Interested in DC training

MindOverMatter

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I've recently hit 220, and am interested in going even further. Only problem is, I've gotten sick of my previous routines and the exercises used. It's all too generic. DC on the other hand seems to incorrporate a lot of new exercises / stretches, which is exactly what I need now. Having tried DC's smyth machine lat pull-up, I've really gotten interested in learning more.

I'm willing to give the DC method a try for about a year ( both training and diet, and yes WA, that means 2g/lbs of protein a day!) once I have all the info I need to get started.

Only problem is, I can't find any info on his training methods. Do you guys have any links?
 

Warboss Alex

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220 on just tuna and ricecakes? Woah. Not bad boyo.

Okay mate, most of the info is on the net, Google for 'Cycle For Pennies' (big article) then go to the Dogg Pound on http://www.intensemuscle.com (brilliant forums) and read, read, read - register there just to use the search button.

I believe extrememass.com has/had the outline of the program in some stickies but I dunno if it's still there or not (I might've got the link wrong too). I started from reading that article and then just read every topic on the Pound to get more specialised info - let's face it man, you know your nutrition and training, so it's just the intricacies of the program itself you need to know (which aren't complicated, just very specific).

You'll find lots of conflicting advice on other sites (basically, other people's takes on DC) but anything you read in the Pound is the genuine article.

I personally think you'll go VERY FAR on DC mate, and it's all about keeping those treasured abs of yours while getting bigger at the same time, so I reckon you'll enjoy and benefit from it greatly.
 

MindOverMatter

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220 on just tuna and ricecakes? Woah. Not bad boyo.
I wish heh, it would have definetly been cheaper. My diet was built around chicken breasts from priceclub/costco. a box with 30 pieces inside runs about $25 CDN. I buy 2-3, lasts me over a month. The main thing I had going for me was consistency, never missing a workout or meal. If you can be consistent with your eating, you can make gains off any routine.

As for DC, It's definetly worth a shot at this point.

So far I've found these two:

http://www.anabolicextreme.com/Anabolic/new_archives/anex_archive_issue77_pen.asp
http://www.anabolicextreme.com/Anabolic/new_archives/anex_archive_issue76_dog.asp

and the extreme stretching (my fav part that I'm looking forward to once this rest week is complete) http://www.intensemuscle.com/showthread.php?t=9527

Few Qs:

1.) So the routine would basically be

day 1(mon): chest / shoulders/ tris/ back width / back thickness
day 2(wed): biceps, forearms, quads, hamstrings, calves
day 3(fri): same as day 1, but different exercises
day 4(mon): same as day 2, but different exercises
day 1 (wed)
etc
etc

and keep repeating till I do 16 days total, then take a rest for two weeks?

2.) the exercises themselves...multiple warm-up sets, followed by 1 intense (fast positive, slow negative) set to failure, followed by some rest-pause reps, followed by some extreme stretching?

3.) the eating. I got the 2g/lbs of bw protein down, but what carb / fat intake does he suggest?

4.) I noticed on intensemuscle.com that he recommends light 45-60 min cardio in the morning as opposed to HIIT cardio. Is this for offdays, or everyday? Full or empty stomach?

I've usually done cardio in the evenings HIIT style with some carbs inside me to fuel it, but I want to do everything by the book here.
 
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Warboss Alex

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Yeah, those are the articles I started off from as well, more or less, then just refined the knowledge with reading in the Pound. After a while you get used to it and do it mechanically.

(DISCLAIMER: that the answers here are just my understanding of DC, I'm not pretending I'm Dogg or IH or a certified trainer in DC, this is just how I do it - and it's working extremely well for me)

1. Yeah, you basically have six workouts, three for upper body minus biceps/forearms and three for lower body and biceps/forearms. So you need three exercises for each muscle, and you cycle through these; in two weeks you'll have done all six workouts (training 3 days a week) and done all exercises once.

You don't rest after 16 days, basically you 'blast' (go balls out, trying to increase weight each time) for 6-12 weeks (they recommend 8 and see how you handle it, if you can go on for longer do longer) and then take a 'cruise' for two weeks - this is two weeks where you drop a meal (to get your appetite back) and train with straight sets (no rp) at about 90% of your max weight, if you want to skip a workout or two feel free, this is to get your mental and physical sanity back. A lotta guys do specialised routines like 6-week blasts and 10-day cruises but they're generally trained by DC or IH, I started with 8 weeks blast, two weeks cruise, then it went to 7 weeks, 2 weeks and has stayed around there since. If you feel like you gotta stop earlier, stop earlier, this program borders on overtraining if you don't eat and rest properly so it's best to stop before you burn out (as is sensible).

The key is progression (extra weight) so every two weeks you're cycling through your exercises again, so for every two weeks of blast you've got a chance to beat the logbook on each exercise and that's where growth happens.

2) Each exercise is as many warmups as you feel you need, then one rest-pause set which is the workset. Like you warm up, then hit the exercise until failure, 15 deep breaths, hit it again until failure (you should get half the reps or thereabouts), 15 more deep breaths then one more set (again, half the reps of the previous mini-set). Then you stretch, you can stretch after the exercise or after a few related exercise, like I do bicep workset, forearms workset, then stretch biceps and forearms (makes sense to me). You can do chest/triceps/shoulder worksets and then stretch all three bodyparts or stretch the muscle in question after its exercise, either way works.

Incidentally not all exercises are rest-paused, only chest, shoulders, triceps, biceps, backwidth and some hamstring exercises; calves and forearms are straight-setted for 12 reps; other exercises have their own protocols. Quads are one heavy set (4-6 if a squat, 6-10 if a leg press or hack squat) and then a 20 rep widowmaker, incidentally Dante has often said that you don't have to do the widowmaker on the same exercise as the heavy set, like you can do free squats for 4-6 and then hack squats for your 20 repper. (he said that 'cause really big guys have problems breathing for 20 rep free squats but it doesn't just apply to them); deadlifts and rack deadlifts are 6-8 heavy, 3-4 heavier (50-60lb difference for me but I doubt that's absolute); bent rows and t-bar rows are a straight set of 12; sumo leg press is a 12-20 straight set, leg curls are 20-30 rest-paused, SLDL to be honest I'm not sure, I've seen conflicting advice, one is a straight set of 12, the other is to do six reps, and keep adding 10lbs to the bar until you can't get six, then next time start around 40lbs under the weight that stumped you.

Other muscles get a rep range in which your rest pause set must come under, for chest and shoulders it's 11-15rp, triceps it's 11-15rp (except skullcrushers which is 15-30 rp), biceps is 15-20 (preacher curls 11-15rp), back width (pulldowns etc) and dips are 15-20rp, err, what've I forgotten..

If you search for 'DC Exercises' on the site you should get the list in one post.

3) The eating is individual, DCers don't count fats, carbs or calories, they go by their hunger, they get their protein down, eat carbs until they're full and take their EFAs. Meals are kept pro/fat or pro/carb but that's individual again, some people don't seperate macros if it doesn't bother them...

DC says you don't count calories because you don't need a magic number of calories each day, and I agree with him, some days you'll need more and others you'll need less. Like today I've eaten like 100g of carbs because I've sat on my arse most of the day, weekdays I eat more like 400. Get the protein in and eat as much as you need to get through the day and work out at peak efficiency.

4) Cardio is individual as well. To start with you do it on offdays and see whether you need less or more to control bodyfat. It's generally low-intensity so as not to intefere with leg recovery. I personally managed HIIT over the summer and still made progress with the 3way DC split (as an experiment) but not if I was training legs twice a week.

For pre-cardio nutrition it's up to you mate, some people have a small whey shake, others BCAAs, others a completely empty stomach.. if you go into the Roundtable forum on intensemuscle and look up the cardio topic you'll see the experts suggesting all of those, I guess you gotta see what works for you.
DC has said BCAAs if you want to gain muscle and lose bodyfat, otherwise whey is just fine.. I go with that personally but sometimes do it on empty.

(Mods, if discussing DC training is prohibited please delete this post, this is just my understanding of it and no way the official way to do things, it's just what I've read on Intense Muscle - after what happened last time I'm trying not to upset anyone again.)
 

MindOverMatter

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Awesome stuff, just what I was looking for. I'm really looking forward to getting started now.

Thanks a lot man.
 

suikeisuru

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I am a trainee of Dante and DC is a fantastic program. He took the DC guides off the net as one of his ex-trainees was SELLING it for profit.
 

Warboss Alex

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No problem mate, glad to help (and even gladder you saw the light re protein consumption :p).

The hardest thing for me to learn was the stretches (before IH made that post), I was doing the shoulder/bicep stretching all wrong, but once I got those downpat and set the baselines for exercises (my first fortnight was spent doing this, plus learning to do rack chins etc), after that it's destroying the logbook every time.

I've made RIDICULOUS gains on DC, especially strength-wise, I mean I'm pushing weight I'd never thought I'd make so easily, repping my deadlift/squat 1rms, it's really a stellar program.

Dave Henry from the Olympia is a DC trainee as well!
 

Warboss Alex

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Metal: don't intersperse it, it won't work, finish your olympic lifting and then put 110% into this program and you'll get brilliant results if you do it right BUT I repeat, take your oly lifting to its point and then come to DC, DC is not a "try it for a few months" program.. because if you try it and don't like it, it means you're not doing it right.
 

MindOverMatter

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Originally posted by Warboss Alex
No problem mate, glad to help (and even gladder you saw the light re protein consumption :p).

The hardest thing for me to learn was the stretches (before IH made that post), I was doing the shoulder/bicep stretching all wrong, but once I got those downpat and set the baselines for exercises (my first fortnight was spent doing this, plus learning to do rack chins etc), after that it's destroying the logbook every time.

I've made RIDICULOUS gains on DC, especially strength-wise, I mean I'm pushing weight I'd never thought I'd make so easily, repping my deadlift/squat 1rms, it's really a stellar program.

Dave Henry from the Olympia is a DC trainee as well!
Lol about the protein. I started eating 2g/lbs about 5 days ago, and it's becoming routine. I basically added an extra protein shake, and doubled my food protein intake. From the looks of it, eating seems to be the easiest part. Only problem with the food really is now that I eat 440g of protein a day, I have to drink way more water, so I basically piss every 20 mins. I feel like an old man lol.

I've practiced just the stretches today (just the form), I'd have to say that lat stretch is like a medieval torture method after 2.5 mins..
 

MetalFortress

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Originally posted by Warboss Alex
Metal: don't intersperse it, it won't work, finish your olympic lifting and then put 110% into this program and you'll get brilliant results if you do it right BUT I repeat, take your oly lifting to its point and then come to DC, DC is not a "try it for a few months" program.. because if you try it and don't like it, it means you're not doing it right.
I mean just doing sets of psuedo olympic lifts, not a full oly lifting routine. And my wrists are so beat up from front squatting during the "one lift a day" routine, that I might drop power cleans and jerks altogether for awhile and just do power snatches for that part of my routine.

Anyways, I did my first bit of DC-style training today... check out my workout journal in a few minutes and I'll have it posted.
 

C00L

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wow 220? you dont look bigger then like 180 for real. You must be like 6'5.
 

MindOverMatter

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it depends on which pic you're looking at. the one where im wearing the sweater, i was 188-190. the one with the front bicep shot is 210 or so, and it's from may. i dont have any new photos since my webcam died. as for height, im 6'2-6'3.
 

Warboss Alex

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Originally posted by MindOverMatter
Lol about the protein. I started eating 2g/lbs about 5 days ago, and it's becoming routine. I basically added an extra protein shake, and doubled my food protein intake. From the looks of it, eating seems to be the easiest part. Only problem with the food really is now that I eat 440g of protein a day, I have to drink way more water, so I basically piss every 20 mins. I feel like an old man lol.

I've practiced just the stretches today (just the form), I'd have to say that lat stretch is like a medieval torture method after 2.5 mins..
Yeah, I get my protein from 4-5 whole food meals (depending on the day, time, etc) and a couple of shakes, as long as you enjoy the food in question (and make it taste nice with spices, condiments) the eating's quite enjoyable, lol.

To be honest I find the bicep stretch to be the most painful; this might have something to do with having big biceps, as far as I've read on IM, the bigger muscle you have, the harder it is to stretch the muscle in question.. and I've found it to be somewhat true, heh.
 

MindOverMatter

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did my first day today, exercises were:

chest - decline db bench press
shoulder - barbell military press
triceps - weighted dips
back width - wide hammer grip pulldown
back thickness - floor deadlifts

so far, the training itself isn't a big change for me, it's very similar to HIT with low sets, slow negatives, and rest pause reps. the extreme stretching is pretty tough tho, but I enjoyed it. so far up to 400g of protein, and i got a meal and a shake left before i go ot bed in a few hrs.
 

suikeisuru

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Originally posted by MindOverMatter
did my first day today, exercises were:

chest - decline db bench press
shoulder - barbell military press
triceps - weighted dips
back width - wide hammer grip pulldown
back thickness - floor deadlifts

so far, the training itself isn't a big change for me, it's very similar to HIT with low sets, slow negatives, and rest pause reps. the extreme stretching is pretty tough tho, but I enjoyed it. so far up to 400g of protein, and i got a meal and a shake left before i go ot bed in a few hrs.
Good job. Today I also worked out the same body parts. Do you do rack chins?
 

MetalFortress

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According to many sources I've read, the extreme stretching after the workouts is supposed to be conducive to the bodybuilder's holy grail - HYPERPLASIA. With the kind of results Dante himself got (from 137 lbs to 303 lbs) and his trainees, it seems it would be impossible for hyperplasia NOT to occur from it.
 

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