Not another religious idea...

[CableLight]

Okay, go with me on this. The purpose of this thread is most definately not to start an arguement. I'm asking for hypothetical inferances here.

Imagine this - What if there was no religion in the world. No one would have hostilities or differences with anyone based on religon. Would the Crusades have happend? America being discovered when it was? Spanish Inquisition? The Holocaust? Our "War on Terror"?

This is totally hypothetical - But would there be as much conflict in the world and its history if there were no such thing as religion? Try to imagine for a second if the whole concept was blinked out of existance and everything you ever though about someone based on religion was neutralized.

Would this be a good thing? A bad thing? As many advancements as we've had (conflict = technology)? Overpopulation (war = reduction of people)? What do you guys think?

 

[CableLight]

And one step further - If there wasn't such a thing, what would the overall spirit of the people of the world be like? I'm striving at writing a future essay of sorts on this and really want some input

 

[Desdinova]

This is totally hypothetical - But would there be as much conflict in the world and its history if there were no such thing as religion?

Quite hard to say. I think the differences in religions balance themselves out. There are many religions that participate in feeding the poor, fundraising, giving to charity, etc. Then there are the cult religions that encourage the death of a child to avoid a certain medical procedure, closing their doors to people in a natural disaster because they're not of the same religion, encourage shunning of family members who aren't of the same religion, etc.

If the world was rid of religion, it would be in the exact same position as it is now.

 

[KOSR]

I do not think the world would be a much better place. Humans, like animals, have a tendency to fear the unkown, with religion lots of those fears were taken away, plus certain rules or guidelines were presented for a way of living for the masses, and basically combatting human nature.

Also I think religions are not static, they change thruwout the ages. I can imagine at certain time periods in human history where christianity pulled mankind thruw tough periods. On the other hand at the moment I think the interpretation, and misinterpretation of the bible is wreaking havoc on all kinds of layers of society. The way childeren are to be reared especially, destroying the soul of a child is the basic idea, this served it's purpose in the middle ages for survival, anno 2004 is makes people depressed and numb.

Basically I think religion is human nature, we want to believe, we need to believe, ultimately there are no real truths, everything is just imperfect perception of reality.

Also recently I found out that darwinism and natural selection are part of a religion called Naturalism, they themself like to present it as highly scientific, but it's not! I seriously doubt natural selection as we know it, even scientists desperately need their own religion.

Maybe relegion is here for humans to channel our emotions, because relegion is always engored in deep emotions, opposed to science.

So basically I think humans will always have religion, it's our nature to believe and hope, and therefore almost impossible to think without it.

Ramble... Ramble...

 

[comic_relief]

It's impossible to say because you would have to go clear back to the beginning of time and rewrite everything in the history books.

 

[diplomatic_lie]

I would imagine there would still be war. Maybe over ethnicity (patriotic or racial wars), over land (economics or pride), or simply because of disputes. Even athiests get into fights

I don't think the notion of war and conflict is such a bad thing. Animals kill each other all the time, humans simply do it on a grander scale (because y'know, we're smarter so we think of more ways to kill). Its simply nature's way of saying "get outta my way".

 

[ShortTimer]

Originally posted by CableLight
As many advancements as we've had (conflict = technology)? Overpopulation (war = reduction of people)? What do you guys think?

I think this is a very oversimplified view of things. Conflict can come in more forms than just war. There is this old addage that "war is good for the economy." Yeah it's fookin' great for the economy whent it's not your cities being bombed. You want technological progress? Then enact laws to bring about open markets.

Overpopulation is another religious myth: the religion of environmentalism. Ever seen satilite images of the earth? We've barely even scraced the available land for living. Oh but do you remember the world wide famines of the 1980's? The one that brought the Western world to its knees? Yeah I don't remember it either but the eco-terrorists / eco-religionists of the 1970's wanted people to believe it would happen.

If there wasn't such a thing, what would the overall spirit of the people of the world be like?

Happy would be my guess.

You do realize that there have been times and places in human history where our modern idea of "religion" didn't hold popular sway? Go read about ancient Rome before the Christian Church and go read about ancient China. Both had things superficially resembling religon but it would be very unrealistic to say the Stoics or the followers of Plato or Aristotle were "religious" in the modern sense of that word.

Humans, like animals, have a tendency to fear the unkown, with religion lots of those fears were taken away, plus certain rules or guidelines were presented for a way of living for the masses, and basically combatting human nature.

Again: read your history. Society had rules that held them together before there were religions. As for the unknown... well maybe you are afraid of the dark but some who live up to the title homo sapien aren't.

ultimately there are no real truths

So it is absolutly true that there is no absolute truth? Cute. Go take a class in logic.

 

[WORKEROUTER]

Originally posted by CableLight
Okay, go with me on this. The purpose of this thread is most definately not to start an arguement. I'm asking for hypothetical inferances here.

Imagine this - What if there was no religion in the world. No one would have hostilities or differences with anyone based on religon. Would the Crusades have happend? America being discovered when it was? Spanish Inquisition? The Holocaust? Our "War on Terror"?

This is totally hypothetical - But would there be as much conflict in the world and its history if there were no such thing as religion? Try to imagine for a second if the whole concept was blinked out of existance and everything you ever though about someone based on religion was neutralized.

Would this be a good thing? A bad thing? As many advancements as we've had (conflict = technology)? Overpopulation (war = reduction of people)? What do you guys think?

Does it make any sense to speak of a world with no such thing as government?

No, it doesn't. Government is a part of society, a part of human nature. To speak of how a world where government was not present would be absurd, for where there is man, there is a form of government.

Likewise, to speak of a world with no such thing as religion is equally absurd. The concept of a higher truth, an omnipotent God, has permeated the human mind as far back as the Neolithic and Paleolithic prehistory. It is part of the human self, just as is such things as group cooperation and the need for a system of government. Religion needs to be viewed as an essential counterpart to civilization itself, not as an unnecessary addition (a claim which justifies an essay in its own right).

Considering religion in that light, the questions you raise are meaningless.

 

[CableLight]

^ Bad comparison. Don't think something like religion or government are interchangable. They are very, very different unless you're the type of person who thinks anyone without religion in their life is prone to chaos. Hell, even our own government advocates freedom of religious choices including abstaining from any form of it. In fact, if there was a government based solely on a religious ideal, I would not only be very interested to see how it does but also very afraid of the things it may attempt. I can't say for sure, but the Middle East might be a close example of this...?

ShortTimer - I know it's simplified. It was meant to be a quick referance idea to illustrate some of the things that can happen. Kinda like "an example being..." Also, my whole harping of overpopulation isn't to say the world is to it's brim. Look at me, I'm from a state where it's not uncommon for people to have over a mile of land between them and their closest neighbor. Maybe what I'm getting at is we should spreading out, but that isn't going to happen.

Diplomatic - You're right, I think there would still be war too. But what about as much war? As many wars? etc.

Comic - That's why it's just hypothetical. Like, what would be the best guess.

 

[skinnydart]

If there was no such thing as religion there would be such thing as morality, the standard that govern people's everyday actions and inactions.

Think about it, without such thing as religon, how would we determine if something is right or wrong to do. Everybody would simply do that which provides the best results for that individual, and if that means killing you because you get in the way of something I want, then so be it.

So instead of one culture (US, ones that were originaly founded upon Christianity) trying to impose thier morals upon another culture (one of terror) the war would be completely individualized, with every person killing everything and anybody that got in his/her way.

 

[DJDamage]

I know this Asian Cuban chick that immigrated not too long ago. She tells me that in Cuba there is no religion but people still believe in god. The good thing about it is that due to the socio-economic and non religious approach, Cubans identify themselves as Cubans and nothing else, no matter what your ethnic background is.

They get along much better then their western North American part because they don't define themeselves in terms of background and religious affiliation. How many times you heard someone defines themselves through their background i.e " I am Irish/Italian Catholic or I am a Muslim from Egypt but they rarely mention the country they currently live in.

When This Asian Cuban chick came here she was surprised that people judge her because of her ethnic background. She said people are surprised that she speaks spanish and her behaviour is different then the sterotype of an Asian woman living in North America. She also surprised that people are asking her what her religious background is and she doesn't know, she only knows that she believes in a god.

Then again Cuba has other bigger problems then most countries that define themselves through religion.

 

[CableLight]

Skinny - I'd like to imagine mankind could come up with basic ethical treatment of each other like "Hey...Killing...Seems bad?" and such on their own. As comic said earlier, however, we can't fully know what would have became of us so it's up in the air. Also, some religions aren't what I'd call good sources of moral values. A lot of them do preach intollerance of those who do not follow the belief, but thankfully not everyone is insane enough to follow it. You gotta take into context that good and the bad of religion.

Damage - That's an interesting thing to note about Cubans...Now, sure there isn't a huge "positive" aura about the place, but still that's interesting.

 

[comic_relief]

Alright since this is hypothetical I would believe that there would be more wars ,not on religion but on ethnic differences (kurds), it wouldn't be anarchaey, no holidays (maybe except fourth of July or whatever your Independence day and the rest was brought up by Catholics), Sundays would be way different and etc.

The differences are alot like sex would be on the rise, swear words would be used alot more, and other things. Not that some people wouldn't think badly about those differences

 

[CableLight]

That's what I'm wondering about - ethnic differences. I've gotta say, a lot of the mistreatment of different racial groups is religious based, but putting that aside I'm not sure what would happen.

Now, just because two people believe in the same mythology ideals doesn't necessarily mean there wont be conflict. I found that interesting too that even people of the same faith aren't totally banded together.

Therefore, I'm wondering - if there was no religion and none of the hostilities towards people based on religion - would there be a lot of ethnic conflict? Unless people inherantly think anyone that doesn't look like they do is bad, would things be stable? It's really hard to say that people would have vastly different sociological goals or desires, so I'm not sure what they'd fight about. It would almost have to be solely based on what people look like...That's kinda odd, but definately not impossible.

 

[learningtopimp]

Asian Woman speaking Spanish = HOT

 

[CableLight]

Originally posted by learningtopimp
Asian Woman speaking Spanish = HOT

Dear diary...

 

[Blue Phoenix]

In most wars there "always" some advantages.

Due to the World Wars and Industrial Revolution the science developed and most of the technologies we have nowadays are offsprings from those hard momments.

That´s why I think that hard times is usually a momment for development! Be it technology or people.

Regarding to religion.

The problem is not the religion itself, but the people that are behind it. Most of the religious wars were caused because of arrogance, stubbornness, self-interests, people that think "my way or high way". Dangerous people in power, etc.

I´m not against the Bible, but people must have their own thinking and do what they think is correct, not because the Bible says so. If you wanna follow it great, good luck. If not, you have to repect the ones that are not going to follow it.

Religious intolerance is what is usually behind some wars.

There´re a lot of swindlers in religion (as in any profitable area) just making money through it. Using people´s faith against themselves, telling them what they want to hear, using them to their own self-interest, etc. Religion is a weapon that has killed a lot of people and will go on forever.

 

[MackJr]

I'll say something slightly controversial, but it's to buffet my point: religion is a housing for mind-control. So if there were no religion, it would be much harder to influence large numbers of people. Remember, religion controls beliefs, and beliefs control individuals.

So without religion, people would still argue a little bit,b ut it would be about empirical philosophies. I don't think the ethnic strife would be quite as great, but I think there could be war, just that it would be war for which the reasons were more transparent. You'd see the president on TV saying something like, "We need to get oil, and they won't give it to us at a fair price", or somthing like that. Discussion of 'evil' or what not would be considered strange and irrelevant.

 

[InsidiousNstinct]

The problem is not the religion itself, but the people that are behind it. Most of the religious wars were caused because of arrogance, stubbornness, self-interests, people that think "my way or high way". Dangerous people in power, etc.

EXACTLY....

 

[CableLight]

Originally posted by MackJr
Discussion of 'evil' or what not would be considered strange and irrelevant.

Well...I'm not totally sure about that, but it's an interesting idea.

Also, I just had this thought: Columbus wasn't sent to find America, but didn't a lot - if not about all of the original pilgrims come here to excape religious prosectution in Europe? I'm definately not saying America wouldn't have ever been taken over, but I think it would have slowed things down. My old-world history isn't very great, but I'm wondering what repercussions this might have had. Anyone?