How we can improve the game/pickup community.

[Jesse Pinkman]

I wanted to touch on this because for the past year or so, I have been involved with the game community ever since the RSD Forums went away. Some guys have gone to WhatsApp, others to Telegram Groups, and some to Discord groups. However, I think that where it stands right now, the Game and Pickup Community is in shambles. TBH, it kinda always has been but it got worse over the past few years ever since the fall of RSD (even though they still do bootcamps). Here is how I think we can improve or even build a game/pickup community that is beneficial to guys getting laid, finding quality wings, and doing better with women.

Make it heavily action-oriented.

Field reports, logs, approach logs, online dating logs, and logs where you share a lay (that are not visible to Google and people have to sign in to see). Right now, even a place like this is all dudes whining, complaining, and coming up with theories around politics on why they cannot get laid. To these guys, just send them over to the Black Pill forum. For guys who are serious about turning it around, make the community an action-oriented one where guys are taking action, sharing their reports, and earning respect based on that.

We need an environment where the men who are taken seriously are those who are actually putting in the work, not the ones crying over politics and society all the time. We can even make a ranking system where guys who have done certain number of approaches, gotten a certain number of matches, been on a certain number of dates, or gotten a certain number of lays are the guys who get to have any say and are actually respected. The rest of the guys not putting in the work are banned and pushed to communities where they can spend more time whining.

Right now, we are actually giving too much attention to guys that suck with women, cry about politics/society, and aren't getting any better with game at all.

Only give power and authority to guys that actually succeed with women.

This is controversial and I have heard many pushbacks on this. Some guys will claim that a guy can just look good and get laid so what does he have to teach any of us? Everyone has their reason but in my opinion, the guys leading these communities and having any authority in them should be guys that are having success with women. We should not even listen to or give much of a voice to guys who suck with women no matter what their reason is, if they are not getting results, they need to STFU and take action, put in the work, take coaching (for free obviously), and keep going until they do get results. Pickup is in shambles because dudes that suck with women now have too much of a voice.

One such community I can think of from back in the day that did it right were the Good Looking Loser Forums.

The guys who led and were leaders were guys who were getting laid after applying the advice from the site. All of them were no-nonsense and hard on members that wasted time. Any member that was whining about women, spamming theories, and wasting time was disciplined and outed. I think Game Communities have become toxic because bitter dudes who do not take action or are just failing get a big voice and tend to have way too much influence in them.

In one community I was a part of, some guy who would go out for months, not score a single date, cry about the dating scene in a given city (he did this for 2 cities), and come up with Black Pill theories was made a leader because he was heavily involved in the community. Overtime, this guy started pushing toxic content out but others listened because he was a senior member who was made an admin in the community. The community more or less went to $hit and was practically a Black Pill breeding ground where most guys did not go out and approach, the ones who did often failed and justified their failures using Black Pill theories.

If I was to start a community, I would make someone like @LucianoM into a leader because he gets laid and succeeds with women.

If we had more communities like that for game, I think that pickup would start to turn around.

 

[SW15]

I think that where it stands right now, the Game and Pickup Community is in shambles.

I agree about the state of the community.

Make it heavily action-oriented.

Field reports, logs, approach logs, online dating logs, and logs where you share a lay (that are not visible to Google and people have to sign in to see).

You have been the change that you want to see. There are some field reports threads like your field reports thread. I routinely make comments on that thread. @nicksaiz65 has posted field reports in recent years as well.

Right now, even a place like this is all dudes whining, complaining, and coming up with theories around politics on why they cannot get laid. To these guys, just send them over to the Black Pill forum. For guys who are serious about turning it around, make the community an action-oriented one where guys are taking action, sharing their reports, and earning respect based on that.

I can identify with your point of view on this. At the same time, I also realize that the men who complain do have some valid grievances.

5 years ago, Roosh acknowledged that game had gotten more difficult from 2001 (when he started) up until 2018 and realized that more and more men would be turning black pill/MGTOW.

9 Ways Game Has Changed From 2001 To 2018

web.archive.org

If I was to start a community, I would make someone like @LucianoM into a leader because he gets laid and succeeds with women.

@LucianoM is a valuable resource and good at attraction-seduction.

If we had more communities like that for game, I think that pickup would start to turn around.

I like your general ideas and I think you are on the right track.

 

[Michael Chief]

Make it heavily action-oriented.

Field reports, logs, approach logs, online dating logs, and logs where you share a lay (that are not visible to Google and people have to sign in to see).

I couldn't agree more. Seduction communities have historically been a breeding ground for keyboard jockeys who were all talk and no action. The ones that emphasized journaling and FRs/LRs were the most constructive.

I know it might sound weird coming from me since I don't have any FRs/LRs on this particular forum, but I wrote many on another now-dead one when I was inactive here, as well as on local lair forums I joined way back in the day.

People should write field reports even if they had no success from it because they can oftentimes learn some great lessons just by seeing what they wrote about it, as well as from other people's advice about the reports. If you're new and learning, start a journal right away just like @Jesse Pinkman has done here.

 

[tksniper]

If you think there is still such a thing as a pickup community then you are living in the 2000s. Nowadays people mostly focus on the gym and making money as a way to improve their value to the opposite sex and expanding their social circles to give themselves more opportunities rather than focusing on their approach game.

Basically things have gone back to normal before the pickup community started. This is how it’s always been for thousands of years of human evolution. If you wanted to increase your sexual market value, you just had go out and work hard and climb the social ladder.

Yeah there are still natural born “players” here and there but those are guys who got laid at an early age.

This website itself is actually a relic. That’s why you don’t see great posts anymore. All the great guys have moved on. All the great ideas have already been written.

There’s nothing more you newbies can add to it except spin in circles wishing for a silly seduction community to revive itself (which will never happen).

 

[SargeMaximus]

Until guys can get over their ego and their jealousy, and until they can think outside the box and realize there is more than one way to skin a cat, the community will stay as it is. I post more receipts than anyone and I get nothing but hate. So no more. It is what it is

 

[SW15]

Nowadays people mostly focus on the gym and making money as a way to improve their value to the opposite sex and expanding their social circles to give themselves more opportunities rather than focusing on their approach game.

A lot of men have also given up approaching in favor of using swipe apps and sending DMs on social media platforms.

"Money, muscles, game" -Rollo Tomassi

 

[CornbreadFed]

I think the elephant in the room is that most men on these sites are purple pilled at heart. What @Jesse Pinkman is doing is a smaller niche market that attracted men because they needed help with women. Cold Approaching is not only difficult, but doesn’t give you the end road to a successful relationship. Guys that enter these communities in hopes of getting better with women realize this early on and turn to the red and black pill as a result.

 

[SW15]

What @Jesse Pinkman is doing is a smaller niche market that attracted men because they needed help with women. Cold Approaching is not only difficult, but doesn’t give you the end road to a successful relationship.

Swiping and sending DMs on social media has replaced both social circle game and stranger approaching game to an extent. People still meet offline, as the recent Playing with Fire video shows (see below). Interactions started from swipe apps and social media have replaced about 30-50% of romantic relationships that would have started offline had they started 30-40 years ago.

Approaching strangers has always been difficult. Think about why online dating was created in the early 1990s. Online dating was created in the 1990s as a response primarily to the difficulties of nightlife venue game of the 1970s- early1990s.

Approaching strangers randomly in non-bar venues was a niche activity in the 1970s-early 1990s (pre-internet) and has also been a niche activity during the last 15 years (2008-2023).

The same skills that can get a man through a cold approach and through the first 1-4 dates until sex happens are not the same skills that create solid, longer term relationships. While beta males often struggle with app swiping, approaching strangers, and the first 1-4 dates getting to sex, they close the skills gap to some degree once the romantic relationship has been established. Within the confines of a relationship, being more alpha is better than being more beta (Iron Rule of Tomassi #1 - Frame is Everything) but betas with mediocre frames can keep relationships going for 5 years, 10 years, 20 years or more. These 5, 10, or 20 year long relationships might not be high quality though. However, even a mediocre to subpar 5 year, 10 year, or 20 year relationship typically has more sex in it than an incel would get.

I think most men envision having some sort of successful relationship, whether these relationship are traditional monogamous marriages or serial monogamous relationships lasting 1-4 years. For many men, both of these outcomes are decent outcomes as it keep them from having to cold approach for X amount of time. Cold approach is difficult and often doesn't produce a lot of results.

 

[corsica]

I think the problem with this forum is young kids that are socially retarded opening threads with basic questions. Stuff like "text game" or how to get more matches on Tinder. They don't know how to communicate in person. Zero charisma and nothing going for.

I heard a story about a kid (socially inept) who was in college (you guessed, IT). There was a roommate (girl) who was sleeping with 3 guys (also roommates). The IT guy tried to bang her too and during "sex", he was humping her leg and not getting hard, she asks -what are you doing? and he stops, leaves the room saying "never mind, I think I'm gay". Young guys are spending too much time in the virtual world. They don't go out, they don't travel, zero activities, zero hobbies, they don't know how to be social. Then they go to places like this forum looking for an easy solution like "what to text". Dude, you need to go out more often and stop being a weirdo.

 

[Ricky]

Your field approach journal is similar to what alot of the lair members would post in the yahoo groups. We had alot of success in those days. I think seeing more field approach posts helps to.

I should probably post some of mine from my recent trip.

 

[CornbreadFed]

Swiping and sending DMs on social media has replaced both social circle game and stranger approaching game to an extent. People still meet offline, as the recent Playing with Fire video shows (see below). Interactions started from swipe apps and social media have replaced about 30-50% of romantic relationships that would have started offline had they started 30-40 years ago.

This is also true too

 

[Dr.Suave]

This is a very good post @Jesse Pinkman and I agree with most of the stuff you said. It seems to me you basically established three categories:

1.- Blackpillers AKA The Whiners / Cry me a river. Basically guys who are not serious about improving. They just want to complain and waste our time.
B.- Guys who are not succesfull at pulling girls but are serious about improving and they dont complain or waste our time.
3.- Guys who are succesfull at pulling girls and spinning plates.

If I may, I think you forgot about those of us currently in LTRs.

 

[Jesse Pinkman]

If you think there is still such a thing as a pickup community then you are living in the 2000s. Nowadays people mostly focus on the gym and making money as a way to improve their value to the opposite sex and expanding their social circles to give themselves more opportunities rather than focusing on their approach game.

Basically things have gone back to normal before the pickup community started. This is how it’s always been for thousands of years of human evolution. If you wanted to increase your sexual market value, you just had go out and work hard and climb the social ladder.

Yeah there are still natural born “players” here and there but those are guys who got laid at an early age.

This website itself is actually a relic. That’s why you don’t see great posts anymore. All the great guys have moved on. All the great ideas have already been written.

There’s nothing more you newbies can add to it except spin in circles wishing for a silly seduction community to revive itself (which will never happen).

I agree that focusing on looks and money is important and more pickup guys can benefit from that. I have lost count of the amount of guys who still live with their moms but think that going out an hour away to the city to "sarge" is a good idea. However, I speak from experience when I say that "expanding social circles" for the sake of trying to get laid more is a complete waste of time. Most men who have access to hot women are not just going to give you access to their circles unless you bring, you guessed it, more hot women.

How are guys doing that? Cold approach.

Say what you want about pickup and its various clowns but the reality is that outside of a killer online dating profile, cold approach is single-handedly the best way to meet women you otherwise would not have met. With social circles, you might luck into an LTR if you are lucky but that is it.

 

[Jesse Pinkman]

I agree about the state of the community.



You have been the change that you want to see. There are some field reports threads like your field reports thread. I routinely make comments on that thread. @nicksaiz65 has posted field reports in recent years as well.



I can identify with your point of view on this. At the same time, I also realize that the men who complain do have some valid grievances.

5 years ago, Roosh acknowledged that game had gotten more difficult from 2001 (when he started) up until 2018 and realized that more and more men would be turning black pill/MGTOW.

9 Ways Game Has Changed From 2001 To 2018

web.archive.org

@LucianoM is a valuable resource and good at attraction-seduction.



I like your general ideas and I think you are on the right track.

1. I think we need a field reports and lay reports section on this site, if only we can get the take of the admins on here such as @Serenity. It will take the site to the next level and truly lay a foundation for newbies to head to.

2. As much as Roosh contributed to the space of the red pill and Manosphere, I think that the guy was inherently odd. He had aspie level traits in his posts and was a far cry from the kind of dude you would think could succeed in game. It is not really a mystery on why he went down the women hating route and then the religious route.

 

[Jesse Pinkman]

People should write field reports even if they had no success from it because they can oftentimes learn some great lessons just by seeing what they wrote about it, as well as from other people's advice about the reports. If you're new and learning, start a journal right away just like @Jesse Pinkman has done here.

One thing I will add is that while this is productive, we should not give much respect to men who write field reports but still have issues. I say this because the pickup group I used to be a part of recently had a member that would "take action" every day, do approaches, write field reports, fail, blame outside circumstances (the city and its culture), and then eventually come up with black pilled theories. One of those theories was that women in a given city (a really big city btw) just don't like "masculine men" and he is losing out to feminine pretty boys.

It is a step above the guys who just post theories all day but we need to judge guys that get outcomes and have the receipts to back it up. I'd love to post receipts myself but am limited due to the fact that this forum is public and we have already had @RickTheToad get into trouble for doing something similar. I think a private forum for members where we can share more would be phenomenal.

 

[Jesse Pinkman]

I think the elephant in the room is that most men on these sites are purple pilled at heart. What @Jesse Pinkman is doing is a smaller niche market that attracted men because they needed help with women. Cold Approaching is not only difficult, but doesn’t give you the end road to a successful relationship. Guys that enter these communities in hopes of getting better with women realize this early on and turn to the red and black pill as a result.

Cold approaching is great and when done right, arguably one of the best things you can do for your dating life outside of building a really good online dating profile. Social circles break apart and dating apps can ban you for whatever but you never know when the girl you approach is going to be your next girlfriend. I have seen many men build successful relationships from cold approach and some even get high lay counts off of it.

However, it is represented by pickup clowns like this moron here so it gets a bad name:

 

[Jesse Pinkman]

Until guys can get over their ego and their jealousy, and until they can think outside the box and realize there is more than one way to skin a cat, the community will stay as it is. I post more receipts than anyone and I get nothing but hate. So no more. It is what it is

If what you say is true, this is a tragedy. This is why I really want the team to work out a way for a private forum for members who are serious about taking action. It is hidden from Google and you have to make an account on here to really access it. If we did that, then guys like you, me, and @LucianoM could share so much more of our receipts and proof. We could show newer guys how it is done and we could bring back some of the magic of places like the Good Looking Loser forum.

Obviously we would have rules like you cannot post her face or her name.

 

[Jesse Pinkman]

Swiping and sending DMs on social media has replaced both social circle game and stranger approaching game to an extent. People still meet offline, as the recent Playing with Fire video shows (see below). Interactions started from swipe apps and social media have replaced about 30-50% of romantic relationships that would have started offline had they started 30-40 years ago.

Oh god PWF, I actually saw that video being filmed live in Miami. Dude has been active and out and about these days. However, there is some bias in these questions. Women are not going to say that they met their boyfriend through cold approach even if they actually did. I have dated girls that I cold approached and the answer was always "we met at an event" or "we had similar hobbies" or "we used to work together in some vicinity", it was never "he approached me out of the blue".

It is because the shame would be unreal from society, especially one in Miami which gets quite judgmental once you get out of the tourist areas.

 

[Jesse Pinkman]

I think the problem with this forum is young kids that are socially retarded opening threads with basic questions. Stuff like "text game" or how to get more matches on Tinder. They don't know how to communicate in person. Zero charisma and nothing going for.

I heard a story about a kid (socially inept) who was in college (you guessed, IT). There was a roommate (girl) who was sleeping with 3 guys (also roommates). The IT guy tried to bang her too and during "sex", he was humping her leg and not getting hard, she asks -what are you doing? and he stops, leaves the room saying "never mind, I think I'm gay". Young guys are spending too much time in the virtual world. They don't go out, they don't travel, zero activities, zero hobbies, they don't know how to be social. Then they go to places like this forum looking for an easy solution like "what to text". Dude, you need to go out more often and stop being a weirdo.

If you think this community is bad, others are inherently much worse. At least on here, the mods are sensible and users are smart enough to put trolls in their place. I used to be a part of a pickup group recently, primarily for the purposes of findings a wingman, and it got really bad. The admin allowed some old guy that openly claimed he sucked with women, had gone out for 6 weeks+ doing daygame almost daily, had no dates to show for it, and spread black pill theory become a leader because he happened to "take action".

We had a situation where this "leader" was "coaching" a guy and the guy spam approached. It ended up being so bad that the guy got a reputation at his local Planet Fitness for being a spam approacher. Classic case of blind leading the blind.

Your story was just bad though, poor kid but at least he is in college and has time to turn it around.

 

[Jesse Pinkman]

Your field approach journal is similar to what alot of the lair members would post in the yahoo groups. We had alot of success in those days. I think seeing more field approach posts helps to.

I should probably post some of mine from my recent trip.

Do it man, in fact, I encourage you to start your own field reports journal thread. If I can get at least 10 members to start a field reports thread on the forum where they are constantly highlighting the action they take while welcoming feedback from the pros here, I think that would do wonders for solidifying us as the best community on the web for game. IMO, I think we really are the best.