SeymourCake
Banned
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Share some strategies that helped in the past.
Gonna start investing in stock. Any tips for a newbie?
- Thread starter SeymourCake
- Start date
Tictac
Banned
Unless you are the new Warren Buffett or can pay him to manage your money, 'serious' (don't want to lose) money should go into the Vanguard S&P 500 Index Fund or their dividend stocks fund. Stocks go up and down. So do index funds. But index funds are very low cost, low transaction cost and tax efficient. You don't even need (and should NOT use) a stockbroker to invest with Vanguard.
If it's money you can afford to lose, have fun. Just don't call that 'investing'.
If it's money you can afford to lose, have fun. Just don't call that 'investing'.
wifehunter
Master Don Juan
buy low sell high... I know, everyone knows that, right! Seriously, I'm thinking of doing this as another business. I'm broke for now, but I can spare some change to lose in the market. I'm looking to start trading anything under a dollar. This app called acorns takes your change from online transactions and invests it for you. I'm looking for something a little more brilliant than that! Any help would be appreciated!!!
SeymourCake
Banned
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I would recommend ThinkOrSwim. Look into it. They provide data that other programs don't and it allows you to make better decisions.
Bible_Belt
Master Don Juan
Share some strategies that helped in the past.
Give me trading authorization over your money, and leave me alone.
Give me trading authorization over your money, and leave me alone.
logicallefty
Moderator
I've been dabbling with some penny stocks lately, something I hadn't ever tried till recently. I'm interested in both extremes; long term conservative investing with higher amounts of cash with retirement in mind. and short term risk taking such as penny stocks with low amounts of cash . My penny stocks made 15 bux today whoot
Bible_Belt
Master Don Juan
STOP. Stop now. Cash out the account, and only put your money into exchange-listed securities, or at least other financial instruments that are subject to some sort of rules, because penny stocks have no rules. You think you made 20 bucks today, but just try to sell. Everyone backs away from their quotes. When you try to get your money back, you never get what is quoted. It's all a lie.
Penny Stocks are about fleecing suckers. I'm not saying it's impossible to make money, but the few people who really understand how it works and can make a few million bucks inevitably get busted by the SEC, because the SEC gets to take those few million bucks back from you. The 5-year stay at Club Fed is just a formality. The only way to make money in pennies is to pump and dump, which is buying some low-volume crap stock and then telling everyone on the Internet that they just cured cancer and invented a cure for vaginal looseness all at the same time. Every douche bag wannabe is out there on yahoo and raging bull telling everyone to buy some crap stock he owns. That's illegal, but everyone is doing it. The Feds don't care until you make big money, then they take away the money.
If you want to pick stocks, talk to me, and we'll pick stocks. But get out of this penny garbage. Real traders don't touch that sh!t. It's con artists and sheep, and I know you're not a con artist.
Von
Master Don Juan
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Pick high volume capital gain stocks or high dividend.... than never look at them.
Stocks are expensive compared to Mutual Funds or even Index fund....
Mutual Funds have risk management but you have to pick good ones. They are better in crashing market and sometimes beat the index in growth....
Index fund is the lazy way they are best used in growth market but they will crash faster than anything
Stocks is betting against the market/index and are useally for more ''wealthy people'' cause 1 stock could be from 10$ to 5000$.... while Index/Mutual funds.... for 50$ you could get like 2-3 parts/stock
Stocks are expensive compared to Mutual Funds or even Index fund....
Mutual Funds have risk management but you have to pick good ones. They are better in crashing market and sometimes beat the index in growth....
Index fund is the lazy way they are best used in growth market but they will crash faster than anything
Stocks is betting against the market/index and are useally for more ''wealthy people'' cause 1 stock could be from 10$ to 5000$.... while Index/Mutual funds.... for 50$ you could get like 2-3 parts/stock
logicallefty
Moderator
@Bible_Belt thank you. Right now I've only got 200 bux in the pennies and I'm getting my feet wet. Just play money at this point. As soon as I am ready to get more serious I would indeed like to hear your strategies .
Bible_Belt
Master Don Juan
Notice the German Shepherd is smart enough to stay on land.
Tictac
Banned
Nobody puts anything but play money into penny stocks.
Bible_Belt
Master Don Juan
Hell, I was a broker for exchange-listed stocks, and we turned down people all the time. If you can't demonstrate that you can lose all your money in that account and it not affect your lifestyle, then you don't meet NASD suitability requirements to have a trading account.
there are many strategies, but the one I favor is REALLY learn stocks and options and if at all possible, only play with OPM. The smart guys are never risking much, if ANY of their own money. They do it with YOUR money, sucker.
Bible_Belt
Master Don Juan
I always traded OPM, other than one tiny $2k account I had of my own at one point. After law school, I thought I was going to trade with my own money again, and I lasted about a week. I hated it. My own money is just numbers on a screen that I don't really care about. But when I did it as a job, I had someone else's million bucks to plink around with. I treated that as my dream job, which it was, and I just refused to have an account that was not in the green. At a job where 90% wash out, I outlasted two different companies. They never fired me; they just went out of business. I was boring as hell as a day trader. Other guys would be down ten grand one minute and up ten grand the next. My typical day was just to book a couple hundred books, make a green number for the day, and enjoy not getting fired.
Here are my suggestions as a amateur investor.
(1) Put a good portion of money into passive low cost S&P 500 index funds. they will track the market, and will overall probably perform better than individual stock picks.
(2) Invest with money you can do without on the near term. Some investments will likely fall, and they could be in a cheaper price range for a prolonged period of time. While I wouldn't consider it "gambling" per say ( like play money), make sure you can take care of yourself first. If you invest too much, and suddenly need money on the fly, you don't want to be selling any positions ( especially ones that are down) at lower prices.
(3) Read up on business. Understand how business work, how they report finances, how to read a financial statement, and *most importantly* how the company plans to make money. This is where you should find some good books and start digging into the world of investing. I like One up on Wall street by peter lynch, margin of Safety by S. Klarman, Intelligent Investor by B Graham, and any book about GAAP/financial statements you can find.
To put point #3 into perspective, I have read those books and dozens more and plan on continuing this path. For example this summer I plan on reading all the textbooks required for the CFA level 1 examination ( 6 books total, 300 + hours needed). Next, I read annual reports and try and uncover irregularities if they exist in how a company reports its earnings. The basic goal is not only to understand HOW they make their money, but ARE they making money. Of course my other criterion for investing include, but are not limited to, a overview of management, the customers, the product/service, the industry, and the finances.
Overall, investing I am finding is very challenging. Someone at the other end of the sale has done their homework and is essentially stacking their knowledge up against yours. Who is to say yours is correct and theirs is not? Also, markets and conditions can move quickly agianst you, and stay in prolonged periods of pain for a long time keeping unrealized losses lingering in ones portfolio. Part of me asks if I have any business investing at this point...and I've done it for a little while!
(4) Put in the time. If investing was easy, everyone would be a millionaire. its not. There are so many participants, and so many moving parts that its a fools errand to assume you can beat the market. For example, look at famous Hedge Fund Guru Bill Akman who had a HUGE stake in Valeant Pharmaceuticals. Valeant was priced at 260 dollars per share in mid 2015, and after some questions about its accounting came to light, the stock price nearly halved. Akman doubled down more or less. Valeant than proceeded to lower guidence and the stock got hammered again ending at 30 dollars per share.
There are a lot of smart people out there in this game that have dedicated their lives to making money. Be humble. Realize that you will not outsmart the market...
(1) Put a good portion of money into passive low cost S&P 500 index funds. they will track the market, and will overall probably perform better than individual stock picks.
(2) Invest with money you can do without on the near term. Some investments will likely fall, and they could be in a cheaper price range for a prolonged period of time. While I wouldn't consider it "gambling" per say ( like play money), make sure you can take care of yourself first. If you invest too much, and suddenly need money on the fly, you don't want to be selling any positions ( especially ones that are down) at lower prices.
(3) Read up on business. Understand how business work, how they report finances, how to read a financial statement, and *most importantly* how the company plans to make money. This is where you should find some good books and start digging into the world of investing. I like One up on Wall street by peter lynch, margin of Safety by S. Klarman, Intelligent Investor by B Graham, and any book about GAAP/financial statements you can find.
To put point #3 into perspective, I have read those books and dozens more and plan on continuing this path. For example this summer I plan on reading all the textbooks required for the CFA level 1 examination ( 6 books total, 300 + hours needed). Next, I read annual reports and try and uncover irregularities if they exist in how a company reports its earnings. The basic goal is not only to understand HOW they make their money, but ARE they making money. Of course my other criterion for investing include, but are not limited to, a overview of management, the customers, the product/service, the industry, and the finances.
Overall, investing I am finding is very challenging. Someone at the other end of the sale has done their homework and is essentially stacking their knowledge up against yours. Who is to say yours is correct and theirs is not? Also, markets and conditions can move quickly agianst you, and stay in prolonged periods of pain for a long time keeping unrealized losses lingering in ones portfolio. Part of me asks if I have any business investing at this point...and I've done it for a little while!
(4) Put in the time. If investing was easy, everyone would be a millionaire. its not. There are so many participants, and so many moving parts that its a fools errand to assume you can beat the market. For example, look at famous Hedge Fund Guru Bill Akman who had a HUGE stake in Valeant Pharmaceuticals. Valeant was priced at 260 dollars per share in mid 2015, and after some questions about its accounting came to light, the stock price nearly halved. Akman doubled down more or less. Valeant than proceeded to lower guidence and the stock got hammered again ending at 30 dollars per share.
There are a lot of smart people out there in this game that have dedicated their lives to making money. Be humble. Realize that you will not outsmart the market...
I guess I don't subscribe to the same exact negativity that espi has, but a lot of his points aren't incorrect either. How one views the nebulous wall street is their own prerogative, so I won't pass judgement on his viewpoints.
You cannot time the market. You can only rely on past economic assumptions--and/or insider trading.
I would also suspect a fair amount of insider trading occurs and puts the average investor at a disadvantage. And timing the market is impossible. I combat timing the market with dollar cost averaging into positions I own, and into my retirement accounts.
Most investment firms deduct 401(k) accounts with lots of hidden fees. A few years ago, a law was passed that required statements to be issued to investors. In my opinion it's done very little good. Have you read your statements recently? They are a biatch to read and understand--and that is EXACTLY how Wall Street intended it.
Yes, Wall street is aligned with commissions, not shareholder well being. Mutual funds, and even most hedge funds rely on these commissions to fund their lavish lifestyle with returns less than the broad market indices. However, the caveat here for retirement plans is that one does have a choice of funds to invest into...and this includes low cost index funds. This is where my retirement funds are, and they have made me a lot of money. Other co workers have retired millionaires just by contributing towards these index funds.
But yeah, many of the managed funds aren't worth it. If a fund charges 2-3% and underperforms the market, than you end up losing..
When stocks consistently make money, brokers say, "Buy more!" They say the same thing when stocks lose money: "Buy more!" LOL
This is why I generally ignore most participants of wall street and buy on my own accord. However, since this type is pervasive on wall st, one does need to be aware of the bias. The news media will always support buying/selling at a rapid pace. People almost always lose out in this type of trading, and the brokers make commissions either way.
Buffet started his partnership by getting investors early on. He returned their money and many multiples. Now, I realize he is the best and that the chance any of us can emulate him are nearly 0. But, to be successful, one does not need to be as successful as him. There are plenty of other examples of regular people who are able to make money in the market in an honorable fair fashion.
To speak to my personal experience, a lot of my money goes in an index fund via retirement. The other portion is my own equity holdings. The stocks I have sold overall have gotten me more money than I have lost. Some "gambling" plays have lost me money, but those are <1% of my total holdings (in the form of ETFs and ETNs...stay away from those).
If its one's goal to stay away from the markets, odds are you'll be better off. if its something you enjoy doing - the research, managing ones risk, keeping up with a company, it can be a decent way to make some money . I personally enjoy finding the smaller companies no one talks about, digging into the story, and slowly investing some of my free money into the business as if I was going to buy the business. I look for companies with strong balance sheets, a good product, and management with integrity. Now thats is no guarantee for success, but so far its worked out OK for me.
If one invests, do so at your own peril. Understand that what EPSI posted is pretty much true, but at the end of the day you have to look in the mirror and make the choices yourself.
Good luck
You cannot time the market. You can only rely on past economic assumptions--and/or insider trading.
I would also suspect a fair amount of insider trading occurs and puts the average investor at a disadvantage. And timing the market is impossible. I combat timing the market with dollar cost averaging into positions I own, and into my retirement accounts.
Most investment firms deduct 401(k) accounts with lots of hidden fees. A few years ago, a law was passed that required statements to be issued to investors. In my opinion it's done very little good. Have you read your statements recently? They are a biatch to read and understand--and that is EXACTLY how Wall Street intended it.
Yes, Wall street is aligned with commissions, not shareholder well being. Mutual funds, and even most hedge funds rely on these commissions to fund their lavish lifestyle with returns less than the broad market indices. However, the caveat here for retirement plans is that one does have a choice of funds to invest into...and this includes low cost index funds. This is where my retirement funds are, and they have made me a lot of money. Other co workers have retired millionaires just by contributing towards these index funds.
But yeah, many of the managed funds aren't worth it. If a fund charges 2-3% and underperforms the market, than you end up losing..
When stocks consistently make money, brokers say, "Buy more!" They say the same thing when stocks lose money: "Buy more!" LOL
This is why I generally ignore most participants of wall street and buy on my own accord. However, since this type is pervasive on wall st, one does need to be aware of the bias. The news media will always support buying/selling at a rapid pace. People almost always lose out in this type of trading, and the brokers make commissions either way.
Buffet started his partnership by getting investors early on. He returned their money and many multiples. Now, I realize he is the best and that the chance any of us can emulate him are nearly 0. But, to be successful, one does not need to be as successful as him. There are plenty of other examples of regular people who are able to make money in the market in an honorable fair fashion.
To speak to my personal experience, a lot of my money goes in an index fund via retirement. The other portion is my own equity holdings. The stocks I have sold overall have gotten me more money than I have lost. Some "gambling" plays have lost me money, but those are <1% of my total holdings (in the form of ETFs and ETNs...stay away from those).
If its one's goal to stay away from the markets, odds are you'll be better off. if its something you enjoy doing - the research, managing ones risk, keeping up with a company, it can be a decent way to make some money . I personally enjoy finding the smaller companies no one talks about, digging into the story, and slowly investing some of my free money into the business as if I was going to buy the business. I look for companies with strong balance sheets, a good product, and management with integrity. Now thats is no guarantee for success, but so far its worked out OK for me.
If one invests, do so at your own peril. Understand that what EPSI posted is pretty much true, but at the end of the day you have to look in the mirror and make the choices yourself.
Good luck
I just avoid stocks, bonds, etc., since i'm not willing to accept the risk and high levels of study required to even slightly get the odds on "my side". i stick with something I know, something low risk and high return, something which my actions make a difference with. None of that applies to stocks or bonds. They are completely beyond being "knowable" , much less effected by, the common man. there is no way of knowing what stocks or bonds will do at any given moment or even period of time. you can somewhat put the odds in your favor, but you can easily take gigantic losses at any given time, too. Just let another plane hit say, the Congress building or the supreme's building and see what happens to all your "projections" about the market.
