I'm sorry I have to rant

[backbreaker]

As some of you know I'm black. I say this to frame this post. I am sick and freaking tired, of black people thinking that because I'm black, that they are going to get some type of discounted rate, some type of special treatment from me or that the second they detect some non whiteness in my voice, they start using all types of slang.

I've been in the business world for almost 8 years now and I can seriously count on one hand the amount of true professional African American business people I have met. Mind you I deal mostly with entrepreneurial, so I assure you I have met some pretty classless white, asian and other races as well but from my experience man, my race is killing me.

The most professional black guy I know is fruiter than a box of fruit loops, but the guy does what he says he is going to do, takes his work seriously and is professionally courteous

Professional courtesy is something that form my experience, young people don't get, not just black people.

You do not ask me to have my graphic guy spend a full day coming up with a mock-up design for you, then when it's sent decide you want to not answer emails or phone calls for 2 weeks. You know I can deal with not getting a job, I'm not going to get everyone. But the lack of professional curiosity of some people man is just downright appalling.

when it's all said and done this is why most businesses fail. Half of people's ideas are unoriginal, most aren't thought out. then the very rare few that are, most entrepreneurs just don't "get it". no you can't call me for 2 hours a day and dream build with me, and don't get pissy when I tell you that while I think your idea is unique, i do own a business and bills have to be paid, and we don't work for free. Yes, when you tell me you are going to do something I kinda expect it to get done, just as If I tell you i am going to have X done by Y date, you will consider it done because your word is all you have.

Pay your damn bills on time. Nothing is worse than a client that will push you to do work, to hit deadlines, then will payment time comes they are no where to be found. I had another client who sent us a project, after we saved his ass from some piss poor work that a company in india did, hit the ORIGINAL deadline for the project, paid for the work, we put it on his server, then he told his Credit card company he did not get the work and got all his money back. It's only a few grand, while i'm pissed about the money it's not even the money that pisses me off really it's that this guy calls himself a professional. Technically that's wire fraud, but its' not worth my time nor effort to try to recoup 2,500 dollars. What goes around comes around both g ood and bad. have a few clients like this, one of them which I do not think is by chance that he has had more failed businesses than I can count. nothing will change until his attitude changes about how he treats the people he works for.

Most people do not understand the golden rule, that you never treat someone differently than you would want to be treated in that situation. This is quite possibly the most important business concept you can ever learn.

I call this the 'apprentice society'. you get a few kids, or young adults who watch a few apprentice shows with Donald trump, and they may have seen boiler room and wall street and think this is how you run a business. get over as much as you can, wheeling and dealing.. you run into that alot. no. Your business will only go as far as the people around you will take it, and you treat everyone around you with the utmost respect and appreciation. you dont' go around ****ing people over or being un courteous

 

[squirrels]

It's really hard for some of us whiteys to respond to this thread without appearing racist. I'll just say this much...I feel sorry for people in your position, who are left with the option of either 1) being professional and doing what it takes to succeed or 2) "keeping it real".

As for the lack of professionalism...I've known people like that. Many of these people will continue to move from business relationship to business relationship until they find someone that will allow them to take advantage of them, either through good nature or lack of spine...then they run that business into the ground. They're like parasites.

I had a buddy who has always into having fast cars. He would take his car to one speed shop, they would start working on it, then he would run out of money halfway through the project. Then when the shop refused to continue working on it, he'd pull his car out of there, badmouth the shop to the entire Internet community, and take it to a different shop. Not to mention the whole time his car was IN that particular shop, he and his friends would stop by and mess around with their cars on the shop's time with the shop's tools, since they were "all friends". Same guy has had about a dozen side-businesses...all of which failed...I wonder why.

Those kinds of people also are very good at putting up a front...the first time you meet them, you'll get the vibe that they're some kind of energetic go-getter with their act together and you'll want to learn more about them...it's a much different picture when you figure out who they REALLY are.

The reason it's so prevalent in younger people is because people who do that kind of stuff don't last. They eventually run out of resources and burn enough bridges that no one wants to deal with them any more.

 

[Bible_Belt]

Most people do not understand the golden rule, that you never treat someone differently than you would want to be treated in that situation. This is quite possibly the most important business concept you can ever learn.

Exactly. I expect to make money off of everyone I take the time to associate myself with, and I never expect anything different in return. The point of business is more about making money for other people than it is for yourself. If you do enough of that, you'll always get paid. Most employees misunderstand that concept as well.

 

[Julian]

danelmadr, pls go.


To me business is business. The only color that matters is green. A definitive and honed ability to read people and knowing the "art of the deal"...Honestly I will never get fked in a business venture or project or deal, why? Because I cover every base from every angle. And I work for myself. The industry Im in is shady and cutthroat. You have to be smart. You cannot trust anyone.

 

[DanelMadr]

danelmadr, pls go.

Yeah I know. My weird sort of insulting sense of humor does not work well on line. Too much of Borat I guess. Shame on me.:nono:

All I wanted to say...azzholes are everywhere. Take it easy or you start disdain people and thanks to short fuse blow off people who could have been saved. Sometimes all it takes is to remind people or business partners that they are out of line. Some wake up and take it. Some don't. Jesus said forgive 7 times before you write them off.

 

[WaterTiger]

Jesus said forgive 7 times before you write them off.

Yeah, but if some one owed Jesus $17,500. dollars He might have said something different.:cuss:

 

[DanelMadr]

Yeah, but if some one owed Jesus $17,500. dollars He might have said something different.:cuss:

He would say: "Thee gonna jerk me around any longer and my 12 companeros gonna crucify ya unholy azz'a....esse"

 

[speakeasy]

I'm a graphic/web designer and I'm having issues with a unprofessional client. I started working on a logo design a couple months ago. I collected 50% down deposit. Went through 7 rounds of designs and revisions. All along the way, he's said he's very pleased with my work. Then I sent in the final logo design for him to sign off on. All he had to do was approve it, I send him the final files and we're done and I get my remaining 50%. Well this guy abruptly stops returning emails, calls and it's been about a month. I texted him and we finally have a meeting set up for tomorrow. I'm seriously pissed at this guy's behavior. I just want to get my damn money at this point and get out of there.

I've also had those clients that keep saying for weeks on end, "the check is in the mail" and then 2 months later you're still calling them asking what happened to the payment.

When you say your client said they never received the files, and disputed it with their credit card, does this mean you had to refund the money to the credit card company? I would've fought that sh*t. Even if I didn't think the money was worth my time, I wouldn't care, the principal alone is worth the time to me. People like that need to be taught a lesson. Besides, $2500 isn't exactly chump change. For some people that could be 2 or 3 months mortgage payments depending on where you live.

 

[backbreaker]

speakeasy i can give you some direct advice here. you can chalk that one up to the game, you aren't getting that money.

i had to learn this the hard way as well.

1. never, unless you worked with a client before, do work if you can provide references, without a deposit.

if i can give you a list of 3 pages long full of references and you still will not work wtih me, that tells me 1. you don't plan on paying or 2. you have trust issues. either or it's not a good client.


A good client has no qualms about making a deposit on a job if youc an prove you are reliable.

not only that, sometimes you get the client that goes out of town every other day and you are sitting there holding your thumbs



2. NEVER, EVER, EVER, EVER, EVER give a client **** until you are paid 100%

think abouit it. AFter he has approved the logo and paid you lol, what reason do you have not to zip the damn psd and jpeg up and send it to him?

all of our work is done on OUR server until paid for and approved by client at that point we will move the site and install on their server. in some cases i've done 80% of the remaining balance until approved by client and made them use escrow for the other 20%


oh, **** escrow by the way. you aren't selling shoes or a car. you are selling a non tangable item. the money doesn't get released until they aer 100% satisfied which will usually end up being when you do 2x more work than you were supposed to do.

When you say your client said they never received the files, and disputed it with their credit card, does this mean you had to refund the money to the credit card company? I

yep


I sent IN A DISPUTE TO american express but the guy paid someone to take his site down while the dispute was going on. nothing i could do about it.

web services are not setup to be handled via CC. if someone wants to get over they can.

i have an amex card and i knew good and well i wasn't going to win. they are too customer friendly.


the most important lesson i learned is that no matter how bad you get ****ed over, dont' blame them, blame you bercuase you decided to do business with them.

I will tell a client in a new york second to **** off when all the warning signs are there that this is a bad client. i know better. you sale so many websites, there is a certain flow to the sales process. antyhing drastically differnet than that is a huge red flag to me. i had a guy that wanted to sit on the phone for 2 hours to go over what was about a 600 dollar job.. no thanks. that would have been the most expensive 600 dolllar job ever. clients who you can't get ahold of before work starts, no thanks.

tjhe client that will start the project in "a few days" but is doing some things.. no thanks. if you are having trouble making a deposit, what is going to happen when we are midway through the site?

the client who makes like 100 revisions to my proposal. i know my proposals are ****ing great. a revision or 5 okay.. 30? you are anal my friend. i had a guy entirely rewrite my proposal which is about 27 pages one day. **** off.

the guy that calls you at night or on the weekend.. weekends i'm flexible on.. i do work on weekends and alot of pepole do. nights not so much. if you can't respect the fact that i'm not at your becon call at all times **** off.

and usually, just like women, that guy who left his last "horrible developer who didn't know what he was doing" lol, more times than not, there are two sides to every story. i assure you more than half the time, that developer wasnt' that bad. i'm very leerry of people who quiet working with reputable developers. i will alwyas ask them who was it they worked with. Ik now most of the players nad if it was someone who i know isn't half bad, bye bye.

 

[speakeasy]

I visited the client today. I got paid the remainder.

 

[search1ng]

did you pound some face in for it?

 

[Jules Verne]

Are you on your own, speakeasy?

Or are you with a design firm?

 

[DanelMadr]

You are pretty spoiled anyway.

Try doing business with French. No one knows how many "qui" actually means "QUI". And no one knows how many minutes have the French hour...for "tomorrow" usually means "Probably next week or the week after" and "Next month" equals to "Never gonna happen."

Or try the Eastern Europe...you sign a deal and next day you wake up and would be happy to have your underpants left. In Russia you won't wake up at all.

The more to the East the more fvcked up it is. Czechs pay you on time or just a day after they should have or never. Poles will pay you in two months after the date at best. Armenians take like 2 years if they gonna pay at all.