I done fugged up! Chick *wanted* an AFC!

[Bonhomme]

Well, perhaps an above average frustrated chump. Or a skillful seductionist who with an approach that renders neediness irrelevant?

This is a long post a la Master of the Universe, but you may find it amusing enough to be worthwile.

There's this interesting, reasonably cute gal I've run into with her friends often, and she's shown some signs of attraction for me. In fact, she approached me first, and invited me to hang out with her friends at her place. They're a pretty artsy lot, and they'd all seen me around a lot, and were intrigued by my style. When we hung out, I dodged questions from some of the gals about my age (I still don't think they realize I'm 20 years older then they are), and had a good time, but figured the age issue would kill any possibility of anything sexual, so I essentially LJBF'd them without explicitly saying so.

Nonetheless, I got Jill's number, and have occasionally called her regarding events I planned to check out. She never returned my calls, but was always glad to see me when we run into each other. I've considered her a FB potential friend, but not really right for a relationship (mainly because she's a smoker, and I have a very low tolerance for smoke). She recently did say she plans on quitting, though.

Anyway, just recently I've been running into them a lot, and got a bit of a vibe from her when hanging out at a show about a week ago. So I called her last week, and finally got an answer, and I made plans to meet up at a music festival with her and her friends. After doing the music festival and hanging out at her place for a bit (that's where the group usually meets), we went to a very underground club to meet up with some other friends. When we were hanging out earlier, she mentioned some other guy who had been "acting as if she didn't exist," so I assumed she was totally hung up on this other guy, and figured she wansn't much of a prospect, regardless of any vibes.

Anyhow, at the club, I was hanging out with her, and we were dancing a bit -- nothing too close, since she had a drink the whole time, and was getting quite drunk -- but geting closer as things went on. I was making wisecracks about silly things that were happing around us, and playing it cool. There was a bit of a vibe coming on. At that time I was thinking I'd probably end up getting into it with her when we go back to her place (she drove to the club).

Anyway, after the club took her drink after she set it down (it was past last call, and the staff was cleaning up, and taking away every cup in sight, though the clube remains open way later), I turned around to acknowledge her other friends, who I finally found, and this rather conservative-looking fellow (he looked like a stereotype stock broker or something) was all over her. His style made him look older than me. I'll call him "Ed." She appeared to be just humoring him and enjoying the attention at first, but I must admit he was a good dancer, and good at kino, and eventually he managed to get her into it. But he was on her like glue! He followed her like an attack puppy dog. Not exactly a puppy dog, nor a pit bull. And she eventually got into it!

I never in a million years though a guy so obviously needy could pull a woman with such a relentless approach. But he was smooth, albeit in a creepy sort of way.

Before we left, Jill's friends seemed to be trying to protect her from him. I stayed out of it, because I don't know her that well, and quite frankly, wasn't about to interfere unless she tried to get away from him. She's a big girl, and can handle herself. I did want to leave, because I had become the default driver, being the only one sober enough, and I had plans for the next morning.

Anyway, when we all left the club, Ed made a bit of small talk with the rest of us, and seemed like a nice guy. Ed went with our other friends, and I don't know whether or not they took him to her place or back to his own place. There was talk of taking him to her place, but why wouldn't he have ridden in the car with us, if so? When we got out of the car, she ended up thanking me profusely for driving her home, saying how "nice it was of me to drive her home" (argh). But maybe that wasn't such a bad thing for her to say about me, since Ed came off as a total "nice guy," after all. Nontheless, I rolled my eyes and just told her how deadset I am against drunk driving, and that things broke off with the last gal I dated because I wouldn't let her drive drunk. Jill gave me a lingering look as I left (expecting a hug, or something? who knows?), but I just said "see ya around," and went on my way.

This was quite a learning experience. It was humbling, because I realized I probably could have got her in the sack if I made a quicker move. I figured I'd just work the vibe up gradually.

I've never pulled off such a relentless approch. I've tried it during my AFC days, and failed miserably. Perhaps it was not the approach, but my lack of skill at it that failed back then. In any case, it would be quite a learning curve to get it down, and I expect more often than not backfires really badly and makes one look a right creep the vast majority of instances it doesn't work. Social poison. I'd only try it where I'm not likely to see any of the people again.

It's possible, she wanted to hook up out of frustration with her real love interest who had been ignoring her, and wanted me to move faster, and was frustrated because I didn't do what the other guy did. In retrospect, I'd have done well to start dancing more intimately with her when she put her drink down. But I figured there was no hurry, and I'd do the 'ol "2 steps forward, 1 step back." I must admit I was hesistant to make as strong a move as I would have on a complete stranger, because it could fvck things up with the group if it crashed and burned. I have a reputation with them as "cool." And I'd just found out the guy who one of her hot friends has hanging out with is gay, and was probably interested in me . I thought they were boyfriend/girlfriend. I like her better than Jill. Very interesting, wierd scene. But fun people to hang around with.

As for Jill and Ed, I don't know what happened. I suspect either she was mortified and grossed out when she sobered up, or they'll have a good little fling until he drives her away by being too clingy.

We'll see. Another lesson for me. This really was an eye-opener, because I'd usually expect a gal to go for a "bad boy" type, rather than a more conservative, "nice guy" type for a hookup. If she had cried "uncle," I'd have been able to wipe the floor with this guy, and I'm not all that big. I wouldn't have been so surpirsed if it was one of the tattoed, big-ass freaks.

So, do any of you use or recommend a relentless approach like that?

If so, how do you deal with the large percentage of failed approaches that I would think would make you look like a creep gals want to run away from?

Or is there a way to spot gals who go for this?

Meanwhile, it's no biggie. I've got a different gal in the picture who appears to be a genuine high IL good prospect.

 

[Bonhomme]

Is there anyone here ...

who's had success with dance-floor pickups on gals who did not give you good signals first or respond positively if you signalled them (smiling, whatever)?

If so, I'd like to find out a bit about how you do it, along with some of the pitfalls and how to minimize them.

 

[n00blar]

it could have been the fact that she was drunk?

 

[seloifter]

I don't get why you call this dude a "nice" guy.
The only thing he had going against him was that he was, as you say clingy. But from the way you described him making moves, it seems to me like he was more aggressive than he was clingy.... and that can be attractive..... as you said, he used kino really well, so clearly he was raising IL that way. I don't understand why you so firmly believe that he was a loser and should not have been able to get with her.....

 

[Bonhomme]

aggressive and clingy

Yeah, being aggressive can be attractive, and his approach was very aggressive. But he was very clingy, too. I was expecting her to cry for help at any moment. Every time she would pull away, he would not give her any space. Not unlike some of my attempts to pick gals up during my chump days. I even drove away some gals who initiated the action by being too clingy back then.

I certainly wouldn't say anyone who knows how to work a gal that well is a loser, -- and I didn't say that anywhere in my post -- but his success in spite of his obvious neediness surprised me. That, and the fact his sense of style was so weak and outdated (very 70s, but not retro-hip 70s). I say "nice guy" because that's how he came across when we were leaving. I wouldn't be surprised if he's the kind of fellow who pours out his feelings and tells a gal everything about himself. Although I have limited data to go on in that respect.

I've heard of guys who succeed with an all-out romantic attack. In fact, I've done so myself. But such relationships do not tend to last long, because the gal gets spoiled quickly.

The fact she was so drunk definitely contributed.

Whenever I've gotten into it on the dance floor with a gal, it would be more of a 2-way street, and I certainly wouldn't chase her if she pulled back for a bit.

I'll admit I'm envious of this dude. I've never had any success with such an aggressive approach. Always got shot down really bad. Perhaps I went after the wrong targets.

Or perhaps it's like the story of the guy who tells every hot woman he sees that he wants to take her home and have sex with her. After being laughed at and/or told to go to hell 10,000 times, bingo!

*************

Actually, it would be worth a shot to go into dance clubs I never go to and experiment. Just have fun, and dance with every woman around who will take me up on it. Not only the hot ones. In fact, start with the plain ones. Just for the sake of dancing. And see if anything further develops with any gal I want to get with.

 

[Ronin I]

She was drunk and he was persistant - it's as simple as that.

There's a fine line between coming on too strong - making your intentions known but possibly seeming desperate/needy

AND

coming on too soft and not making your intentions known (obviously you can't be desperate/needy in this case)

You were on one side of the line and he was on the other.

Personally, if I''m going after a chick I'd rather be on his side of the line every time. I'm talking about club/bar PUs and not a bf/gf situation.

The bottom line is you can't expect the chick to read your mind and make a move on you. If you want it, take it! Or risk, some other dude, chump or not, taking it right out from under you.

 

[Bonhomme]

Well stated, Ronin.

That's a good analysis of those sort of situations.

It's certainly situational. I've erred on both sides of the line recently. The only way to develop a sense of what to do is trial and (much) error.

I do need to work on my handling of situations in which a gal's IL is ambiguous. I've had it too easy with gals showing clear, high interest, in which case escalating things was a breeze. Lots of overnight first dates. But, those were dates, not club pickups. Different ballgame there.