Let's talk about EGO

[squirrels]

How often do you see threads like this:

"I've improved myself, but women still don't want me."

"I feel like the 'prize', but women don't seem to recognize it."

"I'm ****y, I'm no longer a pushover, but it's NOT WORKING!"

"HELP!"

There's an old movie/book/whatever that used to be cited a lot on this website called "The Tao of Steve". It was based around three tenets:

1) Eliminate desire
2) Be excellent in a woman's presence
3) Leave (which in a broader sense, refers to challenging a woman to pursue or show affection to YOU)

What's wrong with the people in the above quotes is that they've gone ahead and become more excellent as people (2) and challenged the women via "****y-funny" or whatever (3), but they MISSED #1: Eliminate Desire.

Why is desire so bad? Aren't we men SUPPOSED to desire women?

Funny enough, the answer is NO. The "desire" I'm talking about is a cognitive thing, driven by EGO. When you DESIRE a woman in this way, you're trying to gratify yourself. You're more concerned about her being YOURS than enjoying her. You become more focused on HAVING her than actually enjoying her. It becomes a matter of pride. This kind of mentality leads to:

-Insecurity: When you have an ego-driven desire for a woman, your ego becomes dependent on obtaining or "winning" her, so you start to feel less self-worth until you DO "get" her.

-Fear: When your ego is dependent on obtaining a woman, you fear to actually act on that desire because having it turn out that she DOESN'T like you is a worse blow to your ego than not knowing whether she likes you or not. So you refuse to jeopardize your self-esteem

-Anger: When you desire a woman with ego, one of the key qualifications of you really LIKING this woman is possession. You find yourself unable to appreciate, or even getting ANGRY at women because they don't belong to you. You start to blame THEM for damaging your pride and self-esteem

-Possessiveness: This one should be obvious...once you have a woman, you start to protect her because she becomes part of your ego. Her presence in your life is key to your self-esteem and you do all you can to make sure she doesn't leave and damage your ego.

-Depression/Feelings of Worthlessness: After some time of desiring women for gratifying your own ego and not receiving that gratification, you may even start to feel bad about YOURSELF. You start to feel your self-esteem eroded, your ego bruised and battered, and you start to hate YOURSELF and feel "worthless" because you couldn't obtain the kind of gratification your ego desired.

I've seen myself and other "Top DJs" fall into a plight of frustration and depression over women because they are so bent on BEING "Top DJs", so hung up on their ego-driven DESIRE for women, that they become desperate, unattractive, and afraid. Their egos take such a beating that they can no longer function with women. And that kind of depression spills out into other things in life as well.

Eliminating Desire

Ask yourself, why do you seek the cup of Christ? Is it for His glory...or for yours?

The above quote is from Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade. If you've read The DaVinci Code, you may understand what that has to do with women. The point I'm trying to make is this: Only by eliminating your ego-desire for women can you begin to truly appreciate them.

Ask yourself this...if tomorrow morning you woke up the same as you were tonight, except for some reason, women were NOT attracted to you AT ALL...not repulsed, not frightened, just not attracted, and you had to go through the rest of your life without having a girlfriend, without dating, without sexual gratification beyond your left hand, etc...would you be HAPPY with yourself?

Try it. Take a couple weeks off. STOP thinking about women. Occupy your mind with other things. When you start becoming concerned with girlfriends and SoSuave and your desires start to well up, find something else to distract you. No women, no PORN, no whacking, no NOTHING. See if you can be happy without women.

If you find yourself saying, "OK now I'm happy without women, but it STILL isn't getting me any women," then STOP. You are STILL not happy without women if you are saying this. You can't just pretend to eliminate desire in the hopes of fulfilling it. You have to PURGE it from your system.

Listen to me. You have to consider the possibility that Girls don't like you. They never wanted you. In all probability, they hate you. This is not the worst thing that can happen. We don't NEED them. -Fight Club, sort of

You have to STOP pursuing women to gratify your ego. And if you don't know any other way to pursue women, then STOP pursuing them ENTIRELY.

Only once you have done this can you take a step back, as a complete human being, and gain an appreciation for what women have to offer us as men. Sexually, socially, spiritually.

Once you eliminate this desire to gratify your own ego, you will begin to become LEGITIMATELY attracted to women. You will see the value in them and will be drawn to them because of their feminine qualities. This is natural ATTRACTION, not a desire to gratify your own ego and bolster your self-esteem. It works on a level below your complex ego and self-esteem, at a much more primal level.

Women can tell when a man is approaching them because of genuine ATTRACTION, or because of a desire to gratify his ego. Women WANT to be appreciated for what they are, not desired as a way for you to get your rocks off and be happy. When they see you appreciating them as WOMEN, as ends in themselves and not means to an end, then they will become more attracted to you.

That's soooo AFC!! Pook says "Be the prize"!! You're saying that the GIRL is the prize! I'm better than that...they should be attracted to ME!

No, that's your ego acting out again. Too many people read "be the prize" and "stop being a nice guy" and think it means "inflate your ego and start being an arrogant ass." This is not the case.

Self-improvement is masturbation. -Fight Club

Too many people use "prize mentality" as a means of protecting their ego. When they are rejected by a woman, they say, "Oh well, she didn't recognize the PRIZE. NEXT!!" And they get rejected by the next woman, and the next, and the next...

The REASON you can afford to appreciate a woman without coming off like a "chump" is because you ELIMINATE DESIRE.

In reality, there IS NO prize. A prize would imply a sense of victory or defeat. When you eliminate that ego-desire, there is no real "victory" or "defeat" when dealing with women, only interactions that work and interactions that don't.

Many "DJs" think that either THEY are the prize or the WOMAN is the prize, that it's a "one or the other" mentality. Look at it this way...suppose you have a business idea, and you go to a large bank or corporation and ask them for funding and in return you offer part of your profits. And they recognize the value of your business idea to them and give you the funding. Does that make YOU the prize because they valued YOU and hooked you up in return for a share of what you had to offer? Hardly.

It works the same way with women. When you eliminate your desire for YOUR own good, you begin to see women for what THEY truly have to offer. You begin to enjoy them and appreciate them much as you would a work of art or a musical instrument. You like the way she feels in your arms, you like the way she smells, the goofy things she does, the way she's so different from you. This is where your MALE INSTINCTS take over. You want to explore her. Now that you APPRECIATE her like a musical instrument, you want to PLAY her like one. You want to make her toes curl up and her legs shake with orgasms like she's never seen. You want to make her feel giddy when she's near you.

These MALE INSTINCTS, this natural ATTRACTION and CREATIVITY is what becomes your "prize" to a woman. When a woman recognizes that you get natural enjoyment out of exploring her and being creative with her and making her tremble with ecstasy and excitement, how can she resist that? Much less easily than if you just want her around to make you feel like more of a man. Then SHE becomes attracted to YOU.

And because you are drawn to her by ATTRACTION and not DESIRE or EGO, if she doesn't recognize this and isn't attracted, there is NO DAMAGE to your self-esteem. There is no "pedestal." No "prize." Your ego is invincible to the wiles of women because you eliminated your desire to gratify it with female affection. You can now CHOOSE the women you want to interact with. You don't HAVE to "cold-approach" every chick just to be more of a man. You can find women that GENUINELY ATTRACT you and explore them and find ways to make them "sing". You can afford to pick up and put down different instruments until you can find one that you can REALLY make music with.

I use the music analogy because so many artists out there make music just out of ego, for self-gratification. Fame, money, chicks, etc...but the artists who are TRULY appreciated and remembered and desired are the ones who show a love and appreciation for the music. They're not SLAVES or SUPPLICANTS to the music, but they appreciate it and they want to create and project themselves onto it and make it BETTER. These are REAL musicians, the ones responsible for the evolution of music as we know it, the ones who really LOVE it. They work not for gratification of their egos, but because of a natural attraction to the sound.

BOTTOM LINE:

So when it comes to women, put away your EGO, eliminate desire for self-gratification, stop worrying about self-improvement for the sake of attracting women and become complete on your own. For REAL. WITHOUT women AT ALL. Then let your natural male instincts attract you to women, and let acting on those instincts attract women to YOU.

 

[AverageFC]

interesting post.

Funny enough, the answer is NO

How is it not within human nature to desire the opposite sex?
Is it not male instinct to desire women?

women were NOT attracted to you AT ALL...not repulsed, not frightened, just not attracted, and you had to go through the rest of your life without having a girlfriend, without dating, without sexual gratification beyond your left hand, etc...would you be HAPPY with yourself?

What if to some people their lives are like that anyway. Youre suggestion is to be happy with that, correct?

 

[The TallOne]

I find it kind of disturbing that some people think we need to turn into robots... people with no emotions and or desires in life.

 

[ScrewIt]

wait...dont tell me this post is goign to lead to talks about monks..

 

[squirrels]

Originally posted by The TallOne
I find it kind of disturbing that some people think we need to turn into robots... people with no emotions and or desires in life.

Desires, in the context of the post, doesn't mean emotions. It means desires with respect to satisfying one's own ego.

Emotions are a baser impulse. What's happening is that ego-based desires get in the WAY of your baser impulses or your pursuit of your goals.

If you want to be a stickler for Merriam-Webster definitions, you could call those impulses "desires", but I was referring to something more cognitive, dealing more directly with the ego and the sense of self.

It is NOT male nature to desire women. It is male nature to be inclined toward domination, interaction, creativity, penetration. It is for these reasons that men are ATTRACTED to women. There's nothing natural about ego. In fact, ego, cognitive sense of self, is what makes us LESS animalistic.

You can apply the same rule to anything. It applies with me to video games. If I start to desire winning in a way that it affects my ego whether I win or lose, I become frustrated and insecure and often play MUCH worse than if I push that ego-gratification desire out of the picture and just play the game. It doesn't mean I don't want to win. I NATURALLY want to win. But it lets me function better whether I'm winning OR losing.

The point is that you're NATURALLY attracted to women. Building an ego-desire just gets in the way.

 

[AverageFC]

It is male nature to be inclined toward domination, interaction, creativity, penetration.

Using that logic being gay is just as manly as being straight.

 

[So Many Ways]

Originally posted by ScrewIt
wait...dont tell me this post is goign to lead to talks about monks..

I was thinking the same thing. This post is wrong on several different levels.

First off, it in our biological nature to desire women. We should embrace it, not run away from it.

A desire for companionship is a basic human need. There is nothing wrong with that, it's normal.

Desire is driven by biological urges, the same biological urges that make us breathe and eat. It is not driven by ego. Ego is what blocks guys from getting the women they desire. A man's ego makes him afraid of approaching women, afraid of getting rejected and afraid of what their peers or strangers may think.

Your theory is backwards.

 

[squirrels]

Originally posted by So Many Ways
Desire is driven by biological urges, the same biological urges that make us breathe and eat. It is not driven by ego. Ego is what blocks guys from getting the women they desire. A man's ego makes him afraid of approaching women, afraid of getting rejected and afraid of what their peers or strangers may think.

Your theory is backwards.

That's funny...I said exactly the same thing that you did.

People seem to have a hang-up over the word "desire".

Main Entry: 1de·sire
Pronunciation: di-'zIr, dE-
Function: verb
Inflected Form(s): de·sired; de·sir·ing
Etymology: Middle English, from Old French desirer, from Latin desiderare, from de- + sider-, sidus heavenly body
transitive senses
1 : to long or hope for : exhibit or feel desire for
2 a : to express a wish for : REQUEST b archaic : to express a wish to : ASK
3 obsolete : INVITE
4 archaic : to feel the loss of

To long for, hope for, or wish for something implies a cognitive sense, not an emotional or physiological one.

I didn't think it was that unclear. I just couldn't find a different word that worked. To me, "desire" does not denote a physical or emotional sense.

Anyway, since you're more concerned with tearing apart my diction than trying to understand the meaning of the post, I tweaked it as much as I coudl fit in under the 10,000 character limit to try to clarify this point.

Really makes no difference to me. If you want to debate whether it's a "valid thesis", you can do so until you're blue in the face. Or you can take the idea for what it's worth. It's something I just figured out for myself and I thought it'd help other people to hear it. If they would rather take chunks of it out of context and debate the semantics of how it fits in with the "Don Juan Gospel," then be my guest.

I still find it hard to believe that some people think that DESIRE for WOMEN is a natural thing. As if somewhere in you there's a gene that dictates to you that you should seek out "vag!na" and stick your "pen!s" in there. It's a combination of natural biological urges and drives and emotions that we're born with naturally. It is those drives and urges that attract us to women. DESIRE for women is something rational and cognitive we make up after the fact to understand it in our "logical" world, since reason never HAS been able to and STILL can't describe emotions. "Why are we drawn toward women?" Because we DESIRE them. It's circular thinking at its finest, but we accept it because we don't HAVE a real answer.

 

[squirrels]

Originally posted by AverageFC
Using that logic being gay is just as manly as being straight.

No...what's natural for someone who is dominant and penetrative is to be attracted to someone who is recessive and receptive. i.e. females.

 

[sexual_intellectual]

This post contains much truth, and I applaud you squirrels for posting it.

 

[A-Unit]

Re:

I've posted much the same, squirrels, so I *get* what you're saying.

Many guys hang their hats on a woman, period. Their sense of masculinity is defined by:

*Whether they've banged a girl.
*How many they've dated.
*How many numbers they get.
*How hot she is relative to past dates or friends gf's.
*How many dates they land a week.

It's natural to be attracted to women, they're our POLAR opposite in the sense of masculine-feminine, gentlemen. But it is not NATURAL or MANLY to need a woman like air, water, or food.

Think back to the dawn of ages, to more primal times, a man only desired of a woman because he desired to sire children. He could very EASILY live out his existence without her, as...

Water
Air
Food
Shelter

Were much higher up that list than a woman and/or procreation.

In a more formal sense, many guys today go from living @ college, to moving back home, to living with roommates, then living with a GF/Fiance/WIFE. A man develops no sense of autonomy, no sense of self, and no sense of self-reliance. There was no RITE of passage as other countries thrust upon men. Merely they blended into the fake world, or they didn't. The fact that men are still boys in their 20's is all the evidence we need of this.

Prisoners of desire is what you become when you give in too heartily to your pangings.

Yes, it's natural and good to want to be with a woman, but she enters your list of priorities along with:

Career/Job/Business
Sports
Health
Finance
Sense 0f Self
Family

That's where your EGO has said:

"Hey we want this, give it to me!"

Think about it, do you really need anything above and beyond survival? The people I have seen happiest are those who maintain small desire and continue to enjoy life through experience, not acquisition.

An article was recently written on a Multi-billionaire living in the South West. Know what he had for a house? A double-wide trailer. They'd bought 50 acres for cultivation of a home, but he reneged on the contract because he wanted to experiece life, not just build a home around it. That's something ALL people should take as example of living within one's means and not allowing the Ego to drive them made.

My cousin has a foreign exchange student for a whole. She arrived during the summer and will leave this summer. During christmas, I asked her how our christmas' compared. She (being from Germany) said there's far more presents and the family all buys for each other. YET, this girl is from a very wealthy family, one that could have afforded all the houses of my family. I saw a picture of her home, know what they had that most homes don't?

A library.

I have yet to step foot in a house that has had anything more than cookbooks and a local newspaper.

Until you *understand* the human mind, one cannot comprehend this as being possible. That we have urges, generally created by the MIND/EGO versus our Spiritual Sense of Self, the INNER US. The Being inside. That person YOU KNOW YOU ARE, which eaks to get out. The mind/ego is more specifically that part of you that seeks comfort and security. It has pangings that say:

"Its cold, go inside."
"We need a big Tv, For..."
"Buy that iced coffee..."

It's the random wants that AREN'T necessarily in accordance with your true goals. Consider the fact when you're working to losing 30 lbs, and learning to eat smaller meals, but 6 of them. You cut out sweets, booze, coffees with excessive cream/sugar, and so forth. It (the Ego) tells you you can cheat a little, because IT desires something to feel good about the moment. It constantly needs protection. It needs to always feel good. It seeks clear answers, to ALWAYS know, when in fact, the only thing we come to truly know are those facts contained in books which have little relevance in our lives.

You'll quickly see that, it IS desire versus Attraction.

"I desire you."

"I am attracted to you."

The first implies possession of, as if you must HAVE it.

And the second implies a positive/negative balance, or more specifically, the male/female counterbalance that brings the bonds together and balance an equation set forth eons ago. Men begrudge how luny women are, but isn't that rightly so, because WOMEN ARE MEANT TO BE OUR POLAR opposite. It is the opposition that generates attraction. Your interests are of second consequence. It is your deep seated passion in your own sexuality that attracts the opposite sex.

Too many guys not succeeding with women have WASHED themselves clean of everything that makes them men...



A-Unit

 

[Cheiradawg]

Great post! I feel ya bro.

 

[A-Unit]

Another Comment.

Something I want to point is the existence of the EGO. It's quite relative to a Matrix type concept, in that it predisposes us to certain actions.

Consider all the people walking around each and everyday, clouded by their mentals thoughts, assumptions, suppositions and so forth. You walk into a bank, dumbfounded from a recent breakup, and the tellers are ALL CUTE. Yet, you restrain yourself from making moves because your mind is so consumed with the loss.

Or in the case of sales, your MIND/EGO makes numerous assumptions regarding the potential sale, the outcome, and so forth.

It's as if people live their lives out in their mind, playing on the images they see day in and day out on TV. How many guys on here decry how badly they want to socialize, but fear it more than anything?

What's that the result of?

Your overactive, forward-thinking, assumptive brain. Excessive reliance on the logic portion has lead you to living life out INSIDE your head.

-You assume the response before its even questioned.
-You assume the path before its even walked.
-You fear the contact of a woman, before you even try.

In the mind a person walks up against many mental walls.

In my world, nothing really means anything. When you attach no meaning to anything except that of the context it is in, you remain MORE solid, LESS emotional to outcomes.

It was this epiphany that dawned on me the other day that so many people live out life more than they should IN THEIR head, where it's NOT FELT or EVEN REAL. For instance...

Why shouldn't you approach every girl? EVERY SINGLE ONE. Who cares about the response? That's not your concern. You're only concern is your life. If they're taken, let them tell you. If they're not, perfect. It's evident the entrepreneurial minds of Colonel Sanders, who failed nearly 1000 times at selling his recipe, don't operate like most others. They don't operate with presuppositions that attempt to DEFINE life.

Life is not defineable, so stop living as if you could, would, or have.

Just do it. That's it. No excuses. No question about previous fears. None of that.



A-Unit

 

[LouieVaton Don]

Damn. Thats good. Thx for even coming up with this thread, what the hell did this guys name have to be pook to get some damn recognition? Then A-unit drop more than a few gems.

 

[Create Reality]

I agree, squirrels. I think some dudes could benefit from this kind of thinking. Good post.

When you desire a woman in the egotistical sense it's much harder to appreciate what you have. They can attain such an integral place in your ego, you don't even notice what it is about her that you like; kind of like trying to read a book an inch from your face, or looking at your chin without a mirror. Something like that.

 

[Create Reality]

edit

 

[Virtú]

Without desire, it seems like you would also have no motivation.

I'm not confident that sexual attraction is enough by itself. Attraction is a state, a physiological condition triggered by an external stimulus, not a motive. Desire, ego gratification through sexual pleasure and conquest, is a motive, something that results in action.

Attraction without desire would result in you being attracted to a woman, sexually aroused by her, but without incentive to act on that feeling, so that nothing would come of it.

The same is true for everything else in life; without a conscious desire for something, you don't care if you have/do it or not.

I concede that a reduction of desire would be helpful for pathological one-itis (an excess of desire, of need for ego gratification)

However, for the fvck-up whose erections are his only response (physical and mental) to women, a reduction or absence of desire for women and sex doesn't seem like the direction that he should go.

 

[Spike_the_Dragon]

No way as way. No limitation as limitation.

Desire is natural, so let it happen naturally. I don't think that Squirrels is saying that we should become like robots, rather that we should become devoid of the needy attitude. But we must rid ourselves of desire by yielding to it, not by hiding from it. Be with it, keep company with it... this is the way to be rid of it.

You can't fight your desires any more than you can fight the sun from rising or setting. If you try to fight your own nature then you will be torn apart in the process. Just watch the evening news about how a celibate priest has been raping children, or a postal worker who goes "postal" and kills everyone in sight... if you bottle it up, sooner or later it will break free with horrible consequences.

Let me tell you one of my favorite stories to better illustrate this point...

Long ago an old man accidentally fell into the river rapids leading to a high and dangerous waterfall. Onlookers feared for his life as they watched in horror. Miraculously, the old man came out alive and unharmed downstream at the bottom of the falls. The people asked him how he managed to survive without so much as a scratch. The old man replied, "I accommodated myself to the water, not the water to me. Without thinking, I allowed myself to be shaped by it. Plunging into the swirl, I came out with the swirl. This is how I survived."

To know yourself, you must let go of yourself. Empty your cup so that it may be filled; become devoid to gain totality. Do not think about it--feel it. In this way your will learn to honestly express yourself as an individual. You will have true understanding of yourself, the world, and everything in it. If you know yourself, you will know others as well. By giving into yourself, your will learn to control yourself.

"Become like water... become formless. If you put water into a cup, it becomes the cup. If you put water into a tea pot, it becomes the teapot. If you put water into a bottle, it becomes the bottle. Water can flow, or it can crash... be water my friends"-- Bruce Lee

 

[dearsappho]

A-Unit speaks so much sense its kind of eerie...

 

[ImpatientFire]

This is so much B.S. How can you not desire a woman and call yourself a straight man? The key is not eliminating desire but standing up to your fears and chase after women. There's nothing wrong with chasing them, just know when a woman isn't attracted to you and move on. Do other things that build up your ego for example going to the gym, playing sports, drawing, helping people out etc. Don't tie your ego to getting women. Even at your best you can't attract every woman on earth .