Girl is hesitant about getting into another LTR; what should I do?!? (Long)

[Beckwith]

Hey guys, I'm hurting right now and need some advice. I'm a senior in college and I dated a great girl last spring. I used Don Juan techniques and she really fell for me. I think by the end of the year she was really infatuated/love with me. During this intial two month dating phase I avoided getting trapped in an LTR as I thought that it should take time and I wasn't sure I was ready. I explained this to her and the idea of "casual dating", and although she seemed alittle hurt I think she got over it. She never directly asked if we could be exclusive.

With summer coming up I thought it would be best to say we could date other people during the summer and to keep things light (my intention was to avoid pressuring the relationship and to maintain challenge). We spoke every two weeks over the summer, she visited once, and everything was cool.

I got back this past week and we went out, had a great time, and she asked if I still wanted to date other girls. By this time, I had pretty much fallen for her and felt ready for a relationship and told her I was happy just dating her. She seemed happy, I dropped her off, and we later met up and spent the night together (sex). Fast foward three days later and she comes over to where I'm living and tells me that she would like to go back to casual dating and isn't ready for the "games" of an LTR (phone call returns, etc.) I was really suprised, but played it cool saying I understood and didn't get upset at all. I ended up spending the night at her place that night and we had sex, however the whole experience felt weird to me although she acted the exact same (very affectionate, etc.). The hurt I was feeling while I lay next to her made me question whether or not I could go back to casually dating. Ironically I feel as if she has flipped the tables on me, although I'm sure not intentionally.

Now this whole flake episode came as a real suprise to me as I felt I had the girl really into me and this behaviour seems unusual although genuine. I know for a fact she was in the spring, and just assumed she would still be so in the fall. (Our communication over the summer had been good) and would want an LTR as she had seemed ready to hop into one in the spring.

Now I'm really hurting because although she still wants to casually date, which includes everything (sex, affection, etc.), I feel that she doesn't like me as much as she used to, even though from our interaction last night she acted the same. Afterall, if she really cared for me she'd want an LTR with me games or not. Now I feel like I should have committed in the spring. But that's the past and I need to know what to do now!!

Should I say that I'm too attached to casually date now and that its LTR or nothing? Should I say I need time to think about this and cut off contact for a week or two and let her miss me? Or should I just play it cool, show her a good time whenever she's around me, and slowly win her back? Or should I just give up and cut her off completely and permanently, experiencing some serious pain now in hopes of avoiding months of pain if my feelings dont change?

A few things you should know about this girl. She is really fantastic, works two jobs, tons of friends, and is smart. She got out of a three year relationship last christmas, a year and half of which had been long distance. This guy was apparently very jealous and controlling and since it was long distance, he was always calling her. She started dating me about four months after breaking up with him. I don't feel like I was the rebound guy and her affection has always been constant. This makes me believe her hesitancy to want to avoid the games her jealous boyfriend used to put her through. Also, I am a senior and she is junior, which means that if we did get serious and last there would be potential for a long distance relationship in the spring, which I think we both don't want. Yet it seems stupid to avoid a good relationship now for something that is not going to happen for another nine months.

PLease give me your thoughts and comments as I am hurting right now!

 

[Bungo Pony]

Sounds like you've established yourself a fvck buddy relationship, unfortunately, you've let your emotions take control, and now desperation has settled in. NEVER get emotionally involved with a girl you're not in a LTR with.

Your best bet is to cut her out of your life completely and start all over again. If you keep on persuing her, your feelings for her are going to keep on growing, and the pain will continue until she smells the desperation and starts avoiding you. The pain will go on even longer.

Move on before you waste any more of your time and thinking.

 

[Slickster]

I'm not so sure Bungo. I definately agree with you about the desperation part. Lose that or you will lose her.

This girl was in love with him once and could probably be turned.
Sex is a powerful thing and if the two of you are still having sex you've got a pretty good hook in her. Be very cool about the casual dating thing. Make sure you start dating someone before she does and make sure she finds out about it. Game playing, yes but she'll most likely be hurt and come running back to you.

If not you've solved your problem. She's not into you for anything more than casual sex. You should follow everything Bungo said and forget her cuz she's just going to cause you a great deal of pain.

 

[Bungo Pony]

Slickster, I agree that this could be turned around. If he wasn't infatuated with her, I'd fully suggest it. The thing is, his emotions are controlling him which will cause him to do desperate things. He basically has 2 choices:

1) Ditch her, get over her fairly quickly, and start fresh learning from this experience
2) Work on turning her around, and possibly come crashing down harder, taking even longer to get over the pain.

If he wants to turn this around, he's going to have to throw her off a bit. REJECT SEX and tell her about some of the girls he's dating. This will bring her IL back up. He should put her in the "friend zone", or better yet, take her out to a bar/club and use her as social proof. Like I've always said, it's a win/win situation when you use social proof.

 

[Beckwith]

Thanks guys

Bungo and Slickster, thanks for your good advice. Bungo, I defintely feel that you are right not to get involved emotionally until in a LTR. However, it seems to me that the very level of emotional involvment I have is what warrants a move to the next level, i.e. LTR. That's a whole different topic though.

Right now you are right, I am feeling desperate. I want her back and realize that my options are pretty limited. Fortunately, I have not shown any of this desperation to her; I've always been good about not coming off as needy or desperate. The last few days before this incident when she said she didn't want a exculsive relationship I talked to her once a day on IM for five minutes or on the phone briefly. No long phone conversations or anything. Consequently, I feel that she doesn't view me as desperate right now.

Unfortunately, the fact is that I feel desperate. I think I might have a chance at winning her back, but I just don't know if I have the energy of keeping up the whole charade of "I'm not over-involved, look I'm dating lots of other women". Just looking at other women right now is pretty difficult, and to immediately go dating seems almost impossible. I just don't know if its worth hiding the pain to try to get her back. I could reject sex, but dating other women for real (although I could hint at doing it) is not possible right this instance. Is that and continuing to be fun and not-needy around her enough to win her over?

The ideal situation for me would be to somehow detach myself emotionally abit (is that possible?) and continue the relationship as is with the hope that things will change. I mean, I get everything I could want except for the base that a LTR provides. However, I think that it is hard to jolt a relationship without forcing change myself, such as the sort Bungo Pony talks about. And this I don't know if I can do. Is there no hope that just limiting my time with her and not being needy will eventually turn her around, or do I have to force myself do this other stuff?

As for breaking up, I'm leaning towards that although it scares the hell out of me. I'm already hurting pretty bad right now and I know that won't help, but unless I believe there is a real chance for change, I don't see the point in holding on. The sad thing is, for the three days we were dating exclusively I felt alittle uncomfortable because I recognized the neediness in myself (checking to see if she was online, wondering if she called) and that made me kind of fear what a LTR can do to you. Yet I really have successfully avoided appearing needy to her, which is why I think she really believes that the casual dating can work.

Finally, I think the characterization of **** buddy is pretty accurate, as that is what I feel we are heading towards, and it would be a damn shame to see something as beautiful as this relationship has been degenerate into something like that. Best to be like Seinfield and end it early. I think that's why I feel I could be comfortable cutting off sex if I did try to win her back. You know, say its too emotionally trying right now and that we should just date without the physicality. I could see that blowing up in my face though because the sex maybe a big part of the attraction she has to me. If I want her to be happy whenever she's around me than sex maybe inevitable.

Thanks again guys for your help and please give me any other feedback/suggestions/insights you may have!!! This is painful and writing about it makes me feel much better and helps me get through it. Thankyou for the support!

 

[WaterTiger]

Beckwith~
Please don't think I'm yelling at you or that I'm slamming you. I'm just trying to give you a peek at the labyrinth of smoke & mirrors that is the female mind.
99.9% of the information on this site is right on the money. HOWEVER, some times....the girl doesn't respond the way she is supposed to. This is one of those rare instances. The only way to learn the difference is to, unfortunatly, experience it. I totally sympathize with you. I was in the very same situation just a year ago. I lost a great guy because I wanted to "keep it light".

I explained this to her and the idea of "casual dating", and although she seemed alittle hurt I think she got over it. She never directly asked if we could be exclusive.

She DID NOT GET OVER IT! You told her you would not go exclusive so she didn't ask because she thought you'd say NO and make HER look desperate.

With summer coming up I thought it would be best to say we could date other people during the summer and to keep things light (my intention was to avoid pressuring the relationship and to maintain challenge).

This is where you lost her...She was looking for a commitment or at least a "You can't fvck anyone rule". There was no challenge for her at all...in her mind, if you were both able to date other people, there was no relationship. She went from a strongly controlled relationship to one that has no rules at all. She read this as "NO INTEREST" from you. She was used to being controlled. She may not have liked it, but at least she knew where she stood in the relationship. You didn't give her any security. She had no idea where she stood with you, and she had ALLLLLLL summer to think about it.

I got back this past week and we went out, had a great time, and she asked if I still wanted to date other girls. By this time, I had pretty much fallen for her and felt ready for a relationship and told her I was happy just dating her. She seemed happy, I dropped her off, and we later met up and spent the night together (sex).

In her mind: You miserable SOB! You left me hanging all freaking summer and NOW you want a relationship???Oh GEE! I feel so honored you came down from your lofty mountain to spend a few of your precious moments with me.

Fast foward three days later and she comes over to where I'm living and tells me that she would like to go back to casual dating and isn't ready for the "games" of an LTR (phone call returns, etc.) I was really suprised, but played it cool saying I understood and didn't get upset at all.

Games? OH GOD! This girl is SO pissed at you! She has figured out that you're playing games! Nothing, and I mean NOTHING pisses off a woman faster than to realize you've been gaming her. She's out for revenge now, blood is going to fly.

I ended up spending the night at her place that night and we had sex, however the whole experience felt weird to me although she acted the exact same (very affectionate, etc.). The hurt I was feeling while I lay next to her made me question whether or not I could go back to casually dating. Ironically I feel as if she has flipped the tables on me, although I'm sure not intentionally.

Oh my sweet and darling boy, It was most certianly intentional! I'm surprised she even let you sleep with her. Please tell me you used a condom!

Now this whole flake episode came as a real suprise to me as I felt I had the girl really into me and this behaviour seems unusual although genuine.

She WAS into you in the spring...when you told her you didn't want an LRT, and then you gave her all summer to think about that. DJ techniques don't work long distance, and they don't work for a LONG time.

I know for a fact she was in the spring, and just assumed she would still be so in the fall. (Our communication over the summer had been good) and would want an LTR as she had seemed ready to hop into one in the spring.

Women never stop thinking about relationships, never. We constantly question everything. What does he think? Were are we going? What will happen if we stay together? Why doesn't he like me? After thinking about this all summer she starts to wonder who you're dating, and if she's just being kept around for a fall back girlfriend. You assumed WRONG. You gave her too much time to think.

Now I'm really hurting because although she still wants to casually date, which includes everything (sex, affection, etc.), I feel that she doesn't like me as much as she used to, even though from our interaction last night she acted the same.

Oh...you mean she's treating YOU like you treated HER? Just keeping it casual?

Afterall, if she really cared for me she'd want an LTR with me games or not.

DID YOU JUST SAY THAT??? She'd want a LTR with you, games or not??? WHAT??? If a girl said that you guys would rip her head off! No girl wants an LTR with a guy she caught gaming her!

Now I feel like I should have committed in the spring. But that's the past and I need to know what to do now!!

Yes, she was looking for the commitment in the spring. I think you need to totally get out of the relationship with her. She is angry and harboring some resentments toward you. Women never forget these things, 20 years from now she will remember this vividly and will be able to tell you dates and times at the snap of a finger. If you try to start anything with her she will rip out your heart & piss on it. Anything you do will be seen as a game. She will tear you to pieces.

You are a sadder, but much wiser man. The cold, brutal moral of this story is this: We want the relationship WHEN we want it. Not when you want it. It's not fair...but it's true.

 

[echo1212]

Very well said water tiger-oh wise one. Becker, listen to everything that she just said, because the Gods honest truth is men just don't think like women, as my gf always makes me see. Therefore we don't always see things from their persepctive. Now, of coarse alot of times thats a good thing, but when it comes to giving advice on what a girl is thinking and why she does things a certain way, in this case water tiger is right on target. The girl is either conciously or unconciously mad at you. Your best bet is to end things now in a friendly matter-just say you value your friendship too much to let things continue this way, and mayyyyyyybe sometime down the road she'll come back saying that she wants a ltr, then its up to you.

 

[WaterTiger]

Thanks Echo!
See! Sometimes a girl on the site ain't such a bad thing!