Negotiation for Successful DJing

[Giovanni Casanova]

Today we're going to learn about negotiation.

Negotiation, very simply, is the process in which a Group A has something that Group B wants, and Group B has something that Group A wants, and both groups attempt to get what they want while giving up as little as possible. Sounds complicated but it really isn't.

Imagine that you have the means to produce a nearly unlimited amount of apples, but you don't really care that much about apples. What you really want is, say, strawberries. Now, imagine that another person has an unlimited amount of strawberries, but really wants apples. The simple solution would be to negotiate a situation in which you trade apples for strawberries. You both get what you want. But what would happen if you gave this person as many apples as you had, in the hopes that by doing this they would give you strawberries in return? A lot of the time, the person would say, "Thanks for the apples." And that would be the end of it. It seems like it would seem stupid to do that. Now imagine that you gave another person apples hoping to get strawberries. Again, they just thank you for the apples and don't give you any strawberries. Bast*rd. At some point you've got to realize that giving the apples away for free isn't going to help you. You're going to have to be less generous with your apples.

This situation can translate to relations between men and women as well. Women have something that men want. Sex. This is obvious. But men have something that women want. Attention. Often you hear guys talking about women being "attention wh*res." Well, the truth is that ALL women to some extent or another are attention wh*res. All of them. So guys have the ability to give attention and they desire sex. And women have the ability to give sex and they desire attention. A logical approach would be that they should negotiate an even trade. Attention for sex. Sex for attention. Everyone's happy. The only problem is that a lot of guys just give out attention for free, thinking that the girl will then put up the sex. Not true. The girl is already getting what she wants FOR FREE and no trade is necessary.

If you don't give away your attention for free, a girl will work for it. She will often do whatever she can in order to get you to give her attention. And as we all know, a person values things more when they have to work for them. Girls are no fools, they realize that sex is their number one currency. They realize this fact a lot more than guys realize that attention is their number one currency. If you are less free with your currency, a girl will be much more free with her currency. A balance is then struck and you get sex and she gets attention and everyone's happy. The true goal of a successful negotiation.

 

[stuartSan]

Nice way to put it.

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i'd rather die than give you control

 

[Turbobird]

Nice post!!!

Does anyone have any ideas about how to don't give away your attention for free? I usually don’t meet a woman I’m dating between the dates, and when we are on a date I usually give her my full attention. Doesn’t you give her your full attention when you are out on a date with her? What do you put your attention on when it’s not focused on her?

/Turbobird

[This message has been edited by Turbobird (edited 02-28-2002).]

 

[Giovanni Casanova]

Originally posted by Turbobird:
Does anyone have any ideas about how to don't give away your attention for free? I usually don’t meet a woman I’m dating between the dates, and when we are on a date I usually give her my full attention. Doesn’t you give her your full attention when you are out on a date with her? What do you put your attention on when it’s not focused on her?

Well, in your situation, when you're out on a date, it's okay to "pay attention" to her. But there's a difference between being being "attentive and respectful" and just "giving her what she wants." If a girl shows up all dressed to kill, she wants you to notice. Pretend you don't. Don't compliment her on how her hair looks, or what she's wearing, or tell her how hot she is, or anything like that. Talk to her, but don't tell her how great she is. She will then go out of her way to prove her greatness to you, in an attempt to get you to notice. When you don't seem to notice how great she looks, she will begin to think there's something wrong with her. Insecurities will come to the surface. Let her be insecure. Insecure girls put out, quite simply. Crude, but true.

When I say don't pay attention to her, what I mean is don't pay attention TO THE VERY THINGS SHE WANTS YOU TO PAY ATTENTION TO. If she wears a low-cut dress, she wants you to be drooling over her breasts (most girls would deny this, but it's true). If she wears a short skirt, her intention is that you will be staring at her perfectly smooth, tanned legs. Don't. When she puts her makeup on and does her hair, she does this in the hopes that you will be blown away by her stunning beauty. Don't be. Let her work for your attention.

 

[xniceguy]

I personally think attention ho = crack ho.

And you're the dealer.

First, you give out a little sample for free, to get the taste in them.

Then, you offer a little larger sample, but make them go out of their way for it.

You gradually work your way up to the point where they're hooked on your attention and ready to trade their bodies for it.

This has 2 steps:

1. Make sure your attention is good. (Charm, confidence, challenge, funny, all that).

2. Make sure they don't get complacent. Always be on the verge of saying, "Well, since you don't *want* my attention, I'll go give it to someone else".



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Chicks don't think. Chicks feel.

 

[Giovanni Casanova]

Originally posted by xniceguy:
I personally think attention ho = crack ho.

And you're the dealer.

First, you give out a little sample for free, to get the taste in them.

Then, you offer a little larger sample, but make them go out of their way for it.

You gradually work your way up to the point where they're hooked on your attention and ready to trade their bodies for it.

This has 2 steps:

1. Make sure your attention is good. (Charm, confidence, challenge, funny, all that).

2. Make sure they don't get complacent. Always be on the verge of saying, "Well, since you don't *want* my attention, I'll go give it to someone else".

Not exactly. Girls are already "hooked" on that drug called attention. You don't need to "hook" them.

Just keep it away from them and they will fall over themselves trying to get it from you.

 

[Wolf in sheep's clothing]

Originally posted by Giovanni Casanova:
...If you are less free with your currency, a girl will be much more free with her currency. A balance is then struck and you get sex and she gets attention and everyone's happy. The true goal of a successful negotiation.

So, if I get this right, I get her strawberries by 'selling' my apples as the brand of apples she wants. The date is therefore the negotiation table where she gets to see how good my apples would be and I get to check out her strawberries.

If everything goes well, we both feast until either she gets bored of the taste of my apple juice, or I get sick of strawberry stains on my bedsheets, at which point I piss into her pool and go looking elsewhere?

[This message has been edited by Wolf in sheep's clothing (edited 03-01-2002).]

 

[Giovanni Casanova]

Originally posted by Wolf in sheep's clothing:
So, if I get this right, I get her strawberries by 'selling' my apples as the brand of apples she wants. The date is therefore the negotiation table where she gets to see how good my apples would be and I get to check out her strawberries.

If everything goes well, we both feast until either she gets bored of the taste of my apple juice, or I get sick of strawberry stains on my bedsheets, at which point I piss into her pool and go looking elsewhere?

Dude, I think you have totally gotten it.

 

[Alcibiades]

I like to think of it as Pavlov's dogs experiment. You reward a behaviour you like with attention and punish bad behaviour by withdrawing attention. You know this tactic is working when your date says something outrageous. Once on a lunch date, I wasn't paying attention to her so she started talking about how one time she had kissed another girl. This definitely got my attention.

But do you give full attention if you have done an approach and are going to ask for the phone number?



[This message has been edited by Alcibiades (edited 03-01-2002).]

 

[WildThang]

Originally posted by Giovanni Casanova:
Not exactly. Girls are already "hooked" on that drug called attention. You don't need to "hook" them. /B]

Not quite. Not all attention is equal. Some attention is worth more than other sorts.

Women get cheap low-grade disposable attention from guys all the time. That's why they don't value it. Why should a chick *not* cancel a date on you when she knows you're just like ten million other guys who are going to drool over her the second she walks out the door, and are probably complete losers with women anyway? (Like, if they weren't, why would they be chasing her and looking desparate?)

You may not see it that way. And it may not even be that way. But if that's how *she* sees you, you're out of the game before you've even made a move.

*Quality* attention - i.e. attention from a quality guy, who has big shiny fat apples that look really appealing - is much more valuable.

How come? Because of *why* chicks wants attention.

They want it because it proves to them that they are desirable.

This is the big, unspoken secret of the female ego. Women get all virutally all their status and sexual self-respect just from being desireable to guys.

Now here's the killer - unlike guys, women don't have to *do* anything about being desireable. They don't have to climb mountains, have successful careers, or any of that.

They don't even have to have or want sex. All they need to know is that guys *want* them, and they're done. Once they find that out, they've had all the apples they want from the average guy.

Of course AFCs lay it on thick, so they never get any. And also of course, that's why so much female dating advice is shyt from a guy's point of view. (If you read it, most of it just means 'Give the woman more attention!' Which always really means 'Give me more attention!' Well, duh.)

And also of course, that's why you'll never get a straight 'No' from a chick. (Unless she really thinks you're revolting.) She's protecting her supply, and if you dance like an AFC, she'll keep you on the line for as long as you'll stay there for her, milking you for whatever she can get.

And it's *also* of course why you'll hear that LJBF line echoing around the land.

Bzzzt. Wrong approach. This is not what DJs are about.

Because the most prized kind of attention they can have is attention from a guy who is already desirable to women.

Why? Because if a chick catches a guy like this, it really means something big in chick land. Suddenly she's not just desirable, but more desireable than all the chicks they're competing with. And that means *really* desireable. Whoo fvcking hoo.

Is that it? All there is to it?

Yes. Really. If you can get into this state, you *will* be a killer, master Don Juan.

So to recap for those that have made it this far: successful DJing relies on two things.

The first is making it clear that you can offer *quality* attention.

You don't have to be a fireman, a soldier or an astronaut. (All of those will help, but if you're clueless you'll still be clueless.) What it really means is that you can give the impression that women already want you. Hence social proof, lines like 'So what if you have a boyfriend - I have a girlfriend/wife.' And all of that.

Now, even if it's not true, you absolutely have to create that impression. The goal here is to establish that you are capable of offering rare attention that is not easy to find. Hence that your potential interest (and she never knows if it's any more than potential until it's too late) is worth something to her.

If a woman decides other women want you *she will want that for herself* just to prove that she can, and the other chicks can't.

(This is also why turning around and walking away sometimes is such a good strategy when you're dealing with a biatch. It's not just about self-respect. It's a physical way of you saying that whatever drama is being offered you is beneath your contempt and that if you want to, you have no problem finding some other woman. I.e. you're a desirable guy. And worth chasing.)

The second is to control the supply so that you don't give this attention away. This is where the chick realises she has to work for what you're giving her, and then she *might* get some from you, if she does it right.

So what she does is turns up everything she can to make herself seem more desireable to you. And what you then see is the fabled promised land of high interest.

In fact she wants that 'Yes, I am hooked and smitten with your beauty and depth of character' more than anything else in the world.

You need to give her *some* of this, especially in an LTR, because otherwise it's like having a pet that you never feed enough - it'll either turn vicious, or die.

But you can never, ever give *all* your apples away by letting her realise that she owns you totally. There always has to be some distance there otherwise she'll have had everything she wants from you.

Once that happens, she'll leave. Guaranteed, or double your money back.

All of this is really straight-damn simple once you get it.

 

[Giovanni Casanova]

Well put, WildThang.

 

[Wolf in sheep's clothing]

Good post, WildThang. It helped me clarify things.

So, if I've gotten all this right, I need to generate a certain initial interest level in women. This has to be at least high enough for them to think of me as possibly something better than an AFC. Dont act like an AFC would seem to be the answer here. Act and fell like a DJ 24x7.

Then by getting a woman' phone number and asking her out, I measure her initial interest in me. Does she see me as AFC or not? If not, no bother, I haven't invested any of my attention in her yet. Move on.

If yes, the first date(s) are about me showing her how little of an AFC I am, especially by not validating her desire for attention. I already know she wants at least some of my attention because she is going out with me. Basically, I am out to have some fun and she is there to provide me with some company and be someone to have fun with.

And since I am focusing on having a good time rather than showering her with lots of attention like an AFC would, her desire for attention raises her interest level in me.

And the more interested in me she becomes, the more attention she wants from me, and suddenly I am in control of how the relationship moves along.

Is this making any sense?

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The DJ Bible - Read, practice and enjoy life.

 

[Galactus]

In summary:

Don't give her too much attention, or she won't give you sex.

Next subject.

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"When people go to the circus, they don't want to see clowns. They want to see fvcking lions and tigers, and that's what we are."
-John Gotti

 

[Giovanni Casanova]

Originally posted by galactus:
In summary:

Don't give her too much attention, or she won't give you sex.

Next subject.

In a nutshell, yup.

 

[Wolf in sheep's clothing]

Originally posted by galactus:

Next subject.

I'm glad you are comfortable with your understanding of this stuff. Some of us are not.

 

[DarkDream]

What is so disturbing, that you alluded to, is that the true basis of her attraction is not *you* but her *ego*. The reason a lot of woman do want you, is so she can satisfy *her* ego.

I have woefully experienced that "promised land of high interest." It was simply a ploy to get me hooked. As a DJ said, it is a conquest for them to simply know they have conquered your mind.

A case in point. Last year I was at a bar and ended up talking to a lady. Playing it cool, I seemed interested and preceded to talk to another lady who began to seem to really dig me.

The first lady I talked to did not like it at all that I was showing interest in this *other* woman and not her. The first lady knew the second, and she knew that the one I was talking with would sometimes go home with guys (I learned this later from pillow talk).

So the initial lady preceded to try to get my attention by bumping in to me and trying to interrupt the conversation I was having with the second lady. I, of course, gave her a tid bit and preceded to keep talking to the second lady. The second lady then become more interested in me because the *first* one was blatantly trying to get my attention.

So what happened? The first one got so fed up with *me* not wanting *her* and she knew the woman I was with would put out, she grabbed me and passionately made out with me in front of the second woman, calling me, "honey," and, "I love you so much, boyfriend," and all this type of stuff.

What do I do? I act totally cool, and I say to the woman who just made out with me, "Baby, do you mind, I'm talking to my friend here. I'll talk to you later." She scoots, and I apologize to the second woman. The second woman is absolutely furious! She tells me how rude it was for the chick to do that in front or her and she said that if she was back in her home town, she would kick the woman's ass, so on and so on.

So what happeneds? Well, the chick who saw me making out with the first one subtley asks me to come home with her! She asks for a ride (even though it is only a five minute walk down the road), and tells me how great I am and how she wants to be with me. My friend drove his car over with me, so I offered my friend to take her home, and she practically insisted I come with her.

When this was all going on, I sneaked in a few minutes of talking and making out with the woman who initially made the bold move. It took me around a minute, to arrange me coming home with her.

So basically I had a choice of two women to get in bed with. I ended up going home with the first (more sure thing) and banged her all night.

Before I get to the point I'm driving at, I don't condone this type of behavior. I don't like picking up women from bars anymore. The vast majority of them are not of a good quality and about the best you get out of them are one night stands.

The point I was trying to make is that in the first woman's mind, she would rather risk sleeping with a total stranger than seeing me go home with the other woman. She told me in bed that she hated the first woman and said she was crazy. She also told me that she did not want me to end up with her because of it (amazing how they can delude themselves). The whole thing was completely *ego* driven; she wanted so bad to be more attractive than the other woman that she put out.

Further proof that it was ego driven: the chick I banged did not want to see me again after that one night.

I'm not saying all women are like this. But a lot of them *especially* the beautiful ones are very narcissistic and ego driven.

--DD

 

[icepick]

The True Symbiosis!

Originally posted by Giovanni Casanova

Women have something that men want. Sex. This is obvious. But men have something that women want. Attention.

Yes! Attention is what women need as much as men need sex! Notice that both attention and sex feed the ego.

Originally posted by DarkDream

What is so disturbing, that you alluded to, is that the true basis of her attraction is not *you* but her *ego*. The reason a lot of woman do want you, is so she can satisfy *her* ego.

Sex feeds the male ego (don't try to deny it, the natural feeling--remember when you were young--is "wow I am pimp sh!t for sexing that fine ho!") as much as attention feeds the female ego. (They think "wow I am very desireable, look at all these guys who want me!")

Both laugh at thier conquests of the opposite sex's "wh0res".

We as men laugh with each other about how we each sexed the school slut. And we laugh at any man who tries to start a relationship with her.

Women laugh at the stupid AFCs that give them attention, and surely they would not sleep with him! (But they would gladly accept the attention just like men would gladly accept the sex.)

Sex is woman's currency. Attention is men's. Neither will get what they really want by giving away thier currency so frivolously.

 

[Now What]

bump

 

[djbr]

bump

 

[amoka]

I hunted hard for the post.

-amoka