Need help for a friend.. this is over my head

[backbreaker]

A friend.. i guess you can call him that.. who I met through some people, just left my house crying like a fvcking baby. I don't know what to tell the poor guy.

pepole generally dont' come to me and ask me how to be a pimp or anything, but it doesn't take long to see i have my **** together when it comes to women. Regardless, he calls me, comes over. This guy has been dating a girl for about a year and a half. My GF happens to know the girl very well.Seems like a sweet girl. They have broken up and gotten back together like 6 times now in that time frame.

It's like a cycle. they get together. they go through a honeymoon period. then something, and by something, the wind can blow the wrong way, the water can be too hot and she will get pissy and not talk to him. for weeks sometimes. Then when he has the nerve to say something or stand up for himself it's over and he's an ******* for not being undrstanding of what she is going through.

then she comes back.. sometimes in days, oen time 2 months later.



I say I don't know what to do becuause.. I"m pretty damn sure she isn't cheating. It's not like she is blowing him off to **** another guy. she is just blowing him off... for the sake of blowing him off. And before you go there, let's just say I know.. she's not cheating. we have sources. so that's not it.

and she actually likes the guy. it's ovbious when they are together. I mean she doesn't NOT like him. But at the same time... she doesn't like him. it's the oddest thing i have ever seen.

it's sad becuase the guy is so taken out of his element he can't be a man, half the time he has to walk on eggshelles or he might say something to piss her off and well.. then he can't talk to her.


Is she just bat**** crazy? does he need to move on? how do I justify telling hte guy to move on when she even openly talks about growing old with this guy. he's crazy about this girl. maybe he's just crazy.

 

[LeftyLoosey]

Well, the obvious answer is that he needs to walk away, I mean, this is BEYOND obvious (and I'm sure it's obvious to someone with 5242 posts as well).

The question is, how do you convince this guy to take your direction? The best way is always to lead by example. Maybe tell him about a similar situation that you might've been in at some point in your past - a girl that you were head over heels with that you finally found the balls to leave.

You need to convince him that there are millions of great women out there, and leaving this girl will not be the end of the world. In fact, it will be the beginning.

He has to want your help. Think of it like treating an alcoholic or a drug addict. If they don't want to get better, they can't.

 

[jophil28]

It's like a cycle. they get together. they go through a honeymoon period. then something, and by something, the wind can blow the wrong way, the water can be too hot and she will get pissy and not talk to him. for weeks sometimes. Then when he has the nerve to say something or stand up for himself it's over and he's an ******* for not being undrstanding of what she is going through.

then she comes back.. sometimes in days, oen time 2 months later.


.

The best advice that you can give your friend is "walk away and never go back".
However that is not going to happen because HE could have figured that out all by himself and he has not done it to date.

Research "the cycle of violence". What you have described above resembles that cycle, minus the explosive violence. However female abusers do not generally resort to physical violence. They abuse psychologically.
There are giveaway signs here of him being an abuse victim - his inconsolable crying which followed her actions, returning for more bad treatment, walking on eggshells, SIX breakups( and therefore six make ups), not being safe enough to express himself without being shouted down.

When I first read your post about her I was thinking 'BPD raging', but BPDs always cheat or chronically flirt . They also avoid commitment because of their fear of intimacy. She is talking life commitment here - thats not the BPD style.
However, this woman is not mentally healthy, not even close, and for that matter neither is he.
I agree with the other posters that he needs to dump her fast, but this is not going to happen so easily. He is invested in her, heavily, and is not likely to have the stomach(or the spine) for a clean break.

I would start by showing him some of the extensive research on the cycle of abuse. Hopefully it will ultimately have the desired impact.

 

[backbreaker]

the issuse isn't so much if but how.

I know that this is a relationship that needs to end. the problem I have is how do I convince someone that it's a bad relationship when she isnt' cheating and at times does show signs of "life".


poor guy actually think this is all HIS fault. It's like he thinks if he acts jUST RIGHT he can stop all of this. he keeps trying to go "back to the drawing board" because there is something he is doing wrong.

it doesn't... no.. it's not possible in his mind that she is the one with the issue.

 

[backbreaker]

The best advice that you can give your friend is "walk away and never go back".
However that is not going to happen because HE could have figured that out all by himself and he has not done it to date.

Research "the cycle of violence". What you have described above resembles that cycle, minus the explosive violence. However female abusers do not generally resort to physical violence. They abuse psychologically.
There are giveaway signs here of him being an abuse victim - his inconsolable crying which followed her actions, returning for more bad treatment, walking on eggshells, SIX breakups( and therefore six make ups), not being safe enough to express himself without being shouted down.

When I first read your post about her I was thinking 'BPD raging', but BPDs always cheat or chronically flirt . They also avoid commitment because of their fear of intimacy. She is talking life commitment here - thats not the BPD style.
However, this woman is not mentally healthy, not even close, and for that matter neither is he.
I agree with the other posters that he needs to dump her fast, but this is not going to happen so easily. He is invested in her, heavily, and is not likely to have the stomach(or the spine) for a clean break.

I would start by showing him some of the extensive research on the cycle of abuse. Hopefully it will ultimately have the desired impact.

hell I have never heard of the cycle of abuse. interesting stuff there. you are very knowledable and that's why I still hang around from time to time. neve rknow what you might pick up one day.

 

[DJDamage]

It seems as if she's his only viable option left and he is hanging onto her for dear life not only because of oneitis but because he doesn't think he can do better then her.

You probably know him pretty well by now, does he need major improvement both physically, mentally and financially? or just tweeking here and there?!

Tell him that maybe for now he should consider taking some time apart from his relationship and improve his life by himself. Afterwards he should give dating other chicks a try.

 

[Sinistar]

One way to think about is - what if they are this way for the rest of their lives - does your buddy want to live that way - an entire life on eggshells. You probably already asked him that. At the root of that line of thinking it comes down to whether one (or both) of them would change enough for both to be happy. Right now is sounds like your buddy has tried changing so much that his tank is empty and deep down he knows it's not right to change anyways.

The other thought that comes to mind (other than disorder talk) is that this is a classic fight for the frame. Your buddy does not own it. Each time he's asserted himself she gets it right back by pulling away, making him miss her and then she decides to come back. When she discovers he'll take her back, her guilt is relieved but that the same time she just lost a bit more respect for him - FOREVER! The amount a women tests and complicates things is inversely proportional to her level of respect.

Think of it another way. If your buddy booted her (him clearly owning the frame) then she'd be begging to come back if she really loved him. But your friend's predicament is the opposite. Whenever you read "walking on eggshells" you know there's a serious frame problem.

Another couple of thoughts. If he's close to your age, maybe he needs to experience a few more women and STR's before he commits to a woman long term. In other words, why is he trying so hard to make this work when he can literally experience women for another 10yrs before deciding to settle down and have kids. He's placing this woman before himself, his family, his career and his own interests. He's lost track of the fact that at best she should be (and want to be) a compliment to his life .

I hate writing "NEXT" or "DUMP" over and over and over. But why would anyone (her included) want to keep experiencing this over and over again. It's as if people fear they are going to experience something worse than death if the relationship ends.

Short term advice. He better not get her pregnant - this is not a combination that should be living together and raising kids (together or apart).

poor guy actually think this is all HIS fault. It's like he thinks if he acts jUST RIGHT he can stop all of this. he keeps trying to go "back to the drawing board" because there is something he is doing wrong.

...believe it or not, this is actually his answer. Tell him very clearly that when a guy starts thinking this way it's actually transistioned from being over to being harmful (for both parties). A real man knows when something has ended, will face it, make the decision (in the best interests for both) and end it now and for good and not look back. Ask your friend point blank (non threatening) if he is a man. He needs the reminder and the awareness that has been clouded over by long term one-itis. Then go watch Fight Club

 

[Mr. Me]

She doesn't love/respect him. And who could, if he keeps coming whimpering back for more abuse? I'm not knocking him in writing this, the poor guy is way emotionally attached to this woman, a woman who mistreats him. Maybe he's got self-esteem issues, who knows?

In talking to him, you have to touch something inside him where you get him to ponder out why he accepts this low level of behavior toward him - beyond the "it's all my fault" rationalization he may give you. That rationalization is about him feeling guilt, but why does he feel guilt is the place where you have to get him to go. For example, is it because he doesn't feel worthy of someone decent? Is he afraid of success? If you can get him to express what's really going on inside him, you get him to have the aha! moment where he realizes the real reason he takes this abuse and then understands why he needs to change, improve, love himself more, to get a better life going for himself.

 

[amoka]

Simple: Tell him to walk away. I was in a relationship with a woman and broke up with her at least 6 times. Whenever I called to amend, she agreed and she was walking on an egg shell practically ( trying not to piss me off). Anyway, about two months ago, she decided it is over. I thought she was joking but now she has a new boyfriend and does not want anything to do with me. She was nice to me but now, she does not want anything to do with me. Tell your friend to WALK away as far as he can.

 

[decades]

walk away. his problem is he stays in contact. you've had the all stars here tell you to walk away. the trick is he needs to go no contact so he isn't dragged back into the silliness. step 1 walk away. step 2 no contact.

 

[backbreaker]

thanks for the advice. I have a pretty good staritng point now.

Couple of things. he actually does half ass attempt to do some **** right. He does TRY to break contact. she always comes back. He tries to move on. Then he "remembers all the good times"

I think the thing is part of her actually does like him. and he's a likeable guy. not bad looking. not rich but makes a good living. pretty intelligent.

And on the outside she seems pretty normal. above avg family financially. no abuse. not super hot.. i wouldn't even call her hot but she's ****able. really sweet. pretty funny. single child. doubt any abuse or anything


Generally it goes back to Rollo's plates. if he were spinning plates he would SEE better options and wouldnt' put up with this crap

 

[decades]

sounds like backbreaker is as "invested" in this couple staying together as they are. I believe you need to be less emotionally invested in this. It almost sounds like you (and probably your gf) like the idea of "them". I don't know. Maybe you guys do stuff together as couples.

However, theirs is a seriously dysfunctional coupling. I hope you can see clear enough to get beyond your visions of their happiness together, to tell him the truth as we have told it, and not how You see it.

 

[backbreaker]

and that post right there is why I really dont' post here any longer.

how you could draw the conclusion that someohwI want him to stay with a crazy b!tch, simply becuase I'm taking the time to try to help the guy out, is beyond me.

the guy is over my house freaking crying.. a 31 year old man ****ing crying his eyeballs out beucase HE KEEPS FVCKING UP and he doesn't think he deserves this woman. but yet I want them to stay together.

 

[KontrollerX]

Probably not a personality disordered woman but definitely a horrible regular personality type in intimate relationships backbreaker.

This chick is commonly what is known as the control freak.

Sweet in public but treats the men in her life like she's the general or football coach and the guy is the player or soldier just there to take orders and when the guy steps out of line ie acts normal but in a way that she does not approve of the screaming starts which produces the walking on eggshells effect.

My parents had that kind of marriage with my mother being the bully and my father being the scared mouse.

Oh he'd occassionally yell back but mostly it was an eggshells control freak experience that my mother inherited from her own loudmouthed father.

Odd because most of the time my mom is a gentle goofy woman but she's one of those people who can dish things out but can not take it back in equal measure and I think thats the kind of woman your friend is with.

A simple control freak.

This doesn't leave him off the hook though of course and make things entirely the girl's fault.

The guy may have serious issues that he needs to get handled as he may of had the same kind of childhood I did and never learned proper boundaries and never realized it was ok to speak up at times and voice your displeasure over something due to his own mother always yelling at him when she didn't get her way perfectly.

Having learned this way of interaction in his relationship with his mother he has found a girlfriend that simply carries on the same abuse never realizing that its not right or normal for her to go off the deep end at him over nothing and because guys like this think abnormal is normal they find it harder to walk away than a guy with a normal upbringing mindset.

Ultimately all you can do for him is sit him down and ask him that despite all the good times and things he sees in this girl is it all really worth the pain and endless frustration and edge of his seat walking on eggshells madness?

Also like the others have said maybe he had an ok upbringing but this is simply the first girlfriend he's ever had and doesn't believe he can get anything better so thats why he's clinging to this sinking ship.

To get himself out of this predicament he'll either need to come to this forum and let all of us help him if you can't BB or he'll need to talk to a professional psyche doc to see if there are any issues like I brought up that he has that drew him to this toxic woman.

 

[Tazman]

and that post right there is why I really dont' post here any longer.

Yeah but at the same time you say things like "part of her actually does like him". Honestly, what does that matter really? I thought it looked pretty obvious that she's stringing him along as long as he accepts it being this way.

The "only" answer is to leave her. He's your typical insecure guy that doesn't have the confidence to put his foot down and stop taking crap like this. His age and relationship with you changes absolutely nothing.

It sounds like he's going to have to hit rock bottom before he decides to end it for good, I mean his track record says it all. Hopefully he doesn't become even more stressed over this, leading to really destructive behavior.

 

[Mr. Me]

>> He does TRY to break contact. she always comes back. He tries to move on. Then he "remembers all the good times">>

Have him give equal time to remembering the bad times too.

No person is 100% good nor 100% bad, but parts of both. he has to realize that this girl has those bad parts that come with her good parts. he can';t have just the good things, not from her.

She will always deal out pain to him. When he accepts her back, he's permitting the person who causes him pain to return to cause him more pain.

Ultimately, when she does her curtain call on him, he has to be strong enough to cut her off but good. There is no "try". There is "DO".

My god, this is only a woman contacting him. Ask him what would happen if some crazed psychopath drug addicted convicted killer took a liking to him and wanted to be his friend and forced him at gun point to hang with him. Would he become his b!tch? This is easy in comparison. All he has to do is say "hey, have a nice life!" to a chick.

Of course, it's easier said then done because he's so emotionally attached, so he has to become detached first.

>> I think the thing is part of her actually does like him.>>

Re-read what I just wrote.

 

[sodbuster]

The part of him that likes her is 6" below his belt. He needs to learn to use his big head not the little one. You may need to tell him"all women come with a kitty-it's standard equipment"

 

[decades]

and that post right there is why I really dont' post here any longer.

how you could draw the conclusion that someohwI want him to stay with a crazy b!tch, simply becuase I'm taking the time to try to help the guy out, is beyond me.

the guy is over my house freaking crying.. a 31 year old man ****ing crying his eyeballs out beucase HE KEEPS FVCKING UP and he doesn't think he deserves this woman. but yet I want them to stay together.

this is why:

I think the thing is part of her actually does like him. and he's a likeable guy. not bad looking. not rich but makes a good living. pretty intelligent.

And on the outside she seems pretty normal. above avg family financially. no abuse. not super hot.. i wouldn't even call her hot but she's ****able. really sweet. pretty funny. single child. doubt any abuse or anything