Man Vs. Monkey!!

[Aboleo]

I had this horrible realization this morning when I woke up a different person then I have been for the past decade. Is it because I found God? Or cleansed my spirit? Or dealt with childhood guilt? No, it's because the drugs kicked in. Everything you thought you knew is gone overnight.

You okay there, bro... how many fingers am I holding up?:wave:

What you are talking about sounds more like some kind of existential identity crisis... you know, "how can I exist as an individual in reality if everything in reality is exactly the same?" kind of question (that, or you're really ****ing stoned). We could address that, but it doesn't necessarily rule out the possibility of a spirit or soul... I happen to believe that such a thing is fluid and ever changing, so maybe when I used the word 'soul' I confused you a little. To my knowledge, no one has disproved the existence of the soul. Hell, the soul was never really 'proven' to exist to start with. Atleast, not that I know of. As for pharmaceutical companies... well, they have yet to even cure the common cold, so anything they have to say about spirituality I'm just gonna' have to take with a grain of salt for now.

Damn, I hope I don't sound like James Brown talkin' all this 'soul' business...

I believe that if I died tomorrow, some energetic essence of myself would survive physical death. wolf116 and I have a pretty good discussion going about this on another thread that is titled, "something I read online that I wish I hadn't" (or something like that). It is pretty interesting, so check it out.

Oh, one more thing... since your not 'you' anymore, does that mean that you're not going to be writing as "6-heads lewis" anymore? If not, please tell me now so I don't get confused later when you start posting as "Galaxia2001" or something... :crackup:

 

[wolf116]

You have good points in your post, but regarding this specifically, there is no soul, pharmaceuticals have proved that. There is no real You. Your family is only your family as they are born, give them the correct drugs and they will become different people within days. There really is no individuality or inner spirit, our personality is dependent on environment and neurology or biology or whatever.

I had this horrible realization this morning when I woke up a different person then I have been for the past decade. Is it because I found God? Or cleansed my spirit? Or dealt with childhood guilt? No, it's because the drugs kicked in. Everything you thought you knew is gone overnight.

Great point lewis. Some people choose to be blind to this fact to protect a fairy tail that makes them happy.

Answer this: What happens to ones soul after they receive a lobotomy?

 

[SinJester]

6-heads lewis and wolf116 are just pessimists who wants to share their misery with everyone else. See here: http://www.sosuave.net/forum/showthread.php?t=138057

The theory of evolution is changing all the time, things that were fairy tale ideas are facts today, and things that are facts today are going to be stupid concepts tomorrow... The earth is flat, remember!

Exactly. That's the beaty of science. If new evidence is found then thoerys are adjusted accordingly.

Science: Come up with theory -> find evidence -> test theory -> come up with further information through study -> change theory taking into account new evidence -> repeat

Religion: Believe in something -> the end

There really is no individuality or inner spirit, our personality is dependent on environment and neurology or biology or whatever.

Our personality is dependant on our enviroment and biology, seems pretty straightforward to me. However can anyone ever have the exact same biology and memories as us? I don't think so. We are individuals. Does this mean that there in no such thing as a spirit? Perhaps, but it doesn't disprove it either.

As I always refer to, it is almost a statistical certanty that we are all a computer simulation

 

[wolf116]

I am no pessimist, I'm a realist.
And I'm quite happy at that, yes I have social anxiety problems but that does not make me miserable at all!
I was just relating with 6-heads lewis at a rough time and not spreading misery.

Just because the thought of being soulless makes you uneasy dose not mean it upsets me.

 

[wolf116]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pAXeVFeHwEA&feature=related
A very interesting series on sexual evolution.

Watch all 6 and then tell me evolution is bogus.

 

[6-heads lewis]

What you are talking about sounds more like some kind of existential identity crisis... you know, "how can I exist as an individual in reality if everything in reality is exactly the same?" kind of question

lol actually it’s not like that at all.

As for the rest, my reply is “I don’t know”. It’s possible that there is a soul, but the soul is unquestionably less influential in controlling thoughts and emotions than your mind is, which can be altered by drugs and surgery. Serial killers can have no conscience whatsoever, while ordinary people feel plagued by suicidal guilt for minor or non-existent infractions. Maybe souls play a part in this, but I doubt it. I’ll check out that thread you mentioned.

I haven’t smoked pot in years. Galaxia2001 sounds tempting. I’ve been researching condos on the Moon to start my new life.

Hell, the soul was never really 'proven' to exist to start with. Atleast, not that I know of. As for pharmaceutical companies... well, they have yet to even cure the common cold, so anything they have to say about spirituality I'm just gonna' have to take with a grain of salt for now.

? I don’t see the connection.

Answer this: What happens to ones soul after they receive a lobotomy?

I love that example, I’ve used it in a few discussions before. Never heard a good rebuttal. I said it to SinJester before with no reply of course.

-------

SinJester, how can someone be a pessimist for stating a fairly obvious fact? Am I also a pessimist because I don’t believe in leprechauns? Please stop commenting on my mental state or personality. Unless you know something about high-functioning autism you don’t know anything about me.

The way to get popular on SoSuave is to post a bunch of vaguely optimistic, unscientific theories that can’t be tested. On my last thread someone posted a cut-and-paste answer from a self-help book, which sounds wonderful but is extreme and a major lifestyle change, so 99% will never try it. Unfortunately for the poster, I was the 1% who did, and could honestly reflect on the results. Of course, I get no reply.

Confidence is the perfect example since it’s an immeasurable miracle solution. Anytime someone fails, it’s because they weren’t “confident” enough. You can never disprove that statement.

SinJester, please stop offering me your unsolicited crackpot advice or claiming to know where Im coming from. I will read any rebuttals you make on this thread but then add you to my ignore list.

 

[joekerr31]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CsidDezFKAQ

hahahaha! so does this mean we should start f*cking monkeys if we want to have smarter kids?

 

[joekerr31]

whether evolution is the reason we exist or not, one thing is clear, there is order in the universe. this order suggests an intelligent design.

i mean, when you think of the fact that we exist its mind boggling.

- the earth rotates consistantly creating a 24 hour time cycle that has been the same for billions of years.

- the body is made up of billions of cells, hundreds of 'parts', and all of it works (usually) perfectly.

- we have a very thin atmospheric layer that protects us from cosmic rays and that protects our planet from outer space.

i mean, its utterly mind boggling that all of this has come together in one place and allowed for life on earth.

in a sense EARTH is truly a garden of eden. i mean, this one spot flourishing with life amidst and cold and lifeless universe (at least with regards to the space around us).

whether you believe in god, evolution, both, or anything else - one thing that i think is hard to deny is that all of this truly is some kind of miracle. even by scientific standards, the fact that all this is going on is mind boggling.

 

[joekerr31]

Great point lewis. Some people choose to be blind to this fact to protect a fairy tail that makes them happy.

Answer this: What happens to ones soul after they receive a lobotomy?

there is no denying that we live in a physical world. and to exist here one must have a biological body with all the right parts.

take out the brain, take out the heart, lungs, kidney, or just about any other part of the body and the body dies.

this is in no way an argument against the soul however. all you are saying is that the soul can only actualize itself in this world when it has a properly functioning body.

i mean, its kind of like driving a car. theres YOU and then there is the car. when the car works properly YOU are able to drive it around. when the car breaks down YOU can't drive it anywhere. but in both scenarios YOU still exist. what you are arguing with yoru lobotomy theory is that because the car breaks down and can't be driven, there is therefore no driver.

its a totally flawed arguement.

im not making an argument for or against the notion of a soul, simply pointing out that you won't disprove anything with the analogy you used.

 

[ketostix]

there is no denying that we live in a physical world. and to exist here one must have a biological body with all the right parts.

take out the brain, take out the heart, lungs, kidney, or just about any other part of the body and the body dies.

this is in no way an argument against the soul however. all you are saying is that the soul can only actualize itself in this world when it has a properly functioning body.

i mean, its kind of like driving a car. theres YOU and then there is the car. when the car works properly YOU are able to drive it around. when the car breaks down YOU can't drive it anywhere. but in both scenarios YOU still exist. what you are arguing with yoru lobotomy theory is that because the car breaks down and can't be driven, there is therefore no driver.

its a totally flawed arguement.

im not making an argument for or against the notion of a soul, simply pointing out that you won't disprove anything with the analogy you used.

Totally agree Joekerr. The soul would need a body to interact with the physical world since it's not a physical entity.

 

[6-heads lewis]

there is no denying that we live in a physical world. and to exist here one must have a biological body with all the right parts.

take out the brain, take out the heart, lungs, kidney, or just about any other part of the body and the body dies.

this is in no way an argument against the soul however. all you are saying is that the soul can only actualize itself in this world when it has a properly functioning body.

i mean, its kind of like driving a car. theres YOU and then there is the car. when the car works properly YOU are able to drive it around. when the car breaks down YOU can't drive it anywhere. but in both scenarios YOU still exist. what you are arguing with yoru lobotomy theory is that because the car breaks down and can't be driven, there is therefore no driver.

its a totally flawed arguement.

im not making an argument for or against the notion of a soul, simply pointing out that you won't disprove anything with the analogy you used.

You haven't really proven anything either. You could easily say the brain is the driver, the body is the car. Take away the driver and the car doesn't move.

What does this prove? Nothing. Maybe the brain isn't the driver, maybe the brain is the car and it's being driven by a soul. It's possible, but unlikely. Had we never been told of "souls" by society, I doubt anybody would ever even consider it a possibility.

The thing about God and spirits is that for so long it was considered the truth by default. And now science has to disprove something that no evidence backs up, only because it has been around so long. In reality, the default truth is "who the hell knows?", and so far science has provided the most plausible explanation.

 

[joekerr31]

You haven't really proven anything either. You could easily say the brain is the driver, the body is the car. Take away the driver and the car doesn't move.

What does this prove? Nothing. Maybe the brain isn't the driver, maybe the brain is the car and it's being driven by a soul. It's possible, but unlikely. Had we never been told of "souls" by society, I doubt anybody would ever even consider it a possibility.

The thing about God and spirits is that for so long it was considered the truth by default. And now science has to disprove something that no evidence backs up, only because it has been around so long. In reality, the default truth is "who the hell knows?", and so far science has provided the most plausible explanation.

haha. your second paragraph makes no sense. obviously there was a point where no one had been told about 'souls' and then someone considered the possiblity and told other people about souls. :crackup:

as for my statement, i agree, it doesn't prove a soul. i wasn't trying to. i was merely saying you can't use 'lobotomies' to say there is no soul.

i agree with 'who the hell knows?' - but you say science has provided the most plausible explanation and i disagree with that. science has a lot of gaps in it and hasn't even scratched the surface of understanding what is really going on in the universe. which is why there are tons of scientists that believe in a higher power - because science simply doesn't answer the big philosophic questions nor does it explain why life exists - it merely answers how life exists (how atoms work, how biology works, etc.) - but it can't tell you why atoms were created, or why the universe is the way it is - it can only describe the processes, not why those processes exist in the first place.

 

[Obsidian]

If you really believe in a god who is infinite and immortal and all knowing, why would it be such a big deal for him (or her, or 'it') just to sit and wait for the test results of his grand experiment called "life" even if it took a billion years (not that I believe thats what life is about, it's just an example to all of the bible thumpers out there in don juan land)?

Probably correct, and there are plenty of Christians who agree with you. But I've looked at the science of it, and I personally do not agree with evolution.

I don't think evolution has as much to do with religion as it does with modern science, philosophy, and seduction theories. That's why Lastman made this thread; he disagrees with some of the bullsh1t "science" being thrown around on this forum which equates humans with animals.

 

[Obsidian]

And joekerr has stated the Teleological Argument, which imo, is one of the best arguments for God's existence. If you really want to become more enlightened, you can read more about it here (warning: the article is long and well thought-out).

 

[Interceptor]

Wait, I thought the Anti Evolution theory WERE the "religious zealots".

I think Science has done a pretty good job of explaining the mechanics of how Humans have arrived from primal ancestors.
And I also agree that it is not Science's responsibility to bring God or a Higher Power into the equation.

I also think that religious dogma is a terrible thing.

And I also think that science can only show us so much, and has its limits.
And just because one believes in a theory (arrived from scientific analysis) does not make it immutable.
The power of the human mind is trmendous.

 

[Rollo Tomassi]

Heheh,..

Looks like the home-schoolers got an extra day off for Presidents Day weekend again,..

 

[Nighthawk]

I still truly believe that I am God and you are all just figments of my diseased imagination. Prove me wrong.

If we didn't come from apes, why did God make the species so similar?

Seriously, all around the world, from first to third world countries, evolution is just a fact but in the US it's still up for debate. Weird.

 

[(JJ)]

this is an interesting thread. and it seems to go against the norm for religion/evolution debates. (the evolutionists seem to be more vehemently arguing than the religious.) but i digress. LMS i believe god set evolution into place honestly. wasnt that the original point of this thread? to have you criticize/explain our beliefs? have at it. anyway, there's really no proof for god doing anything, you guys are right. the only proof i can offer, as a christian/someone that believes in god who isn't necessarily christian, is that the world is here. we as a population know of 218 planets in our immediate vicinity. anyone here know of life on those? me neither. SOMETHING started it all. some religions believe aliens started this world. *tom cruise* lol but then, tom, i ask, who started the aliens' world? there's nothing that DISPROVES the existence of god. as a child i was raised catholic. and i still consider myself somewhat of one. however, i don't think god really has as much control over everything as we give him credit for. i think he just set everything up to work without him. the reason for my belief is that i don't think that god would, with his power, set up any person for failure. he wouldn't throw someone into a situation destined to fail. there'd be no crime if he had all the power we say he does. anywho i dont have time to type my entire beliefs, but that's my two cents.

 

[Deep Dish]

Looks like the home-schoolers got an extra day off for Presidents Day weekend, again..

:crackup:

This thread reminds me of why I need to write an essay, separate and apart from this forum, called "The case against evolution denial." Some people will wonder why not have the simpler title of "The case for evolution", but the burden of proof for evolution was satisfied one hundred year ago and is reaffirmed every week in science news.

 

[Last Man Standing]

Where is your rationale for the basis of evolution?