How do you balance the two sides?

[satelliteparties]

By two sides...I mean the part of you that knows the game, how a lot of women really are, etc., and the part that despite all of that, would like a best friend/lover someday?

Or even just...knowing the game...but wanting to be close to a woman, at least close enough where you respect her.

It seems the past few months, I've gone through a transformation (based on my own experiences, experiences of my friends, experiences of those on this site and other online sites...also seeing women on online dating sites) and because of that don't even seem to enjoy talking to most women beyond casual conversation, and even that just seems like a necessary evil to try to get it to the sexual intimacy point.

Last year, I didn't have women on pedestals...but I was more open to the idea of finding "someone special" and would enjoy even convos with women from pof and the like. Now, it just seems like "Let's get from A to B so I can get laid" and seem to think most women, while different in certain ways, have the same core personality...will dump a guy in an instant for something better...can't help but party...play games...yada, yada yada...and almost makes me look at women as strictly "finding one not as douchey as the others so her personality doesn't get in the way of enjoying banging her."

The thing is, though, a part of me deep down likes talking to women...even if it's just casual, and not "getting deep" with them or falling for them...but recently I don't seem to enjoy it at all, in person or online, and just look at them as strictly sex objects and nothing else...and I never used to be like this.

Is there a middle ground, where you can enjoy's women's company without going back to the AFC roots?

 

[DMSR76]

I definitely understand where you're coming from. I too have had a problem taking women seriously of late. The moment I'm presented with red flags, I immediately think of women solely as sex objects. I must admit things haven't been very fun lately.

I think that once you begin to see the world for what it truly is, it's easy to fall into funks in which you lose confidence in the idea of virtuous women existing. When that happens, it may be a good idea to take a step back from things. That could mean different things to different people, but for me it means a reluctance to visit my usual haunts and to deal with my usual demographic of woman.

I have a primary plate who's proven to be a solid candidate for LTR. This ironically hasn't helped improve my outlook on women overall, because practically every other woman I meet pales in comparison to her in terms of getting the basics right. What do I mean? Western social conventions have deteriorated to the point that social retardation is now a widespread phenomenon. (As an aside: I find that this is especially the case in the Black community of which I'm a part and have spent most of my time. Some may disagree, but I feel it only fair to mention that what I'm experiencing may be influenced by some cultural component.) Many women are no longer familiar with the basics: common courtesy, femininity, and reciprocity. It underwhelms me.

I think there can indeed be a middle ground, but the cold, hard reality is that it takes lots and lots of filtering to find someone worthy of your time such that you can move towards that middle ground.

Good luck brother. You are not alone.

 

[zekko]

By two sides...I mean the part of you that knows the game, how a lot of women really are, etc., and the part that despite all of that, would like a best friend/lover someday?

I have a best friend/lover of eight years now, so I know it is possible. I know that things could change or end at any time, but that would not change the experience. I think eight years is a pretty good run, no matter what happens from here on out.

I do think that most women today are low quality trash, but that doesn't change the fact that you can find a diamond in the rough once in a while. The key thing is to keep improving yourself so that when you do find the right women, you will be a man of value and won't blow it with stupid beginner type mistakes.

 

[Boilermaker]

I have a best friend/lover of eight years now, so I know it is possible. I know that things could change or end at any time, but that would not change the experience. I think eight years is a pretty good run, no matter what happens from here on out.

Good old rationalization at work. If you spend eight years with someone, ..., anyone, you are bound to think she's a "best friend" anyway.

You have to be ten times more careful not to believe in what you want to believe after 8 exclusive years with her. I think you cannot be an authority on whether best friend/lover can actually be possible or not.

 

[Die Hard]

satelliteparties, I think this thread will be interesting to you: http://sosuave.net/forum/showthread.php?t=183404


My take on your question? Yes, there's a middle ground...the problem is reaching it. You have to deal with yourself, it's all about yourself, not about the women.

There's a need inside of us and we try to fulfill this need through the interaction with a woman. Note that this need creates the expectation that she fulfills it... Anyway, I guess that need is inside each and every one of us and it will always be inside of us, but the size of that need is variable!
When the need (thus the expectation) is too big, a woman will not be able to fulfill it. You'll even end up hurt and dissapointed when you go to her with this need/expectation!! We've all experienced this....


So what's the damn solution to this problem? Most of us turn to the same "solutions", like the following:

1. We decide to give up on women altogether. When we try to deal with them, we end up hurt and dissapointed anyway, right?! So it's better to just give op on them...

2. We come to the conclusion that avoiding them isn't gonna make us happy either and that we have to deal with them after all. So we bring our ass back to the battleground... But this time we come prepared! We bury our need/expectation deeeeeep away! "Let's just FVCK these hoe's!! Who cares about anything else but their bodies?!" But sooner or later, we come to realize that this isn't the solution either. That goddamn need we buried deeeep away, will start festering and growing inside of us like some ulcer... Eventually, we'll have to deal with it after all, it will not be ignored!


What's the proper solution? Well, before we take that need/expectation to women, we need to cut down it's size. That means we have to fulfill part of it ourselves! It means you have to improve yourself, just like SoSuave teaches: Getting good with women is a result of becoming a DJ, it is not the essence of becoming a DJ! The essence is improving yourself and your life in the broadest sense, it means becoming the best 'you' that you can be, fulfiiling your potential, becoming 'whole'. Then, after that need/expectation has been downsized, we can take it to women and let them fulfill the remaining part.

But this all is a circular, iterative process! You don't improve yourself first, and then start approaching women. No...dealing with women and improving yourself go hand in hand, they work in conjunction, just like the two pedals on your bike do. You'll go to women with your oversized need/expectation and be forced to adjust the size. So you bite a chunk out of your oversized need/expectation, get back to the interaction, will be forced to adjust the size some more...and so forth and so forth.

Constant interaction with women will constantly force you to keep focusing on your own process.


The middle ground you're looking for exists, but you can only reach it through hard work and persistence. Get out there, constantly interact with women, constantly improve yourself. Be persistent at this for a long time, and you'll reach that middle ground eventually.

 

[zekko]

Good old rationalization at work. If you spend eight years with someone, ..., anyone, you are bound to think she's a "best friend" anyway.

You have to be ten times more careful not to believe in what you want to believe after 8 exclusive years with her. I think you cannot be an authority on whether best friend/lover can actually be possible or not.

I'm not sure I understand what you're getting act.
This girl has been my best friend and lover for the last eight years, that is a fact. So obviously it is possible. Whatever happens from here on out does not change that.

You seem to be implying that relationships have to last forever in order for them to be worthwhile. I think nothing could be further from the truth. Life changes, things run their course. There were many good friends from my childhood/teen years that I am no longer in contact with. People come and go from your life over time. It doesn't mean those relationships were not worthwhile. A Long Term Relationship is not necessarily a Forever Term Relationship.

 

[Buddha_Mind]

I suppose the hope and desire of the LTR is to continue growing and expanding. Life brings us to new planes of experience, and we hope that the woman we have with us will come to those places too...but there are no guarantees in life -- everything is a learning experience, that's for sure.

But there are cases where people grow incredibly close...we see this all of the time (although a lot of the focus on this forum is failure rather than success...ie, getting into the nitty-gritty of problems and errors, rather than showing more positive examples of success)...there are couples who are married 15-20+ years and are happy. Doesn't mean they didn't have their struggles. There are couples too where one passes away, not long after so too does the other. Loyalty is a hard thing to find in life sometimes in general -- male or female. And a lot of people like to give up on things because most people (a) probably don't know what they really want, and (b) have strange values and ideas of reality because of our television/media-saturated existence.

 

[drak_ool]

I do think that most women today are low quality trash, but that doesn't change the fact that you can find a diamond in the rough once in a while.

quoted for truth! I personally don't see "knowledge of game" and "desire to find a special woman" as two opposites. Instead I believe that the more game you have, the better chance you have of finding that special girl.

In a way it's a numbers' game: if you only approach 5 girls in your life what are the chances one of them will be a quality chick? slim

Then comes the abundance mentality: in the above example, if the 6th girl you approach doesn't reject you, you will gladly settle for her, no matter her flaws because you cannot do any better. If you have game and spin plates, then you truly can choose between various women.

Before I found my current GF, I went through life for about 3 years thinking most women were worth nothing more beyond the sex. I was still open to finding a "special" chick, however I looked at reality with my eyes wide open, and all I could see around me were ****ty women. So I fvcked the hot ones without investing too much emotions into them.

I met my gf at the top of my game. Very soon I knew she was head and shoulders above the rest of the pack. But the only way I was able to tell was because I had been dealing with "the rest of the pack" for a while and saw most women for what they really are.