Introduction with question

[h_roberts]

Hi all.

I've read the sosauve website a few times in the past year, just getting some tips. I never really thought about joining a forum but decided to today.

First, I'm going to tell y'all a little about myself and my situation, but I want to ask y'all to not be judgemental and flame me. I'll admit that I feel pretty pathetic. I ask that you guys as fellow men respect that this is a tough time for me.

I divorced a couple of years ago, I'm 35 and I have a son who I do the right thing by if you get my drift. I work full time and have a very good but not "spectacular" job. I work in an oil refinery in a lab and make $65000+ a year. Of course the ex b1tch gets $750 a month in child support which is paying for her boob job.

Anyway, I spent a year totally swearing off women. I knew eventually I'd have a change of heart, but I just wallowed in my misery. I didn't want the divorce but she cheated and left me for the other guy. My mistake was not being as attentive both sexually and emotionally to her. That's a long story that we might discuss another time.

So, about a year ago I decided to start testing the waters of dating. I didn't have a clue where to start. I don't like bars so much because I'VE ALWAYS FOUND MEN HAVE TO HUNT IN PACKS. I don't know any single men my age to hang out with, and honestly making new male friends can be as daunting as meeting women. So I attempted going it alone with zero results. I also feel bad about having drinks and driving when I'm a responsible parent.

Anyway, I got frustrated, but I also decided to start working on myself. I joined the gym. At the time of my divorce, I was hefty, 5'8" and 235 lbs. Not particularly muscular and small framed. I was too fat and knew it. By coincidence, my son was diagnosed juvenile diabetic (not related to his weight or diet), and I was forced to change my eating habits.

Anyway, I'm now down to 160 lbs and much leaner and am adding muscle allbeit slowly.

Along the way, I've been trying to meet women. At one point I signed up for dance lessons. Just didn't seem to be any attractive single women, lots of women with partners and a few women taking lessons together as friends (suspected dykes)...I got frustrated and abandoned that but have thought about trying it again. I've tried internet dating and even got a lay and a ******* out of it, but the women freaked when I started acting like I liked her. I've been going to a classy nightclub/restaurant that has live bands and attractive girls. The other day I was with a women my age, attractive and petite, who was alone and talked and danced (erotically) and I gave her my number but never heard a word. I know, I should have asked for hers, but I'm so effing tired of women who give me their number only to never answer or play games.

I bought a motorcycle a few months back to give me something else in my life to add excitement and also to be seen as a little more exciting. Eh, it's helped a little I guess but I'm still really waiting for the dividends.

I did finally befriend another dude at that same bar a few weeks ago. Real cool average Joe with a good sense of humor and cleancut. Someone who wouldn't repulse women. We hit it off and wound up at a tittybar. The next weekend we met at the club and left to catch up with some girls, but he got a damn DUI on the way. He wasn't really even drunk or else I would have driven. Just enough to make him scared to blow. its a damn shame. He's kind of trigger shy now about going out and I don't blame him.

OK, thats a rundown of my recent dating experiences. I have a lot of opinions and questions too. I'd like to hear if I'm not alone in this trap. Maybe we can have a discussion. Hell, if someone here is from the Baton Rouge, LA area, maybe I might meet another wing-man LOL!

Here is one problem I face. I didn't grow up here and my family is three states away. I just don't have a large social network and it is very difficult to establish one. My coworkers are generally older, married, or divorced and decidedly opposed to remarriage or "partying". Not many know any women my age to "set me up".

Another problem is my youthful appearance. I'm 35 but often people think I look 21. That isn't an absolutely bad thing, but I really need to add some more muscle to increase my natural masculinity. I have trouble putting on muscle, so I recently bought some estrogen blocker and testosterone enhancer. I hope it isn't a gimmick. Anyway, I find that women are just as shallow as men and are looking at the outside package. The most attractive women are looking at arms and chest muscles. I'm below average in height and have a small frame. Every extra I can add to bulk up in the right places will help.

OK that about sums up me and my dating life. I'll add some more issues if I get replies. Where do you guys meet new women? Is it really feasable to walk up to a strange woman at Wal-mart in the produce section and strike up a conversation? I've sorta tried striking up those impromptu conversations before, only to have women act very uncomfortable, as if a freak is about to rape them or something.

It really is a bummer that this world is not set up more to allow unattached people the ability to mingle in non-alcohaulic settings and get to know one another. Approaching starngers just always seems so akward and useless.

Help! LOL

 

[eDave]

Hello and congrats on getting back out there. I am just beginning my 1 year sabatical from any kind of a relationship as I need to get my circuits firing right again after a lengthy BPD relationship. I hope I make it through as you have.

One thing I wanted to point out to you, as constructive criticism (as I have just learned this the hard way): If you want her, get HER phone number. No other way. You are the hunter. She was never going to call you. I feel your frustration with getting a number, calling and not getting anywhere but really, that is a lot better than handing out your number waiting for one to call you.

Keep on doing what you are doing in regards to where you are meeting women. Sounds like you have tried a variety of ways and places so you are learning what works best for you. Pick up as much dating 'ettiquite' as you can. The women know how a man is supposed to act. So, let's act like men. This site is a virtual database on how it should be done.

Oh, and make sure your age is visible (in your User CP) or your posts will be removed by the Mods.

e

 

[Rollo Tomassi]

Lets start with the standard battery of questions guys in your situation often avoid answering when they start seeking advice in the Mature forum:

How long were you married? (you divorced at 33?)
How long did you date your ex-wife before you did get married?
Did the Ex move in with you prior to marriage, if so what were the circumstances?
How many LTRs did you have prior to meeting her?
Did you date much before this or did you have a series of monogamous relationships?
How old is the Ex?
Was the child planned or "accidental"?
Did you marry the Ex due to the pregnancy? (I think you alluded to this)
Was she a single mother before you married her?


The reason I start with these is because your situation fits the classic AFC just waking up to the severity of his own conditions and the reasons for the decisions he made to precipitate them. Answering these for us and yourself will help you better understand your own frustration and see the patterns and investments you've made that brought you to where you are now. We can cheerlead for you all day long, but it wont help you to de-program the AFC crap you've most likely lived with for the better part of your life. Guys in your situation often get confused, frustrated, bitter or think the cards are against them, right up to the point that they meet a woman they settle for, forgive her misgivings and/or neurosis out of desperation, convince themselves she's a great catch, and then repeat the same AFC cycle that ruined them previously. They backslide and plug back into the Matrix. I don't want to see that happen to you.

 

[L B]

Congrats on working toward changing yourself

Several simple tips came to mind when I read your post.

1. Really research on the "estrogen blocker and testoterone enhancer." Probably the only supplement you should take is mult-vitamin, fish oil, and maybe protein shake if you need add additional meal/calorie due to your workout. Others can disagree, but that's my experience. Perhaps hire a personal trainer for a month or two to learn the basics.

2. Check out the dj bible to establish the good foundation. Find a style that works for you. Also, as you build up your experience, start paying attention to what's going on around you. You're probably seeing several good potentials everyday while doing normal things like shopping, going to work, running errand, or meeting with friends. But you never pay attention to them or know what to do with them.

Good luck and have fun!

 

[h_roberts]

I thank all of you for your comments. It isn't rocket science I know. More than anything I just need encouragement and to feel that I'm not alone. I keep telling myself that a good girl is just around the corner. I don't have a timetable one meeting someone...In fact, I have some financial concerns (still recovering from divorce) that make me a little leary about getting serious with someone. Serious relationships and especially marriage work out better when there are extra funds to establish it and keep the stress level low. I do own my home (albiet mortgaged) so I'm building equity. My car is paid for and my motorcycle is cheap. All that really gets me is the child support and the debt consolidation that I assumed from the divorce. I have a 5-year plan that I'm striving for. Speaking of the child support, I think I inspired another thread when I mentioned my $750/month "extortion/raping" and her implants. LOL

I want to answer some questions posed by Mr. Rollo

>How long were you married? (you divorced at 33?)
I was married 6 years and yes officially divorced at 33.

>How long did you date your ex-wife before you did get married?
I'm ashamed to say that it was a quick dating period. We dated three months but knew each other about 4.

>Did the Ex move in with you prior to marriage, if so what were the circumstances?
Actually, she was in her last semester getting her Masters degree, and I was recently discharged from the military. I was at a crossroads in my life where I could move home to be near my family or go anywhere and do anything. It was "fate" that I met this woman, the first woman I ever really made a connection with. I moved to the town where she was going to school and got a job and moved in with her. We lived together for about two and a half months before we eloped.

>How many LTRs did you have prior to meeting her?
Well, I was 27 when we met. I only really had one "LTR" in the past...(took me a second to figure that abrv. out LOL) It was a girl I dated in High School. Dated her for 6 months. From that point to meeting my ex, I had a few women pass through that I never loved or had any desire to be with for long. But honestly, I was not one to feel comfortable dating unless I knew it was someone special.

>Did you date much before this or did you have a series of monogamous relationships?
See above

>How old is the Ex?
A month and a half older than myself. (Same age, really)

>Was the child planned or "accidental"? ...Did you marry the Ex due to the pregnancy? (I think you alluded to this)

Both to q#1. I'll explain but to the second part first....No, she was not pregnant when we married. I'm not sure how that was alluded to at all LOL.
On the first part, we both very much wanted a kid. **BUT** she had been told (and I know this is a fact) that because of ovarian cysts that she had removed, ob/gyn said she would not likely be able to have a child. Not COULDN'T, but it would be very difficult. Well, we wanted a child and just didn't bother with protection. We said if it happened, it happened. Well, sure enough it happened quickly. She was pregnant within two months of getting married. Honeymoon period was not long at all, which caused stress. I was also working on getting a better job, because I had taken the first thing I could get fresh out of the military. We really got married too soon and with little foundation. Worse, she refused to work and her parents facilitated that by siphoning money to us at every whim, despite her horrible spending habits and lack of dicipline.

Was she a single mother before you married her?
No. But she had been married once before, which I felt at the time was a "plus" because she acted like she knew what she wanted and had her act together.

OK, honestly I know what you are getting at...And it is true. I was almost ready to marry her the minute she gave me some attention. I was 27 and saw my friends already putting kids in school. I was looking "for a life". I was tired of partying and drinking and wasting time. I wanted to put myself into a situation that would help me grow up and find direction for myself. I also wanted a best friend. And I wanted it to be a sexual relationship.

Now, the "afc" abbreviation...Wikipedia says "average frustrated chump"...OK, that makes sense. Yep.

But believe me, I am NOT settling this time around. But see, here's the issue and the reason the "AFC" might repeat the "cycle". It is VERY TOUGH just MEETING eligeable women. For some reason, our society has a built-in mechanism to make forming REAL relationships with people a tough proposition. And I think this is a problem that has only become really bad in the last decade or so. Everyone is WAY TOO EFFIN BUSY to notice anyone else. Women are scared to death of a man showing them interest. The "jerks" out there have almost poisoned the pool of decent women because they only know how to feel comfortable around jerks. That's what they are used to. Plus, women have this strange counter-productive sense of empowerment, this "I don't need a man" attitude that leads many women to be happy partying with the girls and ignoring that a good man might be under their nose. Of course, I don't "need" a woman either, but I sure enjoy it when I have one.

But to get to the point of your comment, yes I can see how it is dangerous to grab the first one that happens along. Honestly, I've had a handful of women that I've gone out with. Three of them didn't get past the first date BECAUSE I DECIDED IT WASN'T RIGHT. The other two I had real interest in, but they turned out to be wishy washy nuts. Another girl I went on a "date" with kept talking about her boyfriend and how this wasn't a date, so I don't count that one. LOL

I'm with you, I don't want to walk into a deathtrap. All I want is to expand my ability to meet and attract women. I figure it's a numbers game. If I go on 3 dates a month, that's 36 dates a year. If half of those dates are different women, that 18 or so different women that I can "sample" to find out if it is a possibility. eventually, you'd think I'd meet a "good one" that would convince me to give it a real chance.

unfortunately, my date frequency is more like one every other month or so. I don't know if this is typical or if I'm just not putting myself out there enough. I want to find a sure-fire place to meet decent girls who are looking for a good, dependable, fun guy. The internet dating thing has for the most part been a disappointment. I'm not looking for a "party-doll" exactly, or a beauty queen, but I'm not looking for a beached whale either. I want someone who is active enough to keep in reasonable shape. Someone who doesn't live for her next burger and fries. On the internet, the competition is so fierce that the just "above average" girls are getting swamped with guys hitting on them. Us "just above average" guys are left in the dust.

Uggh, it is pretty dang frustrating. I see men all over the place walking, driving, dining with women. Where do they meet? School? Church? I tried church but felt swallowed up. Didn't really feel comfortable and being alone in a church is intimidating as heck. never been a church guy anyway.

I mean, are all these average guys hitting on girls in passing and getting digits? Are they meeting at bars and clubs, or through friends? Are they coworkers? I'm unfortunate in that I have an anemic pool of women at work. Especially sucks that I don't work with the public where women would come and go regularly.

OK guys, maybe I'll learn a few tricks from y'all thanks.

 

[mrRuckus]

You no doubt lift with a terrible routine and eat poorly. Everyone thinks they gain muscle slowly but they are doing it wrong. You've probably never even done a squat or deadlift.

And probably shouldn't now since you'd be doing it only to get girls.

 

[h_roberts]

You no doubt lift with a terrible routine and eat poorly. Everyone thinks they gain muscle slowly but they are doing it wrong. You've probably never even done a squat or deadlift.

And probably shouldn't now since you'd be doing it only to get girls.

LOL...well I always expect to get a flame no matter what message board I decide to post to.

Assumptions. I eat three cans of tuna and two chicken breasts every day, along with oatmeal for breakfast, sometimes eggs, an apple for a snack, and whole wheat products as another snack. I also eat two servings of vegatables OR a v-8 juice.

I was in the Army for 4 years and worked out routinely and did all the major excercise routines including squats and deadlifitng. I weighed 170 lbs and was around 15% body fat. This was when I was 23 years old.

But even then, I had a difficult time getting past a certain size and bfi. My frame IS smallish which by turn is harder to add muscle to. My wrists are about as small as I've ever seen on a man my height, yet I do have good biceps, triceps, and forearms. It is just very difficult to get past a certain point for me.

And though I won't lie and say that I'm not getting back in shape to attract women, I can't see how that is a "bad" thing. I mentioned that my son was diabetic. 80% of my desire to get back into shape was based on learning the ramifications of diabetes. I modified my diet all based on my son's diet. It was basically out of necessity. But I admit, once I started seeing results and getting a little more attention from women, I realized that looking good is so much part of the equation. And what is wrong with striving to improve oneself to attract the opposite sex? I would think that is a normal thing to do!

Please though, expand, and please ask questions before making assumptions about me.

 

[eDave]

Yea Ruckus. WTF? Someone doing something positive in their life a threat to you? :moon:

Lighten up.

 

[Phyzzle]

For those who didn't do the math, she lived in a separate town, and they apparently had a long distance relationship for, oh, 14 days before he moved in. So it was a total of six months between first meeting and married and expecting.

Three of them didn't get past the first date BECAUSE I DECIDED IT WASN'T RIGHT.

Just out of curiosity, what was wrong with those three?

 

[h_roberts]

For those who didn't do the math, she lived in a separate town, and they apparently had a long distance relationship for, oh, 14 days before he moved in. So it was a total of six months between first meeting and married and expecting.



Just out of curiosity, what was wrong with those three?

Yes, this is true, except for her living in a seperate town and it being a long distance relationship is stretching things a bit. She was half an hour from my military base. By "moving" to the town, I was discharged from the military just a few weeks after meeting her and was living on-post. I had to move anyway. Like I said, it was a crossroads in my life, and at 27 I had to decide, do I want to go back home (To Tennessee where I grew up) or do I look for something else or somewhere else to be.

Anyway, I'm not defending that my first relationship was a mistake and that I rushed into it. But that's the past. I learned from it. Now, I own my own home, have a great job, and have roots to tie me down to where I live now. I don't have the youthful fear of not having my own life. People make mistakes. Yeah, it was about six months after she met me that we got pregnant, maybe a bit less. That is too fast, but MANY people have moved quicker than that. My mother met my step-dad on a blind date and was married within a month. They're still together and happy after fifteen years. Of course, they were almost 50 when they met and much more knowledgeable of what they want in life than I was at 27.

 

[h_roberts]

Oh, to answer your other question, these other girls were just not for me. One was an internet date and I had seen one picture of her from the neck up. To say the least, the picture was flattering to the point of being misleading. The angle or something. Not to mention that her build was, well, repulsive. I met her for a game of pool and drinks based on the headshot and just couldn't get past these things. I'm not a totally shallow guy, but I think there is someone for everyone and I was not the guy for her and she was definately not the girl for me. No chemistry at all.

Another date was a girl I was introduced to. She was the friend of my friend's cousin. But my friend had never met her. It was at a motorcycle rally that we were introduced. She was 5 years older and fairly attractive, though a tad chunky. She was actually physically someone I found attractive. Manicured nails, nice hair, cute style, makeup. Only problem she lived 1 1/2 hrs away from me. We exchanged numbers and texted/talked for a few days and decided to meet up for dinner, but she stood me up. I sent a text asking what the deal was, and got no reply. A week later she sent me a text saying she wanted to make love. I kinda played it off for a while but eventually replied with "ok, maybe" or something. A few days later she called apologetic about standing me up and wanted to go out. So I made plans to meet her again and texted her. never got a reply from my text and never went out. I got fed up and said to forget it and don't call. Crazy b****

Another girl was just not attractive to me when we began talking. We had dinner and she was as boring as a brick wall. She was a friend of another girl that I'd met on the internet who I was introduced to. I don't think she was really interested in dating someone and still loved her ex. I let it die, she wasn't all that great anyway and not worth pursuing.

 

[Rollo Tomassi]

I was going to give you a run down of issues I think you need to think about, but honestly you sound very self-aware now. That's important because self-analysis is a tough prospect for most people - particularly ones given to a lifetime of ego investments based on social conventions. My concern now is that you keep that self-awareness and understand that in your present state it's very easy to fall back into the trap with the first prospect of consistent sex. One delicate balance a lot of people struggle with is being critical of themselves in a non-abusive way while still using that as an impetus to improve themselves. It's one thing to say "I'm OK with who I am" and be a fat slob, and another to say "I hate myself" and improve from a position of true self-awareness.

As hard as it may seem you have to always strive for self-improvement from a healthy understanding of your own conditions.

One thing I will say that you need to learn is casting off your adolescent social skills and develop a more adult set. I say this because it seems your frustration is rooted in an undeveloped idea of how to approach women. You need to improve your understanding of where women are in their stage of life, how it affects them and how you can use it to your advantage. The concerns and conditions of a 25 y.o. woman and a 35 y.o. woman are night and day. As you've been involved in a deleterious marriage for the past 6 years and then another 2 of "true single" life, this has stunted your maturity in this area. I think it's safe to assume you have much to learn.

However, there is also a lot you need to unlearn. In spite of what you may think, and contrary to what women have conditioned into you, women WANT you to approach them. A Man is the initiator, the decider, the planner. It's this confidence that makes him attractive in the long term. Self-assurance and a bit of ****iness go a long way. If a guy can't muster the courage to approach her, what does that say about his confidence?