Lack of interest in SS/NLP on this board?

[PUA in Training]

I just started reading "The Game" this week and I'm up to the part where Style meets RJ and starts learning about SS. For those of you who have read it, remember the part where Style, RJ and some of RJ's people are in the restaurant and RJ says to the waitress "I can make you fall in love with any guy at this table" (emphasis mine)?

I notice that those in the know on this board seem to emphasize just having a lot going for you, just being the kind of guy that women dream of meeting, the Alpha Male, over techniques. And that when you actually have things going for you that raises your value in women's eyes, the rest just takes care of itself. The "Attraction and PUA an illusion" thread is a perfect example of this, but this seems to be the overall sentiment of the board. Women decide if you're "good enough" to get with them, and the one with more Alpha qualities is going to win.

So I'm just wondering why so little interest in SS/NLP on this board? Is it because RJ (from what little I know about him) seems to be of the philosophy that any loser can "make" a woman fall for him through hypnotic mind tricks and manipulation, even if he has NOTHING going for him that would raise his value in the eyes of a woman? And to get a woman to feel the same way about a guy as she would if he actually had something of value to offer her, when he doesn't, just feels like living a lie? Is it because SS seems too "manipulative" and guys feel guilty using it on women?

If the seeming lack of interest in SS/NLP is explained in previous threads, I apologize and ask if you could refer me to those threads.

 

[donArjun]

sosuave takes a generalist approach to this, as its a lot people, we tend to make it for the masses, but I think those specialized stuff are probably great, but probabaly not many people know about it to continue the flow of this size of a board.

 

[sexy_kuta]

sosuave takes a generalist approach to this, as its a lot people, we tend to make it for the masses, but I think those specialized stuff are probably great, but probabaly not many people know about it to continue the flow of this size of a board.

panchuad kuta

 

[pooparu]

I just started reading "The Game" this week and I'm up to the part where Style meets RJ and starts learning about SS. For those of you who have read it, remember the part where Style, RJ and some of RJ's people are in the restaurant and RJ says to the waitress "I can make you fall in love with any guy at this table" (emphasis mine)?

I notice that those in the know on this board seem to emphasize just having a lot going for you, just being the kind of guy that women dream of meeting, the Alpha Male, over techniques. And that when you actually have things going for you that raises your value in women's eyes, the rest just takes care of itself. The "Attraction and PUA an illusion" thread is a perfect example of this, but this seems to be the overall sentiment of the board. Women decide if you're "good enough" to get with them, and the one with more Alpha qualities is going to win.

So I'm just wondering why so little interest in SS/NLP on this board? Is it because RJ (from what little I know about him) seems to be of the philosophy that any loser can "make" a woman fall for him through hypnotic mind tricks and manipulation, even if he has NOTHING going for him that would raise his value in the eyes of a woman? And to get a woman to feel the same way about a guy as she would if he actually had something of value to offer her, when he doesn't, just feels like living a lie? Is it because SS seems too "manipulative" and guys feel guilty using it on women?

If the seeming lack of interest in SS/NLP is explained in previous threads, I apologize and ask if you could refer me to those threads.

The reasons can be very complex, but I think I can get it pretty easy for you.

When you have to use techniques, tricks, routines, etc, to get women, and thats the ONLY thing you do, then sure,m you may get laid every so often, hell you may get laid alot, but this doesn't fix the fundemental problem you started with. You are still an AFC, just with more skills, except now instead of manipulating with niceness and kindness, you manipulate through other ways. Am I saying use no techniques? No. I personally like using the cube, but since I've became more DJ, my use for the cube has changed from, "OMG OMG build attraction" to more like, "I like playing the cube". Again, I used to reserve it for just women I wanted to bang, but I find that alot of times even though most of it is BS, you can get people to talk about themselves, but you need to be genuinly interested. It's a dirtbag thing to do if you just wanna find out about a person to **** em.

Now as a DJ, its not just about women. PUAs seem to imply that life is about women. No, as a DJ, you get your LIFE handled. Business, pleasure, women, etc, they all fall into place. Its about being the best man possible, always wanting to improve, being confident, relax and about enjoying every moment of life, for a don juan knows that he is fortunate simply to be alive. Some DJs like to use techniques, but they realize its not necessary, as a true MAN, when you can communicate to a woman your sexuality in an eloquent way that masturbates her mind, that moves her emotions to the point that she WANTS to be with you, and the REAL you, not some fake, flashy technique giver, they realize that they can satisfy themselves, and can satisfy a woman. They realize its not just about women, but women are still a big part of life, just not what there universe centers around. They love to meet new people, have new experiences, and overall jus enjoy a high quality of life.

By the time you read the end of the game, I want you to look back at how much ****ed up **** happens to most of those guys, and how none of them (or most), really find happiness, despite how much they get laid, or what techniques they learn. I finished it, was really happy, but now that I reflect, I feel bad for alot of those guys, no matter how much they learn, they still are missing and feeling a hole wthat they have wante to fill since their AFC days. This my friend, is the result of focusing on just techniques and moves, and not on the system.

Good luck man, and enjoy life, for pleasure is what we live for.

 

[Desdinova]

So I'm just wondering why so little interest in SS/NLP on this board?

Time to give you a sosuave.com history lesson...

Back in the early years, PUAs who were into speed seduction actually made up about half the users on this forum. They eventually began asking for a special forum dedicated to speed seduction. Allen didn't necessarily want an entire forum devoted to it, but made a forum called "Unusual Techniques in Seduction". You can still find the forum here:

http://www.sosuave.net/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=22

Eventually, those who were involved in speed seduction left it behind. Speed seduction can get very repetitive, boring, and it doesn't allow for actual progression in a relationship. Those who used it moved on to bigger and better things.

So, to kinda answer your question, the forum outgrew speed seduction.

 

[PUA in Training]

I've been looking at some of the SS forum. Interesting how several of the posts I read said basically if you want a LTR, SS is not the way to go. I guess because most guys don't want a relationship with a woman that is only based on his ability to manipulate her mind/emotions? I've been such a super AFC all my life, I can't say whether I'd have a problem with that myself

Too bad none of the links on the SS forum work (and haven't worked in several years looks like). I guess it depends what you want to accomplish in life: be a success in life in general, or if you'd be so happy just being a success with women, that you wouldn't mind being a fvckup as far as the rest of your life is concerned.

I haven't decided yet which of those categories I fall under. I'm not interested in being a "ladies man" and "scoring" left and right. There's only one woman that I want. One who I've had OneItis for for years. If I had her, I don't think I'd mind being a fvckup the rest of my life in general. But that's another thread in itself I suppose

 

[Serialized3]

I think as far as my application of Speed Seduction goes, I'm really only interested in the patterns. I think they're quite valuble in learning the types of emotive language and pace and flow of solid mid game conversation. I don't run any patterns when I game, but reading them aloud has made my conversations with women much more interesting.

They always love talking about passion, feelings, adventure, and dreams, as opposed to where they work, where they're from, what their hobbies are...

 

[Lifeforce]

Being the guy who wrote the Speed Seduction bible in the unusual techniques in seduction I'm gonna give my view on why I changed from it to natural attraction only.

To be honest I didn't fully understand everything and the language barrier made it very hard to implement in my language. I tried the SS stuff out in different places but I didn't like it at all because you have to be involved in what you say all the time. This means meeting women becomes more of a task than just meeting and having fun. Some of the things are useful like the embedded commands, mirroring and stuff but you can develop these skills naturally if you improve yourself. Weight training for example will have an impact on your confidence and the way you speak and cary yourself.

Another reason why I decided to abandon SS was because it just wasn't funny. Too much manipulating. You don't want to calculate love, you want to experience it. SS is just an ultimate form of supplicating, you suppress your needs to give the woman what she wants. Where is the joy of her being love if you cannot feel anything for yourself? Imagine if you discover the only way you can get women is to trick them into likign you. Talk about blow to the self confidence. I guess I finally understood it isn't about GETTING women, it's about you getting an experience. How can you get this while you have to plan and calculate every move.

All in all, SS and NLP is perfect tools for pathetic losers who cannot get women any other way. Ask yourself if it's worth to give up yourself to get a woman to fall in love for you.

 

[PUA in Training]

Another reason why I decided to abandon SS was because it just wasn't funny. Too much manipulating. You don't want to calculate love, you want to experience it. SS is just an ultimate form of supplicating, you suppress your needs to give the woman what she wants. Where is the joy of her being love if you cannot feel anything for yourself? Imagine if you discover the only way you can get women is to trick them into likign you. Talk about blow to the self confidence. I guess I finally understood it isn't about GETTING women, it's about you getting an experience. How can you get this while you have to plan and calculate every move.

All in all, SS and NLP is perfect tools for pathetic losers who cannot get women any other way. Ask yourself if it's worth to give up yourself to get a woman to fall in love for you.

I guess I understand now why some people in the SS forum said that SS does not lend itself to LTR's. So you never get to the point where you've "NeuroLinguistically Programmed" the woman enough to see you the way you want her to see you, that you can finally just be yourself?

I read a little bit of an article on RJ years ago in Rolling Stone, and it said something about him having a girlfriend but I can't remember if he claimed it was an exclusive relationship or an open one. So you mean to keep his girlfriend (assuming he cares about keeping her), he has to keep using NLP on her for the rest of the relationship?? Every day?? Am I understanding correctly?

I don't care too much about the manipulation part or knowing that I need mind tricks to get women. But if I'd have to do that, it would just be too much work

 

[Distant Light]

SS is kind of outdated, mainly the old school PUAs still use it. I was kind of interested in learning how to structure NLP patterns at one point but didn't feel like reading new stuff. (******* pattern I always wanted to try) But ya there is by far more updated stuff. (DYD, Direct Game, MM, Juggler, Gunwitch, RSD, Natural Game)

 

[The Bad Ass Canadian]

IMO, SS and all those PUA tricks are nothing more than "smoke and mirror" tricks used mostly by guys who have no real "game". If a guy is focused on being a better man and adopts a more inner game approach, he'll get alot further in his dealings with women.... Maybe not in the pick up scene, but more in actual relationships.

If you're solely focused on SS and PUA sh!t, you'll get laid but be prepared to never be in a commited relationship with a quality girl, unless you are also developing your inner game and attitude.

 

[The Juan and only]

Let me tell you right now, SS is total bull****.

Its another example of PUAs taking one small aspect of human interaction
and then spinning it into an entire seducton system, which of course they
then sell at less-than-modest prices.

One PUA will tell you that only 7% of communication is verbal (i.e it doesnt really matter what you say), while another would try to pawn you off with is latest SS book.

Most Seduction techniques are an illusion, and you should realise that focusing too heavily in one area wont get you anywhere. Take the time to look at the world through your own eyes, to judge it for yourself and see things for what they really are. Think about it logically. Speaking to a woman, or anyone, about sexual topics and emotional events does of course cause a state of arousal, but theres no magic to it. There's no secret combination of words and sounds that will make a woman instanlty fall for you, no. Getting her aroused through speech is just a tool in the bag, another step on the road to seduction; and certainly no magical spell or "easy alternative".

Eventually experience will show you that no single "technique" or skill, single ability or routine can really make the man. To attract women you simply need to become a social person, leaving those phobia's of old in your wake.

Sosuave is about building your confidence and personality, rather than looking for that snake-oil quick fix.

 

[PUA in Training]

IMO, SS and all those PUA tricks are nothing more than "smoke and mirror" tricks used mostly by guys who have no real "game". If a guy is focused on being a better man and adopts a more inner game approach, he'll get alot further in his dealings with women.... Maybe not in the pick up scene, but more in actual relationships.

If you're solely focused on SS and PUA sh!t, you'll get laid but be prepared to never be in a commited relationship with a quality girl, unless you are also developing your inner game and attitude.

So AM I understanding correctly? Say a guy theoretically was in a relationship with a woman, and had nothing that she would otherwise value, except that he's able to manipulate her mind/emotions and make her feel AS IF he has something of value. He never gets to the point where he's "programmed" her enough to be in love with him that he can stop programming her and just relax and be himself?

 

[AngelusPUA]

A seduction gurus book isn’t the holy grail of dating, negging her a few times and using C+F won’t make a HB10 jump into your bed. WAKE UP it’s just an illusion, most seduction Gurus will have you believe that learning how to be great with women is easy, why? Because they want your money, they tell you to use NLP, C+F, hypnosis and canned lines all these useless techniques. They are business men they will show you something that seems simple and easy and you will throw money their way.

It happens all the time If you’ve ever seen early morning infomercials they always come up with all these versatile solutions for modern living. A toaster that cooks bread 10x faster, a juice machine that juices 1 orange per second (they don’t tell you it's made in China and has a 1 week life expectancy). That’s what most of these seduction gurus sell you, they tell you you need to go out and do street approaches, you need to learn how to talk, you need to learn how to hypnotize women, NLP and all this other nonsense. They sell you a fantasy for their own fu*kin profit and who can blame them, we all want to make money.

You need to become the man that women desire, you have to have to cultivate all the attributes that attract women and dispel all the ones that don’t.

Forget about NLP.........

 

[The Juan and only]

A seduction gurus book isn’t the holy grail of dating, negging her a few times and using C+F won’t make a HB10 jump into your bed. WAKE UP it’s just an illusion, most seduction Gurus will have you believe that learning how to be great with women is easy, why? Because they want your money, they tell you to use NLP, C+F, hypnosis and canned lines all these useless techniques. They are business men they will show you something that seems simple and easy and you will throw money their way.

It happens all the time If you’ve ever seen early morning infomercials they always come up with all these versatile solutions for modern living. A toaster that cooks bread 10x faster, a juice machine that juices 1 orange per second (they don’t tell you it's made in China and has a 1 week life expectancy). That’s what most of these seduction gurus sell you, they tell you you need to go out and do street approaches, you need to learn how to talk, you need to learn how to hypnotize women, NLP and all this other nonsense. They sell you a fantasy for their own fu*kin profit and who can blame them, we all want to make money.

You need to become the man that women desire, you have to have to cultivate all the attributes that attract women and dispel all the ones that don’t.

Forget about NLP.........

I second that with a cherry on top. If you have ever actually paid out for any PUA material, I pity you. And to any newcomers: dont take things at face value unless they agree with your own reasoning and experience...oh, and DONT BUY ****, and by ****, I mean anything claiming to be a seduction guide.

You can get it all for free anyway. Just read around the forum

 

[AngelusPUA]

Even if you can get it for free DO NOT READ IT, it will fill your mind with bullsh*t.

 

[The Bad Ass Canadian]

So AM I understanding correctly? Say a guy theoretically was in a relationship with a woman, and had nothing that she would otherwise value, except that he's able to manipulate her mind/emotions and make her feel AS IF he has something of value. He never gets to the point where he's "programmed" her enough to be in love with him that he can stop programming her and just relax and be himself?

Basically, yeah..... The second he drops the tactics, he drops all the things that more than likely got her interested in the first place. So she soon discovers that the man underneath the "game" is nothing more than a fraud.

The SS stuff can work, but you need to have somthing to replace it, once you get her interested.

That's why girls test. They want to make sure that all this upfront game is real and not just a facade. PUA's can get with women but very few will be able to keep them for any amount of time if all they focus on is wooing her into bed and have nothing else to offer, longterm.

 

[Spirit Fingers]

There isn't much interest in SS here because it doesn't work. I have met up with a ton of guys from the community, and I have NEVER seen someone who used Speed Seduction actually pick up chicks.

-Dan

 

[The Truth]

IMO, SS and all those PUA tricks are nothing more than "smoke and mirror" tricks used mostly by guys who have no real "game". If a guy is focused on being a better man and adopts a more inner game approach, he'll get alot further in his dealings with women.... Maybe not in the pick up scene, but more in actual relationships.

If you're solely focused on SS and PUA sh!t, you'll get laid but be prepared to never be in a commited relationship with a quality girl, unless you are also developing your inner game and attitude.

Totally agree with you dude!!

Also I heard somewhere that Ross Jeffries was known to use a plant - a woman he payed to go along with his act - and he possibly used one in the situation mentioned in The Game.

I really don't believe in speed seduction. I had a girl try it on me once and it was so obvious what she was doing and it creeped me out. No one likes to feel like someone is trying to f*ck with their mind!

 

[The Bad Ass Canadian]

There isn't much interest in SS here because it doesn't work. I have met up with a ton of guys from the community, and I have NEVER seen someone who used Speed Seduction actually pick up chicks.

-Dan

I agree, and just to clarify.. when I say SS I do mean that in the broad term of being a PUA and not necessarily that NLP stuff.

My apologies if i got these two confused. PUA gimmicks can work, but I don't think I'd ever dare run a pattern on some chick... I'm assuming that's what you mean by SS.

And i guess the nlp tactics are great for geeks who wanna pull some jedi mind trick on unsuspecting ladies lmao!