Let me ask a dumb question

[wait_out]

There are so many threads about "this girl did that", "so I did this", "what's it all mean", "I hate women", endless strategizing, you get the impression dating is nothing but an interminable power struggle, looks status game HB10 blah blah blah...

Honestly it all seems kind of like a pain in the ass. I have unavoidable real-world stress in my life and don't really have the reserve right now for dysfunctional gamey women. I just want it to be fun, easy, simple. Sometimes, it is. Which is great -- you have good sex, a new penpal, happy memories to take away from it, it recharges you (both of you!). I'm sure women feel this way, they're always driving for that prize too right? Its gotta wear a woman down.

So for those of you who've had those experiences where its just good in all corners, for you and her, even (especially!) if it was a ONS -- and they can be awesome! -- what was the difference? The way you approached her? The girl? The expectations you both brought into it? She's just not used up from bad experiences and can still love guys in general? Can you head check a messed up girl and put her on the right track, have a good experience, and maybe teach her something valuable about boys and girls?

I mean I'm not talking about *LOVE* the perfect person let's get married hollywood obsession... but where is the love in general these days? Are people just having a hard time dropping the shield? Has sexuality become less something for girls to give, and more of a way for them to get? Why is everybody so crazy these days?

Lets establish this before anyone says otherwise -- good relationships between the sexes are real, not pure theory. It's just very elusive to replicate, which has me thinking.

Attractive girls are nice to look at but attractive people are good to be around, honestly game takes care of itself if you're both 2 mostly happy highly-attracted people who feel comfortable around each other and get along well. I *think* the solution is to just meet more women and cycle them faster, meaning you can't get hung up on girls disrespecting you and endless self-improvement/post-mortems... just move on faster and find who's actually built to make you happy and make your life better.

I'm throwing this one out to the wolves in the general forum, but try and keep the idiocy to a dull roar please

 

[JLW]

I think there is a stage in every relationship between a man and a woman where this is the case. There's always at least one phase where everything is going really well. This part can be as short as a few days, however.

For whatever reason, any NUMBER of tremendous variables, cause things to always go South.

I would say that the main determining factor between a good experience and a bad one is that the good experiences are usually cut short for logistical reasons before they have a chance to go bad.

An example of this would be when my friend hooked up with a girl all summer while he was in a foreign country. Eventually he had to go back to his own country, but they left on good terms before things ever got a chance to go bad.

 

[wait_out]

I had a great time last night with a european girl I met right after starting this thread. Completely unexpected and a really strange coincidence, really mutual, easy and refreshing. I was sitting across a table just chatting and suddenly realized she was beautiful (she was not done up). I made her take off her glasses and pull out her hair so I could look at her. It was like a lightbulb went off in both our heads at the same time... I really liked her, she appreciated it and so wanted to give something back. And that was the whole pickup. Everything else was just formalities until we could start kissing and act a bit more honest with each other. It was a night I'll probably always treasure. Hope I see her again.

So I feel great about everything, I'm pretty sure she did too... when it can be like that, why is dating so rough for so many people? The whole night was as natural as breathing and we were complete strangers. Logistics yes, but why are so many people making each other so miserable even in the short-term?

 

[maqnetik]

i like this post-- and youve brought up a great point:

women should be the ones reacting to you not the other way around.

men ACT women THINK and TALK, stop asking for digits and start expecting results

 

[Jitterbug]

Hardly a dumb question, mate. I'm surprised this excellent thread hasn't got more responses.

I had a great time last night with a european girl I met right after starting this thread.

There's your answer: she's European.

Women in Anglosphere countries are the most uptight when it comes to dating. In fact, that word has become a silent word. These days you have to tell the women that you're "hanging out" or "catching up" initially, because as soon as you mention the word "date", all kinds of flakey behaviours arise. Instead of dating simply meaning that you're meeting up to see how much you like each other and where to go from there, it somehow rings the alarm bell in their heads that it means something serious, some kind of "strings attached".

The women are constantly on the defensive and wield sex as a weapon against men. That's how they're programmed. That's how our society operates. They're always on guard against being taken advantage of, and calculating what they can get out of the deal to the point that they're stressed out all the time and just can't have simple fun.

Men here are programmed in a similarly destructive manner. We are programmed to feel guilty, in a "sh!t I've done something illegal" sense, if we make moves that the woman does not appreciate, instead of just simple human awkwardness. Outside of the smooth DJs and the sociopaths who simply don't give a damn about anything, the majority of men are rather timid around women for this reason and would suffer their bad behaviours silently & in fear.

To sum it up, both sexes are programmed to fear each other in the Anglosphere.

I've dated some European girls and had a few as housemates & hung out with them. It always amazes me that they have none of this fear of men that (in my case) Australian girls have, but at the same time, they are fully aware of how to take care of their own safety, so they aren't naive. For example, to watch them interact with drunk (the happy kind) guys casually & with grace is eye opening. My dear local Aussie girls would treat the same guys like lepers, to be avoided at all costs. Hell not even drunk guys, just take random guys walking down the street making eye contact, a smile and saying hi. It's a world of difference in the responses from European girls (and Latinas from South America, and even Asian-born girls) and the local ones. And very few of those guys were hitting on them, they were just happy to be acknowledged. The ones that did hit on them were handled with grace and happily withdrew.

I have no real answer to this, wait_out. I'm building up my career so I can spend more time in other countries where the relation between the sexes is saner.

 

[loveshogun]

So for those of you who've had those experiences where its just good in all corners, for you and her, even (especially!) if it was a ONS -- and they can be awesome! -- what was the difference? The way you approached her? The girl? The expectations you both brought into it? She's just not used up from bad experiences and can still love guys in general? Can you head check a messed up girl and put her on the right track, have a good experience, and maybe teach her something valuable about boys and girls?

This is my personal method, and I find it works better than looking for the silver lining in people.

Even though this may sound negative, the focus is not to BE negative. Just to be wary of negativity coming from the other person:

1) Is this girl good looking enough for me to actually desire her, versus my knee-jerk "f*ck everything that moves" reaction (this has always been my bane)
2) Is she rude?
3) Does she talk about people behind their backs?
4) Is she needy?
5) Is she unemployed?
6) Does she have baggage?
...
The list goes on. And I just don't call back the ones who don't pass.

The sad fact that you've stumbled upon is that literally 90 percent of the female (and male) population is unsuitable for LTR.

At best 25 percent of the female (and male) population would be a good ONS/STR. That's because with a ONS/STR, you never learn whatever it is about the other person that would turn you off enough to leave.

When you consider that all the scrub women (and men) are still trying to shoot for the best 25 percent of the opposite group, you have competition.

INSANE competition.

This is like the 80/20 rule. 80 percent of people are trying to get with the best 20 percent of people.

My key point is that I, personally, filter out what I view as the bottom 75 percent of women that I talk to.

Think about the math there - 3 out of every 4 girls that I ever talk to get filtered out... and that's from the subset of the population that's at least HB7 and preferred ethnicities. I do this by the end of the first date. With looks, I do it before the first conversation.

And to add to that, whomever I don't filter out has to dig ME in order for any progress towards a mutually beneficial relationship can be made.

Bottom line - the odds are stacked. You just have to have realistic expectations about the kind of women you will meet. Don't get mired in thinking about the future of your relationships - take care of them in the present, because the world will keep on turning whether you're ready or not.

Finally, my take on LTRs:

You will NEVER, EVER have a successful LTR if you don't learn to compromise.

If you have a list of 20 demands, turn that into a list of 5 demands that you will not compromise.

Not only that, demand compromise in return.

Be honest to yourself, and be up front with your woman.

LTRs are built on mutual strength, respect, loyalty, independence, and most of all BENEFIT (benefit in the long term).

If an LTR is not benefitting both parties in the long term, it should end.

 

[wait_out]

There's your answer: she's European.

Funny you mention that. The best casual experiences of my life have all been with Europeans and French-Canadians, everyone else seems to have some kind of complex.

Case in point: I met this wonderful girl in the company of another American girl, who despite her intelligence, social skills and interesting job I could only describe as a mess. Due to moving constantly she's learned to flirt to have company. I caught on, did the math and scrapped her as a prospect. I would have been her friend/drinking buddy anyway, for which I thought she'd be grateful, except she drove me crazy trying to distance herself to the FZ rather than actually continuing to befriend me (big difference!!). I checked her pretty hard about that, got distracted by the European girl and haven't talked to her since except a few texts/invitations she's sent me since then. American girl recounted a story to me about her and her friends making a pact to all get plastic surgery at 30... so fvcked up. Not to mention her self-help book in her purse she "accidentally" showed me, constant drinking, alcohol-fueled hook-ups, and whether having an honest guy friend who's not trying to fvck her would make her insecure... Yes, its just an anecdote, but you have to go off your personal experiences.

With the European girl, everything we did was sober, friendly, happy, deliberate. I spent a lot of time playing tour guide; I didn't want her to think I was just using her as a sex toy. I still have great memories of 2 nights together including a lot of time together naked in bed (she didn't want to have sex -- "we've known each other 4 hours!" "hmm i guess that makes sense" ) Simple easy happy and I have a standing invitation to visit her overseas.

1) Is this girl good looking enough for me to actually desire her, versus my knee-jerk "f*ck everything that moves" reaction (this has always been my bane)
2) Is she rude?
3) Does she talk about people behind their backs?
4) Is she needy?
5) Is she unemployed?
6) Does she have baggage?
...
The list goes on. And I just don't call back the ones who don't pass.

The sad fact that you've stumbled upon is that literally 90 percent of the female (and male) population is unsuitable for LTR.

At best 25 percent of the female (and male) population would be a good ONS/STR. That's because with a ONS/STR, you never learn whatever it is about the other person that would turn you off enough to leave.

In this case the girl was good-looking (way better looking naked though ), kind, stable, employed, sensible... etc. If I was younger I probably would have felt like she was too good for a casual thing. These days I think a good STR/ONS can make people happier overall, even in putting together a healthy LTR in the future. On the bright side, the more of these good experiences I have, the less I feel obligated to fight it out in the trenches with the fraction of women who will inevitably make you unhappy.

I am learning