Find someone who makes you see it from the other side...

[TesuqueRed]

Not sure if this is a tip, so I expect it will get bounced elsewhere, or just bounced...

I've been job bouncing of late, and recently landed at a firm with a female boss who is over 30 but a few years younger than me.

She takes dancing lessons and has a figure to show for it. I used to think Yoga was the best recommendation for a woman (after having great genes, of course...) but I think dancing is equal or slightly better for her figure than Yoga. Of course, a combo of good genes, dancing and Yoga leaves me drooling...

Her problem? Let's begin.

Her genes are good but not great. She has a figure, but she's about to become frumpy in her looks. It isn't her clothes, it just that she's at that age and she can't help it. It's that change to middle-age and we all go thru some version of it. Still, she will have that rack and those legs for awhile longer....whew!

Anyway, she starts asking the usual digging-for-information-questions that women use when they're interested, and I noticed it as I have since having come here and learned something.

I take a pass. Most women will pick up on the fact that you're not interested and shrug it off, thinking "your loss, buddy" and move on. Of course, you'll never have another chance with them if you're late on the swing (my common experience.) A select few will take it as rejection and will be forever nasty afterwards. She may be one of those, but it's too early to tell.

Why did I let her pass?

Red flag #1: I feel prohibited from using my humor around her. I use it quite often and have been daring with it just to see where I can go with it and to test others. Mostly I get positive results. Occasionally I get bad results, but I can handle that. This time? No way. This has been the first time I've felt compelled to keep it under serious wraps. I can't imagine joking with her or even a normal conversation.

Red flag #2: communication. I've done far more complex shyt than what I do for this firm, and she jumps on me for taking initiative. Then she jumps on me for not asking basic questions. So I ask basic questions and get a response that says what I asked was stupid and obviousl, and so the vicious cycle begins again. Result? I avoid contact with her as a rule, which she must take as rejection.

What I noticed---here's the point of the post---she displayed many of the body language signs and communication styles that I used to use, and now I see it from the other side and feel it's effect.

Red flag #3: lack of eye contact. She isn't dishonest, but I can't trust her.

Red flag #4: she mumbles. Again, she isn't dishonest, but I can't trust her because of this.

Red flag #5: she jokes and is sociable around those she is comfortable with (long-term co-workers) and those that could make her life difficult if she didn't get along with---but doesn't extend herself to anyone who doesn't count in her world. She supplicates when she has to, clams up otherwise.

What do I see? I see parts of myself and others like me in her when I wanted someone and became all disjointed and weird around them. Now I'm on the other side and I can see what it does first hand.

Lesson? I've learned a lot from this site and changed. And now I am on the other side and looking back at a concrete example is a way of re-working what I've come to learn.

A person like this is invaluable.

 

[am4591]

If she mumbles and doesn't make eye contact, maybe she's just shy around people she hasn't known for a long time.

Also, lack of eye contact doesn't necessarily mean you can't trust her. I work with a girl who can look you right in the eye, unblinking, and feed you about forty different kinds of bull$hit.

 

[The Main Event]

Originally posted by am4591
If she mumbles and doesn't make eye contact, maybe she's just shy around people she hasn't known for a long time.

Also, lack of eye contact doesn't necessarily mean you can't trust her. I work with a girl who can look you right in the eye, unblinking, and feed you about forty different kinds of bull$hit.

Oh so true... But when you think about it, that's Tesque's point exactly.

Let's take another quick look at what he wrote and see where it takes us...

"she isn't dishonest, but I can't trust her because of this"

I think what he's saying is this: There are certain behaviour patterns that trigger a negative response on an almost physiological level--even when you know they're not an accurate reflection of the person who's displaying them.

The upshot of all of this is that you might be the most honest person in the world, but certain behavioural quirks are still capable of making other people's skin crawl. You might be uber confident, but if you still have a habit of not making eye contact, other people are not going to pick up on that confidence.

Usually, getting things right on the inside results in outward behavioural change... but if bad habits have endured for a long time, they die hard.

That's why, if you meet someone who doesn't come across quite right and you manage to trace the perception back to a certain behaviour, you should ask "is that me"? Chances are, if lack of eye contact makes Johnny seem creepy, lack of eye contact is going to make am4591 seem creepy, too.

People are all too willing to impute false character traits to odd behaviours... and they will continue to feel this way on a visceral level even when their head tells them they've got you wrong.


I am
The Main Event.

 

[bob2007]

people who like u also initiate conversations. That's something I've noticed lately. If you're always the one starting convos, then it's a possibility that you're not importantant in their lives.

 

[Deep Dish]

TesuqueRed,

Exactly.

In fact, oddly, that's one thing which has been on my mind lately. There's a woman at work whom, when I had met her a few months ago, seemed like a nice, smart, balanced girl. I tried to geniunely befriend her, but apparently I met her at the trailing end of this state. [TesuqueRed: "Sociable around those she is comfortable with [...] but doesn't extend herself to anyone who doesn't count in her world. She supplicates when she has to, clams up otherwise."]

Not long after she began metamorphising into someone completely different. A woman warped in vanity. First went the glasses, then in came the permanent sun tan, then came talk of dying her hair blonde, then came a different hairdo, then came her flashy clubbing-esque wardrobe, then came her navel piercing. Not to mention acts like a total snob (except when having to ask for something). She's now one of those self-absorbed biotches you hate to see in clubs.

I had liked her for who she was before, but now find her repulsive. The key point here is she didn't like who she was, so she propped herself up and turned into a superificial woman, at least for the time being. Reminds me of how neophyte DJs go through an obligatory phase -- and I of course went through this myself -- of overcorrecting their niceness, inadvertingly turn into arrogant jerks. Also remindful of how many neophyte DJs are all about clubbing atire, about seeing and being seen.