Pheromonal betas

Rainman4707

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Food for thought to the fapping discussions :-

From a bio-mechanical perspective, the indication is that men who consistently masturbate are essentially broadcasting their status as Pheromonal Betas – and women’s bio-chemical mechanics subconsciously registers this for them. Higher testosterone males manifest their sexual viability in both sexual assertiveness and scent. If you are chronically depleted of testosterone, and/or subjected to the calming effects of oxytocin your sexual viability is at a disadvantage. In fact, from an evolutionary standpoint, the beta males of our feral hunter-gatherer beginnings would be more prone to masturbation as a sexual release since, theoretically, they would’ve had less access to breeding opportunities than Alpha males. It would then follow that definitive, subconscious behavioral and chemical cues would evolve to aid females in selecting the best mate for parental investment.
 

taiyuu_otoko

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In fact, from an evolutionary standpoint, the beta males of our feral hunter-gatherer beginnings would be more prone to masturbation as a sexual release since, theoretically, they would’ve had less access to breeding opportunities than Alpha males. It would then follow that definitive, subconscious behavioral and chemical cues would evolve to aid females in selecting the best mate for parental investment.
Sounds kind of like a chicken and an egg argument.

Dudes can't get laid so they fap.

This gives off beta signals which keeps them from getting laid.

Or maybe a vicious fapping circle.

However, this does match with Napoleon Hill's idea that "highly sexed" males are more successful.
 

RickTheToad

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Food for thought to the fapping discussions :-

From a bio-mechanical perspective, the indication is that men who consistently masturbate are essentially broadcasting their status as Pheromonal Betas – and women’s bio-chemical mechanics subconsciously registers this for them. Higher testosterone males manifest their sexual viability in both sexual assertiveness and scent. If you are chronically depleted of testosterone, and/or subjected to the calming effects of oxytocin your sexual viability is at a disadvantage. In fact, from an evolutionary standpoint, the beta males of our feral hunter-gatherer beginnings would be more prone to masturbation as a sexual release since, theoretically, they would’ve had less access to breeding opportunities than Alpha males. It would then follow that definitive, subconscious behavioral and chemical cues would evolve to aid females in selecting the best mate for parental investment.
It's hard to calculate, if any loss of testosterone is due to the knuckle shuffle. One would be fair to assume that the same amount of free testosterone would be lost from sexual ejaculation too. Not many studies on this to prove one way or another.

 

Bokanovsky

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Food for thought to the fapping discussions :-

From a bio-mechanical perspective, the indication is that men who consistently masturbate are essentially broadcasting their status as Pheromonal Betas – and women’s bio-chemical mechanics subconsciously registers this for them. Higher testosterone males manifest their sexual viability in both sexual assertiveness and scent. If you are chronically depleted of testosterone, and/or subjected to the calming effects of oxytocin your sexual viability is at a disadvantage. In fact, from an evolutionary standpoint, the beta males of our feral hunter-gatherer beginnings would be more prone to masturbation as a sexual release since, theoretically, they would’ve had less access to breeding opportunities than Alpha males. It would then follow that definitive, subconscious behavioral and chemical cues would evolve to aid females in selecting the best mate for parental investment.
This sounds like pseudo-scientific mumbo-jumbo. How exactly does a female register if you've been ejaculating into a napkin as opposed to an HB10 vagina? The "bio-mechanical" process is exactly the same (as far as your penis in concerned).

I mean, where do people come up with these weird theories about masturbation? When you meet a girl, do you subconsciously detect if she's been pleasuring herself with a vibrator recently? No you don't. And neither does she know about your masturbation habits.
 

AmsterdamAssassin

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I wear my c**-stained boxers the next couple nights after I get laid.
How do you get semen stains in your underwear? You don't take off your boxers before you bump uglies?
 

AmsterdamAssassin

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When you meet a girl, do you subconsciously detect if she's been pleasuring herself with a vibrator recently?
If she queefs all over the place, I'm pretty sure her vibe has been busy.
 

AmsterdamAssassin

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It's hard to calculate, if any loss of testosterone is due to the knuckle shuffle. One would be fair to assume that the same amount of free testosterone would be lost from sexual ejaculation too. Not many studies on this to prove one way or another.

I'm living proof that masturbation doesn't kill your testosterone.

Some people shouldn't be so gullible.
 

Rainman4707

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It's hard to calculate, if any loss of testosterone is due to the knuckle shuffle. One would be fair to assume that the same amount of free testosterone would be lost from sexual ejaculation too. Not many studies on this to prove one way or another.

If i masturbate, it has a mental effect on me. I shrink. I feel all the power has left my body. I feel nowhere near the man i am. However, if i have sex with someone, i dont get those feelings. I feel great.
 

SW15

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I think there's some value to the idea that women perceive males who are regular masturbators as pheromonal betas. The difference that it is likely has on interactions is unknown. These men are men who are likely to be betas even if they aren't regularly masturbating.

I think that masturbation has increased since high speed internet became popular in the early 2000s. In the 1960s-1990s, accessing porn regularly was more difficult. It was some combination of print magazines, then VHS/DVD porn (1980s-1990s) and some higher tier cable subscriptions/pay-per-view stuff from a cable/satellite TV provider. The VHS/DVD and TV channel stuff is similar to high speed internet porn but even easier than that was. Even internet porn has changed since the early 2000s with the tube sites and then with the rise of the OnlyFans style porn. The era of high speed internet porn has made porn easier and more prevalent, so there's more masturbation going on. In addition, women have been leaning into their hypergamy and rejecting more men, and men are turning to easier to access porn and masturbating with it as a means of coping with the rejection of not being 6'0"+, fit/muscular, and possibly rich.

While no porn/no masturbation is a good practice, doing that only isn't going to turn a beta male into an alpha or sigma male. It would only be part of a larger effort. Most men will also need to improve their diets and exercise routines in order to achieve good enough looks. Attraction and seduction are a combination of looks, money, status, and personality. No porn/no masturbation is most likely to help with some vibe/personality issues and personality is the least important aspect of seduction. No porn/no masturbation's greatest help with looks is that it can help fix a PIED (porn induced erectile dysfunction) problem. Fixing a PIED problem can help with confidence on initial approaches but it's only a part of a larger solution.

Most men who do no porn and no masturbation get some initial surge in motivation to make approaches. However, after many months of the lifestyle, the surge diminishes. There is less motivation to make a large volume of approaches but still likely more motivation than a chronic porn watcher and masturbator would have. Over time, the difference in approaching in slight. It will also not make too much of a difference in the percentage of approaches that lead to a rejection, unlike physique improves.

No porn/no masturbation might help on the money front if a man can get more confident and present himself better on job interviews. I think the lifestyle does help for job interviews and in landing better jobs. However, it's a small factor in job search success as compared to macroeconomic conditions and conditions in a particular occupational field.

The bottom line is that no porn and no masturbation is a good life practice and should be encouraged but it won't be a cure all for the beta. In romantic interaction, a beta male who stops watching and stops masturbating is still likely to be a beta male and is only likely to get very incremental gains if any on no porn and no masturbation alone.
 

CAPSLOCK BANDIT

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Without scientific data which by the way totally contradicts what OP is saying this is just conjecture; controlling for scent would involve so many factors I just don't see how this would ever be realistically measurable in the first place
 

Vanderdonck

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The more I masturbate the hornier I am and the more dialed in sexually I am with women. Up to a point, I don't constantly jerk off of course. Abstention never made a difference other than I thought less about sex because I was doing other stuff. So I think this is mental based on your preconception.

Fyi the body is self.regulating and replaces testosterone (if it's lost) and of course semen. Homeostasis.
 

Rainrain

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I think there's some value to the idea that women perceive males who are regular masturbators as pheromonal betas. The difference that it is likely has on interactions is unknown. These men are men who are likely to be betas even if they aren't regularly masturbating.

I think that masturbation has increased since high speed internet became popular in the early 2000s. In the 1960s-1990s, accessing porn regularly was more difficult. It was some combination of print magazines, then VHS/DVD porn (1980s-1990s) and some higher tier cable subscriptions/pay-per-view stuff from a cable/satellite TV provider. The VHS/DVD and TV channel stuff is similar to high speed internet porn but even easier than that was. Even internet porn has changed since the early 2000s with the tube sites and then with the rise of the OnlyFans style porn. The era of high speed internet porn has made porn easier and more prevalent, so there's more masturbation going on. In addition, women have been leaning into their hypergamy and rejecting more men, and men are turning to easier to access porn and masturbating with it as a means of coping with the rejection of not being 6'0"+, fit/muscular, and possibly rich.

While no porn/no masturbation is a good practice, doing that only isn't going to turn a beta male into an alpha or sigma male. It would only be part of a larger effort. Most men will also need to improve their diets and exercise routines in order to achieve good enough looks. Attraction and seduction are a combination of looks, money, status, and personality. No porn/no masturbation is most likely to help with some vibe/personality issues and personality is the least important aspect of seduction. No porn/no masturbation's greatest help with looks is that it can help fix a PIED (porn induced erectile dysfunction) problem. Fixing a PIED problem can help with confidence on initial approaches but it's only a part of a larger solution.

Most men who do no porn and no masturbation get some initial surge in motivation to make approaches. However, after many months of the lifestyle, the surge diminishes. There is less motivation to make a large volume of approaches but still likely more motivation than a chronic porn watcher and masturbator would have. Over time, the difference in approaching in slight. It will also not make too much of a difference in the percentage of approaches that lead to a rejection, unlike physique improves.

No porn/no masturbation might help on the money front if a man can get more confident and present himself better on job interviews. I think the lifestyle does help for job interviews and in landing better jobs. However, it's a small factor in job search success as compared to macroeconomic conditions and conditions in a particular occupational field.

The bottom line is that no porn and no masturbation is a good life practice and should be encouraged but it won't be a cure all for the beta. In romantic interaction, a beta male who stops watching and stops masturbating is still likely to be a beta male and is only likely to get very incremental gains if any on no porn and no masturbation alone.
I agree with this. I think it’s more of an effort thing. Like, why invest time in trying to seduce, socialize, and look good with women when I can just jack off at home? In addition, I feel sleepy and unproductive when I jack off, in which includes doing house chores. It remind me of the ese 2 memes:

IMG_7971.jpeg IMG_7972.jpeg
 

SW15

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I agree with this. I think it’s more of an effort thing. Like, why invest time in trying to seduce, socialize, and look good with women when I can just jack off at home?
A regular porn watcher and masturbator will still find having sex better than masturbating. Obtaining sex is higher effort though.

The effort variable is worth more of a discussion.

More men have been experiencing a concept known as hoeflation. Hoeflation is meaning that men are having to put in more effort to attract/seduce women that are lower quality women than in past decades. Hoeflation has accelerated in the 21st Century.

Hoeflation and hypergamy are concepts that have been damaging to the beta male.

In the first 2/3rds of the 1900s in the USA, there was a bit of an understanding between women and beta males in the sexual marketplace. Due to cultural factors, women had some level of dependency upon males. Women needed men because women's rights and women's liberation had not gotten that far during that time. Women's rights had been a topic since the 1800s. The 1848 convention in Seneca Falls, New York was the first mainstream effort around women's rights in the USA. By 1920, women had earned the right to vote. From 1920-1960, changes for women were rather limited. More women had temporary roles in the workplaces during World War II when more men were fighting a war in Europe and in Asia. In the immediate post war era (1945-1959), women did take more supportive roles as wives and mothers to returning war veterans. Many young women of 1945-1959 ended up with beta males simply because of economic dependency and the cultural norms of the 1940s-1950s. It's also worth pointing out that a beta male of the 1940s-1950s was more traditionally masculine than the 2000s-2020s beta male.

3 major changes in the 1960s impacted the framework of interactions between women and beta males (majority of men).

1. The invention of the hormonal birth control pill in 1960
2. The rise of Second Wave Feminism (1960s-1980s era feminism). This was the most influential feminism wave.
3. The Sexual Revolution of the 1960s-1970s, which tied into Second Wave Feminism

The birth control pill was originally used by married women for family planning. It was less common for the unmarried, young women of the 1960s to be using birth control pills. Latex condoms replaced rubber condoms in the 1920s and condoms were gaining popularity by the 1960s with males. The 1960s was the first time when both a young male and a young female could both be using birth prevention methods simultaneously. This started to happen but was less common due to the influence of religion and culture. Many Christian faiths were anti-pre marital sex and contraception. Roman Catholicism was the most ardently against those two, as it banned its adherents from pre-marital sex and all forms of contraception use.

With items 2 & 3, women had more sexual freedom and started to gain economic freedom. These changes were gradual, but they led to women being less motivated to interact with betas and lean into their hypergamy. In the past, betas were useful for economic reasons but with women being able to earn their own incomes and support themselves reasonably well, betas were no longer needed for the most part. Women used their sexual freedom to chase after sex with the highest tier of men. The highest tier of men got the most access to sex while mid-tier men had to work harder to attract a more promiscuous woman than he would have gotten prior to the Sexual Revolution and Second Wave Feminism. For betas, there was a small window in the 1960s-1970s where they were able to get a small number of partners without having to put a ring on it. In the longer term, it made it more difficult for men the middle of the bell curve (the average frustrated chumps/betas) to be able to get laid.

Because it became more difficult for the mid-tier, average, beta male to get laid, he ended up watching more porn and masturbating more.
 

Manure Spherian

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Food for thought to the fapping discussions :-

From a bio-mechanical perspective, the indication is that men who consistently masturbate are essentially broadcasting their status as Pheromonal Betas – and women’s bio-chemical mechanics subconsciously registers this for them. Higher testosterone males manifest their sexual viability in both sexual assertiveness and scent. If you are chronically depleted of testosterone, and/or subjected to the calming effects of oxytocin your sexual viability is at a disadvantage. In fact, from an evolutionary standpoint, the beta males of our feral hunter-gatherer beginnings would be more prone to masturbation as a sexual release since, theoretically, they would’ve had less access to breeding opportunities than Alpha males. It would then follow that definitive, subconscious behavioral and chemical cues would evolve to aid females in selecting the best mate for parental investment.
I’ve been complimented on my odor by three different women. I don’t wear cologne and often forget to wear deodorant.
 

AmsterdamAssassin

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I’ve been complimented on my odor by three different women. I don’t wear cologne and often forget to wear deodorant.
You just smell like a stud muffin.
 
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