Hardgainers and post-workout blood sugar

[slack]

I'd be classified as an ectomorph. I'm currently 6' and around 140 lbs and progressing slowly, but eat well and work out regularly.

I found some information that indicates that people with high metabolism should eat carbs with a low glycemic index for the slow-burning characteristic. I read on these forums that it can be good to get more sugar post workout to spike insulin levels and promote muscle growth. I remember reading something from the Ellis site suggesting low-sugar supplements, but I'm not sure if that was meant to be post workout.

So I'm wondering.. is it a good idea for me to be getting more sugar post workout, should I avoid it, or is this something that probably won't make any difference and I should stop wasting my time on it?

Thanks!

 

[manuva]

Originally posted by slack
probably won't make any difference and I should stop wasting my time

 

[manuva]

Hehehe.

Sugar is a simple carb and will spike your energy quickly, but won't do anything for muscle growth. Complex carbs are the more desirable carbs whether you're an ectomorph, an endomorph or an intergalactic pornstarmorph.

For maximum growth, you want whey protein isolate (WPI) straight after your workout, as the shorter branch-chain amino acids (BCAA's) in WPI are broken down faster and start repairing your muscles almost immediately.

Ideally, you should take a whey protein concentrate (WPC) with it, which has longer BCAAs and will provide protein for your muscles at a slower, more consistant pace over a period of hours.

Casein is great for providing protein over even longer periods of time, and is good for pre-bed and that sort of thing.

You can go an buy these all separately, or go and get a good protein suppliment which consists of all of these.

Sugary foods will simply provide a short burst of energy post-workout without actually rebuilding any muscle in the body in and of itself.

The presence of carbs is essential in the body for protein uptake, but complex carbs are far better for a whole variety of reasons.

 

[Warboss Alex]

Agree with manuva - different carbs for different times, but you really shouldn't exclude either of them from your diet just because of your metabolism.

However, simple carbs after a workout don't make you grow as such, but they signal to the body to begin the repair process (with a big insulin release) - furthermore, there are studies to support that whey protein and dextrose (simplest form of sugar) is optimal post-workout, however I often add fruit juice for flavour (since I buy unflavoured whey most of the time).

It is also argued that insulin releases with simple carbs ppwo are also desirable, though possibly not for people who get fat particularly easy or who're competing ..

Basically just don't overthink it, take simple carbs pwo and the rest of the day source them from fruits (classed as a simple carb but fructose is low GI) and veg and you should be fine.

Stick to brown/basmati rice, wholemeal pasta, wholewheat bread, oats, sweet potatoes etc but having the odd white bread sandwich won't kill you.

Like I said, don't overthink it - though I'm thinking at 6' and 140lbs you need a bit of protein..

 

[slack]

Appreciate the responses!

Manuva, that's helpful info.

Alex, yeah, I'm trying to up my protein intake (avg 2500 cal, 170 g prot per day). I've seen your suggestions about that in several other threads.

 

[Warboss Alex]

170g protein is barely 1g per lb mate.. maintenaince levels at best. Need some more in there for quality growth.

It's a start though.

 

[MrFitness880]

For the most part stick with complex carbs, and to be honest I would make that recommendation to anyone...with an exception being for some fruit. The real things to avoid are processed sugary foods and anything with High Fructose Corn syrup. (But dont freak if you eat a snickers lol)

For post workout I would recommend simple sugars with your protein. those simple sugars increase the insulin response in your body which increases your cell's permeability to glucose and amino acids which is important in replenishing glycogen supplies and the start to recovery.

I would boost protien from a minimum of 170 to about 200 or 220 on the high end. Up those cals too, more like 3500 if you want to gain mass...though keep in mind those are est. and not calculated for your actual mass.

 

[Warboss Alex]

Originally posted by MrFitness880
For the most part stick with complex carbs, and to be honest I would make that recommendation to anyone...with an exception being for some fruit. The real things to avoid are processed sugary foods and anything with High Fructose Corn syrup. (But dont freak if you eat a snickers lol)

For post workout I would recommend simple sugars with your protein. those simple sugars increase the insulin response in your body which increases your cell's permeability to glucose and amino acids which is important in replenishing glycogen supplies and the start to recovery.

I would boost protien from a minimum of 170 to about 200 or 220 on the high end. Up those cals too, more like 3500 if you want to gain mass...though keep in mind those are est. and not calculated for your actual mass.

So you're just repeating what me and manuva have already said?

Incidentally, I disagree about calories needed to grow. How the hell do you know his body inside-out and that he won't get obese on 3500 calories - or on the end of the spectrum, whether he'd be chronically malnourished?

 

[slack]

A little more info for those interested... In the last few days I've been going for 3000 cal, 210 g prot (that's weight * 1.5 prot as suggested in the sticky, and Alex, I've seen you suggest 1.5-2x, and I'll probably try that). I think the most I've done is 3500/220. The limiting factor for me right now is time and appetite. Lately, I've made small muscle gains, but I've remained around the same weight, which obviously means I need to eat more. Fat has not been a noticable factor at all.

For quick shakes between meals, I've been using 1/2 serving of Heavyweight 900, which comes to around 500 cal, 30 prot, 70 carb, 13 fat. It may be intended more for athletes who need energy or may be more suitable prior to workout. PWO, I mix my own protein/fruit smoothies. I'll probably try making my own higher-protein mix to replace the shakes.

And from what I've gathered from the responses here, I should go with complex carbs for the first half of the day, work out, and go with simple carbs for the second half of the day.

 

[Warboss Alex]

And from what I've gathered from the responses here, I should go with complex carbs for the first half of the day, work out, and go with simple carbs for the second half of the day.

Um, no, I think you misunderstood mate. Quality complex carbs throughout the day; simple carbs post-workout definitely, and limited during the rest of the day..

And if your weight's stayed the same yet you've made muscle gains it means you've lost some fat - well done!

If you're pressed for time then liquid meals are your friend; if appetite then morning cardio should get your metabolism kick-started, otherwise just forcefeed yourself, no two ways about it ..

Please don't count calories.