HarryWillington offering two days for a date

[pyros]

I was listening to this podcast of his and he insists that the right way to ask a girl out is to offer two days so she can choose, for example:

you: "hey, lets go to have a beear at his irish pub. Monday or Thursday evening works for me."

He says that you should not only offer her one day, cause if she cant make it, then you have no date (?? reschedule maybe?) and you really should not say: "when are you available this week?" cause it makes you seem kind of desperate and with no value.

Do you agree? how do you normally do it?

I do not really agree with him. First, if you just offer her one day and she cannot make it, she should suggest another time if she is interested. Second, if you ask her: "when are you free this week?" you're giving her plenty of time to choose from. In this case if she declines it is obvious that she is not interested, so you can move on. However if she is interested she will tell you one day, and then you can see if it fits your schedule and arrange it.

Opinions?

 

[Partizan]

I found that his method of choosing between two days works really well for me. Almost without fail, she picks one of the 2 days. At the same time, it makes you look busy.

 

[Lotus Effect]

I've got to say that after I've become a salesman, I live in a schedule. So, with that in mind, I have to fit everything and everyone on it.

My day to day basis is up to that schedule, and when I'm arranging business meetings, I always give people 3 different spots on my schedule.

This is a good thing for two main reasons. One, you always get a day picked, or in the worst scenario, a 4th date option on the client side, and two, it shows you have some other sh*t to do besides pandering said client.

Now, change the words business meetings and client by dates and chick, and you will see that everything applies the same.

Of course, 3 dates options is too much, so 2 makes much more sense.

But despite all of that, there is one thing that makes way more sense then everything, this being...

...If a girl is interested in going out with you, she will. If she is not, she will give you countless excuses, no matter if you gave her one day, or the whole week.

A flaky girl, is an uninterested girl, and the one strike rule applies no matter what!

This is what you really should have in mind!

 

[asa_don]

it's harry wilmington, not willington.

no, i don't generally agree with most of what he says, a lot of it is made up, he is wrong on a lot of things.

i like to choose my own dates, where it is, what time it is, when i want, thats what being a man is, taking charge and being in control.

when you turn it over to the woman to choose, it becomes her date on your dime and time, that allows you to lose value, also to be flaked on much more, you are treating her to a date that she chooses, instead of you making a date you want.

if she really wants to see you, there is no need to give her options or choices, she will make damn sure that she goes out with you, there will be no struggle to get a date out of her.

the problem is, a lot of guys are too needy to get a date, they make it too obvious how much they want it, soon as she flakes saying she's busy, guys are asking right away for another day/time.

throwing out days/times makes you look like you have nothing going on with tons of free time.

i don't have a bunch of free time to do stuff, if the chick makes excuses not to meet my on my free time, then she isn't worth my time, interested women make it super easy to go out with.

dating is about what works for you, if his advice works then use it, what you want is good results.

i disagree with his method of telling men to do everything like him, not every guy is going to want to use afc advice or be an afc type of guy, it's up to each guy to figure out what works best, then go from there to achieve your success.

i also don't think its cool to call a man out in a seperate thread on a message board knocking his bad advice.

actually, harry called me out in a seperate thread where he was whining that i said he makes stuff up, although other people have made that statement too, not sure why he decided to single me out, calling me out for that.

anyway, what goes around comes around.

 

[pyros]

ok sorry, harry wilmington.

In my experience, as someone above stated, it does not matter how you do it if she is interested. Ok, if you say one day and she cant, and then you offer her any day of the week or even of the month, ok, you're doing it wrong.
But if you say something like:
you: "hey, wanna go do X at Y place sometime this week?"
she either says yes or no. If she says yes, then you tell her one day or two days, it does not matter. If she can make it, thats it. If she says she cant, and does not give you an alternative day and doesnt seem to worry about not meeting you, she is not into you.

Easy, I think.

 

[Pardner]

you: "hey, lets go to have a beear at his irish pub. Monday or Thursday evening works for me."

It looks like you are drunk writing this.

I was listening to this podcast of his and he insists that the right way to ask a girl out is to offer two days so she can choose, for example:

you: "hey, lets go to have a beear at his irish pub. Monday or Thursday evening works for me."

He says that you should not only offer her one day, cause if she cant make it, then you have no date (?? reschedule maybe?) and you really should not say: "when are you available this week?" cause it makes you seem kind of desperate and with no value.

Do you agree? how do you normally do it?

I do not really agree with him. First, if you just offer her one day and she cannot make it, she should suggest another time if she is interested. Second, if you ask her: "when are you free this week?" you're giving her plenty of time to choose from. In this case if she declines it is obvious that she is not interested, so you can move on. However if she is interested she will tell you one day, and then you can see if it fits your schedule and arrange it.

Opinions?

Who and what are you even talking about?

 

[zinc4]

Just do what u want...it's all about confidence... I just state me schedule and when I am free...works for me

 

[adam225]

Just do what u want...it's all about confidence... I just state me schedule and when I am free...works for me

I totally agree. There's no need for mind games when you're confident in yourself. Mind games, tricks, strategies ALWAYS fail sooner or later. Having confidence NEVER fails .

 

[Harry Wilmington]

I haven't been on this site in a few days (currently finishing up my online dating eBook), so I was pleasantly surprised when I saw my name being used in a post - about one of my podcast, no less!

However, there was a bit of a misquote in the OP's restating of my podcast notes:

I was listening to this podcast of his and he insists that the right way to ask a girl out is to offer two days so she can choose, for example:

you: "hey, lets go to have a bear at his Irish pub. Monday or Thursday evening works for me."

He says that you should not only offer her one day, cause if she cant make it, then you have no date (?? reschedule maybe?) and you really should not say: "when are you available this week?" cause it makes you seem kind of desperate and with no value.

This is close to what I said, but it's missing a few things.

I like the analogy someone used earlier about dating being similar to sales. Having done quite a few sales jobs in my life I can relate to this. I used to sell knives in people's homes back in the day (during my summer break from college one year), and while many people who do this end up selling less than $2000 worth of knives (usually within the first week), I was able to sell a grand total of over $12,000 worth of knives in the span of 2 months.

In our sales training, one of the secrets they taught us about selling was this: you always want to give the potential customer an option of choosing between buying something or buying something else. See, the human mind is already trained to make a decision between at least two things. So, if you go on a sales call and at the end of it say: "So, do you want to buy these knives or not?" The chances of you making the sale are 50% because you've given them the choice between saying "yes" to your knives or "yes" to not buying your knives - in other words, you didn't present a tangible option B, so in their head they're going to make the decision for that to be their other option.

BUT, if you say: "So, do you want to buy this knife set here or this knife set there?" The chances of you making the sale now increase to 66% or higher because you've presented them with two tangible option, giving them the choice between saying "yes" to knife set A or "yes" to knife set B. Because they now have 2 things to choose between, the third option - saying "yes" to not buying - is hardly a thought in their heads. This is why I sold so many knives and knife sets that summer - I'd always present the client with at least 2 options when I FIRST ASKED THEM FOR THE SALE. And even if they ended up not buying a whole set, most of them would still end up buying 2 or 3 knives, which was still much better than getting a "no."

This same rule applies to dating. When I used to ask girls out and only gave them one date or time to choose from, my success rate was a LOT lower. They'd either say "oh, I can't make it that day" and I'd never get to take them out, or they'd agree to the day, then call later and say "oh, I forgot I had such and such to do on that day." Now, could this be that these girls had low interest? For some of them, yes. But for others, me asking for one day only made it sound like I wasn't able to be flexible in my schedule. I also had to take into account that, just like I missed out on some things I needed to do as a man to show interest, there are women out there who haven't been taught things they need to be doing as well. As hard as it is to believe, not every girl knows about the whole counter-offer thing, and may not put one out there if they're feeling like you can only go on a date the one day you're mentioning.

Once I started giving the option of 2 different days that I'd be available, the number of dates I got was able to increase DRAMATICALLY. Now that I was giving them the choice between something and something vs. something and nothing, I'd get more "yes" responses from girls who would be free on at least one of the days I was mentioning. And, even if they said they weren't available on either day I mentioned, the number of girls who would then offer a THIRD day option that would work for them also increased. Even for girls who didn't learn about putting up counter-offers, by me mentioning a second day, it allowed them to see that I could be somewhat flexible on the day and they, too, would offer another day if the first 2 didn't work.

Lastly, giving the option of 2 days allows you to weed out a girl's interest in you pretty quickly. The thing I hated the most when I only offered 1 day is that, if they said "no" to it, a part of me would still believe they wanted to see me, and that I just had to keep trying and trying until they had time in their schedule. However, my B.S. radar was able to go off a LOT quicker when I offered 2 days because my head could now process their degree of like for me better based on their response. Like, no one is so busy that they can't find a single day out of the week to go out with me, so if I'm offering a Wednesday (weekday) and a Sunday (weekend) and they can't seem to find the time on either two days to see me, I could surmise they weren't that interested, and move on to someone else pretty quickly.

You have to understand, a lot of dating is psychological and subconscious, and this is one of those techniques that plays on the human mind's desire to choose. Give her the option of choice (as it pertains to the date day, not the actual date itself) and you should find that the number of first dates (and repeat dates) you get will increase.

Oh yeah - allow me to address one more comment:

Second, if you ask her: "when are you free this week?" you're giving her plenty of time to choose from. In this case if she declines it is obvious that she is not interested, so you can move on. However if she is interested she will tell you one day, and then you can see if it fits your schedule and arrange it.

You would think this is true, but it's not. Women don't mind making finite choices, but they don't like having the option of too many choices either. True story: I was listening to a couple talk a few weeks ago. The woman was getting frustrated with the guy, and it started off like this:

Girl: So, what do you want to do tonight?
Guy: Whatever it is you want to do.
Girl: Well, I'm cool with whatever.
Guy: Me too, whatever you decide, we'll do it
Girl: Okay, um... we could watch a movie at your place
Guy: Sure, whatever you'd like
Girl: Okay - so, what movie do you want to watch?
Guy: Whatever you want to watch
Girl: I'm cool with whatever you want to watch, anything is fine
Guy: I dunno, what do want to watch?
Girl: Geez, I wish for once you would just make a decision!

And rightfully so - do you know how many movies there are out there for a girl to choose from?? It's brain overload, AND SHE DOESN'T WANT TO HAVE TO CHOOSE BETWEEN SO MANY DANG OPTIONS. If you don't believe me, ask a couple of girl friends how they feel about having to do all this choosing for dates - I promise you, the answers you get will change your whole way of thinking.

Anyway - giving a girl the choice between 7 days is giving her too many options to have to narrow down. Furthermore, it doesn't look good on your part because it's basically telling the girl "I have no life, and I'm free whenever you're free because I like you so much and am ready to jump whenever you say jump." 2 days, however, isn't so much that she can't make a decision between them.

Furthermore, doing so is also showing courtesy to her schedule that you don't currently know about. I have found that by asking for 2 days I usually get one of four responses: one - "Either day works fine for me" (schedule is very open); two - I can't do X-day, but can do Y-day (usually women with long-hour jobs or studying for a high degree, but still interested in seeing me); three - "Those two days don't work for me, how about Z-day instead (possibly a control freak, but most likely I just picked 2 bad days - got a counter-offer, though, so still all good); or four - "sorry, I can't make either day" (no counter-offer = not interested).

That's all I got for now - hope this helps!

 

[Mr Wright]

I've always found these "debates" so meaningless because they're arguing semantics. At the end of the day if a girl wants to go out with you and she's a yes girl, you could throw her an hours window and she'd try and make it work for her. If she's not interested, you could offer up the next 5 years and she'll tell you she's moving to Poland.

The girls who are being difficult are either maybe or no girls and I've found that the quickest way to get them out is to get them to offer a day. Just something simple like "Let's go to that place I was talking about, what day are you free?" I prefer to ask for the date when I meet her but not really specify a time. So when she's thinking about you later, she can just think ""he wants to go bowling" or whatever.

As I've always said, worry about how something makes you look is stupid. I don't give a crap if I look like I have nothing else to do because if she's into she doesn't give a crap either she's just happy to spend more time with you. I remember a classic case of this, I was 19, all fresh faced, clueless and I'd met this cute Italian chick in a club. We'd spoken for not very long and I just asked to meet her the next day to show her around London. Met up the next day, went on a date, her interest was high. There were no silly games, with some girls you have to get them out ASAP, especially with cold approach. Once a girl's into you, silly things like this become irrelevant so the more time you spend worrying about it the more importance you place on it. That's when it becomes a big deal, when it becomes defining. In fact last week, a girl text me and I asked her what she was doing there and then, she was free so we were seeing each other within the hour. If I lived in certain parameters that couldn't have happened.

 

[Harry Wilmington]

I've always found these "debates" so meaningless because they're arguing semantics. At the end of the day if a girl wants to go out with you and she's a yes girl, you could throw her an hours window and she'd try and make it work for her. If she's not interested, you could offer up the next 5 years and she'll tell you she's moving to Poland.

Yeah... I wish I could agree with this, but unfortunately it's been proven too many times - both in sales and in dating - that offering a choice between something and something will result in getting the thing you want vs. the choice between something and nothing.

I was actually waiting for a way to prove this point before responding, but then I went to my facebook feed and - again, for what has to be the 18th day in a row now - saw people posting up the ALS ice bucket challenge.

Here's an interesting statistic about ALS donations (the full version of which you can read here):

From July 29 to August 12, the national office of the ALS Association has received $2.3 million in donations, compared to $25,000 in donations over the same period last year. When looking at donations association-wide (including both national and chapter revenue), the ALS Association made $4 million over this two-week period compared to $1.1 million last year.

So, what's the difference? Simple: in previous years, the association simply said "Hey people, please donate money to our cause." In other words, they were asking people to either do something (donate money) or... um... well, that was it (i.e. do nothing). The result: less donations. This year, though, what has happened is people made videos saying "Hey people, you can either donate money to ALS or dump ice water on your head - but you have to pick one, so make a decision." In other words, people are now being asked to choose between something (donate money) or something else (drenching themselves with water).

Now, not everyone that sees these vids is going to want to do either one of these "somethings" being suggested. But the results don't lie: more money is being raised for ALS because people were asked to make a choice between two things; and, as dumb as it sounds that people would agree to something as arbitrary as getting themselves wet, we are wired by design to make a choice when two things are being suggested to us.

Lastly: in reference to this whole argument that "if a girl likes you she'll accept a date however you present it to her," this is an accurate statement... for a girl that you've been seeing for a while. However, a girl you've just met may have an INTEREST in you, but that doesn't means she already LIKES you or has made a concrete decision about going out with you. So, the way you ask a girl out is a VERY important part of the process. Until you've been dating her for a while and have a better idea about how her life is running (i.e. what her job schedule is like, what days or times she likes to relax, spend time with friends, etc.), it's foolish to think this new girl is going to suddenly adhere to your schedule - thus, it's also being respectful of HER time by offering two different days, in addition to having a better success rate of getting that "yes."

 

[pyros]

so we could conclude that the main problem is actually...the girl's interest level! once again! lol.

If she has 'some' interest, depending on how you ask her out she may agree or shey may not. However, if she has high interest, it does not really matter how you do it.

P.S.
Harry, do you always offer one weekday and the weekend? or you may offer for example: saturday or sunday, or monday and wednesday?

 

[Harry Wilmington]

so we could conclude that the main problem is actually...the girl's interest level! once again! lol. If she has 'some' interest, depending on how you ask her out she may agree or shey may not. However, if she has high interest, it does not really matter how you do it.

Again, that's inaccurate. Even if you're talking to a girl and her interest is high initially, asking her out the wrong way can end up lowering her interest or deterring her from going out with you. It's like when a girl gives you her number (high interest) and then you try to call/text her 5 minutes later - doing it that soon can make her have 2nd thoughts about her initial perception of you and make interest decrease. You have to understand, the less a girl knows you (i.e. when you first meet her), the easier it is for her interest to be turned off quickly. It's the same reason why something like texting a girl all the time in the beginning will chase her away, while women who date a guy for two years are able to be more forgiving about things that are worse, like her guy cheating on her or being abusive.

In answer to your question:

Harry, do you always offer one weekday and the weekend? or you may offer for example: saturday or sunday, or monday and wednesday?

It depends on what day of the week I'm calling to ask them out. So, if I'm calling them on a Sunday or Monday, I might say "So, let's go see x-movie - are you available on Tuesday or Thursday?" I purposefully do it where I mention it 2 days apart so it doesn't come off too eager - offering "Tuesday or Wednesday" isn't as effective because, in her head, she may think that if she says "no" to either of these days my next response will be "well, how about Thursday or Friday." Plus, leaving that day in between lets her know I'm not just readily available every day of the week, i.e. I have my own life and am not just mentioning every day of the week in the hopes that you'll eventually say "yes" to whatever day I mention. Again, lots of psychological stuff here, maaaan!

Now, if I call her on a Wednesday, I ask her for either Thursday or Sunday. For new girls, I never, EVER offer Fridays or Saturdays. Why? Psychology - those two date nights are reserved for two people who have either been dating seriously for a while or are in a relationship, and asking her out on either of these nights can make it feel like I'm trying to push a relationship on her too soon. Think about how much of your time both you and her have to give up in order to do these two nights - since there's no work the next day, you could essentially be out with a girl all night. But here's the thing: because you're just taking this girl out for the first time, she is not deserving of going out with you on nights designated for couples, nor is she deserving of spending that much time with you yet. And this is something that girls feel subconsciously. This is why, in the beginning, you're more likely to have girls say "no" to a Friday or Saturday date night suggestion: you're not important enough in their life yet for them to sacrifice a day they could be spending with family, or their girlfriends, or relaxing at home with a movie.

BUT, what you'll find is, once you've been out on a few weekday/Sunday dates, the GIRL will start suggesting activities you two could get into that happen on those two days. This is another reason why it's good not to rush into the Friday/Saturday date nights: because if SHE suggests it, it's a signal to YOU that her interest in you is growing, and you need to have things set in place that allow you to make sure her interest in you is increasing as much as yours is in her (if your interest isn't high already).

 

[asa_don]

Furthermore, doing so is also showing courtesy to her schedule that you don't currently know about.

more afc advice here

you always complicate thing way too much, asking a girl out shouldn't be this difficult or take paragraphs to explain.

what about the courtesy to the man's schedule? after all, he is the one taking her out, i guess you want the man to bend over backwards to get the girl out, is that right? that is being an afc.

are the women showing the men any courtesy by rudely flaking after the man made it nice and convenient for her? i'm sure you responded to dozens of flaking threads in this forum.

girls that want to go out will tell you what days they are free, they want you to know that, you don't have to give out days or times, then you choose the day that is convenient for you to go out, thats what a man is supposed to do.

its not that hard man

 

[Jake722]

I found that his method of choosing between two days works really well for me. Almost without fail, she picks one of the 2 days. At the same time, it makes you look busy.

Agree with this. It looks bad if you make it seem like you are available any day of the week.

 

[skinnyguy]

Doesn't it depend on the girls IL?

If a girl was really into me and almost pulling my pants off, I would ask her out on a specific day.

If she was "meh" about it, I wouldn't even ask her out. I'd probably get to know her first because if she's not into you she will find an excuse to get out of it

 

[Harry Wilmington]

Doesn't it depend on the girls IL?

If a girl was really into me and almost pulling my pants off, I would ask her out on a specific day.

If she was "meh" about it, I wouldn't even ask her out. I'd probably get to know her first because if she's not into you she will find an excuse to get out of it

Ah, good question! Question: how many times have you read posts on here that goes like this:

"So, I met this girl, blah blah blah, she was all over me at the bar/party, thought she was REALLY into me... I got the number, called the next day and asked her out (activity) and she said she was busy that day..."

Just because a girl is all over you the first time she meets you doesn't mean you have her in the bag yet. On that first meeting where she's practically grabbing at you and "pulling your pants off," it could be because she likes you, or for a variety of reasons you don't know yet: she could be horny and just wants sex, regardless of who it is; she could be getting over a break up and wants to feel desired; she could be tired of being her boring old predictable self and wants to seem like a wild child for the night... the point is, you don't know. So, while it's okay to ASSUME there's an interest there, you don't really know until you get to the 3rd month of dating you when she's asking you to be the boyfriend.

That's why, like I said before, a girl who has initial high interest in you can still have her interest in her lowered if you're asking her out in ways that either (a) look wimpy or (b) don't increase your odds of getting a date. And for me getting that first date, I could care less if I can tell if her interest is 60% or 70% - what I care about is doing the things that are most likely to get me the DATE, including offering up 2 days. You could very well ask a girl out who has 60% interest in you, and the odds of her saying "yes" would be significantly better than if you ask the girl with 70% interest out and only offer her one day.

But - like I always say - I'm basing all this advice solely on my dating experience. So, your results may vary, but this particular method is based on my dating success rate as well as the success rate most sales people get when they do this same method. If you're doubtful about it working, try it out for yourself and see what results you get!

 

[skinnyguy]

Ah, good question! Question: how many times have you read posts on here that goes like this:

"So, I met this girl, blah blah blah, she was all over me at the bar/party, thought she was REALLY into me... I got the number, called the next day and asked her out (activity) and she said she was busy that day..."

Just because a girl is all over you the first time she meets you doesn't mean you have her in the bag yet. On that first meeting where she's practically grabbing at you and "pulling your pants off," it could be because she likes you, or for a variety of reasons you don't know yet: she could be horny and just wants sex, regardless of who it is; she could be getting over a break up and wants to feel desired; she could be tired of being her boring old predictable self and wants to seem like a wild child for the night... the point is, you don't know. So, while it's okay to ASSUME there's an interest there, you don't really know until you get to the 3rd month of dating you when she's asking you to be the boyfriend.

That's why, like I said before, a girl who has initial high interest in you can still have her interest in her lowered if you're asking her out in ways that either (a) look wimpy or (b) don't increase your odds of getting a date. And for me getting that first date, I could care less if I can tell if her interest is 60% or 70% - what I care about is doing the things that are most likely to get me the DATE, including offering up 2 days. You could very well ask a girl out who has 60% interest in you, and the odds of her saying "yes" would be significantly better than if you ask the girl with 70% interest out and only offer her one day.

But - like I always say - I'm basing all this advice solely on my dating experience. So, your results may vary, but this particular method is based on my dating success rate as well as the success rate most sales people get when they do this same method. If you're doubtful about it working, try it out for yourself and see what results you get!

i see what you're saying, HW. Makes sense.

My strategy lately has to not ask a girl out right a way but to build rapport first. Some guys here want sex very quickly, which is fine, but I'm willing to wait for a high quality girl who is into me for who I am, and not just a quick lay.

So I don't actually ask a girl on a "date" until I know that she is interested in me. And I can tell pretty easily. This girl that I dated back in June, on our first date she ended up in my bed. But we had been talking for two months prior to that.