If another "Jesus" exposed himself publicly...

[Gimple]

Perhaps a bit of a strange discussion, but I'm curious what people think about it...

Whether you believe there was a Jesus or not and whether or not you believe he performed miracles or if miracles are even possible, how do you think the world -- and especially the government -- would respond if another man started teaching the masses how we could unleash our true potential and performed "miracles" most people think are impossible, like levitation, healing "incurable" conditions, producing concrete forms out of the ether, etc.?

Do you think such a man would be viewed as a threat by today's government, as Jesus was depicted in his day? And if so, what would the reasons be for them viewing him as a "dangerous" person in today's western, civilized culture?

Would they, too, try to have him killed?

Furthermore, if such a man were to make himself known publicly, in what ways do you think it would change the world?

Would it affect the world's many religions? And if so, in what ways? Or would this all depend on the claims or teachings such a man might make?

 

[amoka]

That person is going straight to a mental institution for thorough checkup. And all of his followers must be institutionalized as well.

 

[Gimple]

So you're saying if someone started making lame men walk, causing blind men to see or causing mute people to sing, flying in the air, or turning coal into gold, society's first and only response would be to simply institutionalize him? Really, you think that's the reaction he would get? Hmmm.

 

[Gimple]

This has already been depcited with literary flair in "The Grand Inquisitor".

It's a chapter in "The Brothers Karamazov" by Dostoyevsky. Amazing read.

Might have to check it out. The little of Dostoyevsky that I've read, I loved.

Do you think the depiction in the story was accurate to how people would respond to something like this today, if it were to actually happen?

 

[Chronocidal]

Perhaps a bit of a strange discussion, but I'm curious what people think about it...

Whether you believe there was a Jesus or not and whether or not you believe he performed miracles or if miracles are even possible, how do you think the world -- and especially the government -- would respond if another man started teaching the masses how we could unleash our true potential and performed "miracles" most people think are impossible, like levitation, healing "incurable" conditions, producing concrete forms out of the ether, etc.?

Do you think such a man would be viewed as a threat by today's government, as Jesus was depicted in his day? And if so, what would the reasons be for them viewing him as a "dangerous" person in today's western, civilized culture?

Would they, too, try to have him killed?

Furthermore, if such a man were to make himself known publicly, in what ways do you think it would change the world?

Would it affect the world's many religions? And if so, in what ways? Or would this all depend on the claims or teachings such a man might make?

I doubt it. It's getting much harder to claim "divine intervention" or "miracles" due to our increased understanding of phenomena, and most matters of divinity these days are little more than the "God of the gaps". If this person's allegations withstood scientific scrutiny, he'd be welcomed for having verifiably discovered things that were only legends before. If not, then he'd be demonstrated to be just another charlatan.

I don't see it changing the world's religions any. I would say that a lot of religious matters these days are really more sociocultural identity badges and/or collections of historical obedience rituals than anything else, and existing ones have their advantages in their network effects as coordination goods. They certainly won't install any paranormal capabilities, no matter what their legends say.

Then there's the matter of what sort of things people in a society might actually consider to be "otherworldly"; that most certainly is a function of scientific development and technological availability in society. Transmutation of chemical elements might've been an ancient alchemist's dream, but is old-hat in any matter of chemical radioisotopes. Likewise, openly claiming to hear the disembodied voices of one's friends and family might've gotten one imprisoned as a madman or executed as a false prophet 1000 years ago, but we refer to it as "making a telephone call" today.

So no, if an alleged prophet, psionicist, sorceror, or whatever were to show up in a modern Western society, I don't see him making that big of a difference, or being particularly targeted for violence. If he had discovered things that were in fact what he claimed, I'd suspect that he'd probably be considered a legendary genius.

This has already been depcited with literary flair in "The Grand Inquisitor".

It's a chapter in "The Brothers Karamazov" by Dostoyevsky. Amazing read.

I missed your post, and I never heard of this. I'll definitely check it out next time I get to a bookstore. Thanks.

 

[speed dawg]

Whether you believe there was a Jesus or not and whether or not you believe he performed miracles or if miracles are even possible,

Side point.....It's been scientifically proven that Jesus did exist, perform miracles, was crucified and rose from the dead. Just throwing that out there. No need for your qualifier that I just quoted in bold.

I personally would not listen to anyone who could not perform miracles for everyone to see, like Jesus Christ did. Plus, another messiah was not prophesied like Christ. Christ himself is returning, but no one else will have that type of power, and there are other events that will accompany that so we all know it is true.

There will be false prophets, the Bible foretells that, and many people will listen to them.

 

[Gimple]

@Chronocidal

I'm not suggesting this man would be an "alleged" anything or "allegedly" perform something. He would undeniably actually perform it.

I'm wondering how people (and the rest of the world) would respond to, say, seeing a man perform "miracles" with their own eyes. I mean, if a large group of sober-minded people all witnessed a man flying in the air with just the use of his body -- like Superman -- how many would try to refute it by convincing themselves that they were all hallucinating or what have you?

The fact that a "miracle" was taking place would be self evident. There would be no room for skepticism (at least not from first-hand experience).

@speed dawg

How about we not turn this thread into a religious debate. It would be much appreciated.

Also, you failed to address any of my questions. Any thoughts on them?

 

[Chronocidal]

@Chronocidal

I'm not suggesting this man would be an "alleged" anything or "allegedly" perform something. He would undeniably actually perform it.

I'm wondering how people (and the rest of the world) would respond to, say, seeing a man perform "miracles" with their own eyes. I mean, if a large group of sober-minded people all witnessed a man flying in the air with just the use of his body -- like Superman -- how many would try to refute it by convincing themselves that they were all hallucinating or what have you?

The fact that a "miracle" was taking place would be self evident. There would be no room for skepticism (at least not from first-hand experience).

You mean something like this?

Magicians make their careers out of fooling people's eyes. Anyone might suspect that there's something else going on, or they might not.

Ultimately, my answer is the same. If the claim of paranormal capability survived scientific scrutiny, it'd be welcomed. If not, then it's just entertainment-magic at best or charlatanry at worst.

 

[Stagger Lee]

@Chronocidal

I'm not suggesting this man would be an "alleged" anything or "allegedly" perform something. He would undeniably actually perform it.

I'm wondering how people (and the rest of the world) would respond to, say, seeing a man perform "miracles" with their own eyes. I mean, if a large group of sober-minded people all witnessed a man flying in the air with just the use of his body -- like Superman -- how many would try to refute it by convincing themselves that they were all hallucinating or what have you?

The fact that a "miracle" was taking place would be self evident. There would be no room for skepticism (at least not from first-hand experience).

I believe the mainstream would deny his ability to perform miracles, write him off as a wacky charlatan, and he would be mostly ignored by the mainstream media.

Think about it. The mainstream media denies science all the time that doesn't agree with their agenda. Heck due to PC, science ignores science that doesn't agree with the agenda.

 

[speed dawg]

@speed dawg

How about we not turn this thread into a religious debate.

How the f*ck can this NOT be a religious debate?

I answered your question in the second and third paragraph of my post.

 

[backseatjuan]

https://youtu.be/Wnn8Q6Y4U0g



I guess the new Jesus could tech how world human population must be kept at half a billion.

 

[amoka]

So you're saying if someone started making lame men walk, causing blind men to see or causing mute people to sing, flying in the air, or turning coal into gold, society's first and only response would be to simply institutionalize him? Really, you think that's the reaction he would get? Hmmm.

Yes. I do not believe it is possible for the blinds to see by someone waving a magic wand over their face. That's why if someone claims to be cured by a so called "jesus" from blindness, the two individuals should either be charged for forgery or be institutionalized for mental checkups.

 

[taiyuu_otoko]

Perhaps a bit of a strange discussion, but I'm curious what people think about it...

Whether you believe there was a Jesus or not and whether or not you believe he performed miracles or if miracles are even possible, how do you think the world -- and especially the government -- would respond if another man started teaching the masses how we could unleash our true potential and performed "miracles" most people think are impossible, like levitation, healing "incurable" conditions, producing concrete forms out of the ether, etc.?

Do you think such a man would be viewed as a threat by today's government, as Jesus was depicted in his day? And if so, what would the reasons be for them viewing him as a "dangerous" person in today's western, civilized culture?

Would they, too, try to have him killed?

Furthermore, if such a man were to make himself known publicly, in what ways do you think it would change the world?

Would it affect the world's many religions? And if so, in what ways? Or would this all depend on the claims or teachings such a man might make?

This question was treated within The Brother's Karamazov in a sub story called "The Grand Inquisitor."

Basically Jesus came back during the Inquisition, healed some girl, and the powers that be (then the Catholic Church) threw him straight in the clink.

Clearly, that would happen today.

The State DOES NOT like and WILL NOT TOLERATE their power being questioned.

They killed Him then (according to the story) and they'd kill Him today.

 

[Gimple]

I believe the mainstream would deny his ability to perform miracles, write him off as a wacky charlatan, and he would be mostly ignored by the mainstream media.

Think about it. The mainstream media denies science all the time that doesn't agree with their agenda. Heck due to PC, science ignores science that doesn't agree with the agenda.

Are you so sure?

The mainstream media didn't ignore Mother Teresa, yet this would be a hundred times more extreme.

I mean, if thousands of people are being healed from chronic conditions, families and doctors will know the truth. Once credible witnesses number in the thousands and more and the stories keep coming, don't you think it would start becoming impossible to ignore?

How the f*ck can this NOT be a religious debate?

Because the point of the topic isn't to argue or dispute any religious belief. The point is to get opinions on how the world would respond if someone started performing "miracles" today.

I answered your question in the second and third paragraph of my post.

Did you now? You might want to read my questions and your response again.

Yes. I do not believe it is possible for the blinds to see by someone waving a magic wand over their face. That's why if someone claims to be cured by a so called "jesus" from blindness, the two individuals should either be charged for forgery or be institutionalized for mental checkups.

But I'm not asking whether you believe miracles are possible or not.

I'm asking you to use your imagination.

My questions presuppose that it was actually possible to perform miracles, then asks how you think the world would respond to them and the person performing them.

The Bible is the most recent rendition of mythology. A virgin giving birth to the world's answers? A man who claims to be the King of the Jews? And then millions believing this story?

Mental programming at its finest.

Believe in your own mindset.

Again, I'm not arguing or disputing any religious belief here.

I could have just as easily said Superman instead of Jesus, and the basic questions would more or less stand. But Jesus was showcased as being more powerful than Superman, so I used him.

This question was treated within The Brother's Karamazov in a sub story called "The Grand Inquisitor."

Basically Jesus came back during the Inquisition, healed some girl, and the powers that be (then the Catholic Church) threw him straight in the clink.

Clearly, that would happen today.

The State DOES NOT like and WILL NOT TOLERATE their power being questioned.

They killed Him then (according to the story) and they'd kill Him today.

Nice, a response that understood my questions, and provided an answer.

A few more questions:

How would a man performing miracles and healing the sick question the State's power, or why would they see it that way?

Furthermore, if the government would indeed kill him, how would they accomplish that, say, in Canada where there is no death penalty?

If the government did want to get rid of someone and do it publicly, wouldn't they have to work within the law, probably by putting together a mock trial like they did to Jesus?

Of course, if they did it secretly, I suppose it would just take a hired gun. But wouldn't that just make him into a hero and martyr instead of a dead man with disgraced reputation (as in the case of a mock trial) and be counter to the government's agenda?

Any further thoughts on that?

 

[speed dawg]

LOL. Please link to the scientific journal that validates this claim.

Read The Case for Christ, bruh:

http://www.amazon.com/The-Case-Christ-Journalists-Investigation/dp/0310339308

 

[Gimple]

@speed dawg

I love it when someone blames others and retaliates to compensate for their own inability to examine themselves and recognize, accept and hopefully correct their own faults and errors.

Did you really just negative rep me because you lack the self-awareness to notice what you're really doing, and are too proud to even entertain the possibility that it could be otherwise?

My, my, how Christ-like of you.

I find I often agree with Gandhi: "I like your Christ. I do not like your Christians."

And like I asked you above, would you please stop trying to turn this thread into a religious debate by bringing up more arguments to support your beliefs? If you want to debate your beliefs, I'm sure you can find another place to do it, or start your own thread.

EDIT: I'm obsessive-compulsive about correcting my spelling mistakes.

 

[Embers84]

I'm actually agreeing with speed dawg for once. First of all there, is no point to this thread except to start a Religious debate and fight to solely mock religion. Second, not one of you non believers can show any proof that Jesus Christ did not exist. Third, if you actually took the time to learn anything about Jesus, you would know there are many factors that prove his existence.


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/sci...Turin-Shroud-may-date-from-time-of-Jesus.html

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...8/Turin-Shroud-is-not-a-medieval-forgery.html

 

[Gimple]

First of all there, is no point to this thread except to start a Religious debate and fight to solely mock religion.

Don't religious debates start when someone either starts promoting their beliefs or attempts to disprove a claim someone else has already made?

If you read the OP, neither is present.

The only way this thread can turn into a religious debate is if people start proselytizing, and others respond to it by trying to shred their argument.

I did neither. But you and speed dawg most certainly are.

So I'm kindly asking you to stop, and instead address the actual questions rather than high-jack the thread.

 

[amoka]

@speed dawg

I love it when someone blames others and retaliates to compensate for their own inability to examine themselves and recognize, accept and hopefully correct their own faults and errors.

Did you really just negative rep me because you lack the self-awareness to notice what you're really doing, and are too proud to even entertain the possibility that it could be otherwise?

My, my, how Christ-like of you.

I find I often agree with Gandhi: "I like your Christ. I do not like your Christians."

And like I asked you above, would you please stop trying to turn this thread into a religious debate by bringing up more arguments to support your beliefs? If you want to debate your beliefs, I'm sure you can find another place to do it, or start you own thread.

LOL.. Speed dawg is clearly a jesus lover that bases all of his arguments on the Bible. His kinds are toxic to the society because when you don't agree with them, they take drastic actions against you and they believe the gawd himself is on their side. His kinds are the Christian version of ISIS. Avoid them like a plague. There emotions are fragile like an 8 years old's.

 

[Stagger Lee]

LOL.. Speed dawg is clearly a jesus lover that bases all of his arguments on the Bible. His kinds are toxic to the society because when you don't agree with them, they take drastic actions against you and they believe the gawd himself is on their side. His kinds are the Christian version of ISIS. Avoid them like a plague. There emotions are fragile like an 8 years old's.

How is that really any different than what feminist, communist, liberals do? How is it any different than politically correct? The only difference is their god is the government, their sex or race group, or money etc. These are the groups, not Christians, taking drastic action against people they disagree with and have been during the entire history of the US especially the past 50 years.