Progress on eye contact, need advice on what next

[CoolRunning]

Me: 27 y/o, recovering WBAFC, no friends, never been on a date, barely talk to anyone outside work.

Confidence growing. I bought some new clothes, and I spent some time looking in one of those triptych mirrors at a Nordstrom, and I have to say that I look good. Damn good. Not great, but still good. The parts of me that I thought were ugly or strange aren't actually that bad. There's still room for improvement - for instance, I still haven't had the guts to start using product in my hair (stupidly worried about calling attention to myself at work, when people see me change) - but overall I am pretty impressed w/ my look. This is a HUGE step for me.

Now, as for social interaction, I still have none. I have gone to 7 area malls over the last couple weekends, and just tried to make EC with girls. It was tough to suppress the impulse to flick my eyes away at first, but now I'm pretty good at keeping them locked, and smiling after a second or two. I've been trying to add a wink in there as well, but when you're walking toward someone in a mall and they're walking toward you, there's not a lot of time, so I haven't really been able to work it in.

I'll spend an hour or two at a mall and really only have maybe 3 or 4 EC locks with girls. In my experience with this exercise, girls at the mall fall into several categories.

80% - Those who don't make EC with you. These are generally preoccupied (e.g. on the phone) or looking elsewhere. They just don't see you, and it feels like you're staring at them if you try to make EC. Not fun to look into someone's eyes who isn't looking back.

10% - Those who make split second EC with you. They're generally just looking around, and sweep their eyes past yours and keep looking on. They don't come back to you. I don't count meeting eyes with one of these girls as EC.

7% - Those who make EC with you for a few seconds, but either look away or don't smile back. If they look away, they look weak and vulnerable. It's not very attractive, and I'm now quite aware of how I appear when I look away. A lot of them don't smile back, either. Just kind of stare back. That makes me uncomfortable.

3% - These make EC with you, hold EC, and smile back.

I'd like to get more practice with this, but from the above ratios you can see that very, very few actually do the whole EC and smile back thing. It's unsatisfying to go to the mall for 2 hours and only get a couple EC and smiles. Do you have any tips on how to increase this?

Also, I feel like I can take the next step now, but I'm not sure how. 90% of the girls fall into the group that doesn't look at you, so I'm not sure how to start a conversation or say hi. Plus, for the ones that do make EC and smile, it all happens so fast - I wouldn't really have time to say hi before they already walk past. What are some good next steps you can recommend for me to take? Bear in mind where I'm coming from, that it took me several weeks and many hours of practice to get to this point. I've tried talking in a friendly way to clerks and salesgirls, but I always get self conscious that other people around will hear. ANY advice on what to try next (and places to try it) would be great.

Lastly, I was thinking of taking a Salsa class near here next weekend. I don't think I would be comfortable at all going to a bar or club alone yet. And I'm not sure what I would do, since I can't drink. But the salsa class would force me to be in a room with girls and talk to them. It is a drop-in class so if I got embarrassed I could just never go back. Do you think this is too soon, and do you have any advice on how I should carry myself or converse with people while there?

Thanks a bunch...

 

[white cloud 8]

Dude, you have to ask yourself if you want better, if the answer is yes, then start working on your inner self. Start to become more comfortable about how you perceive yourself, this sends off a vibe that you are more relaxed with your surroundings. Don't just stand around if you establish eye contact, do something about it e.g. if she establishes eye contact with you and continues to glance over at you, and, you don't approach, then she is wondering "why isn't he coming over to talk to me?". Remember that it is the guy's job to establish conversation with a girl (in most cases), and thats just the way life is. Just remember that the only person you can be is you, if the girl does not accept 'you' then she is not worth your time because why would you want to be with someone who doesn't like 'you' for being just 'you'.

BTW: review the DJ Bible (in the top right hand corner)

 

[DonMEgaHoss]

Strange for me I was in a mall today. And I got serious vibes from practically every female in visual range. And when they look away or down before you do its shows you are the dominate one not her. Women are naturally submissive and vulnerable, if you dont like that might want to consider if your not attracted to women period. Cause its a sign of interest for the most part unless they are preoccupied.. Geez...

Make sure you dress nice and/or look good in.. which should boost your confidence. I dont mean to bash but, you dont have the guts to even use some hair product? Change is good for the most part.. you want attention of ladies. Seems counter-productive.

Since your new do some searches on your problematic areas.. thats what its there for chief.

 

[CoolRunning]

Originally posted by DonMEgaHoss
Strange for me I was in a mall today. And I got serious vibes from practically every female in visual range. And when they look away or down before you do its shows you are the dominate one not her. Women are naturally submissive and vulnerable, if you dont like that might want to consider if your not attracted to women period. Cause its a sign of interest for the most part unless they are preoccupied.. Geez...

Make sure you dress nice and/or look good in.. which should boost your confidence. I dont mean to bash but, you dont have the guts to even use some hair product? Change is good for the most part.. you want attention of ladies. Seems counter-productive.

Since your new do some searches on your problematic areas.. thats what its there for chief.

Wait, how did you get serious vibes even from the ones that weren't facing you? Or did they all turn to look at you/face you? Do I need to improve my looks so that they do this? I already look pretty good. Above avg for sure.

 

[blinkwatt]

Slow down young grasshopper. Sounds like you are off on a great start. Take it one step at a time. If you feel like you could use more practice in an area,then practice. It took me about a year to be where I wanted to be with girls through ALOT of trial and error. It will come with TIME you can not jump from start to finish.

 

[CoolRunning]

Thanks, I definitely want to practice. Here are the chief problems with that.

a) I go to the mall for an hour to practice and only get 3 or 4 practices in (EC w/ smile). That's not very efficient, isn't there a better way? How do I get girls to make EC with me as I'm in the mall strolling around or sitting there? Is there some body language that I'm not doing?

b) I want to practice on weeknights as well. I don't think practice every weekend is going to cut it. Where are some good places to find 20-something girls on weeknights, where there are enough that it's time effective??

c) Does saying 'hi' or things work with girls you haven't made EC with? As I said above, 90% of girls don't make EC with me. What body language do you use to get their attention and start talking, etc?

 

[CoolRunning]

Sending this to the top 1 more time...if this is not the right place to get newbie advice, can you point me to a more appropriate place?

 

[\O/]

Ok, first you really need to improve your inner-game. You claim to be pretty happy with your looks, yet you somehow lacks confidence and still fear what people may think of you. You have to find out what causes these insecurities and deal with those issues first. You should read articles about finding your confidence, reframing and actually FEEL confident in everything you do. You can't take yourself so seriously. Who gives a **** what people think of you? Who are they?? If you can't even get yourself to put hairproducts in your hair, then I'm sorry to say that you still have a long way to go! But have no fear my friend You are well on your way.. The EC-experiment and saying "Hi" to strangers is a great way to boost your confidence. Always do this and it won't be a big deal after a while. But don't spend all your time in malls doing this. It's not productive in the end of the day..

You also need to be confident striking up conversations with strangers. Talk to anyone, anywhere. Start out small. Make it a natural part of who you are. Try this; Find an "opener" that suits you and a small story that follows the opener naturally. After making EC with a girl, approach her, give her the opener, tell the story and say "I have to go, it was nice meeting you". Then be on your way. Try this with many girls and I can promise you that your confidence will skyrocket and you will feel great afterwards. It's nothing at stake, so you can't fail or embarres yourself. Your only objective is to talk to the girl and deliver the story and excuse yourself. I've done this and it's great. Much better than just making EC and saying hi.

I don't think salsa-course is the best way to start. Instead I think you should focus on getting a more social life. Befriend some guys, hang out with them, learn to socialize better. You don't have to drink in bars/clubs. Infact, when you have high confidence, being sober and controlling the situations will give you a great edge and your success with women will be better. Mystery never drinks when he's picking up chicks. Most guys rely on alcohol for confidence, but the real goal is to be naturally confident! Read articles about bodylanguage and internalize those. Just mastering the "correct" BL will boost your game and confidence. When you dress like a king, and act like the king, you will feel like the king!! Fake it 'til you make it!

Read the bible a few times! Focus mostly on inner-game, then you can study techniques and routines if you like after having that part handled!

Good luck

 

[CoolRunning]

Thanks. My main problem now is not being able to make enough eye contact. This is NOT because I am too shy to look in a girl's eyes - I try to do it to every girl I pass. However, extremely few look back, to the point where I do have to spend hours in the mall. Is there something wrong I'm doing with my body language? Is it okay to open with a "hi" if she's not looking at you?

 

[So pimp its scary]

Here's what you do :

Keep doing this eye contact exercise, you're doing good. Now, when you run into those 3% girls you simply walk up to them and say : "Wow, you have beautiful eyes." and then keep walking.

You will probably run into a few girls that will walk past, but I can guarantee that some of them will stop you and start talking... especially the girls that have never been approached like that before.

The important thing to remember is that you are just giiving them a sincere compliment, with no other agenda.

Get back to me when you feel comfortable with that.

 

[\O/]

I don't agree with the beautiful eyes-comment. You have to act really confident and natural to pull something like that off and get the girl to chase you after giving that line.. It's not something you start out with. Also, complimenting her eyes without any rapport shouldn't be done. It's cheesy, clichè and it really makes your intentions obvious. Most guys can't get away with that without revealing an agenda. Many women will persive it as a lame attempt of a pickup. An overly confident guy with great looks can pull it off, but if that stuff worked we wouldn't need these kind of websites..

I think opening with a Hi if she hasn't even seen you can be a bit weird. Better to just open the girls you hold EC with and ignore the girls who won't look back. Most people don't look other people in the eyes while walking the streets or the mall. We have been taught not to stare at people and that it's rude etc. But just keep locking on to them. Some always look..then make a little smile and say "Hi".

 

[bbestar]

Do something outragous in the mall like.. Wear a wife beater with slacks to the mall, with your hair all spiked up and slippers. Walk around for a few hours and realize you don't have to care what others think about you. You become more comfortable in your own style.

 

[theSpeculator]

Forget about the mall approaches. Only playa who think they are all that go to mall to pick up chicks. lol. Realistically, most girl are there to shop and aren't expecting to get pick up. Hence the high percentage of girls making little eye contact. So don't let it bother you that most girls aren't checking you out.

It sounds like you still have a lot to learn and still have some issues with your self-esteem. I'm 21 right now and used to be in your situation when I first found out about sosuave. As for improving your self-esteem, the only advice I can give you is to keep working on it. And don't feel bad if you make some mistakes here and there. I've learned that the road to becoming a Don Juan is not straight. You move ahead 1,2,3 point then falls back 1,2 point before moving back up again. Hope this helps.

 

[CoolRunning]

If not the mall, then where? It's clear I need a ton of practice with talking to girls, and I realize that will take a lot of time to develop skills, but I'd like to be efficient as well. I am definitely aware of how much distance I have to cover (heck today was the first day ever that I overcame self consciousness and took a shower in my gym's locker room), but at the same time I want to make sure I focus on what will help me.

Which of the following would be preferable, which would be seen as weird or creepy?

a) Making EC with a girl at the mall, smiling, saying hi, trying to start a convo.

b) Walking up to a girl at the mall who I didn't have EC with, saying hi, trying to start a convo.

c) Starting a convo that's clearly me hitting on her, with a salesgirl while other people are right nearby and can hear.

d) Walking into the same aisle as a girl at Target, staring at the shelves for a minute, then saying hi and starting a convo.

e) Other specific recommednations?

Today, I got a takeout meal at this place near my house, and I started some small talk with the cute cashier. Just stuff like "Not real busy tonight, is it?" "I feel like I go through withdrawl if I don't stop in here once a week", etc. I would have tried to go further, but there was this lady sitting right nearby waiting for her order, basically just listening to us. What should I have done?

 

[raspliffarian]

ask open ended questions about her

put yourself in her shoes so she can relate to the fact that you relate.. its instant rapport

a small joke here and there... get the number... bail

you just have to establish contact and another meeting on your terms...

 

[So pimp its scary]

Originally posted by \O/
I don't agree with the beautiful eyes-comment. You have to act really confident and natural to pull something like that off and get the girl to chase you after giving that line.. It's not something you start out with. Also, complimenting her eyes without any rapport shouldn't be done. It's cheesy, clichè and it really makes your intentions obvious. Most guys can't get away with that without revealing an agenda. Many women will persive it as a lame attempt of a pickup. An overly confident guy with great looks can pull it off, but if that stuff worked we wouldn't need these kind of websites..

I think opening with a Hi if she hasn't even seen you can be a bit weird. Better to just open the girls you hold EC with and ignore the girls who won't look back. Most people don't look other people in the eyes while walking the streets or the mall. We have been taught not to stare at people and that it's rude etc. But just keep locking on to them. Some always look..then make a little smile and say "Hi".

I can see where you're coming from, that's why I specifically said to wait for the ones that hold eye contact. They'll generally be more forgiving... I also say that because it's good to start somewhere. And, the thing is, once you really have your shyt together it doesn't even matter WHAT you say anymore...

Now, you gotta understand that we are talking on different levels here. I'm not giving this guy a technique to pick up chicks... I'm giving the guy a technique to raise his confidence in approaching. These are two very different things that we're talking about.

Since you're being pciky about it... DO NOT SAY "You have beautiful eyes." (Like David D suggests, because it does work) INSTEAD walk up and say "Hi, I'm dooing an experiemt to help me get over my fear of approaching women that I find attractice. Thank you for helping."

Of course only with the girls that HOLD eye contact... the rest will likely not even stop, and you'll just get yourself frustrated.

 

[So pimp its scary]

Originally posted by CoolRunning
If not the mall, then where? It's clear I need a ton of practice with talking to girls, and I realize that will take a lot of time to develop skills, but I'd like to be efficient as well. I am definitely aware of how much distance I have to cover (heck today was the first day ever that I overcame self consciousness and took a shower in my gym's locker room), but at the same time I want to make sure I focus on what will help me.

Which of the following would be preferable, which would be seen as weird or creepy?

a) Making EC with a girl at the mall, smiling, saying hi, trying to start a convo.

b) Walking up to a girl at the mall who I didn't have EC with, saying hi, trying to start a convo.

c) Starting a convo that's clearly me hitting on her, with a salesgirl while other people are right nearby and can hear.

d) Walking into the same aisle as a girl at Target, staring at the shelves for a minute, then saying hi and starting a convo.

e) Other specific recommednations?

Today, I got a takeout meal at this place near my house, and I started some small talk with the cute cashier. Just stuff like "Not real busy tonight, is it?" "I feel like I go through withdrawl if I don't stop in here once a week", etc. I would have tried to go further, but there was this lady sitting right nearby waiting for her order, basically just listening to us. What should I have done?

Calm yourself down a little bit... I know you're eager to start macking on the girls with skill, but do yourself the favor and take the time to just pick something to start with where you can just keep walking. This way, you can try different tones of 'hello', different approaches, just to see a reaction and at the same time taking away from the rejection facto.

I doubt you've got a very thick skin yet... that's what you've gotta train for yourself.

 

[CoolRunning]

Good advice...but what is "something to start with where you can just keep walking"? A mall? Would it be creepy to, when walking past a girl in the mall, turn to her and give her a warm "Hey, how you doing!" then just smile and keep on walking? Or is that okay to do?

 

[theSpeculator]

CoolRunning, you need to calm down a bit like so pimp its scary said. I really don't think it's a good idea to be doing any more approaches at your state. There's a chance your self-esteem could become dependent on approval from girls. I know it may seems scary being 27 years old and not where you wants to be in life. But rushing things is not gonna make things better. It's really not that bad. Everyone starts somewhere. At the very least you are trying to do something about your problem so there's a chance you won't become one of those 40 years old losers. Try to be more a little more relax. And don't worry too much about girls or DJ. For now just focus on yourself.

As for your previous question, I don't think it's a good approach. You have to have confident and at least decent looking to pull that off smoothly. Otherwise it will come off weird. But if you want to know for sure, try it and see how it works out.