Massive Change

[zekko]

I can't help but be a little envious when I read posts on here by guys who talk about making one little change and then getting massively different reactions from women. Like here's a quote from a recent thread:

"After that I said f*ck it and really only cared about myself. After I did this girls started to flock with me".

Nothing I've done in my life has ever had any such single large impact with regard to women. Instead, it's been a long gradual series of incremental changes. I feel things are better than ever now, but like I said it's been a long gradual change. Every little thing I've done to self improve has helped - a little bit. Just like one more piece of a puzzle that's slowly come together.

These guys who experience startlingly different results from just making one change: Sure, they may be exaggerating a bit. Or maybe they were really just lacking that one thing - maybe it was just that one thing tripping them up. But it must be nice to get such results so easily - by just changing one thing.

 

[SecondHalf]

Once I noticed "one" single item radically changed the way women reacted to me. I gained 40 lbs of muscle (at the age of 35).
The women all turned into s1uts. It was amazing / disgusting.
I'm a little old to take the time to regain 40 lbs of muscle, but I'm going to put 20 back on (currently 6'1" - 180lbs).

SH

 

[zekko]

Once I noticed "one" single item radically changed the way women reacted to me. I gained 40 lbs of muscle (at the age of 35).

I put on a good deal of muscle in my mid 20s (I don't remember the exact numbers), but as I've said elsewhere I never really noticed any change in the way women treated me. It's possible this was because I was extremely fit and athletic before I started bulking up. So I was in great shape to begin with, just in a different way - in more of a cardio/stamina/hunter/gatherer type of way.

Also, this was in the early 80s. It's possible the musclehead/douchebag type of body wasn't as much in style back at that time as it is now. I don't remember it being that way anyway.

Also, bulking up changes your looks. You can start out as a slim pretty boy type, then when you start lifting you develop a thicker neck and such. There was a poster here recently who talked about his face being better looking before he started lifting.

SecondHalf, if I were you and had gotten that radical a reaction just from bulking up, I never would have let that muscle come off.

 

[SecondHalf]

Ha agree, however an injury and a kid kind of put the lid on that for a while.
Then just never really got back to it.

Been off and on since last summer.

SH

 

[Atom Smasher]

I think that when you're in your twenties, your identity hasn't been fully established yet and it is therefore easier to make a single sweeping change in philosophy, or perhaps more accurately, to fully commit to a test drive of said philosophy. You are incomplete as a man and still searching for who you are.

For us older guys, we have made thousands of tiny decisions about who we are and therefore we are so deeply rooted that adapting a sweeping life philosophy is nigh unto impossible. Therefore we must incrementally walk down to the basement and pull out and replace foundational bricks one at a time. It's doable but for every change we make, something else has to be pushed out of the way. For the younger guys there is empty space there.

That's at least how I envision it.

 

[ThreeStorms]

I think the "fvck it" attitude isn't very easy to change into. Definitely not for me and probably not for you. Most of us want to be liked and respected. When I've lived for my self and my own self-amusement I wasn't liked or respected. That bothered me and I think it would bother most people. You have to be either really strong or really sociopathic to be able to pull that off.

We aren't born equal bro. I was born ugly (lifelong acne problem, wandering blind eye, pot belly even when I was skinny) and socially awkward. A LOT of hard work has gotten me to about a 5 and socially "ok." It wasn't until I realized I need to work harder than most men that I really became happy and started making real progress. It's wasted time worrying about fairness and what you can't control.

Besides...I think you enjoy the fruits more when you grow them yourself.

Lots of truth in that one. It may be the constant will to fight for a better self combined with an attitude that gravitates towards the positive more than the negative that defines a truly successful and happy person.
We are a social animal. Limit the don't give a fvcks to things you cannot change.
If you need a starting point, leading a physically more active life seems to be the turning point for a lot of people. And girls will notice it.

 

[scrouds]

Get a good tailor to fix your suits. Its money well spent.

 

[Gro0ver]

The biggest change I made was 2 years ago when i decided to take up breakdancing.

Suddenly it gave me something very challenging to focus on, kind of a "superhobby" as it takes up way more time than regular hobbies. with all the stretching, conditioning, training and research.

It gave me a sense of a having a challenge that is going to push me for the next 10 or so years, I mean I wanna be as good as those professionals you see on TV, or at least be able to jump in a circle with them. It also gave me a stronger sense of identity because i have skills that not many people possess, it is also something that will grab everybody's attention in the room, and i've never had that before as i'm more of an introvert. When i've been able to inspire people with movements + music its the best feeling and i know all the hard work is worth it.

One other thing i love about it is that it's completely unique to me as an individual and i can put my own mark on it.

It's helped me in a lot of ways and has probably got me more attention from girls as well, but more so because i'm driven towards it + the physical changes.

Only disadvantage is that it inevitably has led to short-term injuries which are really annoying, but I've recently upped my stretching and have incorporated pilates to hopefully minimise this.

 

[zekko]

I think that when you're in your twenties, your identity hasn't been fully established yet and it is therefore easier to make a single sweeping change in philosophy, or perhaps more accurately, to fully commit to a test drive of said philosophy. You are incomplete as a man and still searching for who you are.

For us older guys, we have made thousands of tiny decisions about who we are and therefore we are so deeply rooted that adapting a sweeping life philosophy is nigh unto impossible. Therefore we must incrementally walk down to the basement and pull out and replace foundational bricks one at a time. It's doable but for every change we make, something else has to be pushed out of the way. For the younger guys there is empty space there.

Well, I agree, but I was talking about in my twenties also. A lot of these "DJ tips" are lessons I learned when I was younger. If you pay attention to your relationships and the girls you interact with, if you listen to your failures and your successes, they will teach you these lessons.

Like with the weight lifting, I took that up nearly 30 years ago now, long before I had ever heard of SoSuave (didn't even have the internet back then). But I don't recall there being any sort of drastic change with women because of it. Maybe a few comments on my muscles, but I used to get that before too, lol. I don't think I even had muscles back then, it's just something girls say to you to butter you up.

But anyway, no one thing has ever made any sort of big difference with me at all. It was a lot of little adjustments made over time, it was a slow gradual change, where things just kept getting generally better as I got older.

 

[Atom Smasher]

It could be that as you got older you were able to unify many and various little adjustments into a general paradigm that works, which I guess is what you are really saying as I re-read your post. Maturity is a great thing, except for getting out of bed in the morning.

We're about the same age, give or take (ok, take), and I wonder where I was mentally while you were learning these lessons. I was clueless then and clueless for most of my adult life. When I was in my twenties the world was a much different place. But I was blind in terms of relationships, to be sure. Methinks my aptitude was abysmally low at the time.

Your experience with working out is interesting. I guess I notice the difference because I routinely go up and down throughout the year. When I work out there is a drastic difference in attention. By "attention" I mean smiles and receptive "come hither" looks when I'm out and about.

I can definitely say that when I'm looking in-shape, those obvious female invitations to approach rise exponentially.

 

[Scaramouche]

Dear Second Half,
I believe completely your account as to improved status with Ladies after bulking up....But I wonder to what extent,it is a matter of confidence and your own expectations....I certainly know my own success on the Dance Floor has given me transfer values to areas where Dancing is not even dreamt of,our dear Departed Jophil often mentioned this.....All these pursuits are ephemeral,aren't they?...your muscles will start to waste after six weeks and my Dancing Skills too...Maybe hypnosis might be the go?

 

[zekko]

We're about the same age, give or take (ok, take), and I wonder where I was mentally while you were learning these lessons. I was clueless then and clueless for most of my adult life.

I don't know, I just sort of fell into a lot of it. I was very shy growing up, and I was determined to conquer it. That's where a lot of my motivation came from, and why I pushed myself out there to get better socially.

Also, I had a very nice looking girlfriend in high school I dated for three years, that probably gave me some confidence. I would be out with my friends, and I wouldn't be afraid to approach some girl if I liked her. So I would be like to my friend "You're afraid to talk to them? I'll do it then, you big pvssy". Then the girl would end up liking my friend lol, who wouldn't even say anything. Oh man, that used to p!ss me off!

I learned to spin plates from an attention wh0re I had a crush on (I didn't know she was an AW at the time). She had lots of guys who would offer to take her out on dates, and she would go out with different guys because her strict family encouraged her to. Because in their mind, that meant she wasn't getting serious with anyone, lol. So I knew if I wanted to hold her attention, I had to play the field, I had to entertain my options too. I had to be a cool guy. So that's how I started spinning plates.

And of course, once you screw up a few dates by being too AFC, I mean, that's something you never forget, that's a humiliating experience. It wasn't hard to learn not to do that!

Your experience with working out is interesting. I guess I notice the difference because I routinely go up and down throughout the year. When I work out there is a drastic difference in attention.

Yeah, that's one of those things I wonder about. It just didn't seem to make a big difference with me. And of course, for now, I've been working out for nearly 30 years, so there's no big difference for me to make now. But I don't try to get any bigger anymore, I figure I'm big enough now, I just try to maintain what I have.

Maybe it's a case of give and take. When I was young and very active outside, I used to get a really good, deep tan. But when I got into lifting, I started to get away from being outside so much. And I started to think about the yearly deep tans damaging my skin. So originally I had nice tans, and then I bulked up but lost the deep tans. So maybe it all evened out for me. I think I used to get more compliments on my tans than the muscles really. Combine the two and I bet you'd really have something.

I think guys are referring to a "wake up" moment (or "unplugging" as we call it) that results in a massive paradigm shift for them

Well, that used to confuse me, because I came here at a pretty old age. In fact, I came here because I was worried about my age (just a phase I go through every ten years when I approach another milestone). But I started studying seduction, and coming here and all, originally I was very disappointed in it. I was like "Is this all there is?". Because most of it was very old stuff to me, stuff I had heard of or learned before, and I certainly hadn't thought of women as Disney princesses for a very, very long time.

It just seemed like stuff aimed at high school students, or maybe a guy starting to go to bars and clubs for the very first time. And then they talk about having a big "awakening" or something, and I'm like what? Where's the revelation?

I got numbers easily right away, but messed up dates. Then I got first dates right but couldn't sustain it.

You're describing my life almost perfectly. Girls were usually willing to give me a chance, but early on I would mess it up. And then I couldn't sustain it. After dating my high school "sweetheart" lol for three years, I think the longest relationship after that I had was six months, before I met my wife.
For me, getting my calibration and value together was a long, slow process. Probably the most important thing I did for me, and for getting women, was getting my career together (more money). To be a successful man that can stand on his own two feet, that gives you confidence.

But I was talking about guys who change one thing, and they have a drastic change in results.

 

[SecondHalf]

Dear Second Half,
I believe completely your account as to improved status with Ladies after bulking up....But I wonder to what extent,it is a matter of confidence and your own expectations....I certainly know my own success on the Dance Floor has given me transfer values to areas where Dancing is not even dreamt of,our dear Departed Jophil often mentioned this.....All these pursuits are ephemeral,aren't they?...your muscles will start to waste after six weeks and my Dancing Skills too...Maybe hypnosis might be the go?

So true Scara. I can't imagine the "bulking up" will do much for me at this age except put me into the meatball category. Being a "Hunk" is a young man's game.

To bad we couldn't learn the Jedi Mind Trick.
"You don't find me old"
"You want to come home with me"
"..."

SH

 

[Colossus]

I didnt have any dramatic, fulminant changes, but there are two things that DID make a huge difference in my success with women, just not overnight.

Physique---it's been said before, physique (and clothing) changes can put you on a new level. And they did for me, I just didnt know how to manage that attention for a long time. You can be a saturday night stud but an LTR beta schlub.

Attitude/mindset---this is a dynamic thing that changes over time. Just like you have to be in a certain "state" to go out and approach women, you have to cultivate a more permanent enlightened mindset that will foster success in LTRs. this really just happens through experience and reflection. Some get it sooner than others, but there are no shortcuts.

 

[zekko]

Physique---it's been said before, physique (and clothing) changes can put you on a new level. And they did for me, I just didnt know how to manage that attention for a long time.

Colossus, out of curiousity, what was your physique like before you started lifting? If you went from a flabby, fat, or even saggy body to buff, I could certainly see where that would make a big difference. But in my case, I was always in good shape even before I started lifting. And I would do pushups and things like that. I just wasn't a muschlehead.

I agree you have to have experience and reflection to learn the right mindsets to have when it comes to women. And something I learned early on - a negative attitude doesn't help you at all. Even if a positive attitude isn't giving you the results you want, you will still be better off being positive. A negative attitude does nothing for you, nothing. It may be tempting at times to develop a negative attitude, but it will get you nowhere.

 

[Duet]

My most seismic change was to realise something absolutely contrary to so much of the manosphere- I started to become a nicer guy. I know this is absolutely contrary to most of the rhetoric of PUA, but for my part anyway. I was always a bit of a smart ar$e and cheeky guy with everyone - both with guys but even more so with the ladies. It was just my natural self. When I first discovered PUA I bought into all that Alpha male phenomena as I wanted to magnify my chances of getting better women.

The cruel result that I garnerned the hard way, was that I consistently came off as full of myself and arrogant to most women. I might have attracted initial interest from them but within a few minutes they had determined that I was either a player, arrogant or simply a bit of a slippery guy. Internally I found that very hard to take as I was just being my playful self.

Then over time I decided to simply be a nice guy to women, trying to be more gentle. I noticed an overwhelming increase in the amount of women interested in me when I became less ****y and more gentle. I truly blame my slavish adherence to game and PUA skills as what held me back and wished I didn't.

Now I am not suggesting that my experience is the only way, I am sure for other guys - probably even most on this site- that gaming increased their chances, but at least for me I realise it held me back and frankly when I came accross as much more "beta" I found much more success than I was expecting.

Perhaps this is a strange answer and an uncommon on this board, but my alpha male attempts truly only made me repel women that would otherwise have been interested. Guess there's different strategies for different people.

I like reading you guy's posts a lot. I find them really insightful.

Cheers

 

[SecondHalf]

Wow I want to hear more about this! Do you think its because the women were now categorizing you as just a sex object whereas before you were seen as more of a real person and not a musclehead?

I attribute it completely to I was more of a "Hunk".
I also noticed that their attraction was much more apparent when they were in front of other women (that female competition thing).
I've always had an 8 or so face, but I drove the bod up to a 9.5.

Hope that answers your question...

SH

 

[Colossus]

Colossus, out of curiousity, what was your physique like before you started lifting? If you went from a flabby, fat, or even saggy body to buff, I could certainly see where that would make a big difference. But in my case, I was always in good shape even before I started lifting. And I would do pushups and things like that. I just wasn't a musclehead.

I was really skinny. Prob 5'11'', 155 lbs. I've been as high as 250 lbs, but that was almost the same as being skinny---I got NO attention from women. It was just too much for my frame. My best weight for attracting women is about 225. I'm muscular and bigger than average, but not at the expense of having a power gut and a moonface!