Is This Guy Alpha?

[taiyuu_otoko]

Lots of talk about what is alpha and what isn't lately. How about this guy?

Meet Soccer's $600 Million Man

Dwarfing the money in America's NFL, NBA, or MLB, the 25-year-old forward has agreed to join French side Paris St.Germain (PSG) for a stunning EUR222 million ($250 million).

This year he was placed third on Forbes magazine’s list of the highest-paid footballers behind Ronaldo and Messi.

Born in Mogi das Cruzes, a small city east of Sao Paulo, Neymar da Silva Santos Junior is the only son of former professional footballer Neymar Santos and wife Nadine.

On the pitch, during his four seasons in Catalonia, Neymar has helped Barcelona win the Spanish league twice, the Champions League once, the Spanish cup on three occasions and the FIFA Club World Cup.

 

[speed dawg]

He's artificially alpha, for sure, because he has options. Rollo Tomassi used to say this about himself back when he was playing in a band or something, he would get groupies and such due to being socially alpha. But when he's wife came around he found out that he was mush on the inside.

So who knows what this guy is like deep down. Kid Rock was an alpha too until Pamela Anderson came along and left him quivering in the corner.

All depends on how you're going to define alpha.

 

[taiyuu_otoko]

All depends on how you're going to define alpha.

That was the kind of the point of the thread. To see if people define this guy as alpha.

Yay or Nay?

Every alpha monkey (or ape or wolf) is alpha until he is not.

 

[SteR]

It's interesting because on the face of it status and whatever you want to call an 'alpha male' are very similar, but I don't believe they're the same. This guy has status for sure.

The way I look at it is this: If you stripped a man of all his wealth and status, and put him in a group of say 100 other men, how would the group respond and arrange themselves around him? It's hard to define because it's a tonne of characteristics such as the man's social skills, charisma, ability to lead, ability to garner respect from his peers etc etc. Plus it's completely situational. It's not as black and white as saying a man's alpha or not.

Frankly I'm sick to death of the term.

 

[Fruitbat]

I don't like the alpha/beta stuff. There is so much variation. Some men are born leaders, some men learn to be leaders.

Personally, I am hindered in my career because I am always the guy to kick back at management on behalf of the employees. I tend to speak out about BS. However, this does not lead to me being promoted. Men who play the game and suck up get promoted. Who is the alpha? Some women pick up on my confrontational attitude to things and really dig it, others want the leader, the top guy, the networker.

Alpha/beta is situation based. I am a beta in a gym rat dynamic. Put those guys with a load of intellectual women discussing the nuances of Tchaikovsky's music, or the works of Hume ot Kant, and I would be Alpha, I would boss their ass.

That blonde he is with, really, she's nice, if I had his money.....I know women in real life I would fvck before her. Is she alpha? Is she HB10? All in the eye of the beholder. However, some things are just universally cool. He could pull 99% of women, yet that blonde chick could pull me. Doesn't mean either are objectively "THE BEST".

 

[Prodoge]

In my eyes he probably is not alpha. He has status because of his talent, but put him in a room, with like mentioned before, 100 or 1000 other people who don't know who he is, would he be seen as alpha? Probably not.

I believe an true alpha can make people see him as leader only with the way he makes them feel based on his behavior without them knowing anything about him.

An example is you take this guy to some province in china they would probably think who the F. Does that guy think he is. Whereas they might have still for example have the village oldest who they see as wise and maybee there intellectual leader.

Anyway that was my 2 cents on the subject.

 

[zekko]

If he's not an alpha, I don't know what is. He's young, he's famous, he's athletic, he's fit, he's rich, he's at the top of his profession. He ticks every box for a guy whom women will find desirable.

To, the point of the alpha is that he is a top guy with a top SMV, a guy that women will want to make their girlfriends jealous. Who cares what he would be like around a bunch of people who didn't know who he is? That's not his world. He has looks, money, fame, skills, and status. What more could you get?

 

[Julian]

@zekko plenty of men have it all and lose it...look at all the stars who have fallen. jonny depp comes to mind.

the point is no one knows if this guy is alpha or not unless you know him personally or saw how he interacts with the world on his own. he for sure hit lifes lottery in alot of ways but you dont know what his mind or his heart truly holds.


judge not lest ye be judged..

 

[zekko]

@zekkothe point is no one knows if this guy is alpha or not unless you know him personally

At its core, this thread is about what the definition of alpha is. I believe totally 100% completely that alpha is a position. Not a mindset.

Girls want the alpha because they want the top guy. It's hypergamy. PUAs try to mimic the top guy by taking on the mannerisms, mindset, and attitudes of a guy with options. This guy has options.

A mindset can help you get to the top, but if you're not actually at the top (in some way), you're not an alpha.

 

[SteR]

If he's not an alpha, I don't know what is. He's young, he's famous, he's athletic, he's fit, he's rich, he's at the top of his profession. He ticks every box for a guy whom women will find desirable.

To, the point of the alpha is that he is a top guy with a top SMV, a guy that women will want to make their girlfriends jealous. Who cares what he would be like around a bunch of people who didn't know who he is? That's not his world. He has looks, money, fame, skills, and status. What more could you get?

I don't think he's alpha. I cringe every time I use that word, because it's usage is completely retarded nowadays but I feel alpha is almost synonymous with 'leader' ie. others choose to follow him. Just because a guy has high status doesn't make him a strong leader that others want to follow. Of course my definition might be slightly different from what most believe.

At its core, this thread is about what the definition of alpha is. I believe totally 100% completely that alpha is a position. Not a mindset.

Girls want the alpha because they want the top guy. It's hypergamy. PUAs try to mimic the top guy by taking on the mannerisms, mindset, and attitudes of a guy with options. This guy has options.

A mindset can help you get to the top, but if you're not actually at the top (in some way), you're not an alpha.

Agree with you on this. You can tell yourself you're alpha until you're blue in the face but unless others buy into it you're kidding yourself.

 

[zekko]

Just because a guy has high status doesn't make him a strong leader that others want to follow.

He's got people following him around with bags of money that they want to give to him.

I almost feel like I'm missing something here. I'm not a soccer fan, so I have no idea who this guy is. Is there some negative associated with him that I'm not familiar with? He does a lot of the things this forum tells you to do. He has a mission, he has a passion. He's turned that passion into a huge moneymaking machine. He takes care of his body. He's self improved to the point that women are going to come to him. I don't see what the downside is here.

 

[SteR]

He's got people following him around with bags of money that they want to give to him.

I almost feel like I'm missing something here. I'm not a soccer fan, so I have no idea who this guy is. Is there some negative associated with him that I'm not familiar with? He does a lot of the things this forum tells you to do. He has a mission, he has a passion. He's turned that passion into a huge moneymaking machine. He takes care of his body. He's self improved to the point that women are going to come to him. I don't see what the downside is here.

I don't think there's anything negative to know about him... at least no more than any other professional sportsman. I think the issue I'm trying to get at is that just because you have a very in demand skill, it doesn't make you an alpha male. Again, I'm just going by what I interpret it to be.. but I can think of so many athletes/celebrities that have had all the status you could want, but off the field or out of their particular skill they've been complete dirtbags/idiots. So I see some conflict, because IMO in order to be considered an 'alpha' you have to have the respect of everyone around you.

I mean think of someone like Justin Bieber: He has all the status/admiration of people around him, but if you didn't know he was famous and you were in a room with him, would you consider him anything special?

Don't get me wrong, status is definitely part of it, but there seems to be something more that's required.. but this may be my personal interpretation.

 

[zekko]

I can think of so many athletes/celebrities that have had all the status you could want, but off the field or out of their particular skill they've been complete dirtbags/idiots.

I don't think there's any requirement that an alpha not be an idiot or a dirtbag. For a long time here, "jerks" and "@ssholes" were held in high esteem as male role models here. Men on death row were said to be the ultimate alphas. I don't think an alpha male is required to be perfect.

As for Justin Bieber, he's a teen idol type. We're dealing with admiration on an adolescent level. I'm sure many young girls would think he was cute, even if he wasn't famous. But the fact is he is famous, and you can't change that.

 

[taiyuu_otoko]

The biggest problem with coming up with an actual DEFINITION of "alpha," especially including real world examples is that FEW MEN will EVER be alpha.

So long as everybody keeps "alpha" as some undefined term, everybody can PRETEND (with plausibility) that they can SOMEDAY, be "alpha."

Or in some respects, they "are" alpha (at least in their own minds according to their own vague definitions).

Since most guys will never be rich, never be high status, never be anything other than they are, they will never DEFINE "alpha"

Because defining SOME OTHER GUY as "alpha" is simultaneously defining oneself as BETA.

And cognitive dissonance will not allow that.

 

[zekko]

The biggest problem with coming up with an actual DEFINITION of "alpha," especially including real world examples is that FEW MEN will EVER be alpha.

Yeah, I think the reason PUAs try to define "alpha" as a mindset, is because that allows basically everybody to become alphas. Just read the forum, follow Pook's advice, have some confidence in yourself, and poof you're an alpha.

Having the right mindset is valuable, and can make you a masculine man. But as you say, by definition, only a small percentage of men can be alphas.

 

[resilient]

Having the right mindset is valuable, and can make you a masculine man. But as you say, by definition, only a small percentage of men can be alphas.

Correct... so we need a name/term between alpha and beta, because I surely don't want to go back to repeating my beta ways of past relationships with the next chick. Don Juan? The right blend of alpha/beta... hmmm....

 

[zekko]

Correct... so we need a name/term between alpha and beta, because I surely don't want to go back to repeating my beta ways of past relationships with the next chick. Don Juan? The right blend of alpha/beta... hmmm....

DJ would certainly be appropriate. When I think about having the right mindset though, what others call the alpha mindset, I always just think of it as a masculine mindset. That's really all you need. I have always argued that whether you are alpha or beta, you should still be able to dominate a woman. That is the natural way.

 

[SteR]

DJ would certainly be appropriate. When I think about having the right mindset though, what others call the alpha mindset, I always just think of it as a masculine mindset. That's really all you need. I have always argued that whether you are alpha or beta, you should still be able to dominate a woman. That is the natural way.

Yea that's what I've always thought too. I hate using the term 'alpha', it seems almost cartoonish.. but it's a term used so often that it feels necessary to use. Plus I don't think it really matters in one-on-one relationships: I think that's what the masculine mindset is all about. Alpha just seems to be a term flung about when trying to understand your position in relation to others.

 

[taiyuu_otoko]

Alpha just seems to be a term flung about when trying to understand your position in relation to others.

Plenty of studies show that when you stick a bunch of strangers in a room, they WILL organize according to a hierarchy. It seems that humans can't NOT "judge" who is the dominant "human" in any group.

I think it's valuable to know where one "stacks up" among others, for plenty of reasons other than dating. if only for basic situational awareness.

I think to ignore the deeply instinctive hierarchical nature of humans is foolish. At the very least it can help you choose venues to take dates. Standing out as an alpha in the crowd would certainly increase any females attraction. Knowing where that does and doesn't happen is more useful knowing than trying to ignore.

For example, that soccer player would be an idiot to take his date on a boat party filled with vicious CEO business types.

On the other hand, a CEO would be foolish to take his girl down to the corner pub to watch the soccer match with a bunch of hooligans.

But humans ARE hierarchical in nature, and everywhere you have a collection of humans, there WILL be an "alpha" even if it's only situational.

Not recognizing that or not being aware of that may protect your ego but it's not strategically beneficial.

 

[SteR]

Plenty of studies show that when you stick a bunch of strangers in a room, they WILL organize according to a hierarchy. It seems that humans can't NOT "judge" who is the dominant "human" in any group.

I think it's valuable to know where one "stacks up" among others, for plenty of reasons other than dating. if only for basic situational awareness.

I think to ignore the deeply instinctive hierarchical nature of humans is foolish. At the very least it can help you choose venues to take dates. Standing out as an alpha in the crowd would certainly increase any females attraction. Knowing where that does and doesn't happen is more useful knowing than trying to ignore.

For example, that soccer player would be an idiot to take his date on a boat party filled with vicious CEO business types.

On the other hand, a CEO would be foolish to take his girl down to the corner pub to watch the soccer match with a bunch of hooligans.

But humans ARE hierarchical in nature, and everywhere you have a collection of humans, there WILL be an "alpha" even if it's only situational.

Not recognizing that or not being aware of that may protect your ego but it's not strategically beneficial.

But that's pretty much what I was saying in my earlier posts.. and it's not necessarily dependent on financial wealth/status. I mean you can argue it is dependent on status but that status is subjective.