Overcoming shaming - being different

[Heretolearn]

So how do you guys handle it.

1. A lot of people always assume that I will date someone my own age (32).

Eg. girl is 23, they will say she is way too young for you


I could correct them and say that age is nothing (although it is a stupid debate/discussion). Do you just take it or what?

2. Yesterday a girl (30) sees me with a 21 year old and then the 30 yr old starts telling me how she did not know how to have sex until 30 etc etc. Obviously overplaying the experience vs youth.


3. Even had older women (and Men) who are happily married to childhood sweethearts tell me that I will end up old and lonely and will not be able to have kids when I am older. Saying apparently studies are now showing old guys sperm is the cause of a higher risk of birth defects. Any truth to this?

*no 3 issues are from my work (professional work environment with old fashioned 'stability' family man values (expect MAJOR hypocrisy as these guys play up when on business trips...yet for work functions, I am expected to have a happy family)


It frustrates me to have opposition/these conversations.

Do you just have to be a man and deal with dissenters? Any tips to handle these situations in a cool social way to keep the interactions flowing although politely shut down these topics.
thanks

 

[Jitterbug]

Easy one. Always agree with them right away. To defend your position by disagreeing with them openly, you're only inviting more attacks. They can't help it. However, it's very hard for people to argue with someone who agrees with them. By agreeing with them, you kill the attack straight off the bat, then quickly change the topic (if you're stuck with them for a little while), like to their all-time favourite one: themselves.

#1: "she's too young for you"

"I know, I worry about it sometimes, but love knows no age boundary unfortunately. I'm really falling for her. Btw how's your son going at gymnastics? I love the little guy's enthusiasm!"

#2:

"Yeah she is inexperienced, which is why I'm training her daily. I should send her to you for advice eh? Hey I need an expert's opinion on fashion for a Christmas gift..."

#3:

"Yes I know. It's a worry eh? I've been unlucky in love so far, but I'd kill to have a family & marriage like yours. Btw is your son graduating this year or next? He's such a smart young bloke!"

####

You get the idea. Call it Agree & Deflect, a cousin of Agree & Amplify

 

[Wilko]

Easy one. Always agree with them right away. To defend your position by disagreeing with them openly, you're only inviting more attacks. They can't help it. However, it's very hard for people to argue with someone who agrees with them. By agreeing with them, you kill the attack straight off the bat, then quickly change the topic (if you're stuck with them for a little while), like to their all-time favourite one: themselves.

#1: "she's too young for you"

"I know, I worry about it sometimes, but love knows no age boundary unfortunately. I'm really falling for her. Btw how's your son going at gymnastics? I love the little guy's enthusiasm!"

#2:

"Yeah she is inexperienced, which is why I'm training her daily. I should send her to you for advice eh? Hey I need an expert's opinion on fashion for a Christmas gift..."

#3:

"Yes I know. It's a worry eh? I've been unlucky in love so far, but I'd kill to have a family & marriage like yours. Btw is your son graduating this year or next? He's such a smart young bloke!"

####

You get the idea. Call it Agree & Deflect, a cousin of Agree & Amplify

Charm-101!

 

[( . )( . )]

Any tips to handle these situations in a cool social way to keep the interactions flowing although politely shut down these topics.
thanks

You could always shame the slogged out old hens right back if your feeling ballsy enough.

"Hey when your snatch is as tight as hers you come see me, deal?"

Maybe not just yet. But I agree with the Jittermeister. Agree and smirk it off but don't go overboard. Amused mastery is always your friend in any social interaction.

 

[wait_out]

Tell her it's between you and young lover.

Those who begrude others their happiness and love, no matter where they find it, are usually toxic influences.

For detractors, you are just going to need to have confidence in yourself and your choices. I would stay away from snark and fighting with them; if they were happy with their own relationships, they would be less likely to police yours.

BTW you are far more likely to have a healthy kid with a woman in her 20's than one in her 30's. That is a fact, your age as a man is a factor but is an order of magnitude lesser. So be aware but keep it all in perspective.

 

[Scaramouche]

Dear JitterMeister,
Agree and deflect,agree and amplify....Wonderful concepts,I seem to remember in the dim distant past that such ideas enjoyed a vogue....Thanks for reminding me,very valuable weapons in the DJ's arsenal!

 

[Jitterbug]

Occasionally if it's to your advantage (i.e an easy big win), you can take a stand and defeat them with rock solid application of rhetoric (because they're too dumb to understand logic/dialectic). However, usually it's a waste of time (anyone here wants to argue for fun with nosy & bored women or beta chumps?) and costs you social points, which is why being evasive is so much better. Straight from The Arts of War btw. Old school is always the best, as Scara eluded to.

 

[Heretolearn]

AWESOME Jitterbug! Thanks

 

[Slickster]

Good advice Jitter

 

[zekko]

I would always laugh because I just found it hilarious. Not sure why, exactly, it just always seemed funny to me.

 

[Nutz]

So how do you guys handle it.

1. A lot of people always assume that I will date someone my own age (32).

Eg. girl is 23, they will say she is way too young for you


I could correct them and say that age is nothing (although it is a stupid debate/discussion). Do you just take it or what?

2. Yesterday a girl (30) sees me with a 21 year old and then the 30 yr old starts telling me how she did not know how to have sex until 30 etc etc. Obviously overplaying the experience vs youth.


3. Even had older women (and Men) who are happily married to childhood sweethearts tell me that I will end up old and lonely and will not be able to have kids when I am older. Saying apparently studies are now showing old guys sperm is the cause of a higher risk of birth defects. Any truth to this?

*no 3 issues are from my work (professional work environment with old fashioned 'stability' family man values (expect MAJOR hypocrisy as these guys play up when on business trips...yet for work functions, I am expected to have a happy family)


It frustrates me to have opposition/these conversations.

Do you just have to be a man and deal with dissenters? Any tips to handle these situations in a cool social way to keep the interactions flowing although politely shut down these topics.
thanks

Ignore them. It's just sour grapes/jealousy that men their age aren't falling into line and dating their old ass.

 

[Down Low]

If these are people you're going to have to deal with for a long time, people who will appear in your social life, you're going to have to stick up for yourself.

It's very bad manners for anyone to criticize a man for liking young women. You could respond with "well, what a thing to say!" or "oh really, how tacky" or the simple (but devastating) "I see," and then excuse yourself to freshen up your drink.

You're going to have to start dressing better, using better manners, and introducing yourself as Mister Learn. THEN say "but you can call me Hereto." Let them know they're your peers and they may be informal with you -- but only because you so allow.

You're an adult. As an adult, everyone else is supposed to assume that you're capable of deciding what's best for you -- and not presume to tell you how to live your life. Stop discussing your personal affairs with mere acquaintances. Save your heartfelt conversations for your few real friends. To deal effectively with superiors, subordinates, and scavangers, you must be the opposite of a "borderline" disorder. You must establish a personal distance. Only then does charm have any meaning (that you make the effort to cross that distance).

As a dominant male, all women and 95% of men are going to be disturbed by your very presence. Get used to it. Learn how to turn it to your advantage. And you can start by not allowing people to act as if they're going to interrogate you -- to put you on the defensive about whatever. That will establish the correct frame for your continued relationship with them.

 

[Heretolearn]

If these are people you're going to have to deal with for a long time, people who will appear in your social life, you're going to have to stick up for yourself.

It's very bad manners for anyone to criticize a man for liking young women. You could respond with "well, what a thing to say!" or "oh really, how tacky" or the simple (but devastating) "I see," and then excuse yourself to freshen up your drink.

You're going to have to start dressing better, using better manners, and introducing yourself as Mister Learn. THEN say "but you can call me Hereto." Let them know they're your peers and they may be informal with you -- but only because you so allow.

You're an adult. As an adult, everyone else is supposed to assume that you're capable of deciding what's best for you -- and not presume to tell you how to live your life. Stop discussing your personal affairs with mere acquaintances. Save your heartfelt conversations for your few real friends. To deal effectively with superiors, subordinates, and scavangers, you must be the opposite of a "borderline" disorder. You must establish a personal distance. Only then does charm have any meaning (that you make the effort to cross that distance).

As a dominant male, all women and 95% of men are going to be disturbed by your very presence. Get used to it. Learn how to turn it to your advantage. And you can start by not allowing people to act as if they're going to interrogate you -- to put you on the defensive about whatever. That will establish the correct frame for your continued relationship with them.

Interesting. So are you saying that if I set the frame correctly initially, these suggestions/disapprovals would not surface?

I would like to know more. I like the Mr introduction. Can you give an example of how and when you use this. Australia is very 'tall poppy' (i.e negative towards success/demonstration of status). I personally detest this - how do you suggest it is combated?

 

[Down Low]

We live in such a trashy culture that, no matter how you present yourself, you're going to be constantly and endlessly harangued by people who insult your eyes and ears. But if you set the proper frame with people who need to socialize with you (such as fellow work professionals), you can train them to be deferential to you. They've already proven they're sheep who follow any leader.

OK. Lead.

Cashier at fast-food restaurant: [Stands there staring at me.]
Me: "May I have a bacon cheeseburger and a Sprite."
Cashier: "Can I have your name?"
Me: "Mr. Low."

Professor at extension course: "Let's go around the room introducing ourselves."
Student: "Aaron."
Student: "Tashika."
Student: "Jake."
Student: "Crystal."
Me: "Mr. Low."

Job interviewer: "Yeah I'm Randy I'm doing the, uh, interviews today. Who are you and why are you applying here?"
Me: "I'm Mr. Low. I'm applying for the position of store manager because somewhere in Maryland there's a family of landlords who desperately need money and depend on me to help them out."

To sell it, you absolutely must present yourself as a top 5% individual who's confident and at ease with yourself.

These people know how to dress, and they know a thing or two about manners. You don't have to go all GQ, but at least adopt some of the "casual" style such as khakis and a light "summer" sports jacket. Hawaiian shirts and sunglasses on hot days when it's over 90. Dunno how hot it gets where you are. I got where I could tolerate a jacket up to about 77 degrees where it's dry, and maybe 68 where it's humid.

 

[synergy1]

People who generally make a big deal out of these things are of piss poor character to begin with in my experience.

Example 1: Girl who has maintained being in our social circle despite being a mooch and has a poor/boring personality. She is always the gossip queen and the first one to comment on my dating life ( or anyone elses, its not just me). How do I deal with this one? Complete indifference. This KILLS her and she keeps trying to be a ***** to get my attention. When I say indifference, I mean flat out ignoring her. So how do I deal with the "shaming" in this case? Kill it at its source - she thrives on attention and once you deprive her of that, she has no ground to stand on.

Example 2: Friends fiance. She is also a big gossiper and judger ( not like the cool judge dredd that lays down the law in a futuristic world). This one is just mean spirited, but I think has mental issues overall. She will be the first one to ask "why don't you date your age", to which I replied "why date my age when I can date 10 years younger?". She utterly hates me for it, but I really don't care.

Haters exist everywhere. Its simply not worth ones energy to focus on them too much, and find the best medicine is to ignore them to the point where they are obsolete. This more than arguing generally works, but sometimes a good one liner is just what the doctor ordered.

As a dominant male, all women and 95% of men are going to be disturbed by your very presence.

This seems true in some cases. However amongst the male friends in my group, we all get along great. While their girlfriends scorn behavior of this type, the guys are praising it. And since its the guys who make things happen, we generally don't care what the females have to say.

 

[Trailboss]

People who care about you won't say sh*t: they will be happy *your* happy. Nobody else matters. However, if they push it: Tell 'em it takes 2 to tango...why is the woman dating someone 10 yrs older?

 

[Poonani Maker]

I just tell them..see Elvis Presley, see Jerry Lee Lewis...see...those with experience, those having tested the field amply, I follow as having knowing what's good, what's the best. If you're looking for a new tool, a new weapon, a new anything you're gonna buy, do you not read/watch reviews? I don't go in blindly on a sale. And women, I'd say, once 22 can sex you up every bit (I'd say even better) than any woman past 28 (ever did with me). That's a fact. Ones in their 30s try to be too conversational, too psychological in our interactions, too tryin to figure me out all the time, which just Ruins the sex with her stupid fvcking agenda, her having been fvcked over numerous times and jaded to kingdom come so she's trying to make sure I'm "the one." Also, they're usually chunkier with droopy t!ts. Tell them that!

 

[Interceptor]

I dont feel comfortable with an Agree then Deflect approach.

I feel its a bit too weak.
In emotional situations sometimes men dont want conflict, and try to avoid it.
And doing the "Aw shucks, ya know..." kind of thing just feels weak and appeasing to me.


I think that the ultimate "technique" or whatever to deal with is to have more passion, love, and belief in your VALUES and making your dreams come true than any naysayer.

Its pretty common that other people dont want us to succeed. And any sign that one is different or succeeding is often felt as an offense, a personal offense, and in fact many people will try to discourage you.

Be very wary of people that do this.
Its not common to have really supportive, congratulatory type support and behavior from people in all our actions, decisions, and such.
But if you believe in what youre doing, and truly have the conviction then be careful of wasting energy trying to justify yourself, your choices, and actions to others.
Now, when it comes to your close, inner circle folks, your relatives, loved ones ,etc. Obviously you want to be tactful, and respectful. Be polite.

People say youre wrong, too old, too fat, not handsome enough, too poor, too lazy, incapable, too dumb, dont have a degree, etc etc etc..
Get used to it. Its people that want to keep you at a certain Level and Status, and dont like change. They dont want you to change. They dont like that you force them to have to look at you differently.

Thats their problem.

Not yours.

And you dont have a responsibility to justify your actions to these outer circle people.

With inner circle people, you should take a moment and be considerate.
These people have been with you a long time, and have been supportive generally speaking? So be more tactful to explain that you feel right now this is the right choice for you. Show confidence in your decision.
If you can start training that now, you will feel more comfortable with naysayers and negative unsupportive people and opinions.
So be carefull of justifying yourself, and having to somehow prove the value and worth of your choices to others.

And I dont agree with the Agree with them then deflect. Its too disingenuous for me. And I think people will see through it.

And for people who are looking for conflict with you. Be careful of those too.
Weigh carefully if you want to be aggressive in standing your ground. Maybe it might be worth it, but if their main objective is just to see you cave, choke, break, crack, show weakeness, exploit it etc..then think about just how little it means that their objections are coming from them.
Because their true intent is not about your wellbeing, it something more sinister and manipulative, and is beneath you.

Question the motives. Maybe you might want to question the naysayer?

Sometimes people can be too self involved, and can act inconsiderately. And sometimes our loved ones may bring this up.
So sometimes this questioning of our actions is not a "bad" thing. Sometimes people want to see how strong your conviction is.


Focus on that. YOUR conviction. And the rest will fall into place.


Be careful of appeasement. Be careful of trying too hard to fit in. Be careful of trying to make everyone happy.

If you follow these guidlines, you WILL find conflict.

Notice I didnt say that it would disappear.

You WILL find conflict. So be prepared for that.
Question your motives. Examine them. And work on the positive aspects that affect you and that you can control.
If you are a person that doesnt make decisions to intentionally hurt, spite, demean others, then you are operating justly.

Be strong. And recognize that you will make mistakes.

But be carefull of acting in a way that is too appeasing and non confrontational.

 

[Jitterbug]

Interceptor, context is key here. Look at whom Heretolearn was dealing with: random women of his acquaintance, older couples at his workplace. Arguing with them is a waste of time and in the last case can cost you lots. Those people couldn't care less about him, so standing up for himself against them is biting their baits. They are nosy by nature, and what they do is basically to troll people for fun by dropping such baits.

Pick your battles. There will be a time & place to stand up for yourself. Against random nosy women and old people is NOT the right time & place. Besides it's not like they could comprehend reasons and logic anyway. There is no win in it for you: if you lose the debate, it's a disaster; if you win the debate, it's a Pyrrhic victory against... women and old people.

I'd give him a different advice if it were his family shaming him.

As for being appeasing and non-confrontational, if you're afraid to be seen as "weak" then you don't get it. Strength lies in adaptability, not being a hard-headed idiot. Strength here is in your own conviction to do whatever you want, but using verbal jiujitsu to get those monkeys off your back. It's one of the Laws of Power, is it not? Do what you want, but talk like others.

However, if they push it: Tell 'em it takes 2 to tango...why is the woman dating someone 10 yrs older?

Don't do that. You're then putting the pressure on your girl, while you should be her protector.

Use Love. No woman can argue against Love. It's one of the best weapons in their own arsenal to be used to justify everything.

Yes quite a few of them will see right through said BS, but it's not the point. They can see through it, but they can't shame or speak up against you openly because they will make idiots of themselves socially. The point is to shut them up, not to convince them of your point of view.

 

[Interceptor]

Nah, its still too complacent and weak. Just stating my opinion.
If you didnt understand my post, thats ok.

Good luck.