Scientific studies on masculinity in facial attractiveness

[viking22]

One of my breaktrhoughs a few years ago was convincing myself that looks did not matter and I was able to have moderate success with women based on developing my confidence and charm.

However I've seen a few scientific studies which argue that for short term relationships women prefer men with masculine, dominant features such as square jaws, a prominent brow and small eyes as these are indicators of high testosterone levels. Moreover the more beautiful the woman the more likely she is prepared to risk embarking on a relationship with a macho guy like this.

Im 25 now and as I age Im less cute as my hair is now thinning and Im getting a few lines and wrinkles. But I still have a baby face and soft features. Ive found the only girls who are attracted to that sort of face are the 5s, 6s, and occasionally 8s. I feel girls automatically assume Im a nice guy or harmless because of the way I look and while that is useful in the sense girls immediately feel safe and comfortable with me, Im striking out with all the beautiful girls.

Looking around I see that although you sometimes see beautiful girls with soft looking guys in relationships you rarely see them going home with these sort of guys in bars and clubs. Then I see the way my female friends lust over the guys with the square jaws and macho looks.

So because of this Ive been getting quite depressed. Looks clearly do matter and Im worried I will never achieve my dream of dating lots of beautiful women.

 

[trv26]

Facial attractivenes and height are unfortunately two things that can't be changed (unless u're willing to undergo facial surgery). A nice beard can help give you a slightly more masculine look however. Also, how tall are you btw? An above average height opens a few doors by itself

 

[Alle_Gory]

Looks clearly do matter and Im worried I will never achieve my dream of dating lots of beautiful women.

Everything matters. All the time. Sometimes less, sometimes more. It depends.

You focus way too much on looks. If you didn't have looks would you still at least talk to women? Would you flirt with them? Would you feel comfortable seducing them?



BTW, if the whole square jaw and macho looks is important for you to feel adequate to yourself then get in shape. Its great. People respect you more, and take you more seriously.

 

[bukowski_merit]

on picture rating sites - on average - i get around a 5.25 (i've been as low as a 3 depending on the audience of the site)...

i have mixed features (strong "masculine" jawline, really fat cheeks, butt-chin, uni-brow, thinning hairline, and strong body structure(that anyone can get from working out/diet.))

i NEVER expect to attract a woman with my looks, but i never have a problem attracting women. mostly with wit, confidence, and sexual energy... and when i say confidence - it's not in my looks, it's in my ability to turn them on through words...

simple as that...

One of my breaktrhoughs a few years ago was convincing myself that looks did not matter and I was able to have moderate success with women based on developing my confidence and charm.

This is good... but it almost sounds like you stopped developing. I too had to get through this, and have never stopped developing the traits i have besides looks...

However I've seen a few scientific studies which argue that for short term relationships women prefer men with masculine, dominant features such as square jaws, a prominent brow and small eyes as these are indicators of high testosterone levels. Moreover the more beautiful the woman the more likely she is prepared to risk embarking on a relationship with a macho guy like this.

You have to understand the context of those surveys. When a woman is asked, "which of these do you prefer?" she's going to answer that. And yes MOST High-self esteem women prefer the masculine look. So if they show her a round faced person who looks beta, and a square faced person who looks alpha... she's going to think "danger" with the alpha guy and see him as a short-term f buddy type... and she's going to see a safe father type and a "cute" guy in the beta guy... and she's going to associate him as the provider/LTR type...

So understand that this "scientific survey" was something where a woman was shown a number of types of facial structures and ASKED which one appealed to her on a visual level; which one she'd be more likely to fvck. these pictures have no personality, no game, no aura... they're just visual stimulation....

Im 25 now and as I age Im less cute as my hair is now thinning and Im getting a few lines and wrinkles. But I still have a baby face and soft features. Ive found the only girls who are attracted to that sort of face are the 5s, 6s, and occasionally 8s.

I'm 27 and have all the same problems (as well as redness around my nose). it does not hurt my game. if you're so worried about your looks - dress nicer and workout/diet right...

I feel girls automatically assume Im a nice guy or harmless because of the way I look and while that is useful in the sense girls immediately feel safe and comfortable with me, Im striking out with all the beautiful girls.

If you feel that they feel you're a nice guy and harmless, guess what? you have an advantage! you can take them by surprise by showing them you aren't those things! unless of course you are...

Looking around I see that although you sometimes see beautiful girls with soft looking guys in relationships you rarely see them going home with these sort of guys in bars and clubs.

This is because 90% of guys don't have game, the "cute" guys (like me) generally don't have game, we're seen as soft because we generally are! We become what is expected of us (nice guys). The better looking/more masculine guys, are generally better at gaming because they have A LOT more experience with women... Now in general - their game is all confidence based - but it's still better than "can i buy you a drink my beautiful queen" game... So who approaches most of the girls in the clubs/bars? Not the nice guys... not the guys who look like cute guys... and if they do - they generally have no idea what they're doing...

Then I see the way my female friends lust over the guys with the square jaws and macho looks.

Women lust over me, and it has nothing to do with my face... I don't think i've ever heard that my face was sexy or that i was a hot guy in my life! yet, i've heard "i can't stop thinking about you. i wanna f you right now!" and i've had girls go out to clubs/bars with their friends and call me and ask me to come out because none of the guys in there know how to talk to women... and when i get there see the place crawling with guys much "hotter" than me...

So because of this Ive been getting quite depressed. Looks clearly do matter and Im worried I will never achieve my dream of dating lots of beautiful women.

Looks matter, sure... but you're allowing it to be a barrier... i can see how this would effect you... make you feel unsexy... and how it could make you feel discouraged... and the fact is - that will only make you more unsexy, and more discouraged... and it's a vicious circle or negative energy...

 

[PrettyBoyA]

Best thing to do is learn game dude. Alot of people here will disagree with me, but learn the art of cold-approach "pickup". Take a bootcamp or something.

I did and it helped me stop relying on my looks. Girls think that I'm "cute" and attractive, but I don't look bad ass enough to attract girls just on my looks. So now i never rely on my looks.

I know a girl will not start liking me until i have started talking to her.

 

[DelightInWomen]

Alter your perception

I'm in the same boat as you dude. I am 25 and I have a feminine, boyish face.
I have studied the same stuff, female perceptions facial attractiveness and how their preference CHANGES with their cycle. I could go on and on about how my facial features signal less testosterone, more oxytocin(attachment chemical)
First things first, let me help you out. Its obvious that you're not getting the results you want and so you're looking for answers. You're chalking up your poor performance to EXTERNAL factors. This is an Ego Defense Mechanism. We don't have to feel so bad about ourselves when our misfortunes are the fault of things we have no control over. Instead, look at your inner self for reasons. Are you being outcome dependent, are you needy with these women?
I assure you I understand the science involved in all this. (check out The Alchemy of Love and Lust) But, its not appropriate to discuss it further.
Face it (no pun intended) we're defying evolution. We are the long term care takers, by nature. Keep working on your game and things will change.

You will threaten your self esteem by blaming your own performance in the field. This is taking responsibility, which is making you more Alpha, mature masculine, also, its growth oriented.

 

[viking22]

Thanks for the feedback guys. Im 6 foot 2 so have height going for me at least.

I stay in shape but mostly cardio. Does weightlifting make your jaw bigger? From what I understand most of your facial development is during your teens when high levels of testosterone promote masculinisation of your features. Im not sure whether higher testosterone has the same effect during your 20s.

I guess I just have to work a bit harder to get girls as I do not have my looks going for me. PrettyBoyA I know what you mean.....I have a friend who looks a bit like Russell Crowe and girls fall out of the sky for him and come onto him all the time.

DelightINWoman I like your point about defying evolution. From my reading it seems clear to me that girls have an innate preference for square jawed macho guys. But if I can convey other attractive qualities my looks won't be such a limitation.

 

[Warrior74]

How do you have a breakthrough and then backslide into this? It's more to this story than your telling and your looking for sosymp sympathy and hand holding when you really need a foot in the ass and someone yelling 'get what you want or die trying!'. Either give up or try harder, those are your options. But complaining and circle jerking over scientific crap doesn't get the job done does it? I bet those square jawed macho guys aren't somewhere wringing their hands and fretting, they are somewhere getting a freaking job done! So get it in gear!

 

[bigjohnson]

Everything matters. All the time. Sometimes less, sometimes more. It depends.

That's possibly the best summary of the whole deal I've seen in a while, and if the history of looks threads is indicative, it might be the last one for a while.

In photo rating places I consistently score between 7.7 and 8.4, but that's not enough to make it a walk in the park, everything else has to be there too. Having said that, I think being moderately good looking does make it easier for girls to justify what happens next.

On the other hand I have a friend who does just fine and in photos girls think he's sort of homely, so this sort of issue can clearly be overcome with effort. In his case he has a good career (I know him from work) and works out a lot.

 

[Speculator E]

However I've seen a few scientific studies which argue that for short term relationships women prefer men with masculine, dominant features such as square jaws, a prominent brow and small eyes as these are indicators of high testosterone levels. Moreover the more beautiful the woman the more likely she is prepared to risk embarking on a relationship with a macho guy like this.

I've read some of them too. Do you have links to these studies?

 

[pua1989]

great post

on picture rating sites - on average - i get around a 5.25 (i've been as low as a 3 depending on the audience of the site)...

i have mixed features (strong "masculine" jawline, really fat cheeks, butt-chin, uni-brow, thinning hairline, and strong body structure(that anyone can get from working out/diet.))

i NEVER expect to attract a woman with my looks, but i never have a problem attracting women. mostly with wit, confidence, and sexual energy... and when i say confidence - it's not in my looks, it's in my ability to turn them on through words...

simple as that...


This is good... but it almost sounds like you stopped developing. I too had to get through this, and have never stopped developing the traits i have besides looks...



You have to understand the context of those surveys. When a woman is asked, "which of these do you prefer?" she's going to answer that. And yes MOST High-self esteem women prefer the masculine look. So if they show her a round faced person who looks beta, and a square faced person who looks alpha... she's going to think "danger" with the alpha guy and see him as a short-term f buddy type... and she's going to see a safe father type and a "cute" guy in the beta guy... and she's going to associate him as the provider/LTR type...

So understand that this "scientific survey" was something where a woman was shown a number of types of facial structures and ASKED which one appealed to her on a visual level; which one she'd be more likely to fvck. these pictures have no personality, no game, no aura... they're just visual stimulation....



I'm 27 and have all the same problems (as well as redness around my nose). it does not hurt my game. if you're so worried about your looks - dress nicer and workout/diet right...



If you feel that they feel you're a nice guy and harmless, guess what? you have an advantage! you can take them by surprise by showing them you aren't those things! unless of course you are...



This is because 90% of guys don't have game, the "cute" guys (like me) generally don't have game, we're seen as soft because we generally are! We become what is expected of us (nice guys). The better looking/more masculine guys, are generally better at gaming because they have A LOT more experience with women... Now in general - their game is all confidence based - but it's still better than "can i buy you a drink my beautiful queen" game... So who approaches most of the girls in the clubs/bars? Not the nice guys... not the guys who look like cute guys... and if they do - they generally have no idea what they're doing...



Women lust over me, and it has nothing to do with my face... I don't think i've ever heard that my face was sexy or that i was a hot guy in my life! yet, i've heard "i can't stop thinking about you. i wanna f you right now!" and i've had girls go out to clubs/bars with their friends and call me and ask me to come out because none of the guys in there know how to talk to women... and when i get there see the place crawling with guys much "hotter" than me...



Looks matter, sure... but you're allowing it to be a barrier... i can see how this would effect you... make you feel unsexy... and how it could make you feel discouraged... and the fact is - that will only make you more unsexy, and more discouraged... and it's a vicious circle or negative energy...

 

[Energizer]

According to this topic, I am truly F*cked as I am under 5ft 9 and I have a baby face. I do alright for myself though, I put it out there not caring if I am successful or not and sometimes I surprise even me.

 

[DonGorgon]

modern women like men who look feminine and gay. or pretty as they call it.. females are so powerful now that they are attracted to their own image and likeness

 

[Alle_Gory]

modern women like men who look feminine and gay. or pretty as they call it.. females are so powerful now that they are attracted to their own image and likeness

Show a chick a picture of a firefighter. Tell me what the response is.

 

[Farmboy]

I'm around 6'6" and weigh 200 lbs., my waist is 34 inches and my chest is 48 inches. I've had defined pecs since my feshman year of high school, and even when I was fat in late high school/early college, I still looked muscular. I have a rather square jaw and strong brow and my feet are a size 13 (US)....

My point?

That didn't help AT ALL, EVER!!!
Why?
Becasue I was the worst kind of socially stunted, bitter WBAFC you could imagine. Trust me on this, without game looks will get you ABSOLUTELY NOWHERE. Once you have game, looks help. Once you have great game, looks don't even matter.
Think of it like product marketing. If you have a great product but have terrible makreting and packaging, it won't sell. But if you have phenomenal marketing, you could sell almost anything. Improve your game: go market yourself.

 

[ready123]

how do you think those empirical studies are done?

"here look at these pictures and tell me who looks better"

as opposed to actual macking in the clubs and anything other than passive observation. seriously, I think a couple decades from now, the work from some of the pick-up artists out there will be viewed as academic and replace the conventional and utterly superficial notion of what causes attraction. it's just right now, seduction is viewed as taboo and the community is such a commercialized mess

and Farmboy's introspection of himself in high school was similar to mine in my early 20's - attractive enough to make a good initial impression and get approached by girls but no game whatsoever

I like RSD's assertion that looks just mean you can make more mistakes. if you wanna get scientific, all looks do are generate a good first impression and in some cases, let the more impulsive girls project a caricature of what type of guy they think you are onto you regardless of who you really are (AKA you can make more mistakes). but first impressions can be overruled out once you open your mouth. and neutral impressions can swing the right direction once you open your mouth. game, AKA your social skills, will always matter more

 

[dbot]

Such studies are bullshit no matter how they're conducted. There is no proof or evidence of causality whatsoever.

For all you know, those features give the man more confidence and a stronger mental frame, and that's what attracts the woman, not the physical features themselves. Think about that for a second.

 

[SharinganUser]

Such studies are bullshit no matter how they're conducted. There is no proof or evidence of causality whatsoever.

For all you know, those features give the man more confidence and a stronger mental frame, and that's what attracts the woman, not the physical features themselves. Think about that for a second.

Exactly, I always take those "studies" with a grain of salt because they are being conducted by people who don't actually have sex.

 

[OTB]

I'm around 6'6" and weigh 200 lbs., my waist is 34 inches and my chest is 48 inches. I've had defined pecs since my feshman year of high school, and even when I was fat in late high school/early college, I still looked muscular. I have a rather square jaw and strong brow and my feet are a size 13 (US)....

That definetly sounds like what a Farmboy would look like...

 

[DonGorgon]

Show a chick a picture of a firefighter. Tell me what the response is.

She will be attracted to the gay looking fire fighter... gay is the new straight..