I have a problem with affection......

[Epic]

I know some of you are probably going to think I am a wimp by some of the things that I am going to talk about, but it usually helps me to talk about my problems and you guys and your wisdom have changed me for the better, so I figured if anyone could help me it would be you guys. I guess I'll start with what I think caused the problem.

See, my dad was abused mentally as a child. His mom used to lock him up in a room with his siblings with only a pot to use the bathroom in for hours throughout the day, while she had an affair with a man. Because of that and some other things, my dad is nearly incapable of showing affection. He was never really affectionate with anyone, and my mom says it took him awhile to show affection to her. He will tell me that he loves me, but he has been doing it for years so it is basically routine. I know he means it and all, but routine is the only way he is able to do it. I wanted to do things with my father, but he was always out with his friends. My mom shows me affection, but it just isn' t the same and I have just recently noticed the similarites between my father and I.

I used to hide all my feelings and not tell anyone, and it took me years to be able to open up to my friends and I'm just recently becoming affectionate with them. I can hug family members and tell them I love them, but it is the same way with my dad, routine. I mean, I hugged my sister last year for the first time ever, and it felt good to hug her, but at the same time uncomfortable. I have never been in a serious relationship before, I have finally got the nerve to start asking girls out, but after that it all goes down hill. The first and last girl I dated, I talked to her mostly on the phone because she lived 45 minutes away. I could talk to her on the phone fine, but when it came to actually touching her I froze up. Kino is really hard for me to do, it makes me very uncomfortable, most of the time I keep my hands in my pockets. I tried to just put my arm around her once, and I couldn't handle it. We were watching a movie and it took me 30 minutes to do it, and by the time I actually got my arm around her I started sweating and shaking, I just couldn't take it. After a while, I realized that the relationship was going nowhere, I couldn't touch her and I couldn't talk to her about anything really meaningful, so I just stopped calling. She got the hint, and moved on. That was last year. I have asked one more girl out since then, but I found out she boyfriend. (She was a little easier for me to talk to because she is my friend's sister)

Now, my cousin is trying to set me up with this 19 yr old girl. I haven't seen her yet, but my cousin told me she is very beautiful, nice, and fun to be around. My cousin told her about me so she wanted to meet me. I have her number now, and I began waiting a couple of days to call, and now that the waiting time is up, I'm afraid to call. I started thinking about what happened with the last girl and I'm afraid it will happen all over again.

That was when I realized I had the same problem as my dad. I don't want to be like that though. I want to call this girl, but it is very hard. I don't know what to do, do any of you have any advice? And Please, PLEASE, do not tell me to read the bible, I have read it dozens of times, and it has helped me a lot so far, but I haven't read anything in it that can help me with this problem.

 

[lollipop]

You have to overcome your fear. It could take time. Don't expect miracles. Just do it, don't think about the consequences. One other thing: DON'T DRINK ALCOHOL.

You already made a big step, you can take it to the next level.Be proud of what you already achieved.

 

[LouieVaton Don]

You know you got issues right? I was raised in a similar enviroment, I bet you and your father dont even talk or spend quality time together. He never taught you how to be a man or anything like that did he? I know full well what your going through you have issues that go way beyond being a DJ. You know what, just check out the links below.



http://www.tljones.co.uk/apd/apd.htm



http://www.gospelcom.net/narramore/bk_124_avoidant2.htm


http://search.msn.com/pass/results.aspx?q=avoidant+personality&FORM=SMCRT

 

[bp1974]

Ok, here's something practical you can try. It may not be appropriate, because I don't know what your relationship with your sister is like, but I'm assuming that it's basically good, and that if she can do something to help you, she will.

I think it's great that you're aware of your difficulties with affection and also have an understanding of where it comes from too. In my experience, when someone shuts off their affectionate side, like you said it's because they didn't experience the affection they needed in childhood. Now this is likely to have produced a whole lot of effects around self-esteem, feeling unloved etc. I'm going to take a guess and say that I imagine one of the things you want most in the world is to be able to touch someone or hold them, and for them to want to do that for you too.

So, here's a first step. It will feel risky, awkward and unnatural, but if it's appropriate and you're prepared to do it it will help. All new behaviour feels wrong at first, because it goes against the way you've lived up until that point.


- Ask your sister to hold you.


That's all.
Just say to her "I really want someone to hold me right now - would you?".

This does the following:

- Challenges you to admit what you want and to ask for it from someone you trust
- Challenges you to admit you have a soft side that needs affection. This is the first step to letting that affection-side out into the open, rather than leaving it hidden away with all the sadness.
You'll never be able to give affection to others until you can enjoy receiving it yourself.
- You may not be used to the idea that when you ask someone for something you need, more often than not they will be happy to give it to you. This is why it's a risk - you may feel like you're opening yourself up to total rejection.

It sounds simple and a small thing, but if I've read your situation correctly, it'll seem frightening, difficult almost beyond words, and you'll make up any excuse to not do it. If you find that you do have these reactions, then that's a clue that it'd be a really good thing for you to do.

bp1974

 

[PlayerinTraining]

bp1974
So, here's a first step. It will feel risky, awkward and unnatural, but if it's appropriate and you're prepared to do it it will help. All new behaviour feels wrong at first, because it goes against the way you've lived up until that point.


- Ask your sister to hold you.


That's all.
Just say to her "I really want someone to hold me right now - would you?".

This does the following:

I haven't posted here in a long time, but since I can relate to the poster on a deep level, I thought I'd give some advice.

I his heart is in the right place, but that advice from bp1974 sounds EXTREMELY weird to me.

A guy with a problem of expressing affection is ashamed that he needs it. Accepting affection in the way suggested is doubly shameful because of the incestuous overtones, and the fact a guy is supposed to be "strong", but asking for support from a woman is "weak."

Learning to receive affection from a female relative doesn't necessarily translate into creating affection in an unfamiliar female from outside the family.

If you haven't learned to express affection in your family at this point, I'd advise looking elsewhere.

I suspect this guy COULD express affection if he felt it was highly likely to be returned.

But when dealing with women who you don't know very well, you have to give first in order to receive.

I'd suggest you put yourself in a situation where it is normal to get in close physical contact with a woman--esp. a salsa or swing dance class. You will learn more about the male role in the "mating dance" than the DJ bible can tell you.

Trust me on this.

 

[bp1974]

Does it sound so weird? Maybe to you it does. Why is it incestuous? A hug is just a hug, right? It's not sexual, it's about affection. If you've got sexual shame mixed up with a fear of general touching then that's a different issue - human contact isn't all about sex, sometimes it's just about the contact.

I did say that it depends on what kind of relationship he has with his sister, but as far as I can tell, most people like to make contact with each other, especially those that they're closely related to. So this would only be inappropriate if their relationship was not very good, or she was a lot younger than him. And something I didn't say but should have is that whether it's his sister or not isn't important - I only said to ask her because I assumed she's someone he has a good relationship with. It could just as easily be a good female friend (that he's not interested in) or similar.

Challenging the idea of a strong man never needing emotional support is exactly the point for someone who wants to be able to give affection but can't bring themselves to.

I'll say it again, the key to feeling free to give affection without fear, is to first learn to ask for and receive it without fear.

bp1974

 

[Matt ala Casanova]

Maybe he should ask his mother to hold him.

M.A.C.

 

[Oscar Wilde]

Wow, damn it's a pretty sad society some people are in if the first thing they think of is incest when a guy hugs his sibling.

Hugs are good - start hugging everyone - family, friends (yeah you can even give your male friends a big ol' hearty slap on the back when you haven't seen them in months).

Unless you live wherever Player does. YMMV.

In Nepal and parts or most of India it is acceptable for 2 male friends to hold hands walking down the street. It is NOT acceptable for boyfriend & gf to show such affection for each other in public in the same places.

Osc.

 

[PlayerinTraining]

Wow, damn it's a pretty sad society some people are in if the first thing they think of is incest when a guy hugs his sibling.

Hugs are good - start hugging everyone - family, friends (yeah you can even give your male friends a big ol' hearty slap on the back when you haven't seen them in months).

Unless you live wherever Player does. YMMV.

Dude,

Insulting comments aside, your post shows you can't relate to this guys problem. He has a dad who was unable to show him how to express affection to a woman, or even that it is permissable to express affection. That WAS his initial problem.

I don't like to dwell on past problems. Playing the game of "psychiatry", where you try to explain the present by the past, is usless, IMHO.

No one has shown him how to play the MAN'S role in the mating game, as contradictory as it is in American culture. That IS the CURRENT problem.

Begging for a hug from a woman, even if it is a relative, won't solve it.

You have a young guy who has trouble showing SEXUAL ATTRACTION and affection to a woman, and the first thing you suggest to him is to ask his sister for a hug like a little boy who scraped his knee?

Am I the ONLY ONE who thinks that is something a wuss would do?

While I don't agree with a lot of the stuff that passes for being an "Alpha Male", this just advice doesn't sound right to me.

You don't ask a WOMAN on how to play the MAN's sexual role.

But, I suppose your support for this PC advice, which is well intentioned, but way off the mark, makes you immenently qualified to be an audience member on Oprah or Jenny Jones.

You go girl!

 

[Oscar Wilde]

Insulting comments? Wtf?

I posted what I believe to be just plain fact - some cultures accept it, some don't.

For example my culture is much friendlier to strangers than the worldwide norm - I live in Ireland, that's the way it goes down.

Yours probably isn't, according to both what I've heard said (here and elsewhere) about the US East and what I've experienced the times I was there. Perhaps this is not the case if you're first generation Irish, or similar culture, living there.

No insult intended, I'm sorry you took it that way.

I get his problem, I just don't agree with you. This isn't about acting DJ vs Wuss etc. And it's not some Freudian problem where we can relate it to his Oedipus complex or incest. It's about getting comfortable with people and affection. Just like the boot camp is about getting comfortable with rejection.

Osc.

 

[stewartlittle]

Epic,

I know what you mean. My parents can not deal with emotions, this has to do with the way they were raised by their parents. They never said anything positive and they did not show any affection. I can tell you that it makes you feel very worthless. Now as I become older I began to notice that I find it very difficult to say you care about someone or love them. I find it very difficult to give someone a hug, I prefer not to.

I try to be more open emotionally, I notice that family, friends appreciate that. But if something bad happens, then I shut my emotions down. At school thay called me ice man, I never showed my emotions, because I did not know better.

The fact you are aware of this, is quite a step. It will be a long road to act 'normal' and I believe that it takes enormous effort to change.

I wish you a lot of succes and hope that this habit will change.

 

[bugsquish]

I hug all my friends and family male or female. And sometimes strangers too. If people think I'm a wuss or whatever then that's their problem. I'm quite comfortable with my sexuality. Human contact is necessarry for normal human development. Unnecessary stigma attached to that contact is not.

Getting used to hugging your sister/mother/friends will definetely make it easier for you to form meaningful relationships with a girl and have physical contact to her. It's just the same as the bible saying "practise your communication skills on ugly/older women, men etc." before moving onto hot babes. Get in the practise then you'll be better equipped and feel more comfortable when the time comes.

Don't let any small minded stigma put you off. You don't need to be the "alpha male" at this stage, because you have this very real issue to deal with before you start learning the finer aspects of being a DJ. Once you are more comfortable with human contact, the rest will come naturally. Just believe in yourself, be patient, and push your new habits forward consistently.

 

[Epic]

Thanks guys. I feel better now that I know what's wrong with me. You made me realize that there are other people like me.

LouieVaton Don and Stewart Little: You guys described some of the other feelings I have felt perfectly.

LouieVaton Don: I read your links and I have most of the symptoms associated with Avoidant Personality Disorder. Thanks for making me aware of such a disorder. Now that I know what I have, I can seek treatment for it.

To Everyone: Thanks for your advice guys. You all helped me see some of the deeper causes of my problem and now I believe that I can be helped. Most of all I'm thankful that you all cared enough to help me. It really made me feel better. I cannot express in words how much that means to me. Thank you for being my friends.

 

[BrWnSugaMan]

Epic,

I understand where you are coming from. I had similar problems growing up, and now when I hug my parents (on rare occasion) it feels like I am hugging a stranger!

The advice that most people gave "sounds good", but that is all it is. You have had this problem your entire life and just because some guy here tells you to start small and work your way up - it will NOT do a single thing for you except give you temporary relief. We both know that next week you will have the same problem.


There is a critical period in a childs' life at a very early age when he/she needs alot of affection and care from the mother/father. When a child does not recieve such care, the child develops many problems associating with fellow peers and forming relationships in the future.

Let's first figure out the cause...you pretty much have this down:

A famous psychological study was done involving rhesus monkeys. Researchers put monkeys into two groups: one with parental nurturing at a young age and one without. They followed the monkeys throughout their lifetime and observed social skills. The monkeys who were raised with parental nurturing were able to associate normally in society, those without could not associate with other monkeys, they were easily dominated by the other monkeys, and would become irritated/confused/awkward when trying to interact with fellow peers. Because of moral implications...researchers cannot try such an experiment on humans, but they can observe situations in which people grew up in emotionally deprived families. The outcome replicates the EXACT results of the rhesus experiment.

Let's figure out the "solution" - I know you don't want to here this, but there may not be a solution.

Research has shown that during the "critical phase of emotional dependency" a child must recieve much love and learn how to give and recieve it. If the child does not develop this skill during the critical phase, then it will be impossible to accomplish later on in life. For example, think about learning a new language. It becomes increasingly difficult to learn a new language once you have passed the critical phase of language development in your youth - research has proven this. Same thing with emotional skills etc. You are a product of your enivronment.

The problem you face is like many others: alcoholics, drug abusers, child molesters, etc. In your mind something says, "Hey, I know I want to change...I know I want/need to change for the better. There is something lacking in my life and I really really want to change." But at the end of the day you are not one step closer. You are just like the alcoholic...still getting drunk...you are like the drug abuser...still getting high...you are like the child molster...still molesting.

I'm sorry to tell you this, but unlike drug abusers/alcoholics/child molesters the chances of curing this isvery rare. Think about it...I'm assuming you are around 19-21 years of age b/c the girl you are possibly dating is 19. Now, during the past 19 or so years you have definately noticed the problem and you have taken steps to solve it...but where are you today? On this forum still trying to figure it out! As you can see...you are not better off today than when you were first neglected, except for the fact that you have identified the problem. I applaud you for this because there are many people like you out their you have no idea what is causing such feelings of despair/ lack of affection, etc.


The next step from here is to go and have a "Psychological Analysis" done by a PSYCHOLOGIST not a PSYCHIATRIST.

There is a fine line between a psychologist and a psychiatrist. Psychiatrists will try to "hop" you up on medications, which is only putting a band-aid over the problem. Once you get off the medication, the problem will return.

You should go see a psychologist - a reputable one. These guys really do know what they are talking about and will help you figure out your problems and the neccessary steps to get where you need to be. Also, try finding a support group in your area with people who can identify with your problem.

 

[bugsquish]

Originally posted by BrWnSugaMan
It becomes increasingly difficult to learn a new language once you have passed the critical phase of language development in your youth - research has proven this.

But not impossible, as you had tried to suggest. Epic was feeling quite happy with his ability to break through his barriers. Any habit is changeable or learnable unless it's genetic. Plus, he got affection from his mom as you would see from reading his post.

EDIT: OK BrWn you changed ur post, looked a bit bleak before

 

[Boricua_33015]

fvck I think you guys just made me come up with a really big realization. Now I have come up with another reason why I could be the way I am.

My mother NEVER showed me affection. She was always in a bad mood. She would always give me cold looks. We were always constantly mad at each other. For years this crap went on. We never said anything loving to each other. Whenever I would think of my mother I would think of her as the biggest b1tch of life. Im serious. She has such a negative aura that it is impossible to talk to her. Everything about her is negative. Her favorite color is black. Even when I have tried to joke around with her she would literally me "nothing you say is funny so don't even try it". I could go on and on but basically what Im trying to say is that this negativity just shed on to me. I grew up to be the most negative and shyest mutherfvcker in probably in all my schools.

This thread really got me thinking. Alot of how people are has to do with the way they were brought up.

Im going to read those links LouieVaton Don posted.

 

[LouieVaton Don]

To BrnSugaMan: Way to stomp all over the kids spirit. Real smooth.

 

[DjDreamer]

Everyone has problems.

No one is perfect...

Your affection skills will increase when you practise showing affection so you and your girlfreind need to touch eachother untill you get it right

 

[Epic]

Well, I understand what you are saying BrWnSugaMan, but I don't think that fixing my problems are impossible. I believe now that I may be able to fix this problem as long as try hard to fix it. I used to be worse than this though. The more I tried to get better at being affectionate the better I got. Although, it wasn't that much better, it's better than nothing. bugsquish is right, by saying that it makes me happier. You may be right, it might not be fixable, but that still does not mean that I won't try. Also I'm 17 and turning 18 on August 3rd.

 

[bugsquish]

17 is pretty young, you got plenty of time to work on it. I have been seriously depressed for most of my life and only in the past few months (since I found this site) I found the direction and willpower to start the healing process. I was convinced I was beyond help. Once I believed I could get better, it started to happen. I know you have a different problem but I think the principle is the same. I have never felt better because I know I will never give up.