Help Understanding Losing Fat While Gaining Muscle!

[Jerry Maguire]

I need help understanding what hasn't fully been explained on the sites I've looked at.
I want to gain muscle but at the same time drop 6-8lbs of fat so I have visable abs.
To lose weight, or fat, you need to maintain a calorie deficit.
To gain weight, or muscle, you need to maintain a calorie surplus.

How do I attain my goal?
Eat enough calories to build muscle (3000) or so, and do lots of low intensity cardio to burn fat?
Do I HAVE to go through phases of cutting and bulking?
Or is there another way that I don't understand?

Thanks in advance.

 

[Warboss Alex]

To lose weight, or fat, you need to maintain a calorie deficit.
To gain weight, or muscle, you need to maintain a calorie surplus.

Hmmmmm.. who says?

Most articles/websites would have you thinking in 24hr periods. So, if you are in a calorie surplus by the end of the day, you gain weight (muscle and/or fat). If you're in a deficit by the end of the day, you lose weight (muscle and/or fat).

That's not true.. say you were in a calorie deficit the first half of the day through cardio/calorie restriction (plus low carbs to keep insulin levels low and fat burning alive) and you lose weight/fat/muscle that part of the day. Then you work out at noon, and eat a calorie surplus for the rest of the day. You gain muscle/weight/fat the second half of the day.

The net calorie result of this sytem may well be zero. I.e. you eat 500 calories under 'maintainance' for half the day, and the other half you eat 500 over 'maintainance'. But the net result is actually a small amount of muscle gained and fat lost (provided the food you eat is of the correct type and quantity).

Muscle gain and fat loss are down to nutrient availability and hormonal responses at certain times of day, not just at the end of the day. You're gaining (or losing) muscle every second of the day and losing (or gaining) fat every second of the day too.

A good strategy for people wanting to lose fat and gain muscle would be to keep calories high (and clean), meaning high protein, moderate fat and carbohydrates appropriate to their body types. Some body types do better on low carbs and high fat. Others mod carb mod fat. Depends on you. Everyone has their sweet spot.

Throughout the day your high protein intake, high vegetable intake (both protein and vegetables are thermogenic) plus lots of water, green tea and cardio/high activity levels keep your metabolism running hot, which in turn helps to mop up excess calories/potential fat gain caused by your eating, as well as more efficient nutrient partitioning and insulin sensitivity.

The net result of this (high clean calories suited to your body type with high protein and vegetables intake + cardio, green/white tea, high metabolic activity + heavy lifting) will be a change in body composition, muscle gained and fat lost.

Warning: this is a gradual change and won't give you incredible results overnight (nothing will) - if you want to lose 10lbs of fat and gain 10lbs this will work just fine. But if you want to gain (or lose) 50lbs then you'll most likely be frustrated as it'll take you a while to get there.

(and if your goal -IS- to gain 50lbs while losing fat at the same time (or keeping your abs crisp), reassess your goals..)

 

[Royce]

Simple, Eat more, workout hard, and add in light, but long cardio sessions to negate the fat accumulation.

 

[Jerry Maguire]

Hmmmmm.. who says?

Most articles/websites would have you thinking in 24hr periods. So, if you are in a calorie surplus by the end of the day, you gain weight (muscle and/or fat). If you're in a deficit by the end of the day, you lose weight (muscle and/or fat).

That's not true.. say you were in a calorie deficit the first half of the day through cardio/calorie restriction (plus low carbs to keep insulin levels low and fat burning alive) and you lose weight/fat/muscle that part of the day. Then you work out at noon, and eat a calorie surplus for the rest of the day. You gain muscle/weight/fat the second half of the day.

The net calorie result of this sytem may well be zero. I.e. you eat 500 calories under 'maintainance' for half the day, and the other half you eat 500 over 'maintainance'. But the net result is actually a small amount of muscle gained and fat lost (provided the food you eat is of the correct type and quantity).

So, for example, if I was to have a calorie deficit for the first half of the day and a calorie surplus for the rest of the day,
say I was to work out in the evening
doesn't the broken down muscle need regular calorie surplus to repair and grow?
even if I was to have a meal or a shake after my evening work out, wouldn't muscle repair and growth be hindered because the next morning I'd have a calorie deficit?

Or is that the whole point, this method won't be as effective as cutting and bulking?

I really appreciate your insight by the way

 

[Quiksilver]

Since quite a bit of muscle repair is done immediately postworkout, stacking a substantial part of your diet immediately before and immediately after your workout will ensure enough calories will go to your muscles. Eating at a slight deficit the rest of the day would produce fat loss.

I do 30-60 minutes of cardio every morning, and eat normally up until my workout, where I stack most of the easy calories(whey + carbs).

So the cardio emphasizes fat loss during the morning and for a few hours around workout my muscles are also being repaired. When you sleep, of course you lose fat and your muscle repairs itself at the same time.

I have to go do morning cardio now

cheers

 

[Warboss Alex]

Or is that the whole point, this method won't be as effective as cutting and bulking?

On a day-to-day basis, it's slower and not as effective, no. But it might get you the same results as a 3 month bulk and a 3 month cut over 6 months. It depends on the situation.

Like I said, for someone who wants to lose 10lbs of fat and gain 10lbs of muscle and is patient, it's the best way to do things in my opinion. For someone who wants to gain 40lbs (or lose 40lbs) - it's not the best way. Can it still be done this way? Sure but it'll take a long while.

In general:
- The fastest way to gain weight would be to eat high calories (surplus) and high carbs, but that would lead to fat gain. (the traditional bulk)
- The fastest way to lose weight would be to eat low calories and do lots of cardio including high intensity, but this leads to muscle and strength loss. (the traditional cut)
As I said, that's what generally happens. You will get people who stay lean eating 1000g of carbs a day but they're the exception, and if you're that sort of person you wouldn't be asking for advice on here anyway.

Calories aren't the only factor in gaining/repairing muscle. Hormonal levels and the availability of protein (on a second to second basis NOT over a 24hr period) are what's important. So provided your test levels aren't those of a castrated eunuch and there's enough protein around, you can gain (a little) muscle even in a calorie deficit. Of course, if you eat 1000 calories under maintainance and you're using all the protein you eat for fuel, you will lose muscle as there won't be enough to repair it plus you catabolise your own lean tissue.

In the same vein, provided your metabolic rate is high enough, and your insulin levels are low enough, you can burn (a little) fat even in a calorie surplus.

But to truly optimise muscle gain and fat loss, yeah, you should be in a continual calorie surplus and calorie deficit respectively.

 

[I-tallionStallion]

Hey Alex, say you're taking in about 5000-6000 calories a day, 6 meals, and you cut off most carbs by the third meal. You also do about 45 minutes cardio a day and 30 minutes cardio on evenings you don't workout.

Is it still possible to lose fat and just gain muscle? Or is it more really about limiting fat gain when eating this much? This may just depend upon the person metabolism but I'd like to know your view.

 

[Warboss Alex]

Yes, of course it's possible. but 45 mins morning cardio and 30 mins evening cardio on your offdays isn't NEARLY enough exercise if you're gonna be taking in that sort of calories. Well, it might be if you're 275 and have the correct metabolism for it.

For the average 170-180lb guy they'd have to train several hours a day to stop turning into doughboys.

Cardio doesn't burn a whole lot of calories especially at that (relatively) low bodyweight. Even two 45 min cardio sessions in a day would only burn like 300-400 calories (combined), for that guy. That's still a long way to go to negate the potential fat deposition 6k calories would cause, even with low carbs.

So it'd be like, a couple of long cardio sessions, a high intensity session, weights on your weight days, 'functional' cardio like tyre flipping, sled pulling.. plus with high protein and calories (mostly from fat unless you metabolise carbs well), obviously green tea, vegetables, water, refeed days possibly more frequently than usual.

I think high calories with a high calorie output is the best way to maintaining a muscularly large physique at a low bodyfat (for natural guys anyway). And for you guys looking for the lean muscular look, it's probably the best way too. But few people have the dedication to eat/train like this and you do have to sacrifice a LOT of time to it. It works awesomely if you can do it though.

(this is assuming of course you have the digestive capability and recovery/work capacity to train/eat like this - however you can adapt if you stick with it)

 

[I-tallionStallion]

ah...I see. That explains my slowly growing waist size haha. Thanks Alex, that def answers my question

 

[JohnnyIrish]

Wow.. great info warboss!

I've been working at the whole gain lean mass while burning bf at the same time type deal myself. Its been going pretty well with gains and I have been loosing some bodyfat.. just not as fast as I'd like (yeah patience I know.. lol). I likely need to cut calories a little more.