Question for Warboss Alex

[Nobody]

I never really see anyone recommend 2 g/lb of protein and just eat carbs until full. Tell me why I should take your word over everyone else's. 95% of Bodybuilding sites, I'd say, recommend Bulking/Cutting.


Not insulting, actually you're the best set of information I've ever read. I just want you to elaborate. I love your stuff. Is it because you believe that you're gaining muscle with the most limited amount of fat for trying to gain weight? And losing the most fat without muscle loss?

 

[[S]alvatore]

Although it's directed at Alex i'll give my 2 cents. I've seen the majority of people recommending 2g protein per lb, so it's nothing out of the ordinary. As to his take on bulking and cutting, I have to disagree with him on it. To gain mass you need more cals than you use, to cut bodyfat you need to burn more than you consume. I don't believe in lean bulking (unless you are using AAS), because it will take you fu<king ages to put on weight at what cost, so that you can still look like those Calvin Klein model homos all year round? Bulk in winter when you're not wearing short sleeved shirts and singlets. Cut up before summer for when you hit the beaches. That's my opinion anyway.

 

[grr]

I eventually settled on the same philosophy Salvatore just described, BUT, I think its important to play with cutting & bulking as they react to your diet, first. Say bulk for a month, cut for a month, if you haven't been working out in a while.

This way you can find a baseline diet, a cutting diet, and a bulking diet. Three different diets you should learn to measure before comitting to a physique.

This prevents you from getting too skinny by August, or too fat by March for example.

 

[Adone]

Actually, I prefer Alex's philosophy, mostly because whenever my bodyfat goes over 10% I tend to have a little gut and at 14% I look pregnant (although still veiny everywhere else), so I can't really bulk.

 

[mrRuckus]

I don't believe in lean bulking (unless you are using AAS), because it will take you fu<king ages to put on weight at what cost,

muscle mass, not weight.

If i weigh 190 now and 2 months from now i weigh 190 and i have to buy smaller waisted pants then i'm happy.

 

[mrRuckus]

He already answered this.

http://www.sosuave.net/forum/showthread.php?t=81893

 

[Warboss Alex]

guys .. the way I do things is just one way to do things, bulking/cutting is another. there's no law that says you can't bulk and cut. I just don't see the point of 'bulking' which means putting fat on as well when the fat has to come off at some point anyway. and while you 'cut' the fat you put on, strength gains will be minimal or possibly even regress.

what I'm so opposed to, is people taking for granted a little fat gain when they 'bulk' and a little muscle loss when they 'cut' - that's what I don't like. unless you're a competitor who has to get so shredded or put on so much muscle to be successful then there's no reason for the recreational lifter (i.e. myself) to follow the bulk/cut or offseason/precontest protocol of pro bbers.

you can gain muscle while losing fat so why should you gain muscle and gain fat too? of course the ideal situation is this: maintaining a low bodyfat and gaining muscle there, because that's what's going to be the fastest way for anyone to gain muscle without getting fat (muscle gains are slower while losing fat at the same time). but for most guys on this board, they're after some muscle mass (moderate to high) and have a sixpack as well. I'm just saying what the fastest way to do this would be. people who just wanna look good are ideal candidates for recomping.

if any of you guys have competitive aspirations then yeah, maybe you need and offseason and a precontest, but most SUCCESSFUL bodybuilders don't let their bodyfat get too high offseason anyway.. because their precontest will be more intense and more chance of muscle loss.

personally I used to bulk and cut as well. I'd eat a pizza every day. pancakes and maple syrup and fresh cream for breakfast -> result: one fat, depressed Alex. then I'd drop down to 2000 kcal as advised by some of the bulk/cut gurus (who were saying "yes, it's hard and muscle loss is inevitable but you'll be ripped") -> result: one depressed Alex with a docile thyroid. yes I had some more muscle but I'd end up losing it when I cut.

then I stopped all this, just ate big, was careful with carbs, was meticulous with cardio (nearly every day), ate the right foods (in huge quantities), and went from a fat-ish 93kg to 100kg with abs in 3-4 months. I haven't looked back since, except to think "what a fool I was" and wondering what I could've been if I'd actually trained and eaten properly for the first 3 years that I was into this stuff. 'course it doesn't really matter now but it would've been nice to have avoided all the frustration.

whatever you guys want to choose to do I'm with you, but remember you don't HAVE to have muscle+fat gain or muscle+fat loss - you can have both.

 

[RedPill]

Is there a name for this philosophy that is the opposite of bulk/cut? I think if there were a name for it, people would use that name around here and it would carry more weight in discussions. I think of it as Controlled Growth.

Think about this guys... what do you call rapid, uncontrolled growth? By definition, it's cancer. When I think of the bulking methodology, I think of cancer. In life as well as in lifting, I would far prefer steady, permanent, sustainable growth instead of making fast gains which leave a costly mess that has to be cleaned up at some point.

 

[Shiftkey]

Fat intake increases testosterone production, which makes muscle growth faster. Bulking cycles are usually longer than cutting cycles so you lose much less muscle and strength than you gain during bulking cycles. That's the logic behind bulking/cutting.

I don't think most bulking cycle programs recommend eating pizza and syrup every day. From what I've read, you bulk clean even with a cutting cycle to minimize how long of a cutting cycle you need.

Nobody, don't forget that we have a private message system if you have questions just for one member.

 

[Nobody]

guys .. the way I do things is just one way to do things, bulking/cutting is another. there's no law that says you can't bulk and cut. I just don't see the point of 'bulking' which means putting fat on as well when the fat has to come off at some point anyway. and while you 'cut' the fat you put on, strength gains will be minimal or possibly even regress.

what I'm so opposed to, is people taking for granted a little fat gain when they 'bulk' and a little muscle loss when they 'cut' - that's what I don't like. unless you're a competitor who has to get so shredded or put on so much muscle to be successful then there's no reason for the recreational lifter (i.e. myself) to follow the bulk/cut or offseason/precontest protocol of pro bbers.

you can gain muscle while losing fat so why should you gain muscle and gain fat too? of course the ideal situation is this: maintaining a low bodyfat and gaining muscle there, because that's what's going to be the fastest way for anyone to gain muscle without getting fat (muscle gains are slower while losing fat at the same time). but for most guys on this board, they're after some muscle mass (moderate to high) and have a sixpack as well. I'm just saying what the fastest way to do this would be. people who just wanna look good are ideal candidates for recomping.

if any of you guys have competitive aspirations then yeah, maybe you need and offseason and a precontest, but most SUCCESSFUL bodybuilders don't let their bodyfat get too high offseason anyway.. because their precontest will be more intense and more chance of muscle loss.

personally I used to bulk and cut as well. I'd eat a pizza every day. pancakes and maple syrup and fresh cream for breakfast -> result: one fat, depressed Alex. then I'd drop down to 2000 kcal as advised by some of the bulk/cut gurus (who were saying "yes, it's hard and muscle loss is inevitable but you'll be ripped") -> result: one depressed Alex with a docile thyroid. yes I had some more muscle but I'd end up losing it when I cut.

then I stopped all this, just ate big, was careful with carbs, was meticulous with cardio (nearly every day), ate the right foods (in huge quantities), and went from a fat-ish 93kg to 100kg with abs in 3-4 months. I haven't looked back since, except to think "what a fool I was" and wondering what I could've been if I'd actually trained and eaten properly for the first 3 years that I was into this stuff. 'course it doesn't really matter now but it would've been nice to have avoided all the frustration.

whatever you guys want to choose to do I'm with you, but remember you don't HAVE to have muscle+fat gain or muscle+fat loss - you can have both.

You should write a book.

 

[Warboss Alex]

You should write a book.

no, I'm just a guy of average-genetics and strenght, who has had very bad advice. the thought of how much time I WASTED is sickening.

I remember some of the ratios they gave me. 1g protein per lb, 6g carbs, 40g fat - 40g total fat for the diet, not per lb. I mean hell, did they take into account that I was an endomorph with some spare tyre at the time? did they think about carb sensitivy because of my higher bodyfat? they gave me a calorie plan daily, did that take into account the fact I was at college and walking around a lot?

the guy who gave me the advice was a runt. he was like.. 175 at 6' if that. I thought he looked good because he had abs but he did not know jack about lifting or eating. he just got his training certificate and designed diets which were scale-friendly and kept his clients happy. he was just as clueless as most gym trainers (no offence to anyone, there's good trainers in there but I had a trainer tell me the other day that rack deads were bad for my back I should do cable rows instead).

when I did my own research, my own thinking and generally my own thing, I made incredible progress. and frankly, if you ever have a guy quoting studies and telling you to do crossovers you can rest assured said guy never made it past 200lbs himself if that.

don't take my word for it, just look at what the biggest (natural) guys are doing: big heavy lifts and eating their asses off. rocket science innit?

 

[Shiftkey]

Alex, just becauce a guy is big does not mean he knows what he's doing or that he's capable of giving out good advice. You know what you're talking about, but not all of the meatheads in the gym are as smart.

 

[Skilla_Staz]

I skipped the last few replies, so if I repeat anybody, get over it.

To gain WEIGHT you need excess calories.
To lose WEIGHT you need a deficit in calories.

To gain muscle mass, you just need to have the proper nutrients at hand for proper muscle repair, and proper stimulus as well as recovery time.

To lose body fat, you just need to be able to metabolize it. You can have an excess in calories, gain weight, and still lose body fat. I am an example. 3 week ago, I was 150lbs. You could see my abs in really good lighting and only if I flexed. 3 Weeks later, I weigh 156lbs. My abs are slightly visible in the broad daylight when relaxed, and quite visible when flexed. My veins are more defined in my forearms, and my waist has shrunk about a half inch.

I gained weight, I'm sure I lost bodyfat. Thank you.

Also, I can guarantee you that olympic sprinters don't eat fewer calories than they burn, yet they remained ripped all season. I can guarantee that they don't do hours of slow cardio, and hit the weights to help them lose fat. They murder themselves in the weight room, and go balls to the walls in their sprint workouts. The bodyfat percentage of those sprinters is generally between 6-10% and they are usually pretty muscular. I, being a sprinter, can assure you, that you will NOT be at your peak performance if you eat fewer calories than you burn.

 

[Skilla_Staz]

don't take my word for it, just look at what the biggest (natural) guys are doing: big heavy lifts and eating their asses off. rocket science innit?

Go to the fortified iron forums and talk to Layne Norton.

Also, one thing I forgot to mention, is that these bulk/cut cycles are generally for bodybuilders who have to basically starve themselves to reduce their body fat to the extreme ranges, such a 5-4%, and then eat everything in site to gain a few pounds a year.