbroken, it may lead to bitterness, resentment, you may get jaded. Is it worth it? But, if your mind is made up that "you just want sex" and nothing else, then NEVER talk about these things, take her out for drinks, show her a good time and she will fuvk you. Just be the dude that's "there if you need an orgasm", not the dude "that will mend your hurt feelings". Good luck. The problem here is; sometimes men too get attached to women after having sex with them ,especially if they are really hot and good in bed. If you get attached, you are finished. She is emotionally unavailable, it took me over 15 yrs of experience to understand that it NEVER works with this type of women.

 

[Gangster Of Love]

Grue,

Don't pursue her just for sex. Your foundation for this relationship was already build in the sand. You have very little chance to none to sex this one. Now if you find yourself in a similar situation with a different woman, you can approach and execute in a specific way, and get sex out of it.

If you actually want to eject with some dignity in tact, just repair any damage you have already done and hope to keep it platonic; if that is important to you. If you absolutely don't care about any of that and just want sex, then you can shoot for a hail mary.