Patriots Domination: It's People Don't Think.

A-Unit

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If you live in New England, this is the high time of sports.
If you live in New England, you also hear quite ALOT of complaining over the patriots "running" up the score in a Professional Football Game.

ARE FAWKING SERIOUS?

I'm not angry because are attacking the Patriots, number one always gets criticized for why they shouldn't be Number One. I'm angry because these same IDIOTS actually have an influence on society with their equally POOR decisions and choices, and have no demonstrated a modicum of logic or thinking.

[1] At what point do people grow up, stop being babies, and play football, is this not pro football, where they get millions in sponsorship and contracts?

[2] NFL Football rosters are not big enough to SUB the whole team out. You could move brady out, which they did, but you can't take the WHOLE def or OFF out.

[3] If they COULD put JV players on the field and still kicked the Redskins in the arse, wouldn't that also be embarrassing?

[4] Is it not the REDSKINS who should be ashamed and made fun of? Are these not grown men who play a pro sport and should be able to handle someone of supposedly equal caliber?

[5] How can you ask a PRO player to turn down their INTENSITY and not score and not push themselves, in light of next weeks match up?

[6] So Peyton and Steve Young and other great QB's doing it doesn't matter, but when the Patriots and their QB do it, it's a horrible demonstration of sportsmanship. Geez, guess that Camera-gate scandal hasn't died yet.

[7] They took the measures in the 4th quarter and they STILL could not stop them. We sent in the 2nd and 3rd string qb. It wasn't time to kneel. Kicking a field GOAL guarantees points, which is MORE insulting, and they did have a 4th string rb, and a 4th wr catching passes from players OTHER than brady.

Its just exasperating to see so much stupidity. THIS IS PRO FOOTBALL. Wouldn't it be impressive to see 100 points scored by 1 team in a pro game? I don't get why there's all this sensitivity when only just 6-7 weeks ago a few players were nearly paralyzed? And the money that this sport rakes in! Has no one seen Playmakers or Any Given Sunday, or heard Ted Johnson's Concussions stories? THIS IS HARDCORE WAR.

Ayn Rand must be rolling over in her grave, because this is EXACTLY what people did to John Galt, Dagny Taggart and others...expected them to diminish their own greatness because other's were too week to handle it and too weak to fight back.

It's sickening. There should be a license to procreate, and a test on thinking.


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Skel

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I live in New England. Im a huge Patriot fan. Most who live in NE are Giant fans though. I hear **** talk from my friends all the time, even my father. I guess it just goes with the territory. If your team is winning people will always hate and talk junk. I still here crap about how Vini kicked a field goal in the winter in the superbowl and now he's a traitor because hes not playing for NE anymore. People are idiots, seriously.
 

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It's a kick ass time to be in Boston right now if you're a sports fan. The Patriots may go undefeated, the Red Sox are World Champs, the Celtics aren't going to be bad at all, and everybody forgets that Boston College is #2 in the BCS!!!!!!!

Must be nice. I don't see how anybody could complain right now.
 

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Bruins and Red Sox are my primary team to root for (although I'm keeping an eye open on the Celtics).

The Patriots I could give a sh!t less about. I've been a Seahawks fan since the Largent days back in '88.

They're good but I don't the defense can handle the offensice onslaught of the Colts this week.
 

Skel

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KarmaSutra said:
They're good but I don't the defense can handle the offensice onslaught of the Colts this week.
The same thing could be said for colts defense. Pats have a bit of a better D this year than they did last time they faced off against the colts. Not only that but they have better O now too. Either way its going to be a good game. As it stands now I think the patriots are a +5 on the betting sights even though they play in Indi.
 

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Re:

I'd take that +5 on The Pats. ALL DAY. EVERY DAY.

The pats will SMOKE indy. It's much the same as the Sox vs Colorado. Indy is NOT in the same league. The Pats D is AT LEAST 50% better than the Colts. The Pats offense, as freaky as it is now, is 50% better than the Colts.

Moss vs Harrison (Moss wins)
Welker/Stallworth vs Wayne/Gonzalez (New England Wins out)
Maroney/Eckel/Faulk/Morris/Evans (Keith/Addai, slight edge to Addai)

Brady vs Peyton (Tie)

Defense:

Harrison vs Sanders (Tie or edge to Harrison)

CB's:

Samuel, Gay, Merriweather vs Indy's (Marlin Jackson, etc, NEW ENGLAND WINS)

D-Line, LBs.

Patriots, Easily. Wilfork, Green, Warren, Seymour, Thomas, Vrabel, Bruschi, Seau. No question.

There isn't a defender who can shut down the Pats offense down completely. There will ALWAYS be a man open. There will always be a completion possible. I cannot say this of Indy. Indy hasn't faced a real challenege this season, and they have also not blown any teams out demonstrating offensive dominance. This the patriots do. Two defenders can't even cover Moss. He has the height and speed and hands. Harrison loses on the height factor, and he can be doubled if need be. Wayne is a bit more physical, but still, 2 defenders would close him down. The only OPEN receiver you may see would be the TE, which I've seen alot of against the Patriots, because they will force you to use your LEAST favorite method in order to achieve success.

Even LT had a wicked time against our D.

I just don't see +5 as the minimum. I think it's 7, maybe 10 or more. I'm that confident in everything I've seen. Brady has a MINIMUM of 5 seconds on alot of plays, and that's too much time for the speedy Receivers we have to get open.


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ValleyDJing

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Don't worry...Brett Favre aka Jesus Christ and the Pack will put you guys in your places during the Super Bowl (again!!!). Sorry in advance for spoiling your perfect season.
 

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Re:

What are Colts fans thinking?

I'm listening to Boston Radio, and hearing these DELUSIONAL Colts fans thinking we will...aghast, LOSE?!?!?!??!

Teams the Colts Beat:

-New Orleans (their offense isn't clicking and they are now 3-4)
-Tennessee (still too young, no clear rb, no real wr)
-Houston (suffered some poor injuries early on, no real rb)
-Denver (reeling with a rookie qb, a rb who hasn't done much, an injured walker, and a poor defense)
-Tampa Bay (are you kidding me? they've gotten worse this year, no qb, cadillac is busted, and galloway has been their only talent, defensively very old)
-Jacksonville (good, but no wr has stepped up, the 1-2 punch of rb's is nice, and garrard has been conservatively efficient)
-Carolina (blah, not the team we once thought, no one lines up opposite smith, no rb has broken out in a big way, they need to commit to d williams)

Teams the Patriots Beat:

-Ny Jets (terrible, deserving of a firing)
-SD Chargers (arguably the most talented Offensively, til the pats)
-Buffalo (reeling and failing)
-Cincinatti (the most potential, the most convicts)
-Cleveland (surprising many offensively)
-Dallas (the best in the NFC, stil destroyed by NE)
-Miami (terrible, as evidenced by shipping away Cpep and Chambers and Welker, and McMichael)
-Washington (never beaten by Brady til, and the reason the Pats are accused of running the score up)

Outside of Dallas and oddly Washington, the NFC, like the NL, hasn't presented much of a challenege.

The Colts look good, because they've only played one good team...jacksonville. It's POOR teams that have made the Colts D look good. The real superbowl match up is now, b/c if the Colts or Pats go again, someone will get decimated.

People who don't watch the Pats, or play fantasy football, don't get a large enough perspective on all the teams to know who's good and who isn't. Welker and Stallworth are equal to MANY teams NUMBER 1-2's. Moss, however, is unparalleled. Many of his catches are double and triple covered 1 handers. (Go check youtube). He has caught fewer balls than Welker because he covers more terrain when he does, OR, he scores on them.

Brady has had 4-5+ seconds in the pocket, Colts don't have threatening LB's, and Freeney is about the only pass rush that presents a challenge. I was more afraid of what SD would bring with Merriman & CO. than the Colts. Even Dallas more frightening. I know the colts D is playing good, but consider their Qbs and Wr's they are playing against:

NO - Brees, Bush, Colston, Henderson, Moore
TEN - Young...fill in the blank on WR's here.
HOU - Schaub, Andre Johnson (injured)
DEN - Cutler, no walker, Marshall
TB - Garcia, Galloway
JAX - Garrard, matt jones, williams
Carolina - CARR, Smith

I'd say Only Smith as a WR has ACCOMPLISHED himself year after year as threat EQUIVALENT to moss, even then, moss is still better and more threatening. His height gets him over most CB's, and his speed puts him ahead of most cb's. Welker and Stallworth have PERFORMED better than Galloway and Johnson. I know people love ANDRE Johnson, but he's either never had the QB or never been healthy enough to put it together. EVEN to thinks AJ is awesome. But he's screwed b/c it's HOU.

RB's...

NO- BUSH
TEN- Fat Lendale White, Chris Brown
HOU- Ahman Green (inj), and RBBC
DEN- Travis Henry, Selmon Young
TB- Caddillac (INJ), Michael Pittman, Michael Bennett
JAX- JONES-DREW, TAYLOR
CAROLINA - DWILLIAMS, DFOSTER

I'd say the only threat based on performance was JACKSONVILLE. All the others have POTENTIAL, but haven't put it together recently. Despite the hype Henry hasn't achieved what portis or the bells have in the past. And most of the other rb's are injured or RBBC'ed.

The pats are KILLING bad teams and sitting Brady by the end of the 3rd, early 4th quarter. And when he doesn't sit, they throttle back randy and let players like Eckehl, Gaffney, Stallworth and the TE's get involved. Much of the reason they score easily so late is because the defense is just cooked and isn't operating at full intensity. If it's 30+ points or more up on you, and it's 4th quarter, as a CB or LB, are you REALLY running balls out?? No. Hell no.

The Defense for most teams facing the pats can just not keep up with 3 wr's who are so good, and te's who get open and make plays. That's at least 4 recievers who get unfair matchups. There isn't enough talent at safety or cb or lb to cover everyone and NOT find an open receiver.

I'd argue that the pats are equal to or better than Peyton during his historic, record setting year. However, due to key losses, the colts are NOT as good. They lost a GREAT 3 wr, who had 1000yards and 8+ td's that year, and edgerrin james, who was better in indy than Addai, until proven otherwise.

The fact is, most people are being 'homers'. I understand that. They hate the pats, b/c in an era of salary caps, the pats have put together 1 heck of a dominate team. However, most don't look at the facts and figures to understand what's going on and are only looking like fools.

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cordoncordon

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Oh, you can't see the Colts winning? They have only:

beaten New England 3 straight times

started the past 3 seasons 13-0, 9-0, and now 7-0

just killed a very good Jacksonville team on the road on Monday night and then came back, on the road, and killed a good Carolina team 6 days later. That is hardly ever done-having to play a road game after a road Monday night game

the best record in football the past 7 years

just won the super bowl

3rd in the league in defense, 4th in offense

have won 12 straight going back to last year

not lost at home in forever

playing at home against New England

OK
 

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cordoncordon

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Lets see...

Patriots opponents record in 2007 is 24-34, a 41% win %.

Colts opponents record in 2007 is27-24, a 53% win %, with 3 of those wins being division wins on the road, and two road wins back to back 6 days apart following a monday night game.

Who has played the tougher schedule now?
 

Bible_Belt

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Colts v Pats is the reg season game of the year.

I would actually like to see the Pats stomp the Colts and then go on to finish their perfect regular season. I am rooting for the Pats on Sunday, because I think the winner of this game will roll into their inevitable playoff matchup overconfident and running out of momentum. Then it will be a perfect David-v-Goliath upset, where Dungee and the Colts stun the sorta-perfect Pats, condemning them to carry an eternal asterisk in the record books. After the Colts win back-to-back Super Bowls, all the Pats dynasty talk will go down like the Y2K bug, much ado about nothing.
 

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Espi said:
Your post, AU, is well conveyed...but I just don't think the Patriots are that great, really...their division sucks, their head coach is a certified moron, and Tom Brady is very overrated (there is, after all, a reason the fatassed coach picked him in the latter rounds of the NFL draft).

Now, Brady is a decent QB, but once he's injured (and he will get injured; it's just a matter of time), the offense will collapse and be revealed as mediocre team. Randy Moss will renew his *****ing-a$$ antics...Did you watch the Cowboys game? Did you notice in the early part of the game that Moss was getting frustrated and was quitting on his routes? Trust me: it will not take much for Moss to flip into moronmode: he's done it everywhere he's been, from high school to pros. Fatman Belicheck may think he can control Moss, but no one can...Moss is talented, but he is moreso a freaking gangrene cancer...and the Pats are going to suffer for it...if not this season, it will be next season.

Also, camera-gate controversy aside, I suspect that a majority of Pats are on steroids...I mean, Teddy Bruschi, a 33-year-old man, suffers a stroke??? Are you fvucking kidding me? NO 33-year-old man suffers a stroke...unless he's doing drugs...maybe he got his supply from Rodney Harrison. Also, Tom Brady has been conncted to Eric Anderson, the trainer and steroid supplier for Barry Bonds. Brady, in fact, is from the same hometown as Anderson...same high school, too.

Are the Pats one of the elite NFL teams? Perhaps. But they do not deserve to be in the upper echelon of NFL dynasties, a la Green Bay, Pittsburgh, and San Fran.

They are if anything a Dynasty Junior, a team which has mainly benefitted from the NFL's weakest division...
Yikes and gadzookes!
 

A-Unit

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Re:

BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH

The teams indy played are CRAP, and in some cases, they barely BEAT them.

Who has 3 sb rings? Yes, thank you.

Who has had NASTY wr's since day 1 of being in the NFL?
Who now has his new toys and will not only beat, but DECIMATE Peyton's own record, AND, set new records already?

Not one WR in the past 7 years has been AS good as Reggie Wayne. Deion Branch or Troy Brown was about as good as Stokely. Now he has 1 Harrison, and 2 Waynes, and a bunch of Stokelys.

You guys are delusional. Just watch. I do think indy will move the ball. But I don't think its going to be very spectacular.

It will certainly be a challenge. Have we forgot when Denver, SD, KC, etc were dominant?

NOW ne is on par offensively. They've always been better defensively.

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cordoncordon

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I really wouldn't call Tenn. or Jack. crap. They beat them on the road as well.

Again, if Indy's opponents record is crap, who has beaten all of its opponents and who have a 27-24 record, then what does that say about NE and its opponents who have a 24-34 record?

I'm just amazed you are soooooooooo ****y going into INDY, the super bowl champs, who are undefeated, at home, who have killed just about everyone, and WHO HAS BEATEN NEW ENGLAND 3 STRAIGHT TIMES!! I find it even better than I am hearing so much overconfidence coming from the likes of you New England fans, because we all know what happens to those who think they are invincible......they fall.

You New England fans crack me up, so uppidty, so ****y, so boastful. Not willing to give the opponent any respect. You don't see that coming out of the Indy fans mouths, and you never will. They are the super bowl champs, and yet can give credit where credit is due...that NE is playing VERY well.

You and the other NE fans?? Can't.
 

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For starters, I was a NE Patriots fan that Respected Indy, and feared them above all. When Wr after Wr would go by and NE wouldn't make any moves, I'd cringe KNOWING that Brady and our Defense would be the only thing that would get us into the playoffs.

Sure, their Wr's could catch balls, but it was ALWAYS very iffy and had to be big plays. If luck and skill never went their way PERFECTLY, they wouldn't win, this is why they won SB's by such low margins. I've always watched Peyton with jealousy, knowing if Brady had have decent WR's, a true 1 and 2, he could do ALOT.

After his first SB, his accuracy was unbelieveable. I remember watching him thread the needle in early season games with perfection. Yet, all the people who only saw highlight reels or the few national games they could, would never know how GOOD he is. I'd say he's a cross between Favre and Peyton. He has game management skills, coupled with a very cowboy-like attitude to big plays. Peyton has always appeared more calculating in his big plays, and Favre can go either way, normally if his big plays work, he puts up numbers and wins.

However, it was always Kraft's philosophy to manage his team properly. They would spend appropriately, and the Sox have in some ways adopted this mentality also. To comment on the draft pick positioning comment posted by someone who is evidently not very astute with football knowledge...MOST of the 1st rounders don't work out in the long-run. More than 50% ARE NOT even in the nfl, even fewer actually live up to the hype.

More TOP qb's have NOT performed. Need I comment on all the ones who are in their 3rd+ years not doing jack squat? Harrington, Carr, Grossman, Losman, Alex Smith...er, that GB qb behind Favre? The list goes on and on. Peyton is a rare 1st rounder, much lt was, who EXCEEDED expectations. That's why the Pats do not OVERpay or OVERdraft. They've never really gone for a LB early in the Draft, b/c they require so much of their Lb's.

Patriots players are very task oriented, but can fill multiple roles if need be. Such as Vrabel, or Troy Brown.

In 2007, NO teams are putting up a fight. I play fantasy football in addition to watching NFL pro football hardcore, and I'm not impressed. Cincy is WAY below expectations. The only team REALLY exceeding themselves, IMO, is Cleveland. Even Carolina, who was billed as the AUTOMATIC sb winner a few years back FAILED. They are nothing. No consistent RB. Defense is in shambles. Jake is injured and playing below himself.

IMO, all those teams you list, if they are deemed "challenging" as you put it, really means INDY is NOT WHO WE THOUGHT THEY WERE. You see, the pats may have an easy schedule, but they DECIMATE teams. Look around, you can hear all the people complaining. Frankly folks, WHO CARES. It's PRO FOOTBALL, not pop warner. They get MILLIONS to do this. ADvertisers make MILLIONS. Who wouldn't want to see a great show on turf? If another MULTI MILLION DOLLAR team cannot field a worthy team for 60 minutes, SCREW THEM. Run the score up. Embarrass them. This is PRACTICE for the SB. Why would you THROTTLE back? At what point do you go all out? When do you put FULL focus? How do you know when to cut back your intensity, when all week long you practice to be 110% focused? I don't get people, and no one will change my mind that they should go to 100 if they can against one. Up until now people doubted Brady or the Patriots. No more.

****y? No. Loaded with facts and examples.Frankly, there isn't anyone BUT indy who is worthy. Few teams have a decent QB, and that's where the win comes down to. How they drive the offense and handle the ball. Whenever I see a shaky QB, I know they will lose. I just don't see INDY's D matching up against the Offense. Randy Moss is too good. he doesn't need timing. And we have many other WR's.

We went FAR last year, even after we lost Branch and had a very decimatedDefense. We built ONTO a team that was 1 game away from the SB...and basically DOUBLED our ability. I gave INDY credit for their win. It was a season of destiny last year. It really was. It was a year or 2 late after their coach's son's sad suicide. However, their time has come and gone. I'm sorry, Indy. It isn't ****iness. It's someone who's watched all the games and get's a feel that this is the Pats and anyone else is deluding themselves. Until now, I feared the Colts. No more. We have just too many weapons, and oddly enough, MORE than the colts for once.


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seanchai

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The thing that bothers me about NE isn't that they run up the score (they play the way anyone who is any good at Madden plays, and that's fun to watch) but the little things they do on the way. Like going for it on 4th and 2 when they're 14 points beyond the greatest ever comeback differential. Ever since their Pop Warner days, these players have been taught that that's poor sportsmanship, and it grates on me in that respect.

I don't want Brady to get injured, but last weekend would've been the perfect opportunity for an 11 man blitz that put him HARD on his ASS. Who cares about the touchdowns at that point? I would've liked to see Sean Taylor hit Brady so hard he vomited, a la Reggie Bush last year in the NFC championship game. In fact, if I was the defensive coordinator of a terrible team on the Pats schedule, the 11 man blitz is all I'd ever call in the 4th quarter.
 

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Thank you A-Unit!!

I wrote the following up the other day after reading an article on Yahoo about how Cowher was saying someone should take a "cheap shot" at Brady:

Over the last few days, I've heard a lot of people taking offense to the Patriots continuing to play full-on football against the Redskins last weekend. "It's unprofessional!" "It's unsportsmanlike!" "There's no call for it!" "It's classless!" And now this talk that someone is going to take a cheap shot at Tom Brady.

I disagree. I say it's VERY called-for and it's VERY sportsmanlike.

This is PROFESSIONAL football. It's not some junior pop-warner league where the coaches are more concerned with building players' self-esteem than winning football seasons. In a junior league, coaches will bench their starters to get their underlings playing-time and avoid crushing the spirits of the opposing teams' players, given the disparity of player and coach talent.

This is the NFL. If your self-esteem is not good enough to take a thorough beating, then you don't belong in the NFL. If you're going to cry when another team runs up the score against you, then you don't belong in the NFL. Belichik and Tom Brady are not being paid millions of dollars to look out for your feelings. They're not being paid that money to be "classy". They're paid to provide a dominant football franchise to the citizens of Boston and fans around the country. That's what they're doing. If that bothers you, then don't take the field against them.

There are PLENTY of reasons for the Pats to continue running up scores on lesser teams. Here's a few:

1) If Belechik benches his starters at halftime every game because the Pats are up 40-0, the starters get used to only PLAYING half a football game. When a team like the Colts comes up, where they're going to need Tom Brady and his boys to put up 60 minutes of solid football, they can't be running out of steam halfway through. They need to learn to play their A game for the entire length of the football game.

2) This isn't the Super Bowl, the last game of the season. There are other upcoming games against better teams. The Patriots are trying to send a message to those teams. That message is, "we will not just beat you, we intend to thoroughly embarass you." You may think that NFL players don't respond to intimidation attempts, but all the talk of "classlessness" shows otherwise. They are obviously afraid to play against such a dominant team, and this psychological warfare only helps the Pats win the games ahead of them.

3) Many people say it's "unsportsmanlike" to run up the score once the other team has no chance of winning. I disagree. I assert that it's "unsportsmanlike" to NOT give 100% effort for the entire game. Think about it...what's worse? Going at it with all you have and thoroughly dominating the other team, or putting in your starters and playing a half-ass game, essentially patronizing your opponent? By not playing REAL football once the score is up so far, you're essentially stating that the other team is not worth your time. How sportsmanlike is that??

You know what's "unsportsmanlike"? Not knowing how to take a loss. Whining after you get thrashed about how a "classy team wouldn't have run up the score like that". Talking about how someone should take a "cheap shot" at the quarterback because you're upset about losing. If you don't want the Pats running up the score against you, play better defense.

These whiner-teams are the same teams who get beat down 30-0 in the first half, then when the other team starts being "classy" and plays conservative in the second half, they score a couple of quick touchdowns that essentially don't matter in the flow of the game, then go home and feel like they put up a good fight. You didn't put up anything.

When the winning team "goes easy" on the losing team toward the end of the game, the losing team takes their sudden resurgence as some sign of worthiness to compete with the winning team. Thus, the losers never bother to improve. A thorough beat-down is necessary for a team to acknowledge how far it has to go. It also builds character and shows who BELONGS in the NFL and who doesn't.

The Patriots are exemplary of superior players and superior coaching. I'm not a Pats fan, but I respect what they're doing: taking the NFL to the next level in terms of competition, teamwork, and raw talent. They've always been a superior team, even when Brady didn't have the supporting cast he does now. There are no "superstars" on that team. Even the superior players on that team know their roles and play them to perfection. It's about time some of these prima donna thugs around the NFL got smacked down HARD by the likes of Tom Brady, Randy Moss, Daunte Stallworth, and Wes Welker. Essentially, the Patriots are a wake-up call to the NFL.

And still there are teams out there who refuse to heed it, instead complaining about how their feelings have been hurt by "getting the score run up against them". If you don't like the score run up against you, play better defense.

A cheap-shot at Tom Brady? If I was the commish, I would send a signal to the league that ANYONE taking an obvious intentional cheap shot at ANY player will be EJECTED from the league, permanently. The people who talk out one side of their mouths about "unsportsmanlike" behavior and out the other talk about sullying the spirit of the game by encouraging "cheap shots" to level the playing field are stupid. That includes Cowher and all those other guys who gave up football to sit in front of a TV camera and run their jaws. All a cheap-shot at Brady or anyone else would be at this point is an admission that NO TEAM IN THE NFL CAN LEGITIMATELY BEAT THE PATRIOTS.

Besides, let's get right down to it. The Patriots are the team that everyone loves to hate. They provide a true "heel" for the NFL, an unstoppable juggernaut that every fan can either rally for or against. The Pats are the Yankees of football...and they did it even under the cap system. Tell me that the recent actions of the Patriots haven't brought a ton of passion into this Sunday's game between them and America's golden-boy, Peyton Manning. THIS kind of rivalry is what the NFL is all about. So stop yer *****ing and hope to God your team's defense is good enough.
 

PRMoon

Master Don Juan
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Hmmm Boston dominates in baseball, college and pro foot ball and what's this?! The Celtics have KG, Paul Peirece AND Ray Allen! I remember reading somewhere that this was the sign of the apocolypse coming.
 
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