Questions about squats.

[Flabbergasped?]

First of all, what is the verdict on below-parallel/ass to grass squatting?

I heard it works your knees more. My knees suck, so I try to avoid it, but it seems like cheating. I don't feel myself exerting myself if I stop at parallel unless I throw on lots more weight.

My legs tend to be like so:

\ / Where the slashes are my legs. I know proper form is

| | but I just lose my balance and risk dropping the weight. Is it tremendously bad for my legs to point ******ds? They don't point as dramatically as the slashes would make you think, but still do substantially.

Also, I experience a little bit of back pain, usually during the workout. I attribute it to holding that really heavy bar, but could it be that I'm not aligned properly? Also, the next day, your ass/back of your thigh should be sore if you did it properly, right?

 

[spesmilitis]

The lower you can go the better, but do not go so low that you can 'rest' and the bottom. As you go lower, it should get harder to maintain that position, untill as certian point where you can rest. Start going up before the 'rest' period.

There is some research that suggests squating so low that your tigh's touches your calves could strech some knee ligamends in a bad way. However, I could not find definate research on this conclusion. I spend hours of google scholor trying to figure it out.


is the leg position you described from the front? Or the top? If from the front, maybe spread your legs alittle more, and point your toes alittle out wards if you are not doing so. Remember, toes should be point the same direction as the knees.
If from the top, i dunno if thats right, I do it that way too. . . . .

Also, when doing the squat, are you "good morning" it? This is when your hips go up faster than your upperbody, so your legs are straight but your back still hasnt straightened. You want your hips and shoulders going up at the same rate.

Soreness mostly hams, gluts, tighs/quads, and then lower back.

 

[blinkwatt]

Use a hammer machine and just go at it on squats(all the way down) for a burnout every once & awhile,it's a blast.

 

[spesmilitis]

Use a hammer machine and just go at it on squats(all the way down) for a burnout every once & awhile,it's a blast.

Is that a smith machine?

 

[blinkwatt]

I have heard some people call it that.

 

[mrRuckus]

First of all, what is the verdict on below-parallel/ass to grass squatting?

\ / Where the slashes are my legs. I know proper form is

| | but I just lose my balance and risk dropping the weight. Is it tremendously bad for my legs to point ******ds? They don't point as dramatically as the slashes would make you think, but still do substantially.

I'm not sure what \ / means but your knees should be pushed out-wards (why is ******ds censored?) and not cave in at all. If they're caving in and you can't keep them out, you need to lower the weight until your adductors are stronger.

Yes go below parallel. It IS better for your knees. If you stop at parallel you're using your knees as brakes rather than your hips. Stopping at parallel you have all your weight on your knees. Below parallel the weight is supported by your hips. Ass to grass is not literal. At least go a couple inches below parallel. In fact, in powerlifting meets you have to go below or it doesn't count.

 

[spesmilitis]

I forgot to mention the most important part of going below paralell:

DO NOT LET YOUR KNEES GO PAST YOUR TOES

 

[SamoJednom]

meaning you would lose balance??

When I do my Ass to Ground... I point my feet ******ds at like a 30 degree angle and squat till my hamies are touching the calfs or pretty close to it. I keep my chest sticking out... put all my pressure on the heel not the toes and squat down while looking forward .... is this fine?

 

[Gus]

Go as low as you can without releasing your hips--if you go down you should feel a tightness in your hips, if you release your hips you're going to do a number on your knees...

 

[Drum&Bass]

Yes go below parallel. It IS better for your knees. If you stop at parallel you're using your knees as brakes rather than your hips. Stopping at parallel you have all your weight on your knees.

Better Form is better for your knees, NOT how low you go, how low you go just means how much of your hams/glutes are worked, the higher you stop the more punishment for your lower back

 

[mrRuckus]

From http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/showpost.php?p=5124176&postcount=825

There are several schools of thought on squat depth. Many misinformed individuals caution against squatting below parallel, stating that this is hazardous to the knees. Nothing could be further from the truth. (2) Stopping at or above parallel places direct stress on the knees, whereas a deep squat will transfer the load to the hips,(3) which are capable of handling a greater amount of force than the knees should ever be exposed to. Studies have shown that the squat produces lower peak tibeo-femoral(stress at the knee joint) compressive force than both the leg press and the leg extension.(4) For functional strength, one should descend as deeply as possible, and under control. (yes, certain individuals can squat in a ballistic manner, but they are the exception rather than the rule). The further a lifter descends, the more the hamstrings are recruited, and proper squatting displays nearly twice the hamstring involvement of the leg press or leg extension. (5,6) and as one of the functions of the hamstring is to protect the patella tendon (the primary tendon involved in knee extension) during knee extension through a concurrent firing process, the greatest degree of hamstring recruitment should provide the greatest degree of protection to the knee joint. (7) When one is a powerlifter, the top surface of the legs at the hip joint must descend to a point below the top surface of the legs at the knee joint.

Your knees are fine going past your toes. Just not excessively far.

Don't think of it as "keep your head up" think of it as keep your CHEST up. Holding your chest up is really a BACK movement and that keeps your upper back in proper position. Your neck itself really shouldn't be bent much up. Actually in Mark Rippetoe's Starting Strength, he recommends finding a spot slightly DOWN to stare at while keeping your chest up.

About the SMITH machine:

Certain misinformed and so-called “personal trainers” will have people squat in a smith machine, which is, quite simply, an idea both hideous and destructive. This is often done under the misguided “squat this way until you are strong enough to perform a regular squat” premise. Even if one overlooks the obvious fact that it is better to learn to do something right than build bad habits from the start, there are numerous other factors to be considered. The smith machine stabilizes the bar for the lifter, which does not teach the skill of balancing the bar, balance being important to any athlete, as well as the fact that free weight squatting strengthens the synergists which goes a long way to preventing injuries. A chain is only as strong as its weakest link, and the smith machine leaves far too many weak links. To say nothing of the fact that free weights provide a greater transfer of functional strength than machines. (23)Furthermore, the bar moves straight up and down, and very few people squat in this manner, which means that the smith machine does not fit a lifters optimal strength curve. (24) The smith machine also requires that the lifter either squats with his torso much closer to vertical than would be done with a real squat, which mechanically decreases the involvement of both the spinal erectors and the hamstrings. While this would be fine if it was done by the lifters muscular control, when the smith machine does this it is disadvantageous to the lifter by virtue of decreasing the ability of the hamstrings to protect the knee joint. Another mistake made, aside from simply using it in the first place, is allow the knees to drift forward over the toes, the chance of which is increased by the smith machine. As was previously mentioned, this greatly increases the shearing force on the knees. This from a device touted by the ignorant as “safe.”

When I do my Ass to Ground... I point my feet ******ds at like a 30 degree angle and squat till my hamies are touching the calfs or pretty close to it. I keep my chest sticking out... put all my pressure on the heel not the toes and squat down while looking forward .... is this fine?

30 degrees is just about perfect. If you're looking forward and your upper back is rounded (chest up) that's good.

The vast majority of bodybuilders and powerlifters caution squatting past parallel.

The vast majority of bodybuilders and powerlifters have no idea what they are talking about. The vast majority of bodybuilders think high volume routines found in magazines are where it's at. The vast majority of bodybuilders think that what got them to their size is what everyone else should do completely ignoring the fact that those huge ass mofos who ate nothing but crackers everyday and worked out 6 days a week are genetically blessed.