Kiss Close Rejection First Date - Where did I go wrong, how can I improve?

[Audiophile]

Hey guys:

Been a while since I've needed some solid advice, but I honestly feel like I'm being thrown back into highschool all over again. And before anyone says spin plates and ****, I wanna make this clear:
I'm currently dating 2 other girls in MLTRs, so the whole "forget about it pick up someone else" is bvll****. If I wanted someone else I would go for them, but that's not the case. If you can't be assed to read all of this, scroll to where I bolded "read this part".

Okay, backstory:

Met this girl in my chem lab a few weeks ago, we instantly hit it off. I was flirting with her from the get-go, one of her first comments to me was "You make me feel like I'm a little kid again". I'm super playful and flirty, which has always worked for me without fail. At the end of lab I ask for her number, to which she replies "I'm seeing someone right now", I give her a "I'm not interested in them, I want YOUR number". She gives it to me and I'm off.

We got together a week after to work on the lab with 2 friends, we were flirty the entire time and actually did work. Mentioned her boyfriend ONCE, not to me, but to the girls. Put him in a negative light too, "My boyfriend right now is way too tall when we walk out together". Another seemingly good sign.

Next lab we sit next to each other and I flirt around, making a joke about her taking me out to dinner, to which she rplies "Did you just ask me out?", I don't bother with a solid reply here (May have been where I went wrong there, but bear with me), so I switch the topic. On our way back from lab we walk through campus together and joke around, she's ALWAYS smiling and laughing throughout any of our interactions. Sometimes I wonder if she's just like this in general, or if I bring it out in her.

NOT Backstory:

Anyway, today was our midterm, and I asked her out to dinner after so we could go celebrate. She says Yes, so we meet up after our test (fvcking obliterated it too, felt like a rockstar). Just gonna go grab some sushi quickly, on our walk there I show her parts of campus she's never seen, and she's excited about that. Entire time there's constant kino and playing around, always looking her in the eye. Pretty much playing it as well as I can.

So we get to the sushi place and the line up is PACKED. Luckily the girl working there gives us a queue ticket and tells us to come back in 15. I take her (my date) to a nearby frozen yogurt place and we try some of their flavors just to see, after that I take her to a really cool store nearby she says she's been wanting to go to. (Sidenote: The area I took her to was completely new to her, she kept commenting on it).

We sit down at dinner, and since we've got this huge booth I sit next to her (I'm not sure about this one, I've been REALLY successful in the past sitting next to the girl for dinner. One of my friends tells me otherwise, because you build up sexual tension not doing it. What do you guys think?). A 30-40 minute turned into an hour and a half or so, we just sat there sharing stories, I asked her date-y questions (what do you like in guys, funniest date story, etc etc) which she was enthusiastic about. Oh just to be clear, this WAS a date, I mentioned it a few times and she understood that point, none of this "wishy-washy what is this" bvllcrap. Never once mentioned her current boyfriend (I'll talk about this shortly). I ask her what she likes in guys, and she says the whole "Alpha male" thing, so I take that one to heart. I lead her around everywhere, and I'm generally pretty damn confident in myself.

Anyway, after dinner we walk back toward campus and play this pedestrian game where we try to make people move out of the way (hard to explain, it's a ton of fun though) by walking straight ahead. On our way back we walk by a park and I figure it'd be fun to get as high in a tree as we can, so we drop our bags and climb that bad boy. At this point I was never close enough for any kiss, so yeah. She kept pressing that she had to go though, so we just left there.

Read just this below if you're lazy.

In front of her residence on campus we sat on a bench for like 5 mins, REALLY close to each other. When she went to leave she gave me a hug, which i was like "Oh wait what?" (internally). I tell her we should do this again sometime, and she says "Yeah for sure when we're both not super busy", can't really tell how enthused she was. As she leaves she turns to face me and I go in for a kiss... but she stops my by putting her hand in front of my chest and kind of softly pushes me away. I play it off and say goodbye and walk away.

So now I'm fvcking confused:
1) I played it perfectly, made her have fun, she understood we were on a date, laughing the entire time, all of that.
2) I never once asked her about her boyfriend, is that something I should have done? I figured if she never brought it up she just doesn't care.
3) Maybe she just doesn't kiss on the first date?

Anyway, I'm seeing her TOMORROW in our lab, and I'm just gonna play it cool, but idk if I should call her out on it. I.e, she asks me to go get her something for the lab and I could smile and say "Sorry you didn't kiss me so I can't", or when she comes to give me something I can just go "You're not gonna pull away like last night are you?". Just examples, the whole thing is if I should call her out on it or not, and what to do for next time.

Three questions:
1) Should I have asked straight up if she has a boyfriend or not?
2) Sitting next to her during dinner, okay or not okay? She talked about it quickly, but was super cool with the whole thing.
3) Should I call her out on it?

Thanks a lot for taking your time to read this, appreciate any advice you guys can give,


Audio

 

[marmel75]

Who sits across from each other?

Opposing Lawyers working out a deal
Opposing Generals working out terms of a peace settlement
Opposing parties in a negotiation
People who don't like each other...

Friends sit next to each other...

Subconciously when you are sitting across from someone, you will feel as if they are on opposing sides...


However, I had the opposite situation occur tonite...out with an HB8, I pulled a chair out for her to sit next to me and she choose to sit across from me...I considered it a pretty strong IOD so I just chilled, played it cool, leaned back and spread out....didn't really put too much effort into the convo, just was going to finish my beer and bounce...

We get to her car and she asks where I parked. I turn around and point in the other direction, and when I turn back she is within 3 inches of my face. She then pulls me closer, kisses me for about 10 seconds, and then says "I've been wanting to do that all night..."

Pretty much exact opposite of what you had...you had all green lights until the end, I had all red lights but she made sure the light turned green at the end without me trying or even doing anything.

I guess perhaps the moral of this whole thing is that if the girl is into you it really doesn't matter what you do or don't do...its going to happen anyway, and if she isn't it doesn't matter cause it won't...

Maybe she felt guilty because she had a boyfriend...

 

[Audiophile]

Who sits across from each other?

Opposing Lawyers working out a deal
Opposing Generals working out terms of a peace settlement
Opposing parties in a negotiation
People who don't like each other...

Friends sit next to each other...

Subconciously when you are sitting across from someone, you will feel as if they are on opposing sides...

Yeah I always try to, I just do it because you can get more kino in and it's easier to make observations around the room to point out quirky or fun things.

Do you think I should call her out on the rejection though?

 

[Fly By Night]

1. That's up to you. As far as I see, there's nothing wrong with asking her straight up, as anyone can ask a question like that. But then she will see you in a light that you want to be her bf instead of him.

2. *Answered already*

3. Noooooo. :nono: Just play it cool.

Maybe she felt guilty because she had a boyfriend...

If her friends saw her going out to a restaurant with you and eating. It is questionable to say that she was cheating on her bf. Now if she kisses you, they could definitely say that she was cheating on her bf.

It's not you bro, you did your job. She was just trying to prevent sh!t from hitting the fan.

 

[marmel75]

Yeah I always try to, I just do it because you can get more kino in and it's easier to make observations around the room to point out quirky or fun things.

Do you think I should call her out on the rejection though?

I would just play it cool and act like it never happened...if you call her out it shows you've been thinking about it a lot...

 

[Harry Wilmington]

Congraaaaaaaatulations! You have voluntarily signed up to play the role of...

THE SUCKA!!!!

Tell 'em what he's won, Bob!

"Well, Audiophile, you now get the chance to date a girl who's already got an alleged boyfriend! That means you get to stroke her ego by making her feel desired and appreciated - things her boyfriend may or may not be doing - while at the same time not getting anything back in return!

Prepare for many fun-filled nights of paying for meals, outings, and other things while not getting back the things from her you secretly desire, like kissing, fvcking, or having her make breakfast for you in the morning! You'll also get to be the guy she goes to when she wants to complain about her boyfriend, despite the fact that he may actually be an outstanding citizen who just happens to have a girlfriend that's unappreciative of what he does for her - or better yet, a spoiled brat!

Yes, there's nothing better than going after a girl with no integrity who clearly has NO problem cheating on the person she claims to be with - and if you're lucky, you just MIGHT be able to be the guy she cheats on someday as well! Back to you, Harry!"

Wow, sounds like being a SUCKA is going to be lots of frustrating fun! Best of luck to you, and until next time this is Harry saying: why go after an available chick when there are so many taken chicks out there just WAITING to be unfaithful? Good night, and good luck!

 

[Trump]

Yeah I agree above, couple of points:

1) Why do guys keep on going out with girls who are already having regular constant sex with their boyfriends? You have put in all this work for her ego while the boyfriend says 8 words and she drops her underwear for him every night.
2) Why the heck did you keep insisting it was a date? Rather it not be called a date and her giving you some action at the end.
3) You were well aware she had a boyfriend, what are you going to call her out on? You can only call her out if she attacks you personally.

 

[Audiophile]

Yeah I agree above, couple of points:

1) Why do guys keep on going out with girls who are already having regular constant sex with their boyfriends? You have put in all this work for her ego while the boyfriend says 8 words and she drops her underwear for him every night.
2) Why the heck did you keep insisting it was a date? Rather it not be called a date and her giving you some action at the end.
3) You were well aware she had a boyfriend, what are you going to call her out on? You can only call her out if she attacks you personally.

1) She met this guy a week before she met me, so I doubt they're too close. I go for girls with boyfriends because if I want those girls, I'm not gonna wait for a "perfect moment". Every time I've done that it's never ended well, so I'm switching it up.

2) I didn't "insist", I just wanted to make it clear it was a date, mentioned it when she asked then one more time, but I wouldn't stress it.

3) You're right. I'm just gonna play it cool and see what happens, not gonna be a pvssy and text her and all that though. I'll ask her out next week when I've got free time and see what happens.

 

[Aristippus]

Audiophile,

There are too many things wrong with this. Too many things wrong with your choice and some internal things and behavior you need to work on. I'm not telling you this to berate you or to put you down. I'm telling you this so you can understand what's going on and where you need to improve.

First, she has a boyfriend. And you've decided you want to go after a girl who is already spoken for. This is mistake #1. You need to have high behavioral standards for yourself. Mistake #2. You don't have high enough behavioral standards for the women you choose to date and have chosen a woman who is displaying low quality behavior and character on a few levels. You want to pursue a girl who isn't loyal. She at the very least has no respect for her relationship or boyfriend and is just stringing you along. At the very worst, she thinks it's acceptable to cheat on her boyfriend.

Mistake#3-
Your TIMING is off.......

There is also a possibility that she is very interested but that your timing is off. Actually, I know it is off, but guess what? I'm not going to enable you to go any further with this particular woman. I want you to crash and burn with this particular woman because it isn't healthy, so I won't go into specifics about this one.

Mistake #4- While it is okay to be interested in someone, you aren't screening for high interest. If you were screening women for high interest you wouldn't be asking whether or not you should call her out. You would be asking whether or not she is interested and THEN, based on her interest level, you would decide for yourself whether or not you should DUMP HER.

Mistake #5- You verbalize un-necessarily. This is a mistake a lot of men make. Set up expectations THROUGH YOUR BEHAVIOR. You don't have to say "We're going on a date! Look! We're out on a date everybody! Hey, let's go on a DATE!". Just spend time together and let your actions do the talking. Let her put whatever meaning into it that she wants. You can spend time with a woman and kiss her without ever saying "Let's go out on a date! It's date night!". The only time you verbalize intention is to reassure her and manage a woman's expectations. Meaning you never lie to a woman and tell her you're going to be exclusively with her if you aren't. You can also verbalize you're in an exclusive relationship when the time is right.

Mistake #6- STOP putting her and her affections on a pedestal. Stop feeling the need to "call her out" any time she doesn't give you a display of affection that you want. If necessary, get what you want SOMEWHERE ELSE. NEVER make an issue over displays of affection or sex. Either do it or don't. Do NOT whine over sex or over affection.

Here's a quote from you. You said maybe you could try this:
"Anyway, I'm seeing her TOMORROW in our lab, and I'm just gonna play it cool, but idk if I should call her out on it. I.e, she asks me to go get her something for the lab and I could smile and say "Sorry you didn't kiss me so I can't", or when she comes to give me something I can just go "You're not gonna pull away like last night are you?". Just examples, the whole thing is if I should call her out on it or not, and what to do for next time."

**** Ok. This sounds like whining, insecure, passive aggressive behavior. Do not do this! I doubt a woman's sexual fantasy starts with the man whining and harping on her about how she didn't kiss him.

Audio. I'm sure you're a good guy. And I might sound like I'm being a little rough on you. The truth hurts but there it is. I hope you don't take this as bashing but as an attempt to help you to become the man you want to be. Take what you can from it and fortunately for you, even though I could tell you what to do and how to determine pretty quickly whether or not she wants to have sex with you, and if she does, how to proceed quickly, I'm not going to do it. It's not in your best interest even if it might be something you want.

 

[thevilittletroll]

^a lot of good points and i agree in principle for the most part. one thing that i want to add is this. you said that you were asking what types of guys she's likes and she said alpa guys. first off you should never ask that. is sub communicates that you dont know what women want. secondly you showed her over the course of your "date" you were not an alpha male. you may have lead her from place to place, but you did not lead the interaction to a physical place. you should have been making out with her after about 15-20 mins. if she reacts the same way she did at the end of the night, guess what. you have 3 more hours to keep escalating. not escalating proves to her that you are not alpha.

dont fall into the trap of being her sucker. think about this, you take her out and spend your money "talking" with no physical escalation, when you think its a date. she goes home to her boyfriend who is probably alpha and just has sex with her. all without him having to much at all. he just escalates.

the bottom line is, being touchy feely, and using kino is not enough. you have to escalate sexually. its the ultimate test of interest level.

 

[Audiophile]

Audiophile,



First, she has a boyfriend. And you've decided you want to go after a girl who is already spoken for. This is mistake #1. You need to have high behavioral standards for yourself. Mistake #2. You don't have high enough behavioral standards for the women you choose to date and have chosen a woman who is displaying low quality behavior and character on a few levels. You want to pursue a girl who isn't loyal. She at the very least has no respect for her relationship or boyfriend and is just stringing you along. At the very worst, she thinks it's acceptable to cheat on her boyfriend.

Hmmmm, you're right on this one. I mean, if she's down to cheat on her boyfriend so easily, how do I know she's just not gonna do it to me down the line?

Mistake#3-
Your TIMING is off.......

There is also a possibility that she is very interested but that your timing is off. Actually, I know it is off, but guess what? I'm not going to enable you to go any further with this particular woman. I want you to crash and burn with this particular woman because it isn't healthy, so I won't go into specifics about this one.

I'd rather not crash and burn, but I appreciate your advice. You're completely right though, the timing is OFF. If anything I'm just gonna play it cool, back off, and let things play out normally. I'm much more clear minded today, emotions were running high yesterday because of the rejection.

Mistake #4- While it is okay to be interested in someone, you aren't screening for high interest. If you were screening women for high interest you wouldn't be asking whether or not you should call her out. You would be asking whether or not she is interested and THEN, based on her interest level, you would decide for yourself whether or not you should DUMP HER.

She was giving me great signals of interest, always asking about me, wanting to get to know me and asking to study. I always assume interest anyway, makes things easier. But I see your point here, it's like Anti-Dumps machine, just gotta weed out the girls who aren't worth my time.

Mistake #5- You verbalize un-necessarily. This is a mistake a lot of men make. Set up expectations THROUGH YOUR BEHAVIOR. You don't have to say "We're going on a date! Look! We're out on a date everybody! Hey, let's go on a DATE!". Just spend time together and let your actions do the talking. Let her put whatever meaning into it that she wants. You can spend time with a woman and kiss her without ever saying "Let's go out on a date! It's date night!". The only time you verbalize intention is to reassure her and manage a woman's expectations. Meaning you never lie to a woman and tell her you're going to be exclusively with her if you aren't. You can also verbalize you're in an exclusive relationship when the time is right.

Yeah,I only mentioned it twice (now that I think about it), and in passing. Again though, you bring up a good point with the whole "verbalizing intention" point. I rarely do it, but then again I don't know how much better it would work to just be straight up. What do yo uthink?

Mistake #6- STOP putting her and her affections on a pedestal. Stop feeling the need to "call her out" any time she doesn't give you a display of affection that you want. If necessary, get what you want SOMEWHERE ELSE. NEVER make an issue over displays of affection or sex. Either do it or don't. Do NOT whine over sex or over affection.

I already do this, I have two other girls I'm dating right now, so I can get all the sex/affection I need. I guess I'm just hung up because I'm not used to being rejected at all, so I don't know how to handle it. But the point is valid, I won't bring this s*** up, it sounds needy as hell anyway.

Here's a quote from you. You said maybe you could try this:
"Anyway, I'm seeing her TOMORROW in our lab, and I'm just gonna play it cool, but idk if I should call her out on it. I.e, she asks me to go get her something for the lab and I could smile and say "Sorry you didn't kiss me so I can't", or when she comes to give me something I can just go "You're not gonna pull away like last night are you?". Just examples, the whole thing is if I should call her out on it or not, and what to do for next time."

**** Ok. This sounds like whining, insecure, passive aggressive behavior. Do not do this! I doubt a woman's sexual fantasy starts with the man whining and harping on her about how she didn't kiss him.

True, a friend suggested something like that, and I'm just plain out not gonna do it.

Audio. I'm sure you're a good guy. And I might sound like I'm being a little rough on you. The truth hurts but there it is. I hope you don't take this as bashing but as an attempt to help you to become the man you want to be. Take what you can from it and fortunately for you, even though I could tell you what to do and how to determine pretty quickly whether or not she wants to have sex with you, and if she does, how to proceed quickly, I'm not going to do it. It's not in your best interest even if it might be something you want.

This last part I really appreciate, because I understand that you COULD just give me the "easy" and "magic" pill for it, but I want to learn for myself so I know what to do. In your opinion though, do you think this situation is shot?

I'm just gonna play it cool, honestly I'm not nearly as bothered by it today as I was yesterday. Probably helps that I met up with one of the girls I'm dating today.

Thanks for the solid advice though, if anything I learned:
1) Not to bother with girls that are taken. I can plant seeds and whatnot for the future when they DO break up.
2) Timing is KEY. You brought this up, but it didn't really hit home for me until now.

^a lot of good points and i agree in principle for the most part. one thing that i want to add is this. you said that you were asking what types of guys she's likes and she said alpa guys. first off you should never ask that. is sub communicates that you dont know what women want. secondly you showed her over the course of your "date" you were not an alpha male. you may have lead her from place to place, but you did not lead the interaction to a physical place. you should have been making out with her after about 15-20 mins. if she reacts the same way she did at the end of the night, guess what. you have 3 more hours to keep escalating. not escalating proves to her that you are not alpha. She asked me first so I just reciprocated the question. Honestly, I don't know if I can agree with your second part, about the whole "making out" aspect. ALl of the girls that I've dated (who I'd keep to a higher standard) have been uncomfortable with that sort of stuff AT FIRST. I'm OK with this, because the next date usually goes as far as I want it to. Thought you're right, I should've been trying throughout the date, I'll do this from now on.

dont fall into the trap of being her sucker. think about this, you take her out and spend your money "talking" with no physical escalation, when you think its a date. she goes home to her boyfriend who is probably alpha and just has sex with her. all without him having to much at all. he just escalates.

Good point.

the bottom line is, being touchy feely, and using kino is not enough. you have to escalate sexually. its the ultimate test of interest level.

There were a few times where I genuinely felt like I could escalate, you know that energy/vibe you get when you look at the girl? Well I didn't follow through with it, so I should have then

 

[Sandow]

Points have already been made and they're all true. I'll just throw out a few more.

First, you're already making it very difficult by chasing taken girls. It's only an uphill battle from here. Prepare for a lot of wasted time and effort.

Second, she knows exactly what your after. YOUR interest level is way too high. You may have been all C&F on her, but she knows what you're up to. But at least your were amusing to her and made her laugh. She can see you as a great friend who's always be there for her.

Put yourself in her situation.

You're dating someone that obviously you're really into. Some girl asks for your number, you say no. She basically begs for it, so you reluctantly give it to her. Then she asks to take you out to dinner and is all over you and trying so hard to impress. You're probably asking to yourself "why the fck is this girl trying so hard? Especially when she knows I have a girlfriend? She doesn't even know me!" A little creepy right?

Girls will get super creeped out by this. Especially when they have told you they have a stinkin boyfriend. This behavior from guys is super AFC, creepy and says a lot about your character

 

[Starkwell]

LOL this chick has a boyfriend and you take her out and try to "put the moves on her" and you wonder why you got nowhere with her. She needed the companion time with you and the sex time with the boyfriend. He probably ignores her and you were her comfort buddy. Let them come to you but don't put any special effort and a chick that is "taken" because it's not worth it. I would say if she was digging you might of got that kiss or something more boyfriend or not. You seem a little too green with women or way too eager to get a woman taken or not.

 

[Starkwell]

Congraaaaaaaatulations! You have voluntarily signed up to play the role of...

THE SUCKA!!!!

Tell 'em what he's won, Bob!

"Well, Audiophile, you now get the chance to date a girl who's already got an alleged boyfriend! That means you get to stroke her ego by making her feel desired and appreciated - things her boyfriend may or may not be doing - while at the same time not getting anything back in return!

Prepare for many fun-filled nights of paying for meals, outings, and other things while not getting back the things from her you secretly desire, like kissing, fvcking, or having her make breakfast for you in the morning! You'll also get to be the guy she goes to when she wants to complain about her boyfriend, despite the fact that he may actually be an outstanding citizen who just happens to have a girlfriend that's unappreciative of what he does for her - or better yet, a spoiled brat!

Yes, there's nothing better than going after a girl with no integrity who clearly has NO problem cheating on the person she claims to be with - and if you're lucky, you just MIGHT be able to be the guy she cheats on someday as well! Back to you, Harry!"

Wow, sounds like being a SUCKA is going to be lots of frustrating fun! Best of luck to you, and until next time this is Harry saying: why go after an available chick when there are so many taken chicks out there just WAITING to be unfaithful? Good night, and good luck!

Thank You Harry and now back to our contest! Very good advice here and hope audiophile reads it well.

 

[Aristippus]

Audiophile,

When I said it's not in your best interest, I meant that successfully moving forward with a girl who has a boyfriend isn't in your best interest. If I gave you instruction on how to move forward with her quickly, it would be like me giving a person who is contemplating suicide a loaded gun.

I'm basically trying to prevent you from creating a bad situation for yourself with a woman of questionable character by not giving you the ammo to get anything started. It's like using preventative measures to save you from a bad situation. Instead of giving a pyromaniac gas and a box of matches and then having to pull someone out of a burning building, you just prevent the disaster by not giving him the means to create it.

 

[sylvester the cat]

Congraaaaaaaatulations! You have voluntarily signed up to play the role of...

THE SUCKA!!!!

Tell 'em what he's won, Bob!

"Well, Audiophile, you now get the chance to date a girl who's already got an alleged boyfriend! That means you get to stroke her ego by making her feel desired and appreciated - things her boyfriend may or may not be doing - while at the same time not getting anything back in return!

Prepare for many fun-filled nights of paying for meals, outings, and other things while not getting back the things from her you secretly desire, like kissing, fvcking, or having her make breakfast for you in the morning! You'll also get to be the guy she goes to when she wants to complain about her boyfriend, despite the fact that he may actually be an outstanding citizen who just happens to have a girlfriend that's unappreciative of what he does for her - or better yet, a spoiled brat!

Yes, there's nothing better than going after a girl with no integrity who clearly has NO problem cheating on the person she claims to be with - and if you're lucky, you just MIGHT be able to be the guy she cheats on someday as well! Back to you, Harry!"

Wow, sounds like being a SUCKA is going to be lots of frustrating fun! Best of luck to you, and until next time this is Harry saying: why go after an available chick when there are so many taken chicks out there just WAITING to be unfaithful? Good night, and good luck!

lol.

as much as i was in love with this oneitis at work, i still could not get out of my head the fact that she was willing to flirt and give me blatant IOIs despite still being in a relationship...which means to me only one thing. if me and her got it on, she would have no hesitation to do the same to me...

the heart wants what the hearts wants, but the head knows what's in store for it if it gets it.