First Post - I Could Use Some Advice

[DJHopeful]

First off, I've been visiting the forum for a while but I just registered and this is my first post. Even though I'm in my twenties, I'm still pretty clueless about dating/relationships and I could seriously use some advice.

There is a girl at work who I've liked for some time. I've talked to her a number of times over the past number of months, and we get along really well. She's about a year younger than me, and is seriously everything you could ever want in a girl. Last week I finally got the guts to ask her out. It was early in the week and I asked her out for that Friday (yeah, I know asking a girl for a first date on a Friday is usually not a good idea, but I had reasons to believe it might work in this case). She said she was supposed to be getting together with a friend but would let me know. A couple days later I ran into her and mentioned it, and she said that she had made plans with her friends and explained since they're in college she is trying to hang out with them a lot now since she couldn't during the semester. I suggested maybe next week, and she commented that she was busy preparing for a trip the following week (she is going on a business trip). I figured she thought I meant the weekend, so I suggested sometime during the week. She seemed to be pondering it, so I mentioned a specific day. She said she would get back to me. At this point I was kind of reading between the lines so I said , "If you want to" (meaning if she really wants to go out). She said "Yeah, yeah (not in a sarcastic way but like she really was interested)."

Anyway, I'm not really encouraged about the odds of her getting back to me, plus I realize that as a coworker I need to be very careful how I go about this. She's a very sweet girl and my gut reaction is that she has reservations (or is not interested at all) but doesn't want to hurt my feelings. I know this is a clear AFC tendency, but I can't give up without being 110% certain that there's no chance for a relationship there. I know the odds aren't good, but does anyone have any ideas how I can salvage that last little chance with her. I was thinking about talking to her and saying something like,"I didn't mean to make you uncomfortable or put you on the spot the other day, but I think you're a sweet girl and I think we could have a great time if we went out. Think about it and let me know either way - I hope you say yes, but if you're not interested just say so - you won't be hurting my feelings."

Anyway, I'm sorry about the length of this post. If anyone has any advice, I'd seriously appreciate it. Thanks for reading.

 

[Walden]

I don't mean to bring you down here. But she's isn't interested man.
That could mean any one of three things.
(1) She's gay/married/moving to Aruba/really a man,
(2) She was only being friendly and is absolutely not interested in you, or
(3) she could be interested in you at some later stage but you are doing soemthing wrong at the moment.

If I were you I would do three things.
(1) Stop asking her out.
(2) Go and FTOB (find three other women).
(3) go and read the bible , on how to be attractive to women.

and then maybe in six weeks time ask her out again,

Hey,
Good luck.

 

[Dust 2 Dust]

Have you gotten her number yet? I would have asked for her number before asking for a date.

 

[OddTech]

Since he asked in person (face-to-face), that is probably better. Bravo for being upfront and risking rejection.

Right now, I don't think there is anything he can do. All you can do now is wait (ignore her and become a challenge) and date other girls. If she is truly interested, she will eventually approach and ask why you're not speaking to her anymore, etc etc.

You have already given her too many opportunities, now it's time to swallow your pride and MOVE ON, emotionally speaking.

REMEMBER: If a girl has interest in you, she'll make it EASY for you to ask her out and date her. Welcome aboard bud.

 

[TesuqueRed]

She's not interested. She said as much 3+ different ways.

Don't go apologize.

I'm giving no explanations on the above. Go read the bible and figure out why.

 

[DJHopeful]

Thanks for your responses guys - I appreciate it. There were a few things I left out of my initial post that I probably should have mentioned. First off, this girl is extremely shy. She's very nice to everyone, but I don't think I've ever seen her just go to someone's (anyone's) desk just to socialize like most people do. She also is from a foreign country (although she has been in the U.S. for several years and speaks English perfectly), so she has a strong accent and has admitted intimidation when speaking in different settings. I'm pretty sure she doesn't have a boyfriend, and I get the impression that she probably doesn't date a lot. My reasoning for thinking that she could possibly be interested is based on several things. For one, at a recent company social event she went out of her way to sit next to me several times when there were other places she could have sat. Also, during one of our conversations we were talking about what we usually do on weekends, and it sounded like she has a pretty tame social life (meeting up with friends, renting or going to see movies, or just hanging out at home). I figured that in general most girls wouldn't admit this to a guy unless they at least had a passing interest.

This is why I'm having trouble completely giving up on the situation, even though by my own admission it doesn't look good. This is also why I suggested the approach I did. TesuqueRed pointed out that I should not apologize for my actions. I have read a good bit of the DJ Bible, and understand that in at least 99% of cases that's correct. But due to the special circumstances in this case, I thought that it might be worthwhile. If it gets her to say yes, great. If it gets her to say no (which is the most likely scenario), that's great too, because at least then I'd be 100% sure where I stand.

Any thoughts?

 

[krd]

I thik she is just one of those girls who doesn't care very much about guys and having a love life. I have reason to believe there are a lot of girls like that. Many girs, even the average looking ones, could be at least sub-conciously aware that they can easily get a guy anytime they want, so they don't desire it as much. They are happy enough to be concentrating on work, friends and their own hobbies. (In fact, it's been said that this is the mindset DJ's should have as well, although for us it's a bit harder because most of us never really have a bunch of girls pining for our attention).

If this girl is as shy as you say, the reason why this girl sat next to you at the company meeting was probably because she knew you, and felt uncomfortable about sitting next to somebody else she didn't know. Also, being shy, she may avoid going on dates because she feels that they are awkward and uncomfortable.

You should probably continue to talk to her, but don't bring up the topic of going out for a while. Try and meet new women (although, believe me, I know this isn't easy to do, especially if your lifestyle doesn't readily allow for it. But maybe you would have a few more options than I would--do a search for threads on this topic).

But the more times you bring the subject up to her, the more annoyed she may get, to the point where you won't have even an inkling of a chance. So just be cool and let it go for now.

 

[Bungo Pony]

She fed you a 5hitload of excuses to not go out with you. If she was truly interested she would have said, "Well, I'm busy on Friday, but I'm free Sunday night". This is called a counter-offer. When women do this, it shows interest and most likely her plans are genuine.

Give up on this one, she's not worth persuing.

 

[DJHopeful]

Originally posted by krd
I thik she is just one of those girls who doesn't care very much about guys and having a love life. I have reason to believe there are a lot of girls like that. Many girs, even the average looking ones, could be at least sub-conciously aware that they can easily get a guy anytime they want, so they don't desire it as much. They are happy enough to be concentrating on work, friends and their own hobbies..

I think you're probably on to something there. I never would have believed there were girls like that, but it just seems almost bizarre that she doesn't seem to have an active dating life (I certainly can't be the first guy who ever asked her out). Oh well, I guess I'll move on. I'm bummed about it, but I guess AFC habits die hard.

Thanks guys.

 

[Donny Brasco]

If you were to ask her out again, don't give her the option of saying "NO"!

In a month or two tell her she still owes you a date and you have tickets for some show or comedy club or whatever and she can either meet you there or you'll drive to her place and pick her up.

"Sally!! Hey you still owe me that supper and I got tickets to (Whatever) for tonight. Would you like to meet me there or should I pick you up?"

Be very confident and do not give her the chance to turn you down. Good luck.

 

[ryan killa]

DJ Hopeful:

This post interested me, as I was in your situation(almost the exact same way).

This girl I met at work and I instantly became friends(we got got jobs where we work at the same time). This was before I arrived at this site, but about two months later, I found this site, and soon asked her out. In so many words, basically, she said no.

Before this, I basically knew that she had a very tame social life, and did not get out much(she just arrived from Europe a while ago). I thought it was a hint or something, "as me out," but apparently not.

I still am attracted to her, as she has many great qualitites, but don't talk to her often, I make her to the work to talk to me, if she wants, since she declined me.

All I'm saying, is it's her problem if she doesn't want you. She declined going out with me, and still talks to me like nothing happened? Just forget about her, or talk to her for a few minutes and then flee first. For her actions, she does not deserve the right to speak with you, but maybe she can earn this right back

 

[krd]

Originally posted by Donny Brasco
If you were to ask her out again, don't give her the option of saying "NO"!

In a month or two tell her she still owes you a date and you have tickets for some show or comedy club or whatever and she can either meet you there or you'll drive to her place and pick her up.

"Sally!! Hey you still owe me that supper and I got tickets to (Whatever) for tonight. Would you like to meet me there or should I pick you up?"

Be very confident and do not give her the chance to turn you down. Good luck.

Yeah, but the problem with that method is that it makes it sound like a duty. You want her to want to go out with you, not feel obligated because she "owes you one".

 

[The Main Event]

Hi DJHopeful

You've got a lot to say, and I have a lot to say as well, so let's work through this problem of yours together.

Originally posted by DJHopeful
She's about a year younger than me, and is seriously everything you could ever want in a girl.

In the early days, I met one or two chicks who did that to me... made me think they had it all.

Forget putting a girl on a pedestal... I'd have her on top of Mount Everest. In my eyes, she was not only everything a guy could desire physically (even when other men would be commenting on other girls ahead of her, go figure), but her intellect was second to none, she simply oozed charisma... and she was seemingly destined to have success and fame.

So, yeah, I know the sort of girl you're talking about... and I'll say this. When you adopt the sort of mindset I used to--the sort of mindset you're adopting right now--it does terrible things to your game.

Number one: You don't see her very obvious flaws, because they've been subsumed into the perfect image you've created for her. "Oh, Jennifer doesn't talk to anyone who can't do something for her? Well, that's okay... She must have so many guys fawning over her--and she's so committed to her work!--that it must be a terrible nuisance. She's just trying to get on with her job. She's not a b'itch or anything like that!"

So be sure to keep an open eye for character flaws. This girl you're telling us about is far from perfect. Even I can see that, and I only have access to what you've told me. Her social skills are something less than perfect, to say the least. Your own post tells me as much. She's an indecisive flake. Your own story says as much.

Number two--and this is the big one: "Because Jennifer is so perfect, I have to pursue her--no matter what! I know it's gotten to the stage where she runs away every time I approach her, and that she's told her friends that she wishes I'd leave her alone, but I have to keep trying. There's nobody else like her out there! She's the best!!" And I'm sure she is a total peach. I'm sure she's mouthwateringly gorgeous, and I'm sure she's got something upstairs to back it up.

But guess what? She's not alone in that respect. In fact, she's not even close to being alone. Many guys will meet an attractive, intelligent woman... and decide that she must be the *only* girl on the face of God's green Earth who manages to combine beauty AND brains.

Turns out, though, that women are an unlimited resource and that hot, smart women are legion. If it's something other than looks that completes the package for you, your best bet is to start looking somewhere where this other trait abounds. If it's intelligence you want, join some clubs filled with intelligent folks. Lots of them will be women, and some of them are bound to look good.

Last week I finally got the guts to ask her out.

Congratulations.

And I mean that sincerely.

She said she was supposed o be getting together with a friend but would let me know. A couple days later I ran into her and mentioned it, and she said that she had made plans with her friends and explained since they're in college she is trying to hang out with them a lot now since she couldn't during the semester. I suggested maybe next week, and she commented that she was busy preparing for a trip the following week (she is going on a business trip). I figured she thought I meant the weekend, so I suggested sometime during the week. She seemed to be pondering it, so I mentioned a specific day. She said she would get back to me.

That's four strikes to her name, my man. All following each other in quick succession. Usually I write girls off after two strikes--and sometimes one, depending on my reading of the cards. Perseverance is one thing... but you're not exactly following the path of least resistence here.

All that other stuff you refer to later, about her sitting next to you and whatnot... if you're being honest with yourself, you'll see that you're just rationalising.

That's all stuff which, if you told me it before you approached her for a date, would make me say "go for it; I think she wants you!"

What it does not do, and what you should not pretend it does, is supersede a flat rejection. And let's be honest here, a flat rejection is what she's handed you. One of those turn-downs might be ambiguous enough for you to follow up, but four of them amount to a TKO.

does anyone have any ideas how I can salvage that last little chance with her. I was thinking about talking to her and saying something like,"I didn't mean to make you uncomfortable or put you on the spot the other day, but I think you're a sweet girl and I think we could have a great time if we went out. Think about it and let me know either way - I hope you say yes, but if you're not interested just say so - you won't be hurting my feelings."

As weird as this might sound, it's been my experience that being open about your feelings is the last thing you want to do--even after you've been knocked back. I've had the most success in attracting girls when they've had the mindset of "does he or doesn't he want me?" Putting things bluntly, or even as semi-bluntly as you're planning to, kills that mindset cold.

If you're intent on salvaging some imagined or real last chance with a girl, here's what I'd do. In fact, it's the same thing I'd do if I was writing her off.

I'd leave her be. I'd go looking elsewhere, and I'd leave her to her own devices. If she decides that she's keen, she knows where to find you.

Sometimes what a girl (a girl, that is, with low self esteem) will do is respond cautiously to an initial come-on, because she's into the guy but don't know what her friends will think. Then she talks about you with her friends and they think you're a good thing. Sort of makes you say, "what are we in here... junior high?", but it's life. So then the girl wants you, but she also knows that you've most likely written her off as disinterested. She knows that the onus is now on her to make her interest in you *explicitly* clear--and she will, shy or not shy.

But we haven't seen that in your case. In fact, we're seeing the opposite. You don't seem to have triggered any attraction in her so far, and there's no reason to suppose that you suddenly will.

That's my blunt assessment. I'd love to be wrong, I hope I'm wrong, but I doubt I'm wrong.

As far as second chances go, consensus is that they don't exist. After thinking about it somewhat, I'm not too sure about that... From a theoretical standpoint, there's no reason why someone who's taken real steps to improve himself won't be more attractive to a girl he used to know if he bumps into her again five years later. I know a lot of very respected DJs will disagree with me... and I also know that a second chance with a girl who didn't dig you before isn't something you do yourself any favours by pursuing.

But that's not something you need to contemplate in your case. There are two reasons why there's no such thing as a second chance here. First, she sees you all the time, so there's no opportunity to make a dramatic "second impression". Secondly, she's already formally turned you down. That has the effect of setting her opinion of you in stone. For her to turn around later on and admit that she desires you will be to acknowledge that she's going after someone about whom she's already said, "not good enough".

That won't do her ego any good, and therefore you can be damn sure it's not an avenue she's going to explore.


I am
The Main Event.

 

[Framboise]

you probably got stuck in her friendzone along the way. you shoulda came up wiht the date idea earlier when u first met her. all situations are salvageable, just pretend shes the one trying to get you and act like it.