The traditional model in use by the majority of ASFers I've met is the following:
-Assume that girls must be "hooked" in order to be interested in you. (Sometimes true to varying degrees)
-Approach with prepared opinion opener designed to engage girls, meanwhile feigning disinterest.
-Assume since you're approaching her, she's automatically more valuable, so...
-Go right into story to in order to display higher value, which will generate the attraction which was previously not present.
-Continue to tell stories, tease girls until you get clear indication of
interest.
-Phase shift into "rapport / comfort" which consists of ordinary conversation, dropping the personality she was interested in initially.
-Bait her into qualifying herself to you, and no matter what she says, SOI her for that. (This step ain't so bad)
-Isolate and escalate. (This one isn't either
Six Common Sticking Points in Execution of the Traditional Model.
Sticking Point #1.
The first problem with this approach is that people mouth canned openers without a context for them. Style had an entire post dedicated to this point alone, so I won't go into detail here. (Rooting - problem with the who lies more opener)
If you want to use opinion openers either: A. Genuinely care about the topic. -or- B. Make sure it's obvious that the opinion opener is just an excuse to talk to her. (In this case, ask it and then quickly change topics)
Sticking Point #2.
Secondly, guys spend hours and hours on this website, learning material, preparing a routine stack which is designed to engage girls. These guys go out of their way to learn these girly topics of conversation which the majority of us aren't really interested in, just to get female attention. And then on top of that, they pretend that they aren't really interested in ****ing the girls!
Then, the moment they "stack" these girly openers and DHV's, she's CONVINCED they want something and she knows exactly what they are up to. Feigning disinterest now becomes highly incongruent. I mean seriously. To go out of your way to learn girly topics of conversation, just to have permission to talk to chicks is SUPPLICATION. Entering a females reality just so we can talk to her for a few minutes with the hopes of ****ing her is ridiculous!
Here's an analogy. What if a girl went out of her way to learn all about sports or cars or (insert masculine topic here), even though she didn't really like or understand these things - just so she could relate to guys in conversation? This girl doesn't really care about these things, but is pretending to, and spending hours and hours on the internet learning about them, just so she has permission to talk to guys. Does this telegraph that she
has an interesting life? Is she telegraphing that she is a valued commodity? NO! Exactly the opposite. If a girl like this came up to me, and talked about things that interested me, I might engage her for a bit, but would I be ATTRACTED TO HER? Hell no. Now what if she kept changing subjects and kept desperately trying to find something I wanted to talk about... would that make me more likely to find her interesting?
It may appear to work marvelously because it gets new guys into set, because now they are actually talking to girls whereas previously they stood there and did nothing, having absolutely zero context. But the majority of people reading this do not need that kind of content to be interesting to women. Learning girly topics of conversation WILL get you to open more sets consistently - but it's under an entertainment / girlfriend frame, and while things will seem great that night, she will be almost guaranteed to flake. You won't get laid.
I've questioned SHBs (after I've slept with them and they're more honest) about this. These are girls who go out and are almost always the hottest girls in the club, wherever they go. This is what one of them told me:
"Yeah sometimes we talk to guys out of pity. If a guy seems really weird or is dressed gay or something, we'll talk to him just so we can laugh about him later. It's fun. He thinks he's getting somewhere, but then at the end we run away from him laughing."
Girls will talk to sufficiently weird enough guys who "seem gay" for THEIR OWN ENTERTAINMENT. This is a fact, and very common with hot girls. They will sit there and eye code each other, loving it, not because they are sexually attracted, but OUT OF PITY. Don't design your game so that you are becoming this type of guy. Sure you are opening more sets, but it's for the wrong
reason.
Sticking Point #3.
Demonstrating Higher Value. The reason why this is detrimental once again goes back to the mindset behind it. Feeling the need to demonstrate higher value is the same feeling that an AFC has when he starts bragging about his job or car or girls he's banging. Sure, you are using a more sophisticated technique, but
the mindset and beliefs behind it are EXACTLY THE SAME.
Never go out of your way to demonstrate higher value. Assume higher value! You're the ****ing man! You have higher value automatically!
I tell plenty of stories in set, but I do it for fun, because I'm having fun doing it -- not with the intent of "proving myself" to the girl.
Sticking Point #4.
It is impossible to fake disinterest 100% of the time. Even if you memorize 5 stories, 3 teases and absolutely MASTER the backturn, it doesn't matter because you'll fail the next test she throws at you. Women are CONTINUALLY testing guys they are attracted to, and most of it doesn't fit a predetermined pattern
-- IT's NONVERBAL. I get tested all the time by women. They're thinking "Who the **** does he think he is, this skinny little ****er... I'm gonna see if he's for real. I hope he's not wasting my time." So they have to test you. They don't want to **** some ingenuine guy that faked the first 10 minutes really well. You have got to be the real deal through and through, my friend.
And faking any more than you can back up, will just insight more intense tests which you are bound to fail.
Don't fake disinterest unless you can back it up 100%.
Sticking Point #5.
Relying on IOI's in order feel like it's *on*, instead of assuming attraction. Thinking too much and calculating your behavior based on watching for IOI's. Don't wait around for IOI's before feeling good about the sarge. Her interest will be based on your vibe anyway, and if your vibe is dependent on watching for predetermined IOI's, then you are leaving it up to chance.
Let's face it, most IOI's that people look for are pretty ordinary behaviors that women exhibit when you talk to them anyway. Some of the popular one's I've heard are:
She asks you where you're from - This is one of the most common pieces of smalltalk when you're first getting to know each other. She may be asking you this just to be friendly, it doesn't mean she wants to **** you.
She touches you - women are actually more likely to touch you if they aren't as attracted to you, as a way of playing with you. If a woman senses extremely high value, and is a bit intimidated, she is less likely to touch you. She is also less likely to touch you first if you are very direct. Of course, if you don't even have a chance, she won't touch you at all. Either way, unreliable as an IOI.
Remember, one of the two things necessary in pickup is the belief that the girl wants you. It may be difficult to believe at first but keep reminding yourself of this, and train yourself to see *everything* she does as an IOI. Is she looking at you when you talk? It's on. Is she contributing to the conversation? It's on. Is she standing in your physical proximity? It's ON!
Sticking Point #6.
Dropping the personality that initially attracted her as a part of a "phase shift", mistakenly thinking it takes X amount of time to attract a woman, or feeling the need to "transition into" X,Y or Z.
It sounds like three different points, but really they all stem from the same type of beliefs and mindsets. They come from leftover society programming like "It takes a long time for women to become attracted." or "Men have to earn a woman's attention and attraction."
If you do actually do well to convey a fun personality to a chick in the first few moments of meeting her, such that she is attracted to you, you should maintain that same fun personality while getting to know her better and deepening your connection. Intersperse your c+f and playfullness with your rapport. But at all costs, stay congruent and do not become someone else
entirely.
On the flip side, do not stay in a perpetual attraction stage where you are running material for the upwards of 10 - 20 minutes. That is WAY too long. If you use a couple of fun pieces to open a set, and they respond well to that, they have already made a positive judgement of you. Keep it light on the material and rely more on sharing positive energy with the set, and particularly your target.
Also a lot of people believe that you need a 'transition' to do certain things - especially kinesthetic related actions like touching, kissing, and cavemanning. You do not need a transition for these types of things. You just need to do them with the full certainty that she will enjoy it. Decide what you are going to do, and do it like you mean it.
-Assume that girls must be "hooked" in order to be interested in you. (Sometimes true to varying degrees)
-Approach with prepared opinion opener designed to engage girls, meanwhile feigning disinterest.
-Assume since you're approaching her, she's automatically more valuable, so...
-Go right into story to in order to display higher value, which will generate the attraction which was previously not present.
-Continue to tell stories, tease girls until you get clear indication of
interest.
-Phase shift into "rapport / comfort" which consists of ordinary conversation, dropping the personality she was interested in initially.
-Bait her into qualifying herself to you, and no matter what she says, SOI her for that. (This step ain't so bad)
-Isolate and escalate. (This one isn't either
Six Common Sticking Points in Execution of the Traditional Model.
Sticking Point #1.
The first problem with this approach is that people mouth canned openers without a context for them. Style had an entire post dedicated to this point alone, so I won't go into detail here. (Rooting - problem with the who lies more opener)
If you want to use opinion openers either: A. Genuinely care about the topic. -or- B. Make sure it's obvious that the opinion opener is just an excuse to talk to her. (In this case, ask it and then quickly change topics)
Sticking Point #2.
Secondly, guys spend hours and hours on this website, learning material, preparing a routine stack which is designed to engage girls. These guys go out of their way to learn these girly topics of conversation which the majority of us aren't really interested in, just to get female attention. And then on top of that, they pretend that they aren't really interested in ****ing the girls!
Then, the moment they "stack" these girly openers and DHV's, she's CONVINCED they want something and she knows exactly what they are up to. Feigning disinterest now becomes highly incongruent. I mean seriously. To go out of your way to learn girly topics of conversation, just to have permission to talk to chicks is SUPPLICATION. Entering a females reality just so we can talk to her for a few minutes with the hopes of ****ing her is ridiculous!
Here's an analogy. What if a girl went out of her way to learn all about sports or cars or (insert masculine topic here), even though she didn't really like or understand these things - just so she could relate to guys in conversation? This girl doesn't really care about these things, but is pretending to, and spending hours and hours on the internet learning about them, just so she has permission to talk to guys. Does this telegraph that she
has an interesting life? Is she telegraphing that she is a valued commodity? NO! Exactly the opposite. If a girl like this came up to me, and talked about things that interested me, I might engage her for a bit, but would I be ATTRACTED TO HER? Hell no. Now what if she kept changing subjects and kept desperately trying to find something I wanted to talk about... would that make me more likely to find her interesting?
It may appear to work marvelously because it gets new guys into set, because now they are actually talking to girls whereas previously they stood there and did nothing, having absolutely zero context. But the majority of people reading this do not need that kind of content to be interesting to women. Learning girly topics of conversation WILL get you to open more sets consistently - but it's under an entertainment / girlfriend frame, and while things will seem great that night, she will be almost guaranteed to flake. You won't get laid.
I've questioned SHBs (after I've slept with them and they're more honest) about this. These are girls who go out and are almost always the hottest girls in the club, wherever they go. This is what one of them told me:
"Yeah sometimes we talk to guys out of pity. If a guy seems really weird or is dressed gay or something, we'll talk to him just so we can laugh about him later. It's fun. He thinks he's getting somewhere, but then at the end we run away from him laughing."
Girls will talk to sufficiently weird enough guys who "seem gay" for THEIR OWN ENTERTAINMENT. This is a fact, and very common with hot girls. They will sit there and eye code each other, loving it, not because they are sexually attracted, but OUT OF PITY. Don't design your game so that you are becoming this type of guy. Sure you are opening more sets, but it's for the wrong
reason.
Sticking Point #3.
Demonstrating Higher Value. The reason why this is detrimental once again goes back to the mindset behind it. Feeling the need to demonstrate higher value is the same feeling that an AFC has when he starts bragging about his job or car or girls he's banging. Sure, you are using a more sophisticated technique, but
the mindset and beliefs behind it are EXACTLY THE SAME.
Never go out of your way to demonstrate higher value. Assume higher value! You're the ****ing man! You have higher value automatically!
I tell plenty of stories in set, but I do it for fun, because I'm having fun doing it -- not with the intent of "proving myself" to the girl.
Sticking Point #4.
It is impossible to fake disinterest 100% of the time. Even if you memorize 5 stories, 3 teases and absolutely MASTER the backturn, it doesn't matter because you'll fail the next test she throws at you. Women are CONTINUALLY testing guys they are attracted to, and most of it doesn't fit a predetermined pattern
-- IT's NONVERBAL. I get tested all the time by women. They're thinking "Who the **** does he think he is, this skinny little ****er... I'm gonna see if he's for real. I hope he's not wasting my time." So they have to test you. They don't want to **** some ingenuine guy that faked the first 10 minutes really well. You have got to be the real deal through and through, my friend.
And faking any more than you can back up, will just insight more intense tests which you are bound to fail.
Don't fake disinterest unless you can back it up 100%.
Sticking Point #5.
Relying on IOI's in order feel like it's *on*, instead of assuming attraction. Thinking too much and calculating your behavior based on watching for IOI's. Don't wait around for IOI's before feeling good about the sarge. Her interest will be based on your vibe anyway, and if your vibe is dependent on watching for predetermined IOI's, then you are leaving it up to chance.
Let's face it, most IOI's that people look for are pretty ordinary behaviors that women exhibit when you talk to them anyway. Some of the popular one's I've heard are:
She asks you where you're from - This is one of the most common pieces of smalltalk when you're first getting to know each other. She may be asking you this just to be friendly, it doesn't mean she wants to **** you.
She touches you - women are actually more likely to touch you if they aren't as attracted to you, as a way of playing with you. If a woman senses extremely high value, and is a bit intimidated, she is less likely to touch you. She is also less likely to touch you first if you are very direct. Of course, if you don't even have a chance, she won't touch you at all. Either way, unreliable as an IOI.
Remember, one of the two things necessary in pickup is the belief that the girl wants you. It may be difficult to believe at first but keep reminding yourself of this, and train yourself to see *everything* she does as an IOI. Is she looking at you when you talk? It's on. Is she contributing to the conversation? It's on. Is she standing in your physical proximity? It's ON!
Sticking Point #6.
Dropping the personality that initially attracted her as a part of a "phase shift", mistakenly thinking it takes X amount of time to attract a woman, or feeling the need to "transition into" X,Y or Z.
It sounds like three different points, but really they all stem from the same type of beliefs and mindsets. They come from leftover society programming like "It takes a long time for women to become attracted." or "Men have to earn a woman's attention and attraction."
If you do actually do well to convey a fun personality to a chick in the first few moments of meeting her, such that she is attracted to you, you should maintain that same fun personality while getting to know her better and deepening your connection. Intersperse your c+f and playfullness with your rapport. But at all costs, stay congruent and do not become someone else
entirely.
On the flip side, do not stay in a perpetual attraction stage where you are running material for the upwards of 10 - 20 minutes. That is WAY too long. If you use a couple of fun pieces to open a set, and they respond well to that, they have already made a positive judgement of you. Keep it light on the material and rely more on sharing positive energy with the set, and particularly your target.
Also a lot of people believe that you need a 'transition' to do certain things - especially kinesthetic related actions like touching, kissing, and cavemanning. You do not need a transition for these types of things. You just need to do them with the full certainty that she will enjoy it. Decide what you are going to do, and do it like you mean it.
