Muscleman's Journal

[muscleman]

Hey everyone, I'm Muscleman and going to be turning 26 this year. I've been a member of this board for some time, but have taken a 1.5 year hiatus as of late. When I first came here I was a very confused college student. I had slept with a few girls and had a few relationships, but still felt like all of that was a byproduct of randomness. My father, although I love him, wasn't the most ideal role model when it came to women - in fact he taught me next to nothing about them. So I set out to discover the rules and secrets of interpersonal relationships. I read some great books (The Art of Seduction, The 48 Laws of Power, How to Win Friends and Influence People, The Game), some cheesy dating guides, received a wealth of great information here, and had my own boot camp of sorts.

In 2007 I slept with more girls than ever in a year which was my goal at the time. I even casually dated two girls at once, a major milestone for me. Near the end of that year I met a girl who I ended up dating for 1.5 years, my longest (and most fulfilling) relationship to date. I regret very little of it. We recently broke up for a variety of reasons, but mainly an incompatibility of lifestyles and wanting different things. It was the only non-messy breakup I've had and I've definitely learned a lot. What I learned most was that I'm not ready for a serious relationship. I enjoy the comfort of always having someone there, but I'm not ready to take it to next level (marriage and kids). In fact, I don't think I'll be ready until my early/mid 30s. Both Rollo and my mother kept hammering this in and I think the blows finally landed.

For the first time in my life I'm completely on my own and I'm not quite sure what to do. I'm an adult now, but I'm still a bit lost. Women are no longer my end goal, but they are still an important part of my life. I feel like I've only begun to scratch the surface of what's out there. So I'd like to start a journal about my path through my late 20s. I think this will be one of (if not the) most important few years of my life and I could use the guidance of those more experienced.

I'm in a good place right now. I have a few successes, but also some shortcomings. I graduated college with a bachelor's and I'm a digital designer by profession. I have a 9-5 that I enjoy. It pays well, for the time being. I'm probably going to go back for my MBA. I just bought a condo in a great neighborhood which has all the makings of a bachelor pad. I have my own ride and no outstanding debt. I'm good looking. Not the best out there, but definitely above average. I very big into fitness so I stay in shape. With some more dedication I could have a respectable beach bod. So what's my problem?

Social interaction. I've moved from place to place most of my life and have seen friends come and go on a regular basis. I never had the opportunity to see someone in college who I went to 1st grade with. I've never had long-term friends. For better or for worse I don't know, but as a result I've never developed, or felt the need to develop, long-lasting relationships with other people. Almost all the "friends" I've had past my teens have been friends of then-girlfriends whom I saw as acquaintances at best. After the breakups, I never saw them again so once more I was friendless.

I'm now beginning to see the necessity to take time out and network more as well as build a solid circle of friends. At this point there's really only one person I can call my friend - a coworker. We hang out ~once a week. His experience with girls is below mine, but we have similar desires and attributes and he's an ok wing with potential to be pretty good. There are some other coworkers I'm cool with, but don't really see outside the office. I also happen to work at a predominantly male company, so my relationships are somewhat lopsided.

Outside of my professional (financial) and fitness goals, I have a couple things I need to work on, but require help:

1) Getting some friends/networking/building a social circle. I'm not 100% sure on the best way to go about this. Me and my buddy went to a bar last weekend with the goal of sarging, but that didn't go over too well. I did however meet another friend I haven't seen for a long time and exchanged contact info. I do have some people in my phone that I've hung out with in recent history and as soon as I finish setting my place up I hope to throw my first get-together ... ever. I want to solidify some relationships I have and hopefully build some new ones. Any tips?

2) Getting better with women, everywhere. At this point I'm not looking for a serious relationship - just some casual fun with a few plates. If the girl of my dreams pops up, I'll bite, but I'm not looking for it. I've managed a strategy, if you want to call it that, for picking up girls off Myspace, taking them to a movie theater, and sleeping with them that night. It worked a few times in a row. Some turned into ONS, others into relationships. It's a huge crutch though. I don't remember that last time I met a girl at a bar, or at some other public place, and ended up sleeping with her. I think I'm good at kino, and I'm a decent conversationalist (especially after a couple brews), but I just don't have the game I need - I never developed it.

I'll be reporting on my progress, asking questions, and hopefully learning everything I need to become the Man I want. Thanks for reading and by all means, share anything and everything you think could be helpful!

 

[muscleman]

So I was reading through some posts and came across this article: http://denisdutton.com/baumeister.htm

Kind of explains my social situation and a lack of close friends, but a preference towards a larger network of acquaintances:

"The gist of our view was that there are two different ways of being social. In social psychology we tend to emphasize close, intimate relationships, and yes, perhaps women specialize in those and are better at them than men. But one can also look at being social in terms of having larger networks of shallower relationships, and on these, perhaps, men are more social than women.

..........

The same two-spheres conclusion is supported in plenty of other places. Playground observation studies find that girls pair off and play one-on-one with the same playmate for the full hour. Boys will either play one-on-one with a series of different playmates or with a larger group. Girls want the one-to-one relationship, whereas boys are drawn to bigger groups or networks.

When two girls are playing together and the researchers bring in a third one, the two girls resist letting her join. But two boys will let a third boy join their game. My point is that girls want the one-on-one connection, so adding a third person spoils the time for them, but it doesn’t spoil it for the boys.

The conclusion is that men and women are both social but in different ways. Women specialize in the narrow sphere of intimate relationships. Men specialize in the larger group. If you make a list of activities that are done in large groups, you are likely to have a list of things that men do and enjoy more than women: team sports, politics, large corporations, economic networks, and so forth."

Anyone care to comment?

 

[muscleman]

Alright, so while I'm slowly .. really slowly, getting my place set up I'm having some time to think. Actually now that I'm single again I have a lot of time to think.

I'm confused about how I should go about meeting girls, that is, if I really need to go out of my way and if so, where? I was talking to my mom the other day and she mentioned again that "women are going to be all over you now that you're single, you have a job, and you have your own place" ... I've yet to see it though.

I'm focusing most of my time on myself and building up the base I need for a successful future, but I still want women in my life. I just don't want to get sucked up by it again.

One thing bothers me a little. I'm really big into working out and I like a girl who does the same. Not to same degree as me, but just someone who willfully jumps on a treadmill a couple times a week - maybe even lift some weights. I can't seem to find many though. I guess I should check out the cardio section of the gym sometime. All the girls seem to be at the pool or at the bar.

It seems like there's also a bit of a shortage of "hot chicks" here in the midwest. I see all these girls in LA, Miami, the big cities ... do they all just naturally migrate there? Is that where the "high value" women are?

Here's another thing: because health is important to me, I don't drink much. I mean I'll go to a bar once a week and maybe have a beer or two one other night but that's it. The last girl I dated would drink more days a week than not which pissed me off a little.

Comments?

 

[Mr. Me]

>> One thing bothers me a little. I'm really big into working out and I like a girl who does the same. Not to same degree as me, but just someone who willfully jumps on a treadmill a couple times a week - maybe even lift some weights. I can't seem to find many though. I guess I should check out the cardio section of the gym sometime. All the girls seem to be at the pool or at the bar.

Chicks that are into working out will more likely be at the gym, though not all of them. And I see musclemen out on the town with the physically fit chicks they met at the gym. Though you're going to have to go through the whole "we were compatible at the gym but it didn't work out" level. She may be into lifting weights and have tight abs and understand the importance of eating clean but it doesn't make her a great woman to be with. I feel your pain. There are hot, fit chicks who never feel the need to see a gym because of lifestyle or gifted metabolism. Find a balance where you're happy with their bodies and who they are as a person. At your age, don't settle for one. Go out with many.

>> It seems like there's also a bit of a shortage of "hot chicks" here in the midwest. I see all these girls in LA, Miami, the big cities ... do they all just naturally migrate there? >>

Put it this way: These girls can do better then the local waters offer, and so off they go to those big cities to seek their fortunes. You ready to match that? And maybe think about moving somewhere to where the women and career ops are.

>> Is that where the "high value" women are? >>

Depends on your definition of "high value", doesn't it?

>> Here's another thing: because health is important to me, I don't drink much. I mean I'll go to a bar once a week and maybe have a beer or two one other night but that's it. >>

Be true to thyself. It may not be popular with most women, but how do you wish to live your life? With no alcohol, some alcohol or all alcohol, and that, for the sake of women? You decide, and whomever joins you on that journey is someone you attracted because of it.

 

[muscleman]

Well, as I mentioned at this point I just want to date around so I'm not too concerned with relationship material vs not.

As far moving to a different city, it's definitely a possibility, and probably a reality, just not til ~30. My reasoning for staying here is this:
-I have a great starter job with decent pay and decent raises, which will help me build a solid work history.
-I'll probably be going back to school for my MBA.
-I just bought a place and don't want to lose the 8k I get for free.

My family is less than an hour away as well. Granted it's not a main reason, but it is nice to be able to see them once a week or so. There are definitely career opportunities in the bigger cities based on my field. I should probably go to all of them for a few days to get a sense for the lifestyle.

For now my definition of "high value" is how many guys want to sleep with her - so 99% looks. There are some things that are repulsive to me (smoking, heavy drugs, and I'm allergic to cats), but beyond that if she's hot and presumably clean I'm good to go. Oh, and no kids. Don't want to deal with single moms.

---------------

After reading that article I linked earlier and refreshing my memory with some older posts here, I'm wondering if once again I'm going about meeting women the wrong way. I keep thinking of how things were 200, 500, 1000, 2000 years ago when we didn't have a lot of the social conventions we do now. The most successful (strongest/wealthiest) men had many wives. They didn't "pick up chicks", chicks came to them.

So what's changed? On the one hand we're told here to "not chase women", to "be the prize", but on the other hand we go sarging, we open girls, we ask girls out on dates, we initiate, etc. Unless I'm completely off target, something doesn't make sense here. It's like ... now when you go to a bar a hot girl comes in, stands around all night and guys jump all over her/buy her drinks. What about the hot guy who comes in and stands around all night? Are girls going to jump all over him and buy him drinks? I realize it's not completely apples to apples, but at what point in our timeline did girls become the center of attention? (someone please explain this)

Celebrity is an exception, but I attribute a lot of that to luck. Yes, there are some extremely talented famous people out there, but think of the selection process. There have got to be tons of Brad Pitt spin-offs, the ones who didn't quite make it.

I mean, if I get all ripped, make tons of $, and move to a bigger city, are chicks all of a sudden going to be knocking on my door? I don't know.

I guess what I'm trying to get at is I'm confused about how to properly go about this. I can spend more time going after girls, maybe getting a few here and there, or I can spend more time going after my own goals, but with no idea of how many girls will "come along". Either way I'm going after both, just to varying degrees.

 

[Mr. Me]

>> Well, as I mentioned at this point I just want to date around so I'm not too concerned with relationship material vs not.>>

Right, but at the same time, you don't want to have your world rocked around by lousy women. Let me explain, you meet a chick, you get the signals that she's low grade, but she's smoking hot and you wanna bang her and you say to yourself, "simple. I won't get involved". Famous last words. That's why many guys get stuck on the strippers they've dated. Or read the posts here where a guy starts fooling around with a tramp and he's posting because he's gotten way too involved and he's in a mess. I'm just saying.

>> my definition of "high value" is how many guys want to sleep with her - so 99% looks>>

Personally, I wouldn't define looks as being high value. Lots of women are really good looking, but sure aren't valuable. Imagine a fine piece of cake that's rotten on the inside. They're drama queens or b!tchy or moochers or have whatever daddy issues they have. Most of them are just insane. Some of the hotter ones f@ck like porn stars but outside of the bedroom be ready for a roller coaster ride of sheer crazy. Anyhow, your question really is "The big city - is that where the really good looking women are?" The answer is "Yes". Women use their good looks (that's their only asset) to further their careers and lives, so they're apt to move to where the money, fame and fortune is and congregate there.

>> On the one hand we're told here to "not chase women", to "be the prize", but on the other hand we go sarging, we open girls, we ask girls out on dates, we initiate, etc. Unless I'm completely off target, something doesn't make sense here.>>

Opening girls and getting numbers and getting dates isn't "chasing". That's simply you doing the man's role of being the Agressor. Chasing is more like calling her every other day trying to land a date, pushing, rushing her, kinoing her before she's ready to be kino'd, trying to get her all the time, even when she's not returning the attention or interested. I think "Being the Prize" is a mental state of mind that has to also reflect facts: You're in shape, you're civilized, you're smart, you have a great personality, charming, attractive, tasteful, good career, no major issues or baggage, you have a full life, are independent, etc. and recognizing that this, in regards to women, makes you one valuable commodity.

>> I'm confused about how to properly go about this.>>

I'd say your primary focus has to be your goals and passions and interests in life. Women will come and go in and out of your life, perhaps your entire life long. You will, however, always be the only one living your life, every second of it, whether you're with someone or all alone. So you have to have your own life foremost - no one else can become your life for you or they'll take it with them when they leave. Then make time for other people, say, you'll spend two nights a week meeting girls, and be open to when chance has you meeting women when you're not specifically out sarging.

 

[ChumpNoMore]

Muscleman, I'm going to echo Mr. Me's sentiment; now that I'm older I look back and sure wish when I was in my 20's that I had spent less time chasing tail, and more effort improving myself: friendships and relationships, career, finances, health and pastimes.

It took me until my 30's to realize that. Be open to meeting new women, and by all means be available and circulate socially - but DO NOT make it a priority. EVER.

 

[muscleman]

Thanks for the comments guys. I should probably clarify what I meant by looks = high value. I've been in a few relationships ranging from 3 weeks to 1.5 years and I've had 2 live-in girlfriends, so I'm somewhat familiar with a few intricacies. That said, I'm not looking to marry anyone anytime soon. I definitely want to be careful though (wrap it up, screen better to make sure she's not shady even if really good looking, etc). At the same time, I wanna go lay some girls. It is kind of a struggle not to chase tail.

Anyway, I could use some tips on throwing my first party. Kinda weird to say this, but I've never thrown a party. Been to plenty - never had my own. I don't really know what to do to entertain. I have a decent sized condo and I plan to have maybe 10 people over, hopefully by next weekend (when my place is finally organized), but I have no idea what to do. I got a nice finished basement with a wet bar, so I was thinking of setting up my laptop there with some music and gettin our drink on. I have some "old" alcohol I never opened/drank that's taking up some room. I'll probably get some snacks. Upstairs I got a big screen and a porch big enough for maybe 5 people, so I can put in a movie and eventually hang outside with people.

Still not sure how to "properly" entertain though ... any suggestions? When I lived with my gf we had some people over a few times and all we did was sit on a couch and get wasted - I'd like to meet some new people and make this a fun place to be.

Oh, and another point: I want to let everyone know to a) take of their shoes since my place is all carpeted and professionally cleaned and b) keep the volume reasonable since this community is somewhat family oriented. Should I do this ahead of time or just let them know at the door?

 

[muscleman]

Alright, so I'm tentatively going out with a couple co-workers tonight, one is the wing I mentioned earlier, another one just a friend. I don't care too much for sarging tonight. I think we'll just hit up a couple bars we've never been to to get a feel for the possibilities, maybe talk to some girls. Anyone have any tips on "bar game"?

 

[amoka]

This journal needs to be in the DJD forum not the MM forum.

 

[Zunder]

Muscleman - all too much planning mate. I find it hard to believe you are 25 and never held a party? Wtf!? Planning parties is for old pr!cks like me.

Just go to the wholesaler, grab a few kegs, and invite random people (mainly chicks) from the supermarket, mall, church, local mental institution - whereever.

By the way - I have seen your pics.....your the asian looking guy right?
You need to work on your definiton mate, 'casue you look pudgy in your pics -you do not look like muscleman to me. Good potential - but you gotta lean out.

 

[muscleman]

amoka - I'm over 25, I'm fine here.

Zunder - I never really had the chance. I've only lived on my own twice and both of those times were with gfs. We had people over from time to time, but nothing you would call a party. And you must be confusing me with someone else. I'm not Asian and I've never shown my pics to anyone here.

So I went out with two of my buddies tonight. The first bar we were at was kinda dead, but it got better just as we left. In retrospect, we shouldn't have left, because we ended up going to the other bar where my ex was at, which is a very local place, aka everyone knows everyone. I'm kinda pissed cause I had a chance at the first bar to open a group and just didn't go for it. I guess I still feel awkward approaching out of nowhere, especially groups. How do you open a group really? It doesn't help that the guys I'm with (although good friends) aren't on the same game level.

As for inviting random people ... not sure how I'm gonna do that. Supermarket - never see any hot chicks. Church - not gonna invite people from my church/they're not random. I guess I'll invite some girls (that I don't know) if I meet them between now and then.

Also, one of my friends mentioned last night that perhaps bars aren't the best places to meet girls. Meeting them through friends, most likely via parties, is a lot easier (particularly because of the social proofing). Agree/disagree?

 

[Zunder]

amoka - I'm over 25, I'm fine here.

Zunder - I never really had the chance. I've only lived on my own twice and both of those times were with gfs. We had people over from time to time, but nothing you would call a party. And you must be confusing me with someone else. I'm not Asian and I've never shown my pics to anyone here.

So I went out with two of my buddies tonight. The first bar we were at was kinda dead, but it got better just as we left. In retrospect, we shouldn't have left, because we ended up going to the other bar where my ex was at, which is a very local place, aka everyone knows everyone. I'm kinda pissed cause I had a chance at the first bar to open a group and just didn't go for it. I guess I still feel awkward approaching out of nowhere, especially groups. How do you open a group really? It doesn't help that the guys I'm with (although good friends) aren't on the same game level.

As for inviting random people ... not sure how I'm gonna do that. Supermarket - never see any hot chicks. Church - not gonna invite people from my church/they're not random. I guess I'll invite some girls (that I don't know) if I meet them between now and then.

Also, one of my friends mentioned last night that perhaps bars aren't the best places to meet girls. Meeting them through friends, most likely via parties, is a lot easier (particularly because of the social proofing). Agree/disagree?

Re: Pics: Ah, OK. Got you mixed up with someone else then. Apologies for that.

I met my last gf in a bar. Usual story, she was BPD, manipulative, insecure....that doesn't mean you can't score a decent gf from a bar.
Every girl has a story for you to unravel wether you meet them in a bar, at the park, at a concert. The prim and proper librarian by day could well be the attention seeking wh0re at the bar at night.

 

[muscleman]

I think I should definitely check out some of the larger cities (anyone here from LA/Hollywood?). Just for kicks I checked the 18-25 girls in LA zip codes vs my area in the midwest and it's a night and day difference. LA = first results page I can find 3-4 girls I'd want to sleep with ... my area - sift through 5 pages before I find one that's hot and not a single mom.

Also had an interesting experience last night. Me and my buddy went to see the UFC fight at a local sports bar. We ended up getting a number for a couple girls that I'll invite to an upcoming party, but that's beside the point. A group of 4 (5?) ok-looking milfs decided to join us out of nowhere; apparently they were having a GNO. We all talked and joked a bunch and a couple were very touchy-feely, but none met my standards for looks. It was funny observing some 40yr old drunk chicks embarrassing themselves. The point I wanted to make in all this was one of them who had 3 kids but was divorced ended up leaving with a guy she met that night ... who was married. There's a bit more to it that I don't feel like typing, but it confirmed almost everything I've read the past few days regarding marriage in the US.

 

[muscleman]

This dry spell sucks. I'm having no luck on myspace or facebook. I did have a tentative date with one girl off facebook but she canceled on me at the last minute (saying she got called into work and we'll have to reschedule). She hasn't gotten back to me after I contacted her so I call BS.

Had a party at my place last night, invited a sh!t ton of people, but only 5 showed up. Even people who said they were gonna be there didn't come. Invited a couple girls me and my wing met at a bar a couple weeks back, they said they were coming, never showed up.

I feel like I'm getting the run-around. This seems way more complicated than it needs to be. Perhaps I'm not going about this the right way and should just say fvck it and focus on other things. I'm not having any luck at all and I don't understand why - maybe I'm not circulating enough socially? Any ideas/suggestions?

 

[DonJerky]

The one thing that made my social life pop was quitting alcohol. It's akin to a giant piece of flair floating above me that says, "Look at this guy, he doesn't need alcohol to talk to chicks. How come?" Every girl wants to know the how come part. It's why they keep talking to me, coming over, calling me; because I can do it on my own steam. I just turned 25 and I've spent the last 2 years of my life mastering a skill and starting a business. Like someone hinted at above, I'll be damned if I'm gonna drink away my 20's like the rest of the cattle. 27-32 is the prime of a man's life (albeit arguably) and I want to be fully ready to dominate it. I have 2 more years left and I plan on being bigger and stronger in all facets of my life, ready to dominate. You can only imagine how attractive this is to women; or maybe you cannot imagine it, having not lived it. Good god man, the women are quality too. I meet them everywhere and catch them off guard everywhere. They aren't in Lie/Defense mode like at the bar. IMO, bars are for the weak (pickups that is).