Psychologists and psychotherapists (long)

[TheChicGeek]

Hello everyone. My name is David and I am a 20 (21 in on nov 8 woohoo!) year old college student attending a state university. I recently decided that to help myself to be a happier person (note: I am not unhappy or depressed, but I feel there are issues that I have, mainly socially, that prevent me from being as happy as I want to be), I would start seeing a psychotherapist. I was just wondering what you guys thought about the professional psychology community. Specifically, do psychologists/psychotherapists really work to make people happier and more content? Also, I would like to hear about anyones experiences (first or third hand) regarding this.

My psychotherapist's name is Ricardo. I met with him once for an hour and basically discussed how I am not happy with my life socially. I talked about how I don't have as many friends or as good of friends as I would like to have, I don't have as many girls as I would like, and I generally feel socially awkward at times. He refers to this as being "shy". He said it is usually labeled "social anxiety", but he likes to avoid that label.

I told him that a lot of my frustration seems to stem from the fact that people don't return my calls most of the time, and generally don't seem interested in having me as a friend. He asked me why it frustrates me and I said because it makes me feel there is something wrong with me, that maybe if I can learn to act differently or approach people differently it would help me to have more friends/girls and thus be happier. His answer to that was that there was in fact nothing wrong with me at all. He said that some people are just naturally shy and what I should do, instead of trying to change that, is observe it within myself. He said I should look within (my own thoughts/feelings) rather than without (girls/friends/material possesions/etc).

Essentially, to be fine with who I am so that I don't feel the need to change myself. He said that I can not change the way people act towards me or my inherent shyness since those things are part of reality and my nature. He suggested that when I think thoughts that make me unhappy, instead of trying to stop thinking those thoughts or change something to stop feeling unhappy, I should observe what I am thinking and feeling. By observing instead of trying to change I become seperate from those thoughts and feelings. For example, when I get sad, I should perhaps try to guess how long it will last. By making a guess and observing to confirm my hypothesis I will become seperate from it and I might find I no longer think/feel those thoughts/feelings. He made an analogy saying sadness is like when its raining. Instead of yelling in futility at the heavens while standing drenched in the rain, a smart person would instead grab an umbrella to prevent from getting wet. Underneath that umbrella, one is free to observe the rain instead of being drenched by it.

He said it is possible for one to change and no longer be as shy, but the process will be painful. The costs would outweigh the benefits, and one would tend to revert back to their state of shyness. Instead, it is much simpler to accept yourself as you are. He also suggested a book for me to read and gave me a mini-book to read. The book is called "Non-Violent Communication" by Marshall Rosenberg (for those who are search-engine challenged: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-violent_communication) and the mini-book is called "Loving What Is" by Byron Katie.

What do you guys think about what he has told me? I am a bit skeptic. My knee jerk reaction is "what is up with all this compassion ****". I used to be really compassionate towards the needs of others, but I found I am happier when I shifted the focus back towards myself and became more selfish. I generally agree with him about looking within rather than without, but to completely devote yourself to such ideals would also lead one to a life similar to that of a buddhist monk, which I am not sure is the type of life I would like to live, so my current opinion is a mixure of looking within and without. Also, if I believe everything he is telling me, it seems that I should completely abandon the idea of self-improvement. After all, if I am completely fine the way I am, why should I try to change myself to become more "successful" with people and, more specifically, girls? It seems as though he wants me to believe that I shouldn't. I understand that being shy and being comfortable with it may help me to have more/better friends, but what about girls? Don't humans have a biological urge to reproduce? Won't being shy prevent me from getting girls that I am attracted to? Won't my urge to have sex make me less happy than if I was less shy and, therefore, could be more sexually successful?

It seems that if I completely believed what he is telling me, I would believe that websites as this shouldn't exist and merely prevent people from being psychologically well. Afterall, what is this website but a community of people who think something is wrong with them and want to change? That is what I think, but I really want to hear what you guys think. Thanks.

EDIT: What do you guys think I should bring up with him the next time I see him (ie questions and the like)?

 

[6-heads lewis]

I didn't read your post.

if your rich, by all means spend your money on therapy, hypnosis, spritiual awakening, tarot cards, rabbit paws and all the other hippie garbage you can afford.

if you're broke, spend your money on a nice hairstyle, a fake tan, a gym membership, food, teeth whitener, and decent clothes. youll get better results anyway.

ive tried to do therapy the cheap way, buying a pleuthora of books on the subject, trying to understand myself. a huge waste of time it all was. the truth is noone gives a crap about you, the real you. if you look good and act normal, thats all that matters. in this sense, women are actually far more intelligent than men, at least in terms of producing practical success. depressing, i know.

just remember this - most beings have the same basic experiences. when you're scared, tohers get scared too. when you're shy, millions of other have been there too. we all have the same basic fears, some are just able to push throguh them better than others.

everyone is primarily concerned with what others are thinking of them. when youre talking to someone, they are not focusing on you and your imperfections. they are focused on themselves, and how you perceive their imperfetions. nobody is actually judging anyone else barring outrageous circumstances, were too preoccupied with how everyone else is judging us.

 

[6-heads lewis]

and by the wya, if you're actually looking forward to your birthday, you havent matured yet. getting older sucks. i spent my own 21st birthday (a week ago) listening to 'time' by pink floyd about 50 times contemplating my lack of achievement, and how just yesterday i was 18 and full of hope.

 

[Francisco d'Anconia]

Everyone could benefit from getting professional help (no matter their status in life) if only to get a better perspective on personal issues.

 

[wayword]

Everyone could benefit from getting professional help (no matter their status in life) if only to get a better perspective on personal issues.

BS, this shrink is a hack - like most. They tend to be too textbook and academic, and lack reality-based, common-sense analysis skills.

Now, I do agree that it's good to seek a BALANCE between an external/internal locus, but

He said it is possible for one to change and no longer be as shy, but the process will be painful. The costs would outweigh the benefits, and one would tend to revert back to their state of shyness.

BS. The process would take years, but is not painful or only temporary. In fact, being shy and socially-stunted is painful. I used to be PAINFULLY shy, but have slowly worked myself out of it over the years. And with each step of progress, I felt better. It was not a painful process at all, but the opposite in fact.

I had just reached a point in my life where I acknowledged that my "natural" shyness was a huge "setback," and I could either try to change that (if possible) or learn to live with it. I opted to try to change...and yes, I've discovered that it IS possible! Trust me dude, being shy will get you NOWHERE in life. And accepting that and trying to compensate for it with "compassion" is totally missing the problem and whack. Your shrink is an idiot.

 

[oakraiderz2]

Youre poll is kinda retarded. Isnt the point of this site changing ones self? Which in turn results in them getting what they want; therfore, an indivitual would be happier? Someone can change theyre attitude and behavior with out the help of a psychologist or therapist. If one really wants to change then they will do it themselves. Theres no reason to get professional help unless its really that bad. Your psychotherapist is a nut job. Fvck is passifying attitude toward shyness. BS that you cant change the way people look at you and that you need to look inside yourself. I used to be shy as hell and when i look back i dont understand how i was so quiet. I would stop going to him, read the stuff here and take control of your life. Even though some of the people here can be kinda...yea...theres enough advice to change. If you want to change your behavior...change your thoughts.

 

[VSTbeserk]

Honestly 99% of the worlds problems would be gone if people had more mental toughness.

 

[Francisco d'Anconia]

BS, this shrink is a hack - like most. They tend to be too textbook and academic, and lack reality-based, common-sense analysis skills.

This is what people don't realize about psychology, the information is based on studies of hundreds or thousands of peoples experiences. Think about it, why limit yourself to the experiences of a handful of people or even of just your own? Why not stack the deck with the experience of more people than you would ever be able to tap into on your own?

Psychologist are trained to look at things for which they are and not emotionally which is the cause of most peoples problems in the first place. Their emotions diminishes their objectivity which makes it difficult for them to find viable solutions because their filters only allows them to see things based on their personal perception.

 

[TheChicGeek]

Wow. Thanks everyone for all the responses. As of yet, I am unsure of how I think of my therapist. He seems intelligent enough, although he seems to rely on asking vague questions that are really hard to try and answer in any specific way. When I had to get a psychologist earlier (don't ask) he was similar in that sense. Except my therapist now actually has some slightly more definate answers to my questions. My last psychologist relied on you figuring everything out yourself, which kinda seemed like a waste of time. It was like, "Why the **** are you getting paid if you aren't giving me any kind of answers, whether I like them or not? I can do this by talking to myself." At the very least it seems helpful to have someone to talk to about those sort of things.

if your rich, by all means spend your money on therapy, hypnosis, spritiual awakening, tarot cards, rabbit paws and all the other hippie garbage you can afford.

Well, its all free, so I figured why the hell not try it. Worse comes to worse hes a quack and I don't learn ****, but why not try?

the truth is noone gives a crap about you, the real you. if you look good and act normal, thats all that matters.

Why do you think no one gives a crap? I'm sure my parents do. They've invested a lot of time, money, and emotion in me. If I died all that would be down the tubes. So they have an interest in my survival and they're view of my well-being. Sure its selfish, but I don't think that means they "don't give a crap". There are other people who have an interest in my life as well, but my therapist does have a point in that you can't always depend on other people for support, you have to look to yourself because people always put themselves before others.

if you look good and act normal, thats all that matters. in this sense, women are actually far more intelligent than men, at least in terms of producing practical success.

If you think women are better at "looking good and acting normal" I don't think you have ever met most of my ex-girlfriends or most of the women from my hometown. :: shutters ::

and by the wya, if you're actually looking forward to your birthday, you havent matured yet. getting older sucks.

Now you're just being grumpy.

I just have one last question for you. If you answer any of my questions, I hope you answer this one or at least think about it. After all the work on yourself that you have done and everything you have achieved towards your goals, do you feel happier/more content now than you did before?

 

[TheChicGeek]

BS. The process would take years, but is not painful or only temporary. In fact, being shy and socially-stunted is painful. I used to be PAINFULLY shy, but have slowly worked myself out of it over the years. And with each step of progress, I felt better. It was not a painful process at all, but the opposite in fact.

I agree with you on this definately. That is why I think it's been interesting to talk to my therapist so far. His views are almost totally different from mine right now, at least it seems that why. I'm going to ask him to clarify some questions I have regarding what he has told me and I'll see if my opinions change at all.

Your shrink is an idiot.

Meh.

 

[TheChicGeek]

Isnt the point of this site changing ones self? Which in turn results in them getting what they want; therfore, an indivitual would be happier?

Well, ya the point of the site is changing one's self, and hopefully getting what you want because of it, but sometimes what you get isn't actually what you had wanted. Some people's hopes are so high that success socially will be everything, but then it turns out having more friends and ****ing all the time doesn't bring them happiness. It depends on your outlook.

Someone can change theyre attitude and behavior with out the help of a psychologist or therapist. If one really wants to change then they will do it themselves.

Sure. But someone changing their outlook on life and the way they think of themselves and others can be much more difficult and rewarding sometimes. That is where new viewpoints from professionals can sometimes help. Depends on the person I am sure.

Psychologist are trained to look at things for which they are and not emotionally which is the cause of most peoples problems in the first place. Their emotions diminishes their objectivity which makes it difficult for them to find viable solutions because their filters only allows them to see things based on their personal perception.

Ya, but I kind of doubt that psychologists and psychotherapists don't ever present you with what they subjectively think is right or wrong. After all, teachers are supposed to be objective right? My dad's a teacher, I can tell you right now, he is definately NOT objective.

 

[6-heads lewis]

i didnt mean to come across as insulting by the way, although i know i usually do.

this is what i meant by 'nobody gives a crap', as i posted in aother thread:

'Be kind to your fellow man, improve society and help those who are in need whenever possible, but recognize that only you truly have your best interests in mind. This doesnt mean everyone is out to get you or that they're all *******s, it just means that consciously or unconsciously people want you to exist in a way that makes them happiest. We all do this.'

we come across way too many people to think about each perosn individually. we just group them into categories basedon how they look. and im sure your parents love you and care about you, like we all care bout our families, but thats not really what i mean.

if its free, you might as well. i probably would.

i find very few ppl look forward to getting older. many of the happiest and most privileged ppl i know hate their birthdays, and for obvious reasons. dfont forget that often the same people who act happy in public are miserable in private. yeah they go out and party to celebrate, but you dont see the deep, disappointed reflection that commonly follows.

After all the work on yourself that you have done and everything you have achieved towards your goals, do you feel happier/more content now than you did before?

philosophizing, reading books, reflecting - useless. growing my hair out, wearing decent clothes, grooming - huge improvement. i spent years in boxing making myself tougher, stronger, a better fighter... and it has virtually no spillover effect. i still looked scrawny and weak, so i was perceived as inferior to these bodybuilding goons whose face i could rearrange whenever i wanted. i was treated like a skinny, weak, passive loser and eventually when youre treated as something for long enough you start to believe it, its too tiring to keep fighting it. in the ring i was respcted. everywhere else people tried to walk all over me, women treated me as a second-rate citizen.

that's why i got into bodybuilding, which i personally loathe.

i dont what my goal is. it used to be becoming a world-class boxer, but i decided against that. now i guess its just plow as many hot chicks as possible, make lots of money, and help out society as much as reasonably possible until about 35, at which point hopefully ill be dead.

 

[Francisco d'Anconia]

Ya, but I kind of doubt that psychologists and psychotherapists don't ever present you with what they subjectively think is right or wrong. After all, teachers are supposed to be objective right? My dad's a teacher, I can tell you right now, he is definately NOT objective.

Although I have a HUGE respect for teachers, I can't compare their abilities to that of a psychologist. It's like comparing a building contractor with an architect. A architect may be able to design a great building but I'd be more comfortable having the contractor build it. Complementing careers but extremely different in their unique type of knowledge. By the way, teachers are seldom known as being objective, it may be beneficial if they were but that's another topic altogether.

 

[Celadus]

You might want to try shopping around for a psychologist you actually like and you think will help you get where you want. Dont spin your tires and waste money on something that won't work. I tried one a few years ago and I think it could have been helpful. A younger one might be better than an older one for this kind of thing. Most people don't give a **** about you and sometimes it might help to have someone to ***** too.

Celadus

 

[Francisco d'Anconia]

You might want to try shopping around for a psychologist you actually like and you think will help you get where you want. Dont spin your tires and waste money on something that won't work. I tried one a few years ago and I think it could have been helpful. A younger one might be better than an older one for this kind of thing. Most people don't give a **** about you and sometimes it might help to have someone to ***** too.

Celadus

Good suggestions. Also ask about their specialties.

 

[DJinTraining06]

BS, this shrink is a hack - like most. They tend to be too textbook and academic, and lack reality-based, common-sense analysis skills.

Now, I do agree that it's good to seek a BALANCE between an external/internal locus, but BS. The process would take years, but is not painful or only temporary. In fact, being shy and socially-stunted is painful. I used to be PAINFULLY shy, but have slowly worked myself out of it over the years. And with each step of progress, I felt better. It was not a painful process at all, but the opposite in fact.

I had just reached a point in my life where I acknowledged that my "natural" shyness was a huge "setback," and I could either try to change that (if possible) or learn to live with it. I opted to try to change...and yes, I've discovered that it IS possible! Trust me dude, being shy will get you NOWHERE in life. And accepting that and trying to compensate for it with "compassion" is totally missing the problem and whack. Your shrink is an idiot.

How did u change being shy? I dont know where to start, i usually take 1 step forward 2 steps back. I have my moments and then i then i just go right back to shy. i cant figure out why i get so nervous around girls and new people in general. Ive done alot of thinkin about it and i realized alot of the people im shy with i dont even care about, so why am i shy? It cant be fear of rejection if i dont care about them or most of them at least. Could it be old habits? Or is it nature? am i naturally reserved. Soemtimes i think its low energy level cuz i see some people in my office that never run out of gas, me i always tired alot.

So whatd u do to change things?

 

[whistler]

For therapy to actually work, the therapist needs to be able to correctly apply the techniques that have been shown objectively to work. Part of this includes being able to appreciate and evaluate the theory behind the practice.

So... if I were trying to get over a serious disorder, I would only bother with a licensed clinical psychologist (with a PhD).

If instead I just need to talk through things and/or have a steady shoulder to support me, there are many fantastic counselors (psychologists or otherwise) out there.

So the answer to your poll is: It depends. There are different grades and types of counselors.

 

[TheChicGeek]

Thanks for clarifying 6-heads. I definately agree with what you are saying about "nobody gives a crap about you." To me, you didn't really come off as insulting, you came off as somebody who doesn't really like yourself. I mean, you talk about how much of a "loser" you were, and how you have changed yourself because of that, but it doesn't seem like you have really changed your self image. It kind of sounds like you worked really hard to try and change other people's image of you and never really changed your self image. It sounds like you treat yourself like crap. You are forcing yourself to bodybuild, which you hate to do, all so that other people might look at you and think differently of you.

Francisco, ya, you are probably right. I am sure psychologists/therapists are more objective than teachers.

DJinTraining, if you want my advice, I'd probably say it starts with liking yourself first. Once you like yourself, you start to become more likeable to other people. A hell of a lot easier to do that than to try and force yourself to be sociable. Also, if you really like the person that you are, you wont feel as strong of a need for social acceptance with every person you meet (esp girls). Also, just plain experience helps. Every time you see a person that you want to say something to, simply realise that you thought that and just carry it out into action.

For example, the other day I was lifting weights at the gym. I haven't lifted in a long long time, and my lifts have suffered significantly. There were these two girls lifting next to me. Lifting MORE than me. I thought, "wouldn't it be funny if I made a joke about how much stronger they are than me." and I just did. I think you will find that when you do that, your instincts become more refined and your conversation skills will improve (an important part to picking up women).

Probably one of the most important pieces of advice I have heard is something to the effect of, if you feel like you NEED sex/relationship/friends/whatever you are not going to get it.

whistler, the poll has nothing to do with psychological counselors.

 

[Desdinova]

He said that some people are just naturally shy and what I should do, instead of trying to change that, is observe it within myself.

WTF??? If this is what therapy is all about, I don't want it.

His answer to that was that there was in fact nothing wrong with me at all.

There's something wrong with everybody. Identifying what's wrong is the tough part.

For example, when I get sad, I should perhaps try to guess how long it will last. By making a guess and observing to confirm my hypothesis I will become seperate from it and I might find I no longer think/feel those thoughts/feelings. He made an analogy saying sadness is like when its raining. Instead of yelling in futility at the heavens while standing drenched in the rain, a smart person would instead grab an umbrella to prevent from getting wet. Underneath that umbrella, one is free to observe the rain instead of being drenched by it.

I'm going to apply this analogy differently. Instead of getting drenched by being sad, get under that umbrella and DEAL with what is causing you to be sad.

Let me tell you about my shyness. I didn't sit there and say "Oh, I'm shy and there's nothing I can do about it." I'll tell you what my problem was - I was adapting to my surroundings. I was forced to be "shy" because I was living in fear. In fear of saying the wrong things, in fear of showing my emotion, in fear of being a human. I kept everything bottled inside for fear of being judged, or recieving a beating. That's why I was shy. That was my coping mechanism for most of my life.

I dug down deep inside and dealt with those things that were causing fear, and I started working at correcting them. I'm not entirely over being "shy", but I'm much more conversational and social than I've ever been, and I'm proud of that progress.

I've found that our behaviors are caused by chains of other things. My shyness was caused by fear. My fear was caused by pain. My pain was caused by other people. These people would tell me things, threaten me, or use physical violence to start that chain. Discovering what causes it is one half of the battle. Correcting it is the other half. Those flaws will always be with you, but you can make them less apparent.

 

[Julian]

Sure, why not? Sometimes it helps just to talk to someone.