englishman
Master Don Juan
Im telling you its true, they divorce you and keep the fvcing house!
N.American women=best housekeepers
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iveyleeger
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So fukking true. Apartments, too. And don't forget the car and the dog.
Francisco d'Anconia
Master Don Juan
:crackup: :crackup: :crackup:
al77
Master Don Juan
We all agree it is true and funny. But does anyone like it?
I suspect a poll would get 100% NO.
So how would you.. did you deal with it?
The only thing I know is a prenuptual agreement, still, you have to know what to put in it and how....
Any tips on how to be a good housekeeper ourselves?
I suspect a poll would get 100% NO.
So how would you.. did you deal with it?
The only thing I know is a prenuptual agreement, still, you have to know what to put in it and how....
Any tips on how to be a good housekeeper ourselves?
iveyleeger
Senior Don Juan
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Yeah, don't get married.
al77
Master Don Juan
Re: Re: N.American women=best housekeepers
Does anyone has experience with prenups? Is it a costly thing to do (lawyer's time is not cheap)? What people usually ut into prenup? Does it really help?
libre
Don Juan
Well, from what I can gather that would probably not be acceptable in the US, however in Canada, «shacking up» is quite common and accepted. If you decide to split, there are quite fewer constraints and obligations.
Personnally this is what I did for 14 years with my children's mother. Once I decided to call it quits, we sold the house, separated the proceeds and that was almost it.
You guys in the US should go for an arrangement like that.
Personnally this is what I did for 14 years with my children's mother. Once I decided to call it quits, we sold the house, separated the proceeds and that was almost it.
You guys in the US should go for an arrangement like that.
al77
Master Don Juan
Sure, it would be not bad at all.. but there are so many questions:
You sold the house, how didn't divide the money you get out of the sale?
What if she claims she put more money in the house and therefore... owns it?
What if she claims she is going to get the house since she's going to take care of kids?
What if she claims that the house was your gift to her?
Not many have common sense...so they can easily make very outrageous claims.
libre
Don Juan
I agree that there are problems to be solved, but you have less «contractual» obligations from which you must get over if you are not maried. State laws and «provincial» laws, as is the case in Canada differ in a separation, but generally a simple separation is less involved than divorce from a mariage.
In my case, we both of us worked. We payed 50 % 50 % for the house so we split the proceeds 50 % each.
We now have joint «stewardship» of the children which are in each of our care one week at a time. So she could not ask for the house to keep the children.
Our children change house every week. As parents we can both then enjoy the presence of our children, and the children enjoy the parenting of both parents. This way, my children didn't lose their dad which is so often the sad case in a separation.
Sure, my ex «spouse» (and not wife) could have caused quite an amount of problems if she had wanted to, but it doesn't have to be this way.
In my case, we both of us worked. We payed 50 % 50 % for the house so we split the proceeds 50 % each.
We now have joint «stewardship» of the children which are in each of our care one week at a time. So she could not ask for the house to keep the children.
Our children change house every week. As parents we can both then enjoy the presence of our children, and the children enjoy the parenting of both parents. This way, my children didn't lose their dad which is so often the sad case in a separation.
Sure, my ex «spouse» (and not wife) could have caused quite an amount of problems if she had wanted to, but it doesn't have to be this way.
al77
Master Don Juan
What you are saying you got lucky with your ex. I certainly agree.
The problem is what to do if you are not that lucky, which is the the case in the most cases?
Read the following articles: they got a hand on things
http://www.askmen.com/fashion/austin_60/92_fashion_style.html
http://www.askmen.com/money/investing/28_investing.html
http://www.askmen.com/fashion/austin_100/108c_fashion_style.html
libre
Don Juan
Lucky yes and no.
The part for which I was lucky is that my ex could have given me trouble and refuse to share joint «stewardship» of our children. From what I read about the horror cases that proceed to courts is that the judges too frequently favor the mothers for according gardienship of the children. Ence the movement that originated in the UK «Fathers4justice». She could have given me trouble and I could have had to proceed to the law courts to obtain stewardship of my children.
The rest of the issues is not a question of luck in Québec.
Apart from the children «stewardship» issue, in Québec, in a «common relationship» which is not a mariage (I don't know the proper expression in english) the «spouses» do not have any legal and financial obligations towards each other.
So, in a case of separation, the spouses do not have further obligations towards the other one. The separation of assets is somewhat an «accounting» issue. What each puts in, gets out generally.
In my case, I would never have chosen a spouse who didn't work and I didn't. So, we each contributed equally to the house expenses. I made more money than her, so I did spend more for the upkeep of the familly expenses (food, ...), but that was ok and expected in a familial arrangement.
When came the time to separate the proceeds of our «common relationship», we separated the proceeds from the house equally; we separated the rest according of who bought what. After that, well to each his own (almost).
What I myself am quite wary and would not tolerate is to keep a wife at home who would take care of the kids. In that scenario, if ever the relationsip fails (50% of couples), you can be in quite an amount of financial trouble if you are married. In that case, well good luck to you because you will need it!
The part for which I was lucky is that my ex could have given me trouble and refuse to share joint «stewardship» of our children. From what I read about the horror cases that proceed to courts is that the judges too frequently favor the mothers for according gardienship of the children. Ence the movement that originated in the UK «Fathers4justice». She could have given me trouble and I could have had to proceed to the law courts to obtain stewardship of my children.
The rest of the issues is not a question of luck in Québec.
Apart from the children «stewardship» issue, in Québec, in a «common relationship» which is not a mariage (I don't know the proper expression in english) the «spouses» do not have any legal and financial obligations towards each other.
So, in a case of separation, the spouses do not have further obligations towards the other one. The separation of assets is somewhat an «accounting» issue. What each puts in, gets out generally.
In my case, I would never have chosen a spouse who didn't work and I didn't. So, we each contributed equally to the house expenses. I made more money than her, so I did spend more for the upkeep of the familly expenses (food, ...), but that was ok and expected in a familial arrangement.
When came the time to separate the proceeds of our «common relationship», we separated the proceeds from the house equally; we separated the rest according of who bought what. After that, well to each his own (almost).
What I myself am quite wary and would not tolerate is to keep a wife at home who would take care of the kids. In that scenario, if ever the relationsip fails (50% of couples), you can be in quite an amount of financial trouble if you are married. In that case, well good luck to you because you will need it!
Prenuptials are regularly.......
thrown out and your wife will still take the house, your assets and your income.
I am planning on doing some empircal research on this.
But if you want to get a cheap prenuptial; go down to the court house and look through the divorce records (they're public records) and make a copy of a bunch of them.
**** Lawyers!
Geoff
thrown out and your wife will still take the house, your assets and your income.
I am planning on doing some empircal research on this.
But if you want to get a cheap prenuptial; go down to the court house and look through the divorce records (they're public records) and make a copy of a bunch of them.
**** Lawyers!
Geoff
Crank_It_Up
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I was listening to this very subject on a talk radio show a few months ago. The guest speaker was some sort of authority on the issue, but who knows?
What she said was this... in the state of texas, a prenup does not stand up in court to anything the couple gained after the wedding. It will only protect the stuff the guy had before they were married. No matter what the wording of the prenup said, it will not keep her from getting half of everything the couple gained during the marriage. She advised all women to go ahead and sign any prenup since it was basically meaningless anyway.
What she said was this... in the state of texas, a prenup does not stand up in court to anything the couple gained after the wedding. It will only protect the stuff the guy had before they were married. No matter what the wording of the prenup said, it will not keep her from getting half of everything the couple gained during the marriage. She advised all women to go ahead and sign any prenup since it was basically meaningless anyway.
ShortTimer
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"If you really loved me you'd let me have a prenup."Originally posted by Oxide
"Why would we get a prenup, are you saying you dont believe in our love?"
..and the similar "If you are in love, you dont need a prenup"
Or how about "A prenup is a sign that the relationship lacks trust and is bound to fail"
... how would you go around this?
OR
"Baby, love ain't good enough to make a marriage last. So you sign that prenup or no diamond ring for you!"
al77
Master Don Juan
Sh**!!!! That means in every divorced women are "stripping down" men? (Since obviously in marriage men earn more and buy more stuff than women).
Is there any way to deal with it? If you paid off a house completely, in case of divorced she will get a half of it? Thats just ridiculuous...what is it based on?
And the most important question: Can we do something about it?
libre
Don Juan
It is hard to get around these self serving arguments from the women who use them. If you are prepared for them, you can answer that if they do value their love, they won't have problems with signing a prenup. You can also ask them if they are lining themselves for a «money grab» and if that is what their conception of love is. You can tell them that if they are not there for a money grab, they should not have any problems with signing a prenup.
However, as I acknowledge that it would be hard to get a prenup, that is why I propose that you shack up and not get married. In Québec, Canada, that is the easiest way to live in a «loving» relationship and when any of the «partners» wants to call it quits, he can pick up his marbles and leave.
You can argue that shacking up has the advantage that it keeps both partners on their toes in a relationship. You must never take your partner for granted. (That's the mistake that my ex made and I did pick up my marbles when I got fed up with her).
I suppose that it must also be possible to «shack up» in other jurisdictions. From what I can gather, in the US religion plays a greater part in the mores of life so it is less acceptable to do so. Well, do you want to get the noose around your neck or do you prefer to stand up to the questionning looks of your neigbours?
In my family I did get quite a few comments as to my «extraconjugal» status for a few years. I mostly ignored them for a while; after a few years when it continued to come up again, I told them to mind their own business and that was it.
However, as I acknowledge that it would be hard to get a prenup, that is why I propose that you shack up and not get married. In Québec, Canada, that is the easiest way to live in a «loving» relationship and when any of the «partners» wants to call it quits, he can pick up his marbles and leave.
You can argue that shacking up has the advantage that it keeps both partners on their toes in a relationship. You must never take your partner for granted. (That's the mistake that my ex made and I did pick up my marbles when I got fed up with her).
I suppose that it must also be possible to «shack up» in other jurisdictions. From what I can gather, in the US religion plays a greater part in the mores of life so it is less acceptable to do so. Well, do you want to get the noose around your neck or do you prefer to stand up to the questionning looks of your neigbours?
In my family I did get quite a few comments as to my «extraconjugal» status for a few years. I mostly ignored them for a while; after a few years when it continued to come up again, I told them to mind their own business and that was it.
al77
Master Don Juan
Religion? My guess is just women are much more money oriented: they see, hear all those stories when she got millions after divorce... well, they want at least to start with somehting.
Besides, most relatively young women want kids and they are not willing to have them outside marriage - which does make sense.
In some states if you "shack up" long enough, they will consider it as a marrige in court. Even in Québec, today you can do that.. tomorrow they will think up a new law like I mentioned and.. what are you gonna do?
Anyway, there should be a better solution for example, in marriage:
a) ask her to pay 50% of the house no matter what.
b) spend as much money as possible on something that doesn't have material value: travels, food, concerts, books etc
c) if you really want to buy costly stuff (a boat) for example, ask her to invest half.
How about that?
By the way, does your savings account count, i.e. do yu have to give her half of your money in the bank after a divorce?
