"Ode to the Nice Guys"

[Aenigma]

Found this post on another forum; it, perfectly illustrates the “Nice Guy” mentality; so much so that I cringed when I read parts of it realizing that it described my mentality in the past perfectly. Even more importantly, it illustrated some of the “Nice Guy” thought patterns that are still a part of my mental thought processes (ones that need to be eliminated).

Ode to the Nice Guys
This rant was written for the Wharton Undergraduate Journal

This is a tribute to the nice guys. The nice guys that finish last, that never become more than friends, that endure hours of whining and *****ing about what *******s guys are, while disproving the very point. This is dedicated to those guys who always provide a shoulder to lean on but restrain themselves to tentative hugs, those guys who hold open doors and give reassuring pats on the back and sit patiently outside the changing room at department stores. This is in honor of the guys that obligingly reiterate how cute/beautiful/smart/funny/sexy their female friends are at the appropriate moment, because they know most girls need that litany of support. This is in honor of the guys with open minds, with laid-back attitudes, with honest concern. This is in honor of the guys who respect a girl’s every facet, from her privacy to her theology to her clothing style.

This is for the guys who escort their drunk, bewildered female friends back from parties and never take advantage once they’re at her door, for the guys who accompany girls to bars as buffers against the rest of the creepy male population, for the guys who know a girl is fishing for compliments but give them out anyway, for the guys who always play by the rules in a game where the rules favor cheaters, for the guys who are accredited as boyfriend material but somehow don’t end up being boyfriends, for all the nice guys who are overlooked, underestimated, and unappreciated, for all the nice guys who are manipulated, misled, and unjustly abandoned, this is for you.

This is for that time she left 40 urgent messages on your cell phone, and when you called her back, she spent three hours painstakingly dissecting two sentences her boyfriend said to her over dinner. And even though you thought her boyfriend was a chump and a jerk, you assured her that it was all ok and she shouldn’t worry about it. This is for that time she interrupted the best killing spree you’d ever orchestrated in GTA3 to rant about a rumor that romantically linked her and the guy she thinks is the most repulsive person in the world. And even though you thought it was immature and you had nothing against the guy, you paused the game for two hours and helped her concoct a counter-rumor to spread around the floor. This is also for that time she didn’t have a date, so after numerous vows that there was nothing “serious” between the two of you, she dragged you to a party where you knew nobody, the beer was awful, and she flirted shamelessly with you, justifying each fit of reckless teasing by announcing to everyone: “oh, but we’re just friends!” And even though you were invited purely as a symbolic warm body for her ego, you went anyways. Because you’re nice like that.

The nice guys don’t often get credit where credit is due. And perhaps more disturbing, the nice guys don’t seem to get laid as often as they should. And I wish I could logically explain this trend, but I can’t. From what I have observed on campus and what I have learned from talking to friends at other schools and in the workplace, the only conclusion I can form is that many girls are just illogical, manipulative *****es. Many of them claim they just want to date a nice guy, but when presented with such a specimen, they say irrational, confusing things such as “oh, he’s too nice to date” or “he would be a good boyfriend but he’s not for me” or “he already puts up with so much from me, I couldn’t possibly ask him out!” or the most frustrating of all: “no, it would ruin our friendship.” Yet, they continue to lament the lack of datable men in the world, and they expect their too-nice-to-date male friends to sympathize and apologize for the men that are jerks. Sorry, guys, girls like that are beyond my ability to fathom. I can’t figure out why the connection breaks down between what they say (I want a nice guy!) and what they do (I’m going to sleep with this complete ass now!). But one thing I can do, is say that the nice-guy-finishes-last phenomenon doesn’t last forever. There are definitely many girls who grow out of that train of thought and realize they should be dating the nice guys, not taking them for granted. The tricky part is finding those girls, and even trickier, finding the ones that are single.

So, until those girls are found, I propose a toast to all the nice guys. You know who you are, and I know you’re sick of hearing yourself described as ubiquitously nice. But the truth of the matter is, the world needs your patience in the department store, your holding open of doors, your party escorting services, your propensity to be a sucker for a pretty smile. For all the crazy, inane, absurd things you tolerate, for all the situations where you are the faceless, nameless hero, my accolades, my acknowledgement, and my gratitude go out to you. You do have credibility in this society, and your well deserved vindication is coming.

Fu-zu Jen, SEAS/WH, 2003

 

[iqqi]

Where is this guy! I am in need of a best friend in my life right now! He sounds perfect. Lol. But for real tho.

 

[James Bondage]

I do have quite a bit of sympathy for the 'nice guys' out there (particularly as I used to be one).. it's not their fault the world is cruel and a lot of women are cold, manipulative b*tches.

It's a shame the 'nice guy' has to turn into something of an a$$hole to have success with women rather than the other way around (a b*tch having to turn into a 'nice girl' to get a man), but that's just the way it is I guess...

 

[Frank2500]

Re:

I hear you guys. I definitely used to be 100% Mr. Nice Guy during my undergraduate years in college and possibly just about three years ago. And for someone coming from a different culture where courtesy, respect for authority and humility are often stressed as virtues that are to be constantly upheld, adapting to the dating culture of this country and the overall rudeness, coldness and self-centered nature of many young American women was extremely difficult for me.


I don't know what the gym might have done to help me improve myself, but ever since I began hitting the gym regularly now for almost three years, it seems as if that subtle increase in testosterone has had an effect on me. Prior to that, I used to feel so miserable that for all the years I have been in this country, I have never had a girlfriend and that most of the women I used to feel attracted to never reciprocated but instead went with men who they felt were opposite of me. I even used to complain about some of these things to female family friends and acquaintances and I almost got to the point of depression, as I judged my personal happiness on the basis of whether or not I had a girlfriend.


These days, I really could care less. I focus more on my own goals, needs and desires than on women. It doesn't bother me whether or not a woman notices me or not and I don't seek their approval. Most important, I know for sure that there is absolutely no way that any woman in this country could even dream of trying to talk to me or treat me as they have done in the past. Two once tried (remember my post about standing up to this one *****y woman at my gym about three semesters ago) and I gave them a piece of my mind and let them know I wasn't going to tolerate any disrespect. It's unfortunate women in this country are so spoiled. In addition, even if a woman says "no" to me after I hit on her, I can live with it. It doesn't have anywhere close to as much of the same hurt as it used to do in the past. Also, if I call a woman once or very rarely twice, after she's given me her number and I leave a message but she never calls me back, I never call her again. In the past, I would have been so bothered that I would have tried to reach her at least twice or maybe even three times. Having a backbone and an "I won't take any crap attitude" is very important when dealing with women in this country.

 

[joekerr31]

what the guy is describing is not a nice guy but rather a doormat.

if a woman invites you to a party, flirts shamelessly with you, and then gives you nothing then she is a KAWK tease and attention wh*re and YOU are a doormat for having her as a friend.

and as for why women sleep with *ssholes. its mostly due to two things...

1) he's creating social proof for himself. if she doesn't sleep with him, he'll just go find some other chic to sleep with. she knows this, and as a result feels as though she is somehow 'beating' out the competition.

2) he's a hunter. so called 'nice guys' don't hunt. they are farmers. they like to plant their seeds and watch them grow, hoping one day to harvest the crop. well, farming sucks. its a lot of waiting just for a cob of corn in the end.

whereas hunters have it made. they work half as much and when they make their kill they get a big fat juicy steak to eat.

"nice" guys don't hunt and they don't have social proof. they tend to become 'friends' with a chic and become their emotional tampon. when other women see this it actually HURTS their chances, because all the women can sense "oh him? that's Julie's friend. stay away from him, she's using him as her emotional tampon right now."

now, you can be a nice guy and as long as you hunt and as long and build social proof you will be just fine.

the biggest thing though is to HUNT. this is the major reason the *ssholes get laid. they just keep hunting until they find a kill. and in a very strange ironic twist, the more they kill, the more animals (ie. women) start coming around them to be killed. before you know it the hunter is sitting there with buffalo all over the places just asking to be killed.

HUNT.

 

[joekerr31]

oh and another thing...

one of the reasons that women go for the *ssholes is because the women are *ssholes themselves.

nice guys however don't see that. they put all women on pedastals and then wonder why a woman on a pedastal would go for a *sshole.

the woman goes for the *sshole because she can get commitment-free sex and not worry at all about hurting his feelings.

if she hooks up with the nice guy suddenly he's calling her every day, etc. a lot of these women just want to get laid, they don't want to adopt a puppy.

 

[jonwon]

what the guy is describing is not a nice guy but rather a doormat.

if a woman invites you to a party, flirts shamelessly with you, and then gives you nothing then she is a KAWK tease and attention wh*re and YOU are a doormat for having her as a friend.

and as for why women sleep with *ssholes. its mostly due to two things...

1) he's creating social proof for himself. if she doesn't sleep with him, he'll just go find some other chic to sleep with. she knows this, and as a result feels as though she is somehow 'beating' out the competition.

2) he's a hunter. so called 'nice guys' don't hunt. they are farmers. they like to plant their seeds and watch them grow, hoping one day to harvest the crop. well, farming sucks. its a lot of waiting just for a cob of corn in the end.

whereas hunters have it made. they work half as much and when they make their kill they get a big fat juicy steak to eat.

"nice" guys don't hunt and they don't have social proof. they tend to become 'friends' with a chic and become their emotional tampon. when other women see this it actually HURTS their chances, because all the women can sense "oh him? that's Julie's friend. stay away from him, she's using him as her emotional tampon right now."

now, you can be a nice guy and as long as you hunt and as long and build social proof you will be just fine.

the biggest thing though is to HUNT. this is the major reason the *ssholes get laid. they just keep hunting until they find a kill. and in a very strange ironic twist, the more they kill, the more animals (ie. women) start coming around them to be killed. before you know it the hunter is sitting there with buffalo all over the places just asking to be killed.

HUNT.

could not have put it better.

Sadly the nice guy who made the post (which is a good read) still has not learned from his rant, his conclusion was to 'stay a nice guy' and hope that a women comes along and recongnizes his many sacrifices.

what a chump!

This guy does not have much hope, he is ranting about many things that are true in observation, but the sad thing is:

Like most nice guy chumps they always blame external sources (its always the womens fault), when, when all is said and done if he stops being a supplicating doormat (as stated) and actually lived his life and not the life of the '*****' he is secretly hoping 'will see the mate potential in him'

 

[Maxtro]

Looking back at this piece it is obvious that the nice guy is at fault for his predicament. His biggest mistake is not seeing and going after any opportunities. But I guess that is why he is a nice guy...

Ode to the Nice Guys
This rant was written for the Wharton Undergraduate Journal

This is a tribute to the nice guys. The nice guys that finish last, that never become more than friends, that endure hours of whining and *****ing about what *******s guys are, while disproving the very point. This is dedicated to those guys who always provide a shoulder to lean on but restrain themselves to tentative hugs

Nice guy fault #1 Don't put up with the hours of bulcrap. When she's crying and a guy offers a hug he should also try and go for the kiss and let it lead on.

This is for the guys who escort their drunk, bewildered female friends back from parties and never take advantage once they’re at her door,

Fault #2 Similar to #1 but it depends on how drunk she is. Not good to be accused of rape.

This is for that time she left 40 urgent messages on your cell phone, and when you called her back, she spent three hours painstakingly dissecting two sentences her boyfriend said to her over dinner. And even though you thought her boyfriend was a chump and a jerk, you assured her that it was all ok and she shouldn’t worry about it.

Fault #3 Don't take the boyfriends side :cuss: Tell her to worry and he doesn't love her and stuff like that.

This is also for that time she didn’t have a date, so after numerous vows that there was nothing “serious” between the two of you, she dragged you to a party where you knew nobody, the beer was awful, and she flirted shamelessly with you, justifying each fit of reckless teasing by announcing to everyone: “oh, but we’re just friends!” And even though you were invited purely as a symbolic warm body for her ego, you went anyways. Because you’re nice like that.

Fault #4 Should have made a move on her anyways.

In all four of those examples the nice guy stayed nice buy not doing anything. But if he took the risks and tried to make some moves on the girl he wouldn't be a nice guy and he may get some action.

 

[joekerr31]

oh by the way.. .when i have female friend complaining to me about this or that, i treat them how id treat my male friends. i lay down the 'truth', as uncomfortable as it may be.

i dont condon crying over spilled milk. i don't coddle women just because they are throwing an emotional temper tantrum.

i tell them to 'grow up'.

9 times out of 10 by the end of the conversation they are flirting with me (even though that was not my intention!)

women are looking for a man to take the lead. and in order to take the lead with a woman, you've GOT to be able to cut through the insanity that is her mind and impose upon it order and reason.

 

[Mr.Positive]

what the guy is describing is not a nice guy but rather a doormat.

if a woman invites you to a party, flirts shamelessly with you, and then gives you nothing then she is a KAWK tease and attention wh*re and YOU are a doormat for having her as a friend.

and as for why women sleep with *ssholes. its mostly due to two things...

1) he's creating social proof for himself. if she doesn't sleep with him, he'll just go find some other chic to sleep with. she knows this, and as a result feels as though she is somehow 'beating' out the competition.

2) he's a hunter. so called 'nice guys' don't hunt. they are farmers. they like to plant their seeds and watch them grow, hoping one day to harvest the crop. well, farming sucks. its a lot of waiting just for a cob of corn in the end.

whereas hunters have it made. they work half as much and when they make their kill they get a big fat juicy steak to eat.

"nice" guys don't hunt and they don't have social proof. they tend to become 'friends' with a chic and become their emotional tampon. when other women see this it actually HURTS their chances, because all the women can sense "oh him? that's Julie's friend. stay away from him, she's using him as her emotional tampon right now."

now, you can be a nice guy and as long as you hunt and as long and build social proof you will be just fine.

the biggest thing though is to HUNT. this is the major reason the *ssholes get laid. they just keep hunting until they find a kill. and in a very strange ironic twist, the more they kill, the more animals (ie. women) start coming around them to be killed. before you know it the hunter is sitting there with buffalo all over the places just asking to be killed.

HUNT.

This post ^ here would solve pretty much all 'nice guy' problems if taken to heart and applied. Great analogy. I really wish I would have had this advise years ago when I was the biggest nice guy that ever existed.

I learned the hard way unfortunately how nice guys finish last...so I'll chime in here. I used to constantly be told "your really great", "just wait...and the right girl will come along", "you are so important to me, I just couldn't do anything to ruin our friendship", etc, etc...

Yet, no dates, but a lot of female friends. So, I ended up doing a 180 and became a major player/*sshole for awhile (before finding this site) and had quite a few one night stands, and finally started settling into a grove a couple of years ago.

The thing that I really learned is that nice guys (ie chumps) are really this way because subconsciously they are afraid of their masculinity. They feel that making a move on a woman, trying to get physical with her, is somehow taking advantage of her and immoral.

I believe this mentality roots from our feminized society where anything that is masculine gets laughed at, or frowned upon and somehow labeled as being wrong.

I also think that women (actually quality women) do really want a 'nice guy', but not what we label a nice guy. They want a good MAN, that is. So, if the 'nice guy' would take away all his feminine traits, and just embrace being masculine, it would solve most of his problems.

So...to Mr. Nice Guy: You can treat people with respect, yet display masculine strength at the same time. This is called leadership.

You are not taking advantage of a woman is you are attracted to her and make a move on her. Hunting, like Joekerr stated, is not wrong, it's in our nature. If anything, you've given her the biggest compliment there is, to be seen as attractive to men.

Women, quality women, want men that are not afraid of being men.

 

[MikeYikes122]

I realize this is the Mature Man forum and probably not the proper place to bring up an MTV reality show. But anyone who has watched at least a little bit of this season's Real World can find a good example of the type of guy who has the whole system figured out.

Cohutta (that Southern guy on there) is bagging the hottest girl in the house (forgot her name) and seems to be probably the nicest guy of the bunch. The difference between him and the Doormat nice guy is that he has social proof (all the girls want him) and he isn't afraid to roll up on all the Australian jerk-offs when he needs to. He carries himself with confidence and is unwavering in his beliefs.

He is a pretty good example of the 'good guy' we often talk about on here. He is nice, but at the same time he isn't going to let anyone walk all over him. He will help anyone out, but at the same time he has a little bit of an edge to him. He walks the line perfectly between nice guy and a$$hole.

My friends always crack on me for watching reality television, but one of the reasons I always find myself watching shows like Real World is because it's a good way to get proof for all of the theories that we talk about on here.

All the girls in the beginning of the season were in love with Cohutta. They'd get drunk and try to hook up with him, but they'd go in the confessional and talk all about how he just wasn't their type and it was only flirting - a good example of how you should look at a girls' actions, not her words. One of them was the hot-ass girl he is banging now

 

[seth]

I'm pretty sure the author of the "ode" is girl. I think this is her photo: http://www.stwing.upenn.edu/~jenf/photos/personal/singles/drink.html

I think she should be commended for realising something is wrong with the matrix. Of course she does not see the actual truth, and so the pat on the back for the nice guys outhere does more harm then good. As Rollo would say, it makes their vice into a virtue, the nice guy medal of honor.

 

[MikeYikes122]

I'm pretty sure the author of the "ode" is girl. I think this is her photo: http://www.stwing.upenn.edu/~jenf/photos/personal/singles/drink.html

I think she should be commended for realising something is wrong with the matrix. Of course she does not see the actual truth, and so the pat on the back for the nice guys outhere does more harm then good. As Rollo would say, it makes their vice into a virtue, the nice guy medal of honor.

She is OK looking, but the real question is, how in the hell did you find this?

 

[seth]

Google.

 

[Maxtro]

Wow a chick wrote that. No wonder if falls apart in the end

Click on Writing, then Papers and you select it in the rants box.