People arrested for dancing/kissing in public

[Ninja Dude]

This is fücked up!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jkHg3M6eUB8

Free country my left testicle!

 

[Ninja Dude]

Oh yeah, and be careful about feeding the homeless. Apparently that can get you jailtime as well:

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news...ess-feedings-arrests-20110601,0,7226362.story

Of course it's the "terrorists" who hate our freedom

 

[Atom Smasher]

It's not as simple as it seems. This is an isolated incident that escalated from emotion.

These kids are spoiled, arrogant little sh!ts to whom the idea of actually OBEYING the police is unthinkable. They could have obeyed the officer and then filed a complaint. Then these other kids are challenging the officers right in their faces. What are they supposed to do?

We also don't know exactly how these two little lovebirds were acting prior to the incident. The officers deemed whatever they were doing inappropriate behavior at a memorial where families and children are visiting. It's not the end of the world to obey the authorities who are trying to maintain a standard. PDA's are usually kind of uncomfortable for those in the general vicinity, hence most people's avoidance of that.

I'm the first one to state that there are lots of bad cops out there, but cops also have to walk an extremely fine line and make difficult judgment calls in very fluid environments. The shear arrogance of these kids shows through. It seems that nobody today can handle authority.

I've been told to stop doing that kind of thing when I was younger, and I just simply obeyed. I'm still alive, and none the worse for it. We have a tendency to demonize cops for everything in this country. Walk a few miles in their moccasins and you'll gain a better understanding of the difficult and complex judgment calls they need to make.

This is a case whre the circumstance itself took over and dictated everyone's behavior. But it started with hatred of authority.

 

[user43770]

Dancing, protesting or otherwise drawing attention to oneself is prohibited at the Jefferson Memorial. These Code Pink *******s knew that.

 

[ArcBound]

It's not as simple as it seems. This is an isolated incident that escalated from emotion.

These kids are spoiled, arrogant little sh!ts to whom the idea of actually OBEYING the police is unthinkable. They could have obeyed the officer and then filed a complaint. Then these other kids are challenging the officers right in their faces. What are they supposed to do?

We also don't know exactly how these two little lovebirds were acting prior to the incident. The officers deemed whatever they were doing inappropriate behavior at a memorial where families and children are visiting. It's not the end of the world to obey the authorities who are trying to maintain a standard. PDA's are usually kind of uncomfortable for those in the general vicinity, hence most people's avoidance of that.

I'm the first one to state that there are lots of bad cops out there, but cops also have to walk an extremely fine line and make difficult judgment calls in very fluid environments. The shear arrogance of these kids shows through. It seems that nobody today can handle authority.

I've been told to stop doing that kind of thing when I was younger, and I just simply obeyed. I'm still alive, and none the worse for it. We have a tendency to demonize cops for everything in this country. Walk a few miles in their moccasins and you'll gain a better understanding of the difficult and complex judgment calls they need to make.

This is a case whre the circumstance itself took over and dictated everyone's behavior. But it started with hatred of authority.

In addition to that look at the video's info section. He likens this one case as to living under a dictatorship. I've found that anyone trying to sell fear is trying to sell you something. Anyone whether its Alex Jones, conspiracy theorists or even regular media corporations. That's why when you turn on the news you hear about a hurricane, people getting shot, police brutality...In comparison a smaller amount of the news is about the good actions cops do. You're not going to sell a newspaper or online story with "Cops Use Measures to Detain Uncooperative Individual", but you will get tons of controversy, readership and revenue when you print "Corrupt Cop Beats Up Helpless SeniorCitizen/Infant/Etc."

 

[Ninja Dude]

This is a case whre the circumstance itself took over and dictated everyone's behavior. But it started with hatred of authority.

It started with a hatred of tyranny. There is a world of difference. I agree with you in one respect, the police are just doing their jobs and taking orders. They have families to feed and are paid to enforce the law, which is the crux of the problem.

Laws in America are increasingly destroying basic liberties. There was a time in this country when you had a right to an attorney and trial before facing any sentence. Police used to need a warrant to search your house and security checkpoints sure as hell couldn't handle your junk. Patriot Act and Homeland Security pretty much took care of that. At first their restrictions and rules seemed to make plausible sense, but they have taken far too much advantage of people's fears.

Now it's just gotten absurd - you can't dance casually in certain places, or feed homeless people. And your response as a freedom-loving American is to comply? I'm sorry but folks like you are a part of the reason corruption is so rampant in our government. I can only applaud people who have the courage to stand up against such draconian, control-freak measures which are slowly robbing this land of all the things that made it such a great place to live.

There is something seriously wrong when you can go to jail for this stupid bull****e, but if you worked on Wall Street and helped bankrupt the country, or for BP destroying an entire ecosystem (and job sector), you not only never see the inside of a cell, you are rewarded for your exploits!

But whatever, Code Pink is the real problem here. Clearly everything will be fine once these stupid hippies just learn to get in line and do as they are told.

 

[Ninja Dude]

PS - just because some shills make money off fear-mongering, conspiracy, etc. does not mean that there aren't legitimate reasons we should be concerned about the direction this country is headed.

We need to stop focusing on the kooks/opportunists and look at the real issues which directly affect us, our livelihoods and our futures

 

[ArcBound]

PS - just because some shills make money off fear-mongering, conspiracy, etc. does not mean that there aren't legitimate reasons we should be concerned about the direction this country is headed.

We need to stop focusing on the kooks/opportunists and look at the real issues which directly affect us, our livelihoods and our futures

A few decades ago it was illegal in some places for men to even walk around with shirts. Before that it was illegal to FLIRT in public. I say we've come a long way from that.

And a few isolated incidents like the one you posted does not equal the direction of the country. It's really, really easy to hi-light the bad cases and completely ignore all the good instances.

Not to mention like Atom Smasher said, the video already starts in the middle of the altercation. For all you know they were humping each other or doing some other undecent sh!t in public, at the memorial which is illegal. The thing is you don't know and can't know because the video conveniently leaves that part out.

 

[Ninja Dude]

We reached the apex of freedom From the 70s to the 90s. The sexual revolution and civil rights movement had seen their heyday and society benefited in a lot of ways.

Ever since 9/11 it's been downhill, though. I love how none of you are talking about the death of habeus corpus, or basic judicial rights or the ability to show charity in public. The fact that you stick your head this far into the sand is very worrisome to me as a fellow American.

As for the video here is a longer version where you see the buildup: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BvgVYEgWE88

To their credit the police did give them ample warning before taking them down. They were initially quite civil doing their jobs. Again, it's not the cops I take issue with, but the existence of these petty laws which must be enforced for no plausible reason.

I will say this much, the behavior of these protesters was totally pacific even if it was illegal. It certainly did not merit body slams or chokeholds. They did not bother, offend or do anything inappropriate. It's really, really sad and pathetic that anyone would side with the law here.

 

[Ninja Dude]

Let's talk about directions:

1. Economy - biggest recession since the 30's and how are we handling it? Creating an even bigger bubble of bailouts, printing more money, deflating the value of our currency until other global players no longer trust it. (Anyone here been keeping up with China?) We still outsource most of the manufacturing jobs, instead of taking the lead of smarter nations like Germany which imposed tariffs and stimulated local production. America needs JOBS, not more bills in circulation!

2. Justice - Your rights are eroding every day at an alarming pace. You can be jailed and even tortured without a jury of your peers. The Constitution (heart and soul of this nation's freedom) has lost it's significance. The Fourth Amendment is all but gone and you are a fool if you truly believe we have a First Amendment anymore.

3. Healthcare - this is such a clusterfück I don't even want to get too far into it. They want to privatize everything instead of doing what is proven to work in other countries, a partially socialized system that guarantees basic coverage for ALL its citizens.

I could go on but I can tell I am wasting my words on people of lesser awareness/intellect. Whatever guys, just keep watching those Jersey Shore reruns. America is just fine!

 

[user43770]

Get the fvck out of here with this BS. It seems like every week one of you enlightened activists comes on here stating your mental superiority. The Jefferson Memorial is a national monument! If you want to protest you can take that sh1t up the street. What's so Draconian about that? As for the body slams, it appeared to me that those hippies were purposely being difficult. I believe that could be viewed as resisting arrest.

 

[Ninja Dude]

Get the fvck out of here with this BS. It seems like every week one of you enlightened activists comes on here stating your mental superiority. The Jefferson Memorial is a national monument! If you want to protest you can take that sh1t up the street. What's so Draconian about that? As for the body slams, it appeared to me that those hippies were purposely being difficult. I believe that could be viewed as resisting arrest.

Again with the tunnel vision. Even if I am wrong about this whole dance charade, I take it you have an equally banal opinion on your lack of due process? Funny how not one of you will touch that particular hot potato. Orwell would be chuckling smugly right now.

For your further enlightenment you are no longer permitted to protest anywhere in the street either: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_speech_zone Sure you can talk about whatever you want, but only where and when the government says so (thank you very much George W Bush!) Next time try understanding the laws of your own country before participating in an educated discussion.

That said, I will retract my earlier statement, I think you guys are actually highly intelligent and full of potential.. you just also happen to be very ill-informed and stubbornly ignorant. Don't take that as an offense - most people are.

PS - I'd hardly call myself an activist. Look at my post history. I'm just a concerned citizen spreading information in hopes that someone out there has some common damn sense. I guess it's just not so common anymore

 

[Rogue]

Legal historians would quickly point out that weird laws have always been around. Even while the ink was drying on the Constitution, city and county municipalities have legislated restrictive laws which have remained on the books, sometimes for centuries, though usually rarely enforced.

In Florida, it's illegal to sing in a public place while attired in a swimsuit, and it's illegal to take a shower or bath while naked; missionary position is the only legal sexual position and oral sex is illegal. In New Jersey, it's illegal to "frown" at a cop and it's illegal to sell ice cream after 6pm unless a customer has a doctor's note. Somewhere in Minnesota it's illegal to say "fvck" within earshot of a minor. You could find a thousand other examples.

So, what's new?

 

[Ninja Dude]

Point taken Rogue. Weird local laws are nothing new. But when the weirdness pervades the Federal level, beware!

For example, every American has had the right to a fair trial since this country was started, yet most people don't seem to mind that this is no longer the case. The fact that this doesn't bother more folks does not bode well for the future of civil liberties in this country. The prevailing, apathetic idea that this is just "business as usual" will be the death toll for freedom in this land.

 

[user43770]

Again with the tunnel vision. Even if I am wrong about this whole dance charade, I take it you have an equally banal opinion on your lack of due process? Funny how not one of you will touch that particular hot potato. Orwell would be chuckling smugly right now.

Post some sources. I'm not going to believe something just because you said it.

For your further enlightenment you are no longer permitted to protest anywhere in the street either: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_speech_zone Sure you can talk about whatever you want, but only where and when the government says so (thank you very much George W Bush!) Next time try understanding the laws of your own country before participating in an educated discussion.

Free speech has always been limited. For example, you can't yell "fire" in a crowded theater. These free speech zones sound like they have the same intention: they are meant to prevent danger to the public. Try understanding the laws of your own country before you try to participate in an educated discussion.


That said, I will retract my earlier statement, I think you guys are actually highly intelligent and full of potential.. you just also happen to be very ill-informed and stubbornly ignorant. Don't take that as an offense - most people are.

There's the pretentious attitude that I've come to expect from posters like you.

PS - I'd hardly call myself an activist. Look at my post history. I'm just a concerned citizen spreading information in hopes that someone out there has some common damn sense. I guess it's just not so common anymore

I was being sarcastic when I called you an enlightened activist, hence the italics. Have a nice day.

Responses in bold.

 

[Ninja Dude]

On due process there is much to be said. This is not light reading, precisely the reason so few people even attempt to understand it.

http://www.independent.org/newsroom/article.asp?id=1184

Some common myths about the Patriot Act dispelled:

http://www.reformthepatriotact.org/facts.html

More from a lawyer

I will agree with you that freedoms do need limitations (precisely at the point where they infringe on other people's freedoms) But this country has worked just fine for over two centuries without any free speech zones. Our streets, avenues and plazas were once open to any voice and while it brought us some shameful BS like the KKK, it also laid the foundation for the civil rights movement, and public revolt against corrupt policies at home and abroad. To take away people's right to voice their opinion at any given time for "safety reasons" is just a cop-out. You are sipping on that Fear-Aid and forgetting the words of our Founders:

"He who sacrifices liberty for security deserves neither"

Random example: I recently went through security on an outbound flight and they tried to scan me. I've talked to several doctors who say it's not safe so I "opted out" and instead got some dude grabbing my crotch vigorously. I can understand the need to frisk but this guy was handling my junk for a WHILE. I pulled away and raised a bit of a scene. Since then I have filed a complaint, but the point is most people just sit back and let this sh*t happen - they have the same complicit attitude that you do. "It's for our own safety" - Parents sit back and helplessly watch while their toddlers and children are groped. It's a good thing I don't have kids. I'd surely end up in jail if anyone pulled this shít on mine.

Exhibit A: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VJNY_PTULO4
Exhibit B: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-3sH1GaO_nw

Dunno about you but that shít dont make me feel a lick safer on a flight. It just highlights the ineffectiveness of a system which is designed to protect us, but just ends up stripping our basic rights (like not being molested!)

I could get a lot deeper but time does not permit and I think I've made my point. Most people really do have no idea how much the laws have changed for the worst. I hope that at least some of this has some educational value for my fellow citizens.

PS - I apologize to all for my smug attitude. Patience is not my strong suit and I tend to lose it when people fail to see something I find so obvious. I really do need to work on that.

 

[ArcBound]

Let's talk about directions:

1. Economy - biggest recession since the 30's and how are we handling it? Creating an even bigger bubble of bailouts, printing more money, deflating the value of our currency until other global players no longer trust it. (Anyone here been keeping up with China?) We still outsource most of the manufacturing jobs, instead of taking the lead of smarter nations like Germany which imposed tariffs and stimulated local production. America needs JOBS, not more bills in circulation!

2. Justice - Your rights are eroding every day at an alarming pace. You can be jailed and even tortured without a jury of your peers. The Constitution (heart and soul of this nation's freedom) has lost it's significance. The Fourth Amendment is all but gone and you are a fool if you truly believe we have a First Amendment anymore.

3. Healthcare - this is such a clusterfück I don't even want to get too far into it. They want to privatize everything instead of doing what is proven to work in other countries, a partially socialized system that guarantees basic coverage for ALL its citizens.

I could go on but I can tell I am wasting my words on people of lesser awareness/intellect. Whatever guys, just keep watching those Jersey Shore reruns. America is just fine!

I never argued that these "directions" didn't exist. In fact I agree with you completely on at least 2 of the points. The article you posted hardly deals with any of the 3 things you posted above. You are jumping from two people being arrested in a situation to where we don't know all the facts to issues on health care and the economy.

If you want to make a thread about these topics then fine, but if you start making a thread about two people getting arrested and then blame everyone in the thread for not understanding the state of the country in terms of economics and healthcare and TSA groping children, then you are plain fvcking retarded. No sh!t no one is going to get what you are trying to say because none of us are psychics.

"I will say this much, the behavior of these protesters was totally pacific even if it was illegal. It certainly did not merit body slams or chokeholds. They did not bother, offend or do anything inappropriate. It's really, really sad and pathetic that anyone would side with the law here."

This is how the law works. There are a few police officers. And a LOT of crimes being committed. Especially in a city with that is known as "the murder capital" they cannot be spending a lot of resources on one couple breaking the law whether or not its pacific. The fact of the matter is those people were keeping valuable police resources from protecting other citizens, working on other crimes. You're not going to get 3 cops arguing with you for over thirty minutes if you would please stop breaking the law. The cops gave them ample warning and when they didn't listen, the cops decided they didn't have time to d!ck around.

If you want to argue the law you do that in a court room not by holding a fvcking flash mob in a memorial. Pretty sure every 5th grader knows this.

"Ever since 9/11 it's been downhill, though. I love how none of you are talking about the death of habeus corpus, or basic judicial rights or the ability to show charity in public. The fact that you stick your head this far into the sand is very worrisome to me as a fellow American."

Right cause its only after 9/11 when habeas corpus was suspended. Cause its not like it was being done ALL THE WAY BACK SINCE THE CIVIL FVCKING WAR. Just google abraham lincoln and habeas corpus and he was one of the biggest violators of habeas corpus in American history. MANY other times habeas corpus was suspended before 9/11

and I give you examples: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Habeas_corpus_in_the_United_States#Suspension_during_World_War_II

during World War 2 and 1996 after the Oklahoma City Bombing. Once again you are trying to sell fear. "ZOMG government taking away our rights since 2001 we must do something hur hur hur"

 

[Ninja Dude]

This is how the law works. There are a few police officers. And a LOT of crimes being committed. Especially in a city with that is known as "the murder capital" they cannot be spending a lot of resources on one couple breaking the law whether or not its pacific.

Agree 100%. They have much more important work to do. Which is why this law is completely useless, stupid and insulting to Americans everywhere.

If you want to argue the law you do that in a court room not by holding a fvcking flash mob in a memorial. Pretty sure every 5th grader knows this.

The only chance a case has to be re-opened in court is when people are aware of a condition which needs to be rectified. That's all this demonstration was, an awareness-booster and call to arms. Hopefully someone well-versed enough in these matters will take up the cause.

Right cause its only after 9/11 when habeas corpus was suspended. Cause its not like it was being done ALL THE WAY BACK SINCE THE CIVIL FVCKING WAR. Just google abraham lincoln and habeas corpus and he was one of the biggest violators of habeas corpus in American history. MANY other times habeas corpus was suspended before 9/11

I applaud your knowledge of history, and concede your amendment of my argument. While we are on this subject it's worth noting that what happened in 1996 wasn't a full-on suspension, it was a statute of limitations and that's a big difference. Before that habeus corpus was suspended for roughly four years (1862-1866) then 2 years (1942-1944). These were different times, back when we had wars with realistic objectives. Wars that could be won or lost.

The difference today is that we are fighting global terrorism and it's a perpetual fiasco. It's been 10 long years now and we just killed Bin Laden, but there is no sign of this crap slowing down. Our economy is wrecked. Schools, hospitals and firehouses are closing, yet we till invest billions a month on battles which rage indefinitely and are ultimately futile. Iraq is in worst shape now than it was under Saddam, Opium production is up in Afghanistan, Guantanamo is still open, it just goes on and on.

And yes it is true that I've covered a lot of ground in this thread precisely because to me this instance is not just a simple case of people not being allowed to dance. It is what these events symbolize (and the raging apathy seen here) which underlies a deeper issue tying all these themes together; and that is the myriad of ways that our freedom is under attack, coupled with American's tacit acceptance of it.

Fear is of no interest to me!

If that is your primary reaction then it's really not my fault you are a püssy. The only reaction I'm looking for is the one that gets shít done in these situations, and that is ANGER. Not enough people are outraged about what's going down and they should be, because these issues affect every last one of us. The very foundations of this great nation were built on individuals who were fed up and decided to do something about it. Those were true patriots, not the flag-waving U-S-A chanting fúcktards you see in almost every American neighborhood.

Dudes like to puff their chests and front like we are the champions of freedom and justice but at the end of the day the people in countries like Iceland are showing bigger balls than us in that department: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...celand-PM-faces-trial-over-bank-collapse.html

See that? It's called accountability a.k.a. not taking any shít. I really hope it proves to be contagious.

*crosses fingers*

 

[ArcBound]

Like I said I agreed with a lot of your points. But once again you start a thread on one thing and completely diverge onto radically different things and then get mad when we should have seen what was so "obvious" and call everyone who disagrees with you either a person being of "low intellect" or "a pvssy". That's why regardless of the validity of your arguments and views no ones gonna take you seriously.

 

[Atom Smasher]

These are the guys you want to worry about. And I'm not talking about the shooting of that piece of sh!t low-life. I'm talking about the ILLEGAL actions the cops took to get rid of video evidence.

Thugs with a badge. The guys at the monument were simply doing their jobs and dealing with arrogant punks who deserved what they got.

Check out what went down in Florida:

http://www.miamiherald.com/2011/06/02/v-fullstory/2248396/witnesses-said-they-were-forced.html