Milk: good or bad

Matt Rogers

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What are everyone's views on milk? I have used it very successfully in the past for bulking, but quite a few sources have criticised it, saying it causes acne, is full of hormones and various other stuff.
 

LucidDreamer

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All depends on your fitness goals. If you're bulking up i'd say go ahead and drink plenty of it. Just look at the macronutrient breakdown. Normally has about 13 grams of lactose/sugar which spikes your blood sugar and if it's not whole then it'll have about 3 grams of saturated fat.
 

dockta

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I "used" to drink a ****e load of it.... until i read an article... about how "BAD" it is for you. it is to do with the whole "homogenising" process. Its pretty bad stuff.. i will try and find the article and scan it with a link.

One of the biggest myths.. is regarding the "calcium" in milk. I cant exlain it properly without reading the article again... but "apparently" the amount of calcium is very minute.. and the "homogenising" process... virtually exterminates the calcium that was there in the first place. this article was VERY intersting. I LOVE milk, but i would be lucky to have 1 glass a week now. only other time i have it, is a splash if i have a coffee. which is rare anyways.
 

Soma

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Common sense should tell you how horrible it is for you. Think about it. You're ingesting fvcking COW lactose. You wouldn't dream of taking a sip of your OWN MOTHER'S milk but you'd down a glass-full of COW milk and think nothing of it.

Think about that again. You're drinking COW MILK. A liquid produced by a female cow for the sole purpose of a baby cow to grow into a big strong cow. Filled with cow-nutrients, cow-hormones, cow-vitamins, and other cow-goodness. For the third time, think about that. Thats aside from whatever is put into the milk by man.

If you really want milk go for Soy Milk.
 

dockta

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Oh and another thing just to add at the back of Soma`s post...

Like he siad the whole "cow" thing is Spot On!!

Yes the cow drinks it.. but.. only as a "calf".. once the calf has grown up into a cow... does he/she ever drink milk again in its life?

As humans... we.. as "babies".. drink our mothers milk.... which is produced by the body....but then as the baby starts to grow.. the mother stops producing milk.. thus.. meaning.. we dont need it anymore... if you needed it.. would the mother keep producin it?

Just somethin to think about.
 

m4a1

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Think about that again. You're drinking COW MILK. A liquid produced by a female cow for the sole purpose of a baby cow to grow into a big strong cow.
Sometimes, they grow into a big strong bull.
 

LucidDreamer

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Dockta - i'm not really sure where you're going with your reasoning. I'd say if you can't reference solid results from a clinical trial indicating that milk is harming the people who drink it then there's no reason to bash milk as such. Unlsess you are lactose intolerant then i'd say go ahead and drink it without worrying about baby cows.
 

Heizen

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The only reason I could think not to drink milk is if you are trying to cut, or simply keep a low fat diet. I drink at least 3 8 oz. glasses of it a day, because I mix it with my whey protein and meal replacment powder.
 

strong like bull

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"Dockta - i'm not really sure where you're going with your reasoning. I'd say if you can't reference solid results from a clinical trial indicating that milk is harming the people who drink it then there's no reason to bash milk as such. Unlsess you are lactose intolerant then i'd say go ahead and drink it without worrying about baby cows."


agreed.

we eat the entire cow as it is, why not harvest its milk? is there any SCIENTIFIC PROOF which states it is worse for you?
 

dockta

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Ahh.. yeah.. there is SCIENTIFIC PROOF.. that says its bad for you.. why do you think i made the post... i suggest you read all posts before commenting..... and i am not "bashing" milk. obviously some people here are very senative when it comes to milk.. hahha, which i find quite amusing.... like i said.. i still drink milk.. but i have cut back. drink all you like.. hell.. go DROWN yourself in it all i care.

Didnt know milk was such a sensative topic
 

dockta

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HERE IS SOME INFO FOR ALL YOU "SENSITIVE" ONES...

The Great American Milk Myth:
by Charles R. Attwood, M.D., F.A.A.P.

Here are some "extracts"

Parents who want to reduce saturated fat and animal proteins in the family diet have understandable concerns. They've read that both may increase the risk of heart disease and certain cancers but worry about calcium deficiencies if milk is discontinued. I often find it necessary to reassure them that some bowing of their child's legs may be normal up to the age of three, and is not due to a calcium deficiency. Dental decay, during infancy and early childhood, causes the same concern. But ironically, tooth decay can be caused by too frequent bathing of the teeth with milk.

Why is there so much fear about not drinking milk? The milk myth has been created and perpetuated by the dairy industry's intense lobbying throughout the lifetimes of most adults. The fact is, during most of our kindergarten and grade school years, nutrition teaching aids were supplied by the National Dairy Council. As a result, Billy and everyone around him, from his parents and teachers, to his doctors, lawyers and Congressional representatives, grew up thinking that milk is wholesome and necessary for strong bones and teeth. Never mind that milk wasn't consumed before the agricultural revolution 10,000 years ago, and still isn't by 75% of the world population.

Further confusing the consumer are milk and infant formulas claiming to be fortified with vitamin D, which is necessary for proper calcium absorption. Though vitamin D can be obtained by eating sardines, herring, salmon, tuna, egg yolk, and fish oils, none of these high-fat foods is really necessary. Anyone can get adequate amounts simply by being outside in the sunlight for as little as 10 to 15 minutes three times a week. Disabled children and others who cannot get out in the sun can avoid Vitamin D deficiencies and rickets by taking vitamin D supplements rather than fortified dairy products.

The true connection between milk and strong bones and teeth isn't exactly what the dairy industry has been telling us all these years. It's calcium balance-the relationship between the intake and loss of the mineral-that determines bone density. Good bone density attained by the age of 18- 25 usually lasts a lifetime for people who consume a balanced plant-based diet and remain physically active. The problem with milk and other dairy products is that they are not only rich in calcium but they are also high in protein, which has been shown to create calcium loss through the urinary tract.

A 1994 National Institutes of Health Consensus Conference concluded that calcium balance and bone density depended on the ratio of intake to loss, not on calcium intake alone. This evidence is supported by Dr. Walter Willet of Harvard, who found no relationship between calcium intake and hip fractures. Moreover, Professor T. Colin Campbell, editor of this newsletter, referring to a study covering 16 countries, concluded that "the association between the intake of animal protein and fracture rates appears to be as strong as the association between cigarette smoking and lung cancer."

Elderly South African Bantu women don't have osteoporosis, despite having a large calcium drain from nursing an average of 10 children. Their diet contains only about 440 mg of calcium, less than half what Americans consume. It appears they are protected by their low intake of protein (50 g daily, compared with 91 g by Americans). Eskimos, on the other hand, who consume a very high protein diet (250 - 400 g) and far more calcium than Americans (2,000 mg daily), have the highest rate of osteoporosis in the world.

Now, let's take a new look at milk and dairy products as a calcium source, regardless of their protein content. When calcium is expressed as milligrams per 100 calories instead of milligrams per serving, milk and cheese sink to the bottom of the list and green vegetables rise to the top.

At first glance, you might be tempted to conclude that you would have to eat huge servings of spinach or turnip greens to get adequate calcium. Not so. If you eat a plant-based diet, generally speaking you'll get as many total calories as if you ate meat and dairy products. In other words, calorie for calorie, vegetables are better sources of calcium than milk and cheese. It's the whole meal that counts. Also, consider that a cup of cooked spinach contains about the same amount of calcium as a cup of milk. Even though we've been told that many green vegetables contain oxalic acid, which reduces calcium absorption, this too, has been exaggerated by the dairy lobby. A 1990 report in the American Journal of Clinical Nutrition concluded that greens such as broccoli have high levels of calcium and that calcium in kale is absorbed at least as well as that in milk.

Now it begins to make sense. In cultures like Billy's, where the most protein is consumed, the calcium requirement for good bone density and protection against osteoporosis may be unattainably high, without supplements.
It's a Catch- 22 situation. But for the majority of the world population, and among those consuming a plant-based diet in Western countries, calcium requirements for normal bone density are easily obtained without milk or other dairy products. Milk, it now seems clear, is not the solution to poor bone density. To the contrary, it's part of the problem.

MORE EXTRACTS FROM OTHER SOURCES...

Got milk? If not, then thank your lucky stars. Because if you do, medical research shows that you are likely to be plagued by anemia, migraine, bloating, gas, indigestion, asthma, prostate cancer, and a host of potentially fatal allergies -- especially if you are a person of color.

But milk is also a racial issue. Almost 90 percent of African Americans and most Latinos, Asians, and Southern Europeans lack the genes necessary to digest lactose, the primary sugar in milk. The milk industry's response is classic: they have launched new campaigns arguing that non-whites can digest milk if they take in small sips during the day. There is a burgeoning industry worth $450 million a year churning out products designed to minimize lactose intolerance.

Lactose intolerance is the most common "food allergy," but to call it an allergy is to take a white-centric view that trivializes the fact that most of the world's people are not biologically designed to digest milk.

Milk does no body good, but for the vast majority of the world's people -- people of color -- it is a public health disaster. ..........

In one study, funded by the National Dairy Council, a group of postmenopausal women were given three 8-ounce glasses of skim milk every day for two years, and their bones were compared to those of a control group of women not given the milk. The dairy group consumed 1,400 mg of calcium per day and lost bone at twice the rate of the control group. According to the researchers, "this may have been due to the average 30 percent increase in protein intake during milk supplementation. ... The adverse effect of increases in protein intake on calcium balance has been reported from several laboratories, including our own" (they then cite 10 other studies). Says McDougall, "Needless to say, this finding did not reach the six o'clock news." This is one study that the dairy industry won't be repeating any time soon

"Milk, it now seems clear, is not the solution to poor bone density. To the contrary, it's part of the problem."
Dr. Charles Attwood

"It is hard to turn on the television without hearing commercials suggesting that milk promotes strong bones. The commercials do not point out that only 30 percent of milk's calcium is absorbed by the body or that osteoporosis is common among milk drinkers. Nor do they help you correct the real causes of bone loss."
Dr. Neal Barnard

Conclusion

Drinking milk builds dairy producers' profits, but it is not likely to build your bones and may even harm them. Dairy foods are linked to all sorts of other problems, too, including obesity, heart disease, and cancer, and are likely to be contaminated with antibiotics, hormones, and other chemicals, including dioxin, one of the most toxic substances in the world. (On April 12, 2001, The Washington Post reported that "the latest EPA study concludes that people who consume even small amounts of dioxin in fatty foods and dairy products face a cancer risk of one in 100." These consumers may develop other problems, too, including learning disabilities and susceptibility to infections.)

Of course, calcium is an essential mineral. According to Dr. Neal Barnard, president of the Physicians Committee for Responsible Medicine, "Milk, in particular, is poor insurance against bone breaks ... the healthiest calcium sources are green leafy vegetables and legumes. ... You don't need to eat huge servings of vegetables or beans to get enough calcium, but do include both in your regular menu planning." To learn more or for a free vegetarian starter kit—which includes information on nondairy sources of calcium



There is plenty more info out there too.. pretty scary
 

LucidDreamer

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Originally posted by dockta
Ahh.. yeah.. there is SCIENTIFIC PROOF.. that says its bad for you.. why do you think i made the post... i suggest you read all posts before commenting..... and i am not "bashing" milk. obviously some people here are very senative when it comes to milk.. hahha, which i find quite amusing.... like i said.. i still drink milk.. but i have cut back. drink all you like.. hell.. go DROWN yourself in it all i care.

Didnt know milk was such a sensative topic
I'm glad you posted a reply on the racial aspects of digesting milk -- which is still irrelevant to this thread. Milk is bad for people who can't digest it - we don't need a long article to prove that. But what were you talking about earlier ... comparing calfs to human babies ... i have no idea how you could make a convoluted argument like that. it still stands that milk is not killing or even harming people who can digest it.
 

dockta

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Originally posted by LucidDreamer
I'm glad you posted a reply on the racial aspects of digesting milk -- which is still irrelevant to this thread. Milk is bad for people who can't digest it - we don't need a long article to prove that. But what were you talking about earlier ... comparing calfs to human babies ... i have no idea how you could make a convoluted argument like that. it still stands that milk is not killing or even harming people who can digest it.
If you read the thread thouroughly and did a bit of research yourslef, you would find that t does not relate to lactose intolerant people. just touching on that.. how can so many people be lactose intolerant... if so many people cannot digest this substance.. isnt that telling us that it cant be that good for us..... and i dont see what is so hard to comprehend in the following....

Cows produce milk for their offspring
offspring develops...
Cow no longer drinks milk

Mothers produce milk for their offsprings
offspring develops...
Offspring no longer drinks milk (from mother)

Its an example... that all offspring (animals) drink milk, but as they grow.. they do not need milk to survive or to maintain health.

So... why do we continue to need it?

Lucid.. please remove your head from your own A$$ and read everything infront of you....

My reply was to the original post.. which was..

Matt Rogers - What are everyone's views on milk? I have used it very successfully in the past for bulking, but quite a few sources have criticised it, saying it causes acne, is full of hormones and various other stuff

I never said it was not good for bulking, i was merely confirming what he has heard from various sources.

Draw your own conclusions
 

NRM

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WELL... he did have some point to his argument about babies and calves. And it's that in nature a mother animal will stop producing milk for it's young at a certain time and after that, the animal no longer ever has any exposure to milk. And they go on that way. It's the same for all earlier forms of life and animals now, besides the ones that are fed milk by us like kittens.

I never really thought about it before this, but it DOES make sense. Of course, I'm no MD, but I looked it up and there are actually plenty of researches that have proven that milk is not as cocked up as people make it to be. Not only that, but it has had a detrimental effect on humans drinking it. Of course, people have been drinking it for years and it won't kill you at all from just milk, but it's the same for soda and other sugary foods that pass through your blood and corode your teeth.

I think I'll be drinking soy milk with my protein shakes now. It's all personal choice and what you research. But this information actually sounds sound to me.
 

dockta

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NRM - Cheers Bud.

Glad somebody found the information slightly useful.
 

Soma

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Not sure where you get your Soymilk but the kind I buy tastes very similar to regular milk, just a bit sweeter. It tastes damn delicious.
 

Shiftkey

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Depends on the person. It makes me break out if I drink too much, and some people are lactose intolerant. Some people rave about it though.
 
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