Hypertrophy Specific Training

[kickureface]

have any of you guys tried this? supposedly this is just for muscle mass, not necessarily for strength. effective, for looks only?

 

[Warboss Alex]

no, it's not for muscle mass, it's for sarcoplasmic hypertrophy with little actual contractile protein increase UNLESS you are at such strength levels where the hypertrophy training induces actual growth instead of a pump. so even if it were for aesthetics it would be a temporary 'look' rather than anything permanent.

example: the 6/7a day volume guys who come in, leave looking massive for their trip to the club and the next morning they've shrunk back to their true muscle size.

the only people hypertrophy training works for is people who are already throwing big weights around.

 

[kickureface]

that makes sense.

what about people with success? http://www.thinkmuscle.com/ARTICLES/haycock/hst-01.htm
probably have big weights, eh?
how big do those weights have to be for throwing around and gaining mass?

 

[Warboss Alex]

try it if you want.. it will work for people it works for. you may respond, you may not. on the other hand, if you bulldoze your way up to a 500lb deadlift/squat and a 350lb bench/row, bodyweight military presses, dips and chins with extra weight etc you will definitely be bigger. and going the HST route won't get you to those weights in a hurry. I wouldn't advise it, but try it if you want.

most guys who want to get big and strong QUICKLY should train like powerlifters.. and such systems are not pl-friendly.

 

[kickureface]

heh im about to **** myself looking at those weights

powerlifting is just the use of the major compound exercises with an emphasis on getting the weight up quickly, isnt it? if that adds lean mass most quickly, why dont people try it more often?

also, does strength lead to power or does power lead to strength? by strength i mean just lifting heavy weights. or is there no such conclusion?

 

[Warboss Alex]

heh im about to **** myself looking at those weights

powerlifting is just the use of the major compound exercises with an emphasis on getting the weight up quickly, isnt it? if that adds lean mass most quickly, why dont people try it more often?

also, does strength lead to power or does power lead to strength? by strength i mean just lifting heavy weights. or is there no such conclusion?

all lifts should be done explosively regardless of whether it's pling, oly lifting, bbing or whatever ('get the weight up quickly').

the major compounds affect a lot more muscle groups and induce way more growth than isolations. what's going to challenge your back to grow, a 500lb deadlift or a 40lb one-armed seated cable row?

pling-style routines are not fancy nor flash, nor attractive. they are hard, hard work and people would prefer their cable crossovers and kickbacks to 'feel the burn', get a pump, and simply because they don't hurt much. people have it ingrained that they need to hit the muscle from a dozen different angles to ensure complete development, or need to work out every day. deadlifts and squats are hard and often people go for the easy option.

every gym in the world is full of dozens of 140-160lb guys doing 6 days a week volume routines, with a dedicated day to biceps training, marathon workout sessions, upper/lower/inner chest, doing front/lateral/rear raises for shoulders on top of presses, doing 'hypertrophy' training.. how many of the guys doing that are particularly big and strong? few are.

yet show me a powerlifter who is weak, or has any significant gaps in his physique. even the smaller ones will have dense muscle, thick traps, meaty forearms. the biggest, thickest guys in your gym will be the guys lifting the biggest weights, and the best way to get to big weights fast is powerlifting style routines.

building strength equals building muscle (+calories of course).

ps - as for the numbers, you should be hitting them within a couple of years of serious training. I started squatting/deadlifting the bar in my first year - nine months later I did 170kg/200kg without much trouble. all on a low volume routine - no way I would have hit those numbers had I trained high volume.

 

[Drum&Bass]

Strength is Different than Power..a 170 lb person might be able to power clean 135lbs in .98 seconds..but may not be strong enough to Overhead Press 135 lbs for 1 Rep

While a 220 lb bodybuilder may power clean 135 lbs 1.03 seconds, but has the ability to over head press 135 lbs for 10 reps.

think of power in terms of how long it takes to move something..the faster you move a specific weight, the more powerful you are.

Strength is the ability to move HEAVY weight. strong people are not necessarily Powerful and Powerful people are not necessarily strong.

powerlifting is just the use of the major compound exercises with an emphasis on getting the weight up quickly, isnt it? if that adds lean mass most quickly, why dont people try it more often?

because everyone has different goals when they train, powerlifting doesn't add lean mass, your diet constitutes that. BUT IN ORDER TO BE A SUCCESSFUL POWERLIFTER the MORE MASS YOU HAVE THE BETTER, INCLUDING, FAT.

What are your specific fitness goals ? to become a big chubby powerlifter ?? or slowly add lean muscle while maintaining an attractive look to your physique ?

 

[stronglifts]

Strength is Different than Power..a 170 lb person might be able to power clean 135lbs in .98 seconds..but may not be strong enough to Overhead Press 135 lbs for 1 Rep

While a 220 lb bodybuilder may power clean 135 lbs 1.03 seconds, but has the ability to over head press 135 lbs for 10 reps.

think of power in terms of how long it takes to move something..the faster you move a specific weight, the more powerful you are.

Strength is the ability to move HEAVY weight. strong people are not necessarily Powerful and Powerful people are not necessarily strong.

power leads to strength. That's why powerlifters (pure strength) include explosive movements like box squats in their training program. You really need to read a book Drum & Bass. I advise you Science & Practice of Strength Training to start with.

because everyone has different goals when they train, powerlifting doesn't add lean mass, your diet constitutes that. BUT IN ORDER TO BE A SUCCESSFUL POWERLIFTER the MORE MASS YOU HAVE THE BETTER, INCLUDING, FAT.

What are your specific fitness goals ? to become a big chubby powerlifter ?? or slowly add lean muscle while maintaining an attractive look to your physique ?

Powerlifting builds strength, strength builds muscle. The chabby factor is nutrition. Take a look at Dave Tate before & after his diet. Used to be chabby, started to eat clean, not chabby anymore. Muscles were always there, he just needed to trim down.

 

[simon]

You really need to read a book Drum & Bass. I advise you Science & Practice of Strength Training to start with.

He doesn't need to, he knows everything because he's a personal trainer.

 

[Drum&Bass]

thats really swell for Dave Tate !! but guess what happens when ANYONE trims down significantly..they LOSE strength and POWER, unless they take steroids.

power leads to strength. That's why powerlifters (pure strength) include explosive movements like box squats in their training program. You really need to read a book Drum & Bass. I advise you Science & Practice of Strength Training to start with.

what the hell are you talking about ?? I'm giving him an example to show the difference between strength and power.

 

[Warboss Alex]

because everyone has different goals when they train, powerlifting doesn't add lean mass, your diet constitutes that. BUT IN ORDER TO BE A SUCCESSFUL POWERLIFTER the MORE MASS YOU HAVE THE BETTER, INCLUDING, FAT.

What are your specific fitness goals ? to become a big chubby powerlifter ?? or slowly add lean muscle while maintaining an attractive look to your physique ?

getting fat is a choice some plers make to go up in weight classes, or to improve leverage - but NOBODY needs fat mass as leverage to do a 500 squat or 300 bench. you can achieve those lean as hell. you can be 'successful' and still have abs.

your diet makes you fat just like your diet adds muscle. you eat sloppy, you'll get fat - REGARDLESS OF YOUR TRAINING PROGRAM. likewise, do your cardio, eat properly, time carbs etc, you won't get fat - again, regardless of the way you train.

that 'chubby powerlifter thing' is a gross generalisation born of ignorance (and I don't throw that word around lightly). go to a pling meet and check out the guys in the 220s and 242s - most are ripped and would OWN a bodybuilding stage, yet they are 'successful' in their 600-700lb deadlifts and squats and 500lb benches.

 

[Warboss Alex]

thats really swell for Dave Tate !! but guess what happens when ANYONE trims down significantly..

Tate set PRs at his new lean, mean weight.

No need to lose strength to trim down, unless your weights are so high (I'm talking in the 600-900lb range) where a considerable amount of fat mass is required for leverage and joint protection.

for the guys on this board whose goals are more modest than that, they can keep their abs (they may blur or obscure but they'll never get 'fat') and still pack on the muscle they want with a basic strength/powerlifting program.

 

[stronglifts]

what the hell are you talking about ?? I'm giving him an example to show the difference between strength and power.

I'm talking about something you don't want to understand: power leads to strength. That's why powerlifters include explosive movements in their training to increase their strength.

Here's Mikhail Koklyaev. Power & strength. Check.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=65jovqRDaDs


Read a book & go to bb.com

 

[mrRuckus]

Could we stop pandering to this guy?

 

[Drum&Bass]

for the guys on this board whose goals are more modest than that, they can keep their abs (they may blur or obscure but they'll never get 'fat') and still pack on the muscle they want with a basic strength/powerlifting program.

I agree with that

go to a pling meet and check out the guys in the 220s and 242s - most are ripped and would OWN a bodybuilding stage, yet they are 'successful' in their 600-700lb deadlifts and squats and 500lb benches.

ok, i can believe someone having good genetics and moving big numbers in the 200 lb range..but how common is that ??

especially for the 140+ lbs lifters on this forum who don't have the genes, experience or longevity to compete in powerlifting meets ?? How long will it take them to maintain a LEAN physique and get big like some of the people your thinking of ?

I also agree that powerlifting is extremely effective, but unless your competing for powerlifting, PL'ing should be incorporated in to a routine and not be the focus.

 

[Warboss Alex]

I agree with that

ok, i can believe someone having good genetics and moving big numbers in the 200 lb range..but how common is that ??

500 SQ/DL AND 300 BP/ROW ARE NOT 'BIG NUMBERS', THEY ARE AVERAGE NUMBERS ACHIEVABLE FOR MOST GUYS WITHIN A COUPLE OF YEARS OF TRAINING PROPERLY

especially for the 140+ lbs lifters on this forum who don't have the genes, experience or longevity to compete in powerlifting meets ?? How long will it take them to maintain a LEAN physique and get big like some of the people your thinking of ?

A 140lb lifter who is lean can get up to 200 lean within a couple of years, no drugs. The simple truth is most are afraid to eat as is required, and don't want to do pling routines or low volume stuff because they don't think it's enough.

You think all them plers are genetically gifted? No, some are but most of them, they just work hard. Strength training is the epitome of 'you get out what you put in' - as opposed to bbing where people are more interesting in outdoing their rivals instead of actually moving some iron.

Pay your dues and you will be rewarded. It makes me cringe sometimes, the guys on here just want a moderately muscular physique with a low bodyfat for aesthetics which they could obtain within a year or two, and yet they waste so much time getting nowhere.

If at the end of the year, you still have your crisply defined abs, did your crossovers and kickbacks, and have gained a huge 5lbs, that's great, you'll be at 200 from your 140 in 12 years. Or you can actually do some real work, eat some real food, take EVERY MEASURE POSSIBLE TO KEEP BODYFAT DOWN (cardio, carb manipulation, green tea maybe, clean eating) and you can be 20-30lbs up by the end of the year with the SAME bodyfat.

Everyone on this board (or most guys) can be where they want to be within a year or so.

 

[Frink']

Lets take powerlifters as an example.

Muscle growth is mostly about nutrition. Thats why you see super strong 170 lbs guys and super strong 300 lbs guys. Their musclegrowth is determined by nutrition. The 170 lbs guys curb calories to maintain weightclass, and the 300 lbs guys forcefeed to do the same and obviously cause it increases their lifts. If a "fat" powerlifter would diet down from 18% bodyfat to 10% bodyfat, he would still be alot bigger than 99% of the people in the gym.

I asked a big guy why he was a powerlifter instead of a bodybuilder. Answer: I didn't want to do drugs.

If you eat enough to gain muscle -- getting freaky strong will take your muscle weight upwards. If you eat clean like a bodybuilder, you can keep bodyfat in the low teens. You don't have to get fat. Nobody gains 3% bodyfat from a heavy squat workout. I realized that "powerbuilding" was the way to go back when I went from a bodybuilder type split to max-ot training and then to dualfactor 5x5 (however, I ate too much. High carbs do bad things to my bodyfat).

 

[Warboss Alex]

Lets take powerlifters as an example.

Muscle growth is mostly about nutrition. Thats why you see super strong 170 lbs guys and super strong 300 lbs guys. Their musclegrowth is determined by nutrition. The 170 lbs guys curb calories to maintain weightclass, and the 300 lbs guys forcefeed to do the same and obviously cause it increases their lifts. If a "fat" powerlifter would diet down from 18% bodyfat to 10% bodyfat, he would still be alot bigger than 99% of the people in the gym.

I asked a big guy why he was a powerlifter instead of a bodybuilder. Answer: I didn't want to do drugs.

If you eat enough to gain muscle -- getting freaky strong will take your muscle weight upwards. If you eat clean like a bodybuilder, you can keep bodyfat in the low teens. You don't have to get fat. Nobody gains 3% bodyfat from a heavy squat workout. I realized that "powerbuilding" was the way to go back when I went from a bodybuilder type split to max-ot training and then to dualfactor 5x5 (however, I ate too much. High carbs do bad things to my bodyfat).

good post!

 

[Frink']

thats really swell for Dave Tate !! but guess what happens when ANYONE trims down significantly..they LOSE strength and POWER, unless they take steroids.

what the hell are you talking about ?? I'm giving him an example to show the difference between strength and power.

When I trimmed down 50 lbs, it took about two months to beat my previous max. Not the end of the world you know.