How does not pushing past a "boyfriend disclaimer", convey a lack of confidence?

[edger]

When the topic of "boyfriend disclaimer" has been talked about in the past, I never got around to asking this question. I don't understand what confidence has to do with a boyfriend disclaimer..I'm failing to see the correlation. How is a guy showing a lack of confidence by halting a sarge(especially after a cold-approach) after the woman tells him she has a boyfriend? I mean, what's a guy supposed to do? When a chick tells you to leave her alone(that's basically what a boyfriend disclaimer implies, whether she really wants you to leave her alone or not) you're supposed to still sarge her? It doesn't make sense and makes you look desperate, creepy, and stalkerish.

I could understand the confidence part having to do with showing that you weren't affected by it, but by halting the sarge in itself, I can't see how THAT would show a lack of confidence.

 

[Jeffst1980]

It doesn't. Some guys believe erroneously that EVERY girl can be gamed, so that's why you hear that.

But--you shouldn't necessarily end the interaction once you get that disclaimer, even if it's clear that she isn't interested. If you have some rapport, that's a perfect opportunity to get her to introduce you to her friends. Don't go around believing that any girl that doesn't want you is useless.

I agree with you that trying to force a change of heart on a taken girl smacks of desperation. All those "bf destroyer" patterns are huge wastes of time if she's truly into her boyfriend--and, if she isn't into him, she won't bring him up in the first place, or will refer to him as a "friend." This is why it's a mistake to outright ask if a girl has a boyfriend--a lot of girls with boyfriends or guys they are "sort of seeing" are out searching for a replacement, and putting them on the spot is going to trigger the ol' ASD.

 

[Craig Reeves]

co-sign...

 

[Rollo Tomassi]

Of course all that begs the question; if she's so involved with her BF why is she sitting there partying with her friends, on a GNO, or otherwise putting herself into a position / environment where a guy might approach and open her? Why isn't she with the BF now, or at least planning her next step with him instead?

In the back of your head, this is the subconscious association you're confronting. That's your point of confusion when you start a thread entitled "Girl tells me she's got a BF in casual conversation WTF?"

So how do you deal with it? First you have to know what it is. The Boyfriend Disclaimer is a preemptive LJBF. The Boyfriend Disclaimer rejection occurs when a woman slips the information of her unavailability (due to the BF) covertly into casual conversation. It's simply a communication methodology with the latent purpose of preemptively rejecting him (where a LJBF is a reactive rejection). Men have a tendency to think women are abstract and scattered when in fact they are very calculating, it's just that covert communication is second nature for them.

So what's the counter to this? Should you just give up on the approach? Possibly, it's at this point that you need to reassess your interest in the girl. If you've gotten to the point that she's put out the BF Disclaimer, most likely you've telegraphed your interest in her, she's picked up on it and covertly offered you both an OUT of the approach. Let me repeat that, if you get a BF Disclaimer she's picked up on your interest in her. This is of course your main failing. If she were interested in your advance, attracted to you, etc. you wouldn't get the disclaimer, boyfriend or not. If you are seriously a better option for her, a woman wont actively self-defeat her interest.

But you got the disclaimer so what's next? You need to evaluate whether the girl is worth the effort first. She's not where she is at the moment because she's so end-of-the-world in love with the BF, assuming there is a BF to begin with. That's the first assessment. My best advice is to base this on her IOIs with you, her covert interest signs, buying temperature, etc. Every girl can be sarged, but not every girl is worth that effort. Women who use the BF disclaimer (like the LJBF) have more likely than not used it with success before, with predictable results. So the counter to it is to use the unexpected. A BF destroyer is one way, but I'd suggest not to go with something so scripted. C&F is great, something along the lines "wow, your BF sounds great, what's he doing with you?" will not only neg hit her, but also overtly draw attention to her use of the disclaimer.

One very entertaining response is using direct game with a BF disclaimer, and basically call her bluff. You'll have to have brass balls to pull it off, but by directly calling her on her disclaimer bullsh!t, you force her to acknowledge it. This response is akin to telling a LJBF girl "no thanks, I have enough friends". You could say something like "wow your BF sounds great, he really must trust you getting prettied up and having guys buy drinks for you while he's away?" or simply say "why is it beautiful girls with BFs never seem to have them around when they go out?" This is an art to say the least. You're going to come off as pretentious, but if you've telegraphed your interest so that you're getting a BFD, you may not have much to lose anyway. It's important to use C&F with an air of confidence - you'll get called a Jerk possibly, but use that to your advantage - say "yeah, I've had a lot of girls tell me that". It's really a game of psychological chicken.

Also, consider using the BFD girl as a pivot for a secondary target if possible. If the BFD girl seems a lost cause, you can use her response as a rebound for another girl in the same social setting. Offer "yeah, girls like your friend are ALWAYS talking about their BFs at a club / gathering / wherever you are." to your secondary girl, this will open rapport. You've got to do so with a knowing wink or some other subtlety, but with an air of confidence. Other girls know why women use a BFD, play on this, make her know that you know it as well and you'll develop rapport.

 

[Unprez]

i think this is another example circumstantial .. if in a club a girl says that, i would just smile and say ok you prob dont want to socialize then and walk away.... y would u care to talk to a girl whos 'unavailable' in a club?? Now..say ur in a class or friend's friend that you hang out with, it would not be a bad idea to show interest but in a suttle way of course....but even then most girls never use the title bf unless they really don't see u as potential as mentioned earlier

 

[horaholic]

I opened a three set the other night, and one of them said she had a BF.

Me "Oh yeah, where's her he at?"
Her "North Carolina" (we are in Reno, NV)
Me "Well thats a long ways away, I'll bet you get lonely. Do really you think he's not talking to any girls tonight?" blah, blah, blah

I couldnt spark any interest in her, or her friends whatsoever, though, but I think my response was pretty good. I am just starting to really do cold approaches, so I am still pretty bad at taking it past the opener, but for the first time in my life, Im actually DOING it, so Im happy with myself.

Of course, last week (super bowl party at a bar), I was talking to some chick, and first she told me shes a lesbian, so I asked her a bunch of lesbian questions. Then, she took it back, and said she wasn't really a lesbian, but she had a BF of three years. I ended up wrestling with her in this parking lot, in the middle of some Roman candle battle royale. Little did I know, she's a black belt in something or other, and a roll derby girl, and she actually pinned me down. She seemed to like me after that, though, and she followed me to the next bar, but her friend pulled her out. Interesting night, to say the least!

 

[Sinistar]

From an older thread...

This weekend while out with wife and friends I witnessed something that brought a smile. One of my buddy's friends came out to meet us. He's one of those natural DJ/PUA/Alpha types. You know, if you told him about this forumn he'd just laugh it off.

Anyways, early on he spots this fine HB (I'll say 7.5-8 range). He immediately approaches (zero fear of rejection) and opens the HB. She responds exactly: "I'm here with my boyfriend." Without missing a beat, with the perfect c0cky attitude and grin he says "Well I'm not interested in your boyfriend." ...by the end of the evening he was making out with her in the bar, in front of the *boyfriend* who watched the entire thing and did nothing to intervene.

Its awesome watching someone work who has completely killed off their fear of rejection. And the other dude was never a *boyfriend*, he was just her convient AFC defense shield / puppy / girlfriend. And those shields literally dropped with just one sentence spoken with true confidence.

For the PUA/DJ dude, he's got so much confidence that he's simply re-inforcing at this point.

Now let's hope that pathetic beta AFC *boyfriend* will seek out answers to his [probably] painful experience. It's times like that when I wish Sosuave had a business card with a great slogan and simple web address. I would have handed it to the chump - he looked like he was ready for it.

 

[Luthor Rex]

I realize the OP didn't ask this question, but I'll leave this here for you anyway, so you can have some ammo. Here is what happened to me one time.

Me: "Let's go out to xxx this weekend."

Girl: "I can't, I have a boyfriend."

Me: "Well don't bring him."

Girl: *laughing*

She was still friendly with me after that, though nothing ever happened between us. I still think that my humor in this potential moment of great awkwardness helped smooth things out and let her still feel comfortable with me. This was a woman who I interacted with one a regular basis, so bad blood between us would have caused problems for quite a while.

 

[decades]

who says "boyfriend disclaimer"?

 

[squirrels]

Depends on the context in which she says it.

Once you reach this age, any marginally attractive girl is more than likely going to have a "boyfriend".

I don't understand the whole "boyfriend/girlfriend" angle in this century. It's like now, within 2 or 3 months, a boyfriend/girlfriend are already moving in together. Then they buy the dog...it's like a kid that you don't need a babysitter for.

A couple of kids rushing into a commitment they don't understand and aren't ready for, feeling like it's the "proper" thing to be doing at their age and not for any other reason, trying to act like there's no REAL commitment because the rings haven't been exchanged yet, but really getting STUCK in what promises to end in either a f*cked-up marriage or a f*cked-up break-up.

God, I see these people...half the time it just seems like a lie to reinforce their egos. Some people are cool with being a little dead inside, because it gives them the opportunity to raise a family or do something else that they think matters. In other cases, I've seen families that I thought looked SO good together, like two people who seemed to be madly in love and even got ALONG great, then one day they just BREAK UP. WHY?? Doesn't make any damned sense.

I don't trust relationships any more. I've had girls getting frisky with me right in front of their boyfriends. I've had girls LIVING with guys, with houses and cars and pets together, going to all those couples-oriented events and the girl is MISERABLE with this guy and trying to "make it work" because it seems like the right thing to do and is afraid her ego would be damaged if she can't "make a happy home"...and at the same time she's making out with me in the backseat of my car, trying to act like it's not CHEATING if she doesn't let me take her pants off. I've seen girls who are fed up with their boyfriends...how they never have enough time or money or drive to do anything fun, or how they're possessive and stalker-ish, who take off and fool around with me, and then go running RIGHT back into his arms because she feels like it's the "right" thing to do to have a steady man. I've seen women who I've told straight-out that I don't want a relationship with them try for MONTHS to try to turn me around and make a dullard boyfriend out of me. And I've seen women declare their love to me and then turn around and drop me for someone they believed was more "attainable".

I've come to one conclusion:

Any relationship that does not naturally sustain itself, without intense effort, compromise, or a need for constant discussion and reaffirmation of its "status", is an exercise in foolishness.

I know all you guys packing girlfriends or wives might hate me for saying that. I don't care. The way the modern world makes a science out of "relationship management" is a f**king joke in bad taste and is responsible for the f**king up of both men's and women's heads when it comes to "relationship management".

Just another example of people creating a science out of something so they can be "experts" in it and lend their random opinions based on their own dysfunctional lives be stated as some "expert testimony".

I've had more love for some of my one-night stands than certain "happy couples" have in their entire f**king relationships.

You can't choose any member of your family save one. There is NO better time for you to be honest with yourself than when making that decision.

Since "boyfriend" today means an unusual level of commitment, there is NOTHING wrong with testing whether a woman with a "boyfriend" is TRULY into the relationship. But it's not a test of whether she's faithful to him, but whether in being faithful to him, she's being faithful to HERSELF.

If she IS, and she truly BELIEVES the sh!t she's spouting, then yes, you LEAVE HER ALONE.

If she DOESN'T believe it, then it becomes imperative upon you to find out what she DOES believe.

Women seem to get off on this kind of image-shattering...it brings drama into their lives. Puts them in the "romance novel" setting.

Sometimes I wonder if women jump into "relationships" so they can have a guy to leave for the guy they REALLY fall in love with. You know, just like those girls in the movies.

Drama queens. Jeezus.

I don't know why people can't just be honest with themselves.

[/rant]

 

[Jeffst1980]

Depends on the context in which she says it.

Once you reach this age, any marginally attractive girl is more than likely going to have a "boyfriend".

I don't understand the whole "boyfriend/girlfriend" angle in this century. It's like now, within 2 or 3 months, a boyfriend/girlfriend are already moving in together. Then they buy the dog...it's like a kid that you don't need a babysitter for.

A couple of kids rushing into a commitment they don't understand and aren't ready for, feeling like it's the "proper" thing to be doing at their age and not for any other reason, trying to act like there's no REAL commitment because the rings haven't been exchanged yet, but really getting STUCK in what promises to end in either a f*cked-up marriage or a f*cked-up break-up.

God, I see these people...half the time it just seems like a lie to reinforce their egos. Some people are cool with being a little dead inside, because it gives them the opportunity to raise a family or do something else that they think matters. In other cases, I've seen families that I thought looked SO good together, like two people who seemed to be madly in love and even got ALONG great, then one day they just BREAK UP. WHY?? Doesn't make any damned sense.

I don't trust relationships any more. I've had girls getting frisky with me right in front of their boyfriends. I've had girls LIVING with guys, with houses and cars and pets together, going to all those couples-oriented events and the girl is MISERABLE with this guy and trying to "make it work" because it seems like the right thing to do and is afraid her ego would be damaged if she can't "make a happy home"...and at the same time she's making out with me in the backseat of my car, trying to act like it's not CHEATING if she doesn't let me take her pants off. I've seen girls who are fed up with their boyfriends...how they never have enough time or money or drive to do anything fun, or how they're possessive and stalker-ish, who take off and fool around with me, and then go running RIGHT back into his arms because she feels like it's the "right" thing to do to have a steady man. I've seen women who I've told straight-out that I don't want a relationship with them try for MONTHS to try to turn me around and make a dullard boyfriend out of me. And I've seen women declare their love to me and then turn around and drop me for someone they believed was more "attainable".

I've come to one conclusion:

Any relationship that does not naturally sustain itself, without intense effort, compromise, or a need for constant discussion and reaffirmation of its "status", is an exercise in foolishness.

I know all you guys packing girlfriends or wives might hate me for saying that. I don't care. The way the modern world makes a science out of "relationship management" is a f**king joke in bad taste and is responsible for the f**king up of both men's and women's heads when it comes to "relationship management".

Just another example of people creating a science out of something so they can be "experts" in it and lend their random opinions based on their own dysfunctional lives be stated as some "expert testimony".

I've had more love for some of my one-night stands than certain "happy couples" have in their entire f**king relationships.

You can't choose any member of your family save one. There is NO better time for you to be honest with yourself than when making that decision.

Since "boyfriend" today means an unusual level of commitment, there is NOTHING wrong with testing whether a woman with a "boyfriend" is TRULY into the relationship. But it's not a test of whether she's faithful to him, but whether in being faithful to him, she's being faithful to HERSELF.

If she IS, and she truly BELIEVES the sh!t she's spouting, then yes, you LEAVE HER ALONE.

If she DOESN'T believe it, then it becomes imperative upon you to find out what she DOES believe.

Women seem to get off on this kind of image-shattering...it brings drama into their lives. Puts them in the "romance novel" setting.

Sometimes I wonder if women jump into "relationships" so they can have a guy to leave for the guy they REALLY fall in love with. You know, just like those girls in the movies.

Drama queens. Jeezus.

I don't know why people can't just be honest with themselves.

[/rant]

Squirrels gets it. A healthy relationship is NEVER complicated in the way we discuss them on this site. The things people in healthy relationships clash on are financial and child rearing manners--and even these are done in a calm, respectful manner. There ARE no suspicions of infidelity, s#it tests, or "girl drama." If you are dealing with ANY of those, it's not worth fixing. This is why marital counseling is so ineffective.

The longer I'm here, the more I realize that most of the answers to our questions can be answered quite simply by some of the timeless posts in the DJ Bible, and that all of our tactical strategizing is really just misplaced energy. You can have all the DJ tools in the world and have a strategy for handling every issue that comes up, but you're STILL going to be far behind the average joe with NO knowledge of this stuff that happened to stumble upon a great, giving, loyal girl. That's not to romanticize the blissfully ignorant--just to say that I think that all the energy spent on fixing relationships should be redirected towards finding a relationship that DOESN'T need fixing.

It's very sad to think that most of the guys that post their problems here are not going to have the outcome they ultimately desire, despite all the great advice they receive. For the guy that hypothetically comes here and follows our advice on how to react when his girl goes out with her friends instead of him on new years' eve, that advice might buy him some time and extend the relationship a bit longer, but it's not going to turn things around in the long run. The advice here effectively treats the symptoms, but not the disease.

In hindsight, "Next her bro" is actually pretty good advice.

 

[Mr. Me]

I don't understand the whole "boyfriend/girlfriend" angle in this century. It's like now, within 2 or 3 months, a boyfriend/girlfriend are already moving in together. Then they buy the dog...it's like a kid that you don't need a babysitter for.

A couple of kids rushing into a commitment they don't understand and aren't ready for

What is happening, squirrels, is that these folks are rushing into relationships with people they don't know. They also have probably ignored flags, either because "but she's hot" trumps their common sense or because they naively put their faith in false beliefs ("What she did in the past doesn't matter") or genuinely don't know what a real flag is. Whether or not they get involved with that person because they're lonely or needy is another story, but then comes the day that she shows her true colors and now, they're living together and have emotions mingled in and it becomes a matter of the cow has left the barn and the barn doors are closed and they're trying to get the cow back into the barn. And you see thread after thread with the theme, "what do I do now to correct this?"

Which is why this makes more sense:

I think that all the energy spent on fixing relationships should be redirected towards finding a relationship that DOESN'T need fixing.

I get knocked by my friends that I'm too picky, I'm too hard, I run too much of a tight ship, I'm too merciless, and they see me without a girl a lot, while they go through woman after woman not being able to hold onto anyone and get bumped around in the process. The truth is I've been in lots of relationships and learned, the hard way, that I have to make better choices both in selection and management and in ending things quickly when it's not right. Even if I have to do without. They haven't learned that. But nowadays, when I do have a girl on my arm, it's pretty close to almost perfect.

 

[jophil28]

The way the modern world makes a science out of "relationship management" is a f**king joke in bad taste and is responsible for the f**king up of both men's and women's heads when it comes to "relationship management".

Just another example of people creating a science out of something so they can be "experts" in it and lend their random opinions based on their own dysfunctional lives be stated as some "expert testimony".
[/rant]

Yes - exactly right. WE have a couple of these 'experts' here.
Relationships ain't science, and creating one is not scientific....every LTR that i have had flowed easily and without much planning.
I never knew or needed to know how to dismantle their " I have a boyfriend .." shield.. I never knew or agonised about rejection buffers or ASD or any of the myriad tips and tricks promoted as "pickup tactics" . I never heard about or experienced " LJBFs" until I was almost 50 years old.
EVERY LTR that I had seemed to take shape easily and without much conscious effort. THe women had high IL . I had high IL and so we got together. And I am not a "natural" or a player...I just got their numbers and " asked women out" in my own oldfashioned and untrained way.
Granted, the vast majority of these women eventually passed into history ...they were not my cup of tea, or I was not their's. MOst LTRs just get old and lack the juice to sustain them . I get bored at about the 18 month mark.

The most valuable lessons that I have learned from this site are NOT how to attract or date woman. The lessons I have learned here are purely how to spot a loonie early enough to eject and land safely.

 

[jophil28]

There ARE no suspicions of infidelity, s#it tests, or "girl drama." If you are dealing with ANY of those, it's not worth fixing. This is why marital counseling is so ineffective.

.

Marriage counseling is just another manufactured industry to provide an income for third rate professionals.

Jeff has it right.
A "quality " LTR does NOT have mindless sh!t tests, drama, infidelity and lies, nor does it have you trying to "deal with " her male "friends" . IF she is 'setting you up' to compete for her time and attention then you are with someone who is not fit to be with you.
Quality woman are NOT a myth. They are just very rare.

I have been to several "couples counseling " sessions. In hindsight we were trying to repair the unfixable because I had a woman (like most ) who was living a life of extended adolescence. IT NEVER WORKED worth a damn.
I would have been much better off just leaving the LTR and adopting Mr Me's approach of raising my standards .

 

[STR8UP]

God, I see these people...half the time it just seems like a lie to reinforce their egos. Some people are cool with being a little dead inside, because it gives them the opportunity to raise a family or do something else that they think matters.

Most people are deathly afraid of being alone. They would rather amble along through life with shackles than face the prospect of being single. And of course some folks stay in relationships because they think it's "the right thing to do" or because it adds "purpose" to their existence.

I don't trust relationships any more. I've had girls getting frisky with me right in front of their boyfriends. I've had girls LIVING with guys, with houses and cars and pets together, going to all those couples-oriented events and the girl is MISERABLE with this guy and trying to "make it work" because it seems like the right thing to do and is afraid her ego would be damaged if she can't "make a happy home"...and at the same time she's making out with me in the backseat of my car, trying to act like it's not CHEATING if she doesn't let me take her pants off. I've seen girls who are fed up with their boyfriends...how they never have enough time or money or drive to do anything fun, or how they're possessive and stalker-ish, who take off and fool around with me, and then go running RIGHT back into his arms because she feels like it's the "right" thing to do to have a steady man.

A lot of guys are in denial about this. I've made a couple of posts about how meaningless a relationship is to most women. It's usually met with hostility by the guys who have ego investments in believing otherwise. But I've seen it. I've been part of it. On BOTH ends. I know how it works.

I've seen women who I've told straight-out that I don't want a relationship with them try for MONTHS to try to turn me around and make a dullard boyfriend out of me. And I've seen women declare their love to me and then turn around and drop me for someone they believed was more "attainable".

I've posted about this as well. The alpha does not always win. Sometimes a woman will drop the alpha for the beta provider who wants the same dog, children, and white picket fence that she does. I was blindsided by one of those awhile back.

Then after everything came to light, her best friend tried to tell me "But you know she didn't have sex with him until after she left you, right?" Hahahahaha! Yea, that's why the sex tapered off and the birthday pu$$y (right before she emailed me about being with this other guy) sucked. Women are so full of sh!t......

I've come to one conclusion:

Any relationship that does not naturally sustain itself, without intense effort, compromise, or a need for constant discussion and reaffirmation of its "status", is an exercise in foolishness.

A man leaves the house at 9am to go to work. If he has to come home at 5 to ANOTHER "job" for the rest of his life he might as well put a bullet in his head and end it.

I know all you guys packing girlfriends or wives might hate me for saying that. I don't care.

They do. It's the main form of "ego investment" which I mentioned.

Since "boyfriend" today means an unusual level of commitment, there is NOTHING wrong with testing whether a woman with a "boyfriend" is TRULY into the relationship.

The commitment is implied, but not often practiced.

I would venture to guess that 50-75% of unmarried women are "less than happy" with their current relationship at any given time.

Guys who say "Don't mess with chicks who have b/f's....there are plenty of single ones out there" are in complete denial. MOST attractive women have something going on most of the time.

Women seem to get off on this kind of image-shattering...it brings drama into their lives. Puts them in the "romance novel" setting.

Women? Nawwwww.......

I don't know why people can't just be honest with themselves.

[/rant]

Law 32​

Play to People’s Fantasies​

The truth is often avoided because it is ugly and unpleasant. Never appeal to truth and reality unless you are prepared for the anger that comes for disenchantment. Life is so harsh and distressing that people who can manufacture romance or conjure up fantasy are like oases in the desert: Everyone flocks to them. There is great power in tapping into the fantasies of the masses.​

 

[Jitterbug]

Squirrels gets it. A healthy relationship is NEVER complicated in the way we discuss them on this site. The things people in healthy relationships clash on are financial and child rearing manners--and even these are done in a calm, respectful manner. There ARE no suspicions of infidelity, s#it tests, or "girl drama." If you are dealing with ANY of those, it's not worth fixing. This is why marital counseling is so ineffective.

The longer I'm here, the more I realize that most of the answers to our questions can be answered quite simply by some of the timeless posts in the DJ Bible, and that all of our tactical strategizing is really just misplaced energy. You can have all the DJ tools in the world and have a strategy for handling every issue that comes up, but you're STILL going to be far behind the average joe with NO knowledge of this stuff that happened to stumble upon a great, giving, loyal girl. That's not to romanticize the blissfully ignorant--just to say that I think that all the energy spent on fixing relationships should be redirected towards finding a relationship that DOESN'T need fixing.

It's very sad to think that most of the guys that post their problems here are not going to have the outcome they ultimately desire, despite all the great advice they receive. For the guy that hypothetically comes here and follows our advice on how to react when his girl goes out with her friends instead of him on new years' eve, that advice might buy him some time and extend the relationship a bit longer, but it's not going to turn things around in the long run. The advice here effectively treats the symptoms, but not the disease.

In hindsight, "Next her bro" is actually pretty good advice.

The gist of your post is essentially similar to the Anti-Dump Machine in the DJ Bible, which was radically different to 99% of the stuff out there. Pook also pointed that out when he compiled Anti-Dump's posts into the Machine.

The more I read from this forum, the more I can see that most of the tactics I've learned although are fun (since I do enjoy learning & discussing social dynamics & psychology) but ultimately, as you called it, misplaced energy, and for a healthy relationship, I'm far better off with something simple like Anti-Dump Machine and "love the way I want to love" to ruthlessly weed out incompatible women.

 

[iqqi]

Of course all that begs the question; if she's so involved with her BF why is she sitting there partying with her friends, on a GNO, or otherwise putting herself into a position / environment where a guy might approach and open her? Why isn't she with the BF now, or at least planning her next step with him instead?

Yes, why, why WHY!??

WHY does she still have friends!?

How insane, how ridiculous, how downright disrespectful of that lying ****!

WHY does she still go out and have a life?!

She should be sitting at home knitting quilts EVERY NIGHT For the rest of her life now that she has a "boyfriend"! Because everyone knows the only reason a woman leaves the house in the name of "fun" and "entertainment", it is to find some other guy to fvck!

HOW DARE she be around other males of the species without YOU there to make SURE she doesn't spread those legs that are YOURS now?

Lol.

Not much has changed 'round these parts.

I don't believe anyone with any kind of confidence believes this crap.

 

[Bass-Turd]

Lol saying a real woman will never disappoint you is the same thing a woman says in reverse

Like there is supposed to be some magical man out there who will come and fix everything, then life will be happy forever and ever

like wise a woman you meet should only be attracted you you and you only. you should be the only male in her life. She won't have males friends, As she lacks the ability to communicate with them any longer, and her female friends are all nuns

Her nights of "fun" include only nights with you. her whole world revolves around you

...Please, the sooner you guys stop spouting this fairytale BS, the sooner you'll realize that relationships (while not perfect) are only as good as the people in them.

You get back what you put in. A good relationship does require work and effort. It shouldn't be a pain in the ass, but it still requires that you get off you lazy ass and whoo your lady

 

[Jeffst1980]

The gist of your post is essentially similar to the Anti-Dump Machine in the DJ Bible, which was radically different to 99% of the stuff out there. Pook also pointed that out when he compiled Anti-Dump's posts into the Machine.

The more I read from this forum, the more I can see that most of the tactics I've learned although are fun (since I do enjoy learning & discussing social dynamics & psychology) but ultimately, as you called it, misplaced energy, and for a healthy relationship, I'm far better off with something simple like Anti-Dump Machine and "love the way I want to love" to ruthlessly weed out incompatible women.

You know, when I first came here I dismissed the Anti-Dump Machine simply because it seemed overly simplistic and completely unfeasible in this day and age. I wanted to get laid using PUA tactics!! The whole notion that pickup is "sexual chess" really appealed to me then.

What I didn't know then is that the minute you start playing chess in your relationships, you've already lost. If you're constantly on guard, countering her every move, you don't have a relationship, you have a GAME.

The Anti-Dump Machine is actually a brilliant system of weeding out girls that ultimately would make bad life partners. It seems way too selective at first, but that's the whole point. It's hard to find a good girl.

I think that everyone ultimately needs to find out this stuff for themselves, though. Go out and try the pickup thing--if nothing else, you'll come away with great social skills and an ability to be comfortable around women. You have plenty of time to settle down with a quality woman later, and there's something to be said for just experiencing things. Why enjoy the process?

 

[jophil28]

What I didn't know then is that the minute you start playing chess in your relationships, you've already lost. If you're constantly on guard, countering her every move, you don't have a relationship, you have a GAME.

?

Bingo!

Not only a GAME , but an adversarial GAME in which there is a perceived winner and a loser.If the game progresses daily ,the REAL winner and loser emerge and earn their respective labels according to who played the most convincing and committed GAME.
Put another way, in these kinds of relationships, for you to get what you want, you have to be ever vigilant , cunning, calculating , sometimes duplicitous and above all , tactical. YOu have to OUTSMART and OUTPLAY another person... the same person for whom you claim to have a strong emotional attachment !
These 'games' may have a place in the first few weeks when she is testing you or trying to make you jump through hoops to test her power and control and you need to counter, but if you are still playing cat and mouse stuff six months in, you have a decaying relationship which is just all WRONG.