huh? Endurance for cutting? Muscle loss nearly negligible?

[[look]aRhino]

So I was in the gym today working out. On a side note: I benched 185. Those who read my other thread know of my quest to bench my weight. I'm so close!

Anyway, I started talking with this chick after she corrected my form on the lat pull down. Turns out i could isolate the lats a lot better if I did it a certain way, and save my biceps for later on in the workout.

She really seemed to know what she was talking about on everything. She told me a lot of stuff not only about form, but body types and working out for certain goals and stuff, but she did say one thing that stuck out as contrary.

She asked what my workout goals are, and I told her I was cutting. She said, that as long as I kept it up with the weights, the optimal thing to do is endurance cardio.

She said aim for about 40 mins, but you shouldn't really hit 45 mins, thats too much. She said that although that will reduce your muscle a little bit, its really barely anything. "Definitely not anything worth writing home about."

This is contrary to Diesel's advice for HIIT, and Diesel just happens to be the reigning king of this board. Regardless of that, I was wondering what you guys thought of it.

Rhino

 

[DJBen]

By everything I've read of his, he'd be irate by now

Try it. DIESEL seemed to love the HIIT approach. I personally have used both endurance AND HIIT when I was doing MMA not very long ago. I'd do one day a week for endurance where I'd do it twice a day [early morning and mid-evening] and another day where I'd do HIIT. I then did three days of weights and never had a problem with overtraining.

I looked in great shape [ahh... those were the days, why did I let my body slide? ] and I noticed very little strength loss. DIESEL, while very knowledgeable, doesnt know everything. More to the point, he doesnt know what works for you - only him and the people he knows well.

Whats the harm in trying it? if you begin to notice substantial losses, go to HIIT. If not, endurance is probably better in my oppinion.

By the way, has anyone got/seen a pic of DIESEL? I wanna know exactly how ripped he is ^_^ [I'm not gay... er... honest ]

 

[2xp]

if your only goal is to be ripped, i think you are loosing a lot of time+effort with endurance. the body begins to eat up everything include muscles after 20 mn of cardio opposed to HIIT which is *very* efficient. i am talking about personal experience, maybe other people have other reactions.

this chick is certainly specialized in women's constitutions. they definitely have less muscle mass than men and when they are doing cardio, they will loose less. when you are ripped (let's say after 2 years of working out), you have more muscle than what is naturally necessary and the body will look for any damn opportunity to burn those extra muscles. so don't go for cardio.

now, i personally think that one should look for a healthy/natural/sportsy body. having tons of muscles and not being able to run for 30 minutes is REALLY ridicilous and unnatural. that's why i advise everybody to do cardio (30/40 mins) + sports like football or soccer + working out + stretching exercices. i know i am burning muscles and that if i could, i'd lift much more pounds, but i prefer to be the "he-can-do-all" guy than being tthe "MrMuscle-can't-even-touch-his-back-with-his-hands-because-too-much-muscles"


edit : and that should interest you, i was talking with this chick during lauch and she said she prefered the underwear model (that is the natural sportsy guy with abs ) than the big Swarchzeneger look. i know this is only one view and one women's view but i thought it was quite interesting

 

[[look]aRhino]

DJBen:

how long were your HIIT intervals? And I doubt I'll notice substantial losses, not visually at least. (I don't have toooo much to lose )

I'm thinking maybe to do 2 endurance 2 HIIT a week or something like that.

2xp:

I've heard those numbers a lot before, the 20min and stuff. Are there any studies to back that up, or are they just time numbers being passed around.

She was a personal trainer for everyone. But her advice did come from her personal experience, when she bulked up and then tried super endurance.

I agree with you man. I'd prefer to be able to do it all and never be out of my element.

Yah, I'll be honest, all the chicks I talk to specifically about it prefer the underwear look over the arnold look. I think its mostly guys who love the arnold look


Anyway, off to play tennis. catch y'all later.

 

[DJBen]

I was never counting intervals or times at all. Unlike weights, I felt like the more I just DID it, the less obsessed I'd become. I'd really really screw myself over, throwing everything in to it, and then rest until my heart was beating to what was somewhere distantly close to normal, then do it again. By all means I'm no pro - I've just learnt that your body tells you when to stop, not the clock.

I've got bad knee joints already and I'm only 18 so I cant do too much HIIT, it'll mess me up too much later on down the line.

Ask that trainer about it, she sounds like she knows her stuff a lot more than me. I dont want to be giving everyone crap advice.

Yeah, chicks do like the underwear model kind of guy. Think about it this way: do you like the underwear model woman, or the woman with more ripped muscles than three of you put together? ... I know what I'd go for.

BB is for the select few that LIVE that life. If you have other passions in your life except BB, then the extremely toned/slightly bulky look is probably best for ya [imo]

Ben

 

[[look]aRhino]

Heh. Yah, I want that ripped athlete look.

Although, the other day I saw pumping iron with Arnold. I've never been so depressed as when I flexed in the mirror after that movie .

So for the rest of that day I wanted to be a BB, but when I woke up the next day, I was back to normal

Rhino

 

[semag]

a) Pumping Iron is amazing, and such a great motivation, I love that movie.

b) You really think you're going to naturally come close to arnold? It's damn hard, and by damn hard, I mean fukking hard. Even so.... all those girls that "say" they like underwear models, are saying in reality, "I like looking at a pretty boy who's been airbrushed and photographed with a special camera lens so he looks good, not that gross bodybuilder guy who's glistening and not airbrushed."

However, put that girl in the same room with Arnold, and see who she likes. Hell, just watch the movie and see all the chicks on arnold. There's a difference between BBers in real life, and on the magazine, just as there's a difference between ye olde underwear model in the magazine and in real life. I'm sure he looks real small and ***** in real life, and your physical presence is something to be accounted for.

Oh, and I bet arnold didn't have "too many muscles to touch his hands behind his back." Those guys can pull crazy poses that I can't do, and they're super flexible.

c) As far as HIIT goes, that 20 mins number is not "made up." There's plenty to back it up, and I think www.fatlosstips.com ahs it or something, I'm not sure, and I don't wanna look right now, but if you need it maybe I"ll find it later.

d) for the personal trainer lady, think of this. Women have different bodies and goals than men. Being "ripped" is very very hard for a woman, and is not something most normally go for. They go for the smooth look, probably around 14-16 % body fat, and not a lot of muscles. (think of your typical model) The way to get this type of body is through, you guessed it, endurance cardio. Think of olympic runners, people that run for miles and miles, the long distance guys. They're all gonna be skinny as a rail, and not cut at all. Their body finds a balance between minimum muscle, and maximum energy/power output, so that it can run the "body machine" with as little energy as possible.

On the other hand, your typical man wants to be "cut," or sub 10% body fat. Any thoughts of people that look like that? Football runningbacks/wide receivers, basketball players, sprinters in the olympics... are we seeing a pattern.
(from google's image search)
http://news.bbc.co.uk/olmedia/925000/images/_928444_fred300.jpg
http://news.bbc.co.uk/olmedia/845000/images/_848246_greenjohn300.jpg
http://www.angelfire.com/wy/atleta/m_salida.jpg

The people that are super cut, are athletes that do sports where the body is forced to create maximum energy in a short time (sprinting). In order for the body to create maximum energy, it breaks down fat, which has 9 Calories per gram, and uses that, rather than carbs or protein, which have a much more meager 4 calories per gram. You need to trick your body into thinking it needs a TON of energy right now, and not a little bit for a while, that is the essence of HIIT.

 

[DJBen]

Yes and No. Arnie is one of those men. He has something about him, and from all the impressions I have of him, he's also a real good bloke. Dont forget, he's the star of loads of kick-ass action movies... That gets the chicks, the muscles are a bonus

I know what you mean though. But only a certain type of woman is gonna go for him imo. I prefer the very cut and bulky guy myself IE the slightly larger underwear model

[thanks for reminding me they look bigger in photo's btw!]

 

[Dictatorsaurus]

The best way to get ripped and a barely lose muscle is by doing interval training.

I am a competitive boxer and have been lifting weights for a while. My body is slowly getting bigger and the muscle definition is still present.

 

[[look]aRhino]

semag:

I don't want to be like arnold. But after watching his movie for some reason I did want to be like him, and I was disappointed that I wasn't. As for that, once i cut down to underwear level I'll start bulking up again. So i'll be a real lean muscle machine .

that fatlosstips site was pretty good man. Thanks for the link. I won't stop doing interval work, starting two days from now I'm going to alternate every morning except gym days. HIIT one day and endurance the next. Hopefully it'll work.

You're right. She was dealing with a woman's body. and I DO want to look like a sprinter. chiselled out of rock.

DJBen:

I think I agree with you in terms of my goal. But i'll probably just alternate between cutting and bulking forever.

Dictatorsaurus:

I'll probably try both.

Rhino

 

[DJBen]

Definately man... I'm bulking right now, just to cut again later and do it all over again. I dont think I'll ever stop until my body starts to give out on me - I enjoy it and like to look in the mirror and think "I'm more in shape than 90% of the other people in this world."

Your body will reach it's potential after a long time of working out, and you wont go above it. Only the select few have the genes to be huge like arnie - and aparently he helped himself along the way by juicing on occasion.

Good luck on your goals man