Ephedrine

[ddboswell]

I remeber one time, deisel said that it was possible to get some ephedrine. I was wondering where I could go to get some because to me Ephedrine is the only weight loss supplement that works, and thats coming from experience.

 

[flava]

if you want pure ephedrine www.1fast400.com look for a product called vasapro

 

[( . )( . )]

anywhere in australia its readily available?

 

[Templeton]

Some thermogenic products still contain epherdrine or more accurately ephedra. Dymatize Ignite is one. Not sure what is available in specific countries but the black market thrives in most places and epherdrine should not be too hard to get hold of. Bear in mind, your body gets used to it very quickly and the dose will have to be continually increased to have the same effect. I would not use pure eph for more than 3 weeks or so.

 

[FitnessGuy]

Originally posted by Templeton
Some thermogenic products still contain epherdrine or more accurately ephedra. Dymatize Ignite is one. Not sure what is available in specific countries but the black market thrives in most places and epherdrine should not be too hard to get hold of. Bear in mind, your body gets used to it very quickly and the dose will have to be continually increased to have the same effect. I would not use pure eph for more than 3 weeks or so.

To get the same "excitable feeling" the dose has to be increased but the fatburning effects remain even if the dose remains constant. The body becomes accustomed to the "excitable feeling" but it will not become accustomed to the actual fat burning that takes place. So no, there is no need to increase the dosage as the fat burning effects will always be there. I recommend 25mg 3x a day with some caffeine.


Also there are other fat burners that work much better. Clenbuterol is 3x stronger than ephedra but it is illegal to use for fat burning purposes. Also DNP will literally melt the fat off you, gauranteed, but it's way to dangerous to use, and illegal.

Another thing to note is that on March 1st, ephedra will no longer be available OTC as the FDA plans to ban this supplement.

 

[Templeton]

Interesting point Fitness Guy - do you have any more info on that? So how far could you take things with eph? Surely the fat burning effect has to stop somewhere. What about receptor attenuation? I know it's pretty harsh with clen. One way some of the pros are doing it is to alternate the two, one week to the next.

The classic eph, caffeine and aspirin stack got me shredded in about 10 days when I tried it a few years back but i lost too much mass for my liking.

 

[flava]

possibly one of the best stacks for me and others on bb.com is Lipo-6 + ephedra(perferably ephedrine)

 

[prosemont]

Originally posted by Templeton
Interesting point Fitness Guy - do you have any more info on that? So how far could you take things with eph? Surely the fat burning effect has to stop somewhere. What about receptor attenuation? I know it's pretty harsh with clen. One way some of the pros are doing it is to alternate the two, one week to the next.

The classic eph, caffeine and aspirin stack got me shredded in about 10 days when I tried it a few years back but i lost too much mass for my liking.

Templeton (or anyone else who can answer) ...

What exactly is receptor attenuation and what are the implications, ramifications, and prognosis for it? How long does it last after a "cycle" of eph? Any info appreciated.

And, is ephedrine THAT much more effective than your usual ephedra-based supplement (such as Xenadrine, for example)? Any product names and sources for ephedrine other than the one listed in a prior post?

Thanks.

 

[FitnessGuy]

Templeton - Excellent point about attenuation. I don't think it's an issue with ephedrine though because ephedrine based compounds are beta 1 agonists so the risks of attenuation and muscle loss are far less. Clen on the other hand is a beta 2 agonist, so it needs to be cycled to remain effective. You could cycle ephedrine if you really wanted to play it safe, say 8 weeks on, then 2 weeks off or so. This would also help you regain that excitable feeling which will have been slowly lost over time. Personally I think the excitable feeling is a good thing because it gives you energy to lift harder, so yes, cycling would be a good thing imo. Again excellent point.

Prosemont - I have heard of one documented success using Ripped Fuel Extreme(ephedra free) but the person in question followed a strict diet and workout routine. Whether or not the Ripped Fuel actually had anything to do with the fatloss that was experienced I cannot say. If you are considering ordering some ephedra I would recommend getting it here and making your own EC or ECA stack
http://www.1fast400.com/?products_id=50&osCsid=123dec13e6af403ab8edfb2218877dcc

You can get the caffeine here.
http://www.1fast400.com/?products_id=48&osCsid=123dec13e6af403ab8edfb2218877dcc

And yes, from personal experience and from what I have read on several fitness forums it seems to be that much more effective. Be careful however, as ECA or EC and even the ephedra-free versions can have a negative effect on your sex drive, especially if you take them for quite some time. After about 30 days however, your sex drive will return, but not always, I have heard cases where people have had "issues" for several months after stopping an EC or ECA stack.

Just for kicks, here is some info on Clenbuterol that I found a few years ago, a very interesting read, so interesting that I've kept the link for quite some time.

Clenbuterol handbook
CLENBUTERAL FAQ: EVERYTHING YOU
NEEDED TO KNOW ABOUT CLENBUTEROL
by BigAndy69

What is Clenbuterol?

Clenbuterol is a beta-2 agonist and is used in many countries as a broncodilator
for the treatment of asthma. Because of it's long half life, clenbuterol is not
FDA approved for medical use. It is a central nervous system stimulant and acts
like adrenaline. It shares many of the same side effects as other CNS stimulants
like ephedrine. Contrary to popular belief, Clenbuterol has a half life of 35
hours and not 48 hours.

Dosing and Cycling

Clenbuterol comes in 20mcg tablets, although it is also available in syrup, pump
and injectable form. It's also available as a powder in some areas. Doses are
very dependent on how well the user responds to the side effects, but somewhere
in the range of 4-8 tablets per day for men and 2-4 tablets a day for women is
most common. Clenbuterol loses its thermogenic effects after around 8 weeks when
body temperature drops back to normal. Its anabolic/anti-catabolic properties
fade away at around the 18 day mark. Taking the long half life into
consideration, the most effective way of cycling clen is 2 weeks on/ 2 weeks off
for no more than 12 weeks. Ephedrine or Yohimbine can be used in the off weeks.

Clenbuterol vs Ephedrine vs DNP

Ephedrine will raise metabolic levels by about 2-3 percent and 200mg of DNP
raises metabolic levels by about 30 percent. Clenbuterol raises metabolic levels
about 10 percent and it can raise body temperature several degrees.

DNP is by far the most effective fat burner but many people will never use it
because of the risks associated with it. It also offers no anti-catabolic
benefit. Although it does have anti-catabolic effect, ephedrine's short
half-life prevents it from being all that effective.

As far as side effects, Clenbuterol's are certainly milder than DNP's, and some
would even say milder than an ECA stack. There is no ECA-style crash on
Clenbuterol and many users find it easier on the prostate and sex drive. This
may in part be due to the fact that Clen is generally used for only 2 weeks at a
time.

Side effects

NAUSEA
NERVOUSNESS
DIZZINESS
DROWSINESS
DRY MOUTH
FACIAL FLUSHING
HEADACHE
HEARTBURN
INCREASED BLOOD PRESSURE
INCREASED SWEATING
INSOMNIA
LIGHTHEADEDNESS
MUSCLE CRAMPS
TREMORS
VOMITING
CHEST PAIN

The most significant side effects are muscle cramps, nervousness, headaches, and
increased blood pressure.

Muscle cramps can be avoided by drinking 1.5-2 gallons of water and consuming
bananas and oranges or supplementing with potassium tablets at 200-400mg a
day taken before bed on an empty stomach. Taurine at 3-5grams is a necessity in
minimizing cramps.

Headaches can easily be avoided with Tylenol Extra Strength taking at the first
signs of a headache.

Common Uses

Post-Cycle Therapy: Clen is used post cycle to aid in recovery. It allows the
user to continue eating large amounts of food, without worrying about adding
body fat. It also helps the user maintain more of his strength as well as his
intensity in the gym. Diet: Roughly the same as on cycle.

Fat loss: The most popular use for Clen, it also increases muscle hardness,
vascularity, strength and size on a caloric deficit. For the most significant
fat loss, Clen can be stacked with T3. Diet: A high protein(1.5g per lb of
bodyweight), moderate carb(0.5g to 1g per lb of bodyweight), low fat diet(0.25g
per lb of bodyweight) seems to work best with Clen.

Alternative to Steroids: Clenbuterol has mild steroid-like properties and can be
used by non-AS using bodybuilder to increase LBM as well as strength and muscle
hardness. Diet: A moderate carb, high protein, moderate fat diet work well.

Stimulant/Performance Enhancement: It can be used as a stimulant, but an ECA
stack may be a better choice because of it's much shorter half-life. Diet: To
take full advantage of the stimulatory effects of Clen, carbohydrates must be
included in the diet. Ketogenic diets do not work well in this case.

Precautions: Is Clen for you?

The same precautions that apply to Ephedrine must be applied to Clen, although
some people find ECA stacks are harsher than Clen. It should not be stacked
with other CNS stimulants such as Ephedrine and Yohimbine. These combinations
are unnecessary and potentially dangerous. Caffeine can be used in moderation
before a workout for an extra quick. burst of energy.

A word on Ketotifen

Ketotifen is safe antihistamine used extensively some European countries to
treat asthma and allergies. It can up regulate beta-2-receptors that Clen down
regulates. Basically, it allows users to extend their use of Clen for 6-8 weeks
at a time. 2-3mg a day is ideal, 10mg as found in "superclen" can make users
extremely drowsy. It also increases the effectiveness of Clen so doses must be
adjusted accordingly. The downfall of this drug is its ability to induce
extreme hunger is some people, which is not a desirable state to be in when
dieting.

Cycling Clenbuterol

Most users that report bad side effects and discontinue use are those who use
high doses right at the start of the cycle. The worst side effects occur within
the first 3-4 days of use.

A first time user should not exceed 40mcg the first day. Increase by one tab
until the side effects are not tolerable

Example of a first cycle:

Day1: 20mcg
Day2: 40mcg
Day3: 60mcg
Day4: 80mcg
Day5: 80mcg(Note: Increase the dose only when the side effects are tolerable)
Day6-Day12: 100mcg
Day13: 80 mcg (Tapering is not necessary, but it helps some users get back to
normal gradually)
Day14: 60 mcgs
Day15: off
Day16: off
Day 17: ECA/ NYC stack

Example of a second cycle:

Day1: 60mcg
Day2: 80mcg
Day3: 80mcg
Day4: 100mcg
Day5: 100mcg
Day6-Day12: 120mcg
Day13: 100 mcg
Day14: 80 mcgs
Day15: off
Day16: off
Day 17: ECA/ NYC stack

What else do I need to know?

Taurine MUST be used with Clen at 3-5g daily. Clenbuterol depletes taurine
levels in the liver which stops the conversion of T4 to T3 in the liver.
Taurine allows the user to avoid the dreaded rebound effect and painful muscle
cramps. It's a must with Clen.

Clenbuterol should not be taken too close to a workout. It can interfere with
your breathing and complete ruin your workout. When doing cardio, it's
advisable to stay at a consistent pace and avoid HIIT style routines.

Do not take Clen Past 4pm and drink plenty of water; 1.5-2 gallons a day

 

[semag]

Fitnessguy, if you order the eph and the caffeine from 1fast400, how much do you use for the aspirin of the stack. Or, how much do you use for a stack altogether?

is it just like, 1 of each, and one aspirin? thanx

 

[FitnessGuy]

Originally posted by semag
Fitnessguy, if you order the eph and the caffeine from 1fast400, how much do you use for the aspirin of the stack. Or, how much do you use for a stack altogether?

is it just like, 1 of each, and one aspirin? thanx

Actually unless you are severely obese I would not recommend taking the aspirin. Here is why...

This was posted by str8flexed about a year ago over at www.fortifiediron.com just giving credit where credit is due
***************************************************
I see that alot of you are currently taking ECA stacks before your workouts. May I suggest that you ditch anything containing aspirin (when taken pre workout) let me explain.

When you workout your body sends signals (i.e. releases hormones) which "tell" your cells that damage has occurred. Many of these hormones work by attatching to a receptor and then starting a signal cascade which activates "local messengers" and "secondary" hormones (i.e. prostoglandins and cAMP).
One group of local messengers are called prostoglandins. Prostoglandins are inflamitory hormones which signal the cell that the tissue has been damaged and to begin synthesizing protein. In the case of muscle tissue... lifting causes and inflammatory response to the tissue damage done by lifting. This causes prostoglandins to be synthesized and these prostoglandins continue the messege cascade, "relaying" the message to the nucleus to start DNA transcription, and thus protein synthesis. This is a good thing... it is one of the things that makes us grow.

Now a little about how prostoglandins are synthesized. They are synthesized from an essential fatty acid called Arachnidonic acid. It is called essential because your body cannot produce it from scratch. Most of the arachnidonic acid is made by converting your dietary intake of Linoleic acid to Arachnidonic acid. Most of this arachnidonic acid is stored your cells phospholipid bilayer. When you workout induced hormone (I don't know the specific hormone) attatches to the cell surface receptor, it causes phospholipase 2 to become active. This enzyme then liberates Arachnidonic acid from the phospholipid bilayer. Cyclooxygenase enzymes (COX1 and COX2) then catalyze the conversion of Arachnidonic acid to the eicosinoids PGG2 (via COX1) and this is then converted to PGH2 via COX2.

Aspirin is a covalent inhibitor of these enzymes. This means it actually attatches to the active site via an actual bond. Once it is attatched the enzyme is said to be "inhibited" and can no longer catalyze the reaction. Thus, prostoglandins cannot be synthesized, and the messege will not be sent to the Nucleus to begin protein synthesis. This has been confirmed in several experiments that show COX inhibitor administration (this includes aspirin, acetominophin, and ibuprofin) knock the exercise induced 76% rise in protein synthesis back down to baseline levels.

Thus my suggestion is to not take ECA within 5 hours of your workout. If you feel you must take a stimulant pre-workout, make sure it does not contain aspirin or any derivitave (white willow bark, et. al)

So lets recap...
Hormone signal -> phospholipase 2 active-> release of AA from membrane-> COX conversion of AA to prostoglandins(this is where aspirin stops the pathway) ->signal for protein synthesis-> protein synthesis

Ok now with that out of the way assuming you were to buy caffeine and ephedrine at the links posted for 1fast400 you would take...

morning - 1 25mg pill of ephedrine, 1 200mg pill of caffeine
midday - 1 25mg pill of ephedrine, 1 200mg pill of caffeine
afternoon - 1 25mg pill of ephedrine, 1 200mg pill of caffeine


You might want to start off with less the first day to see how you react to ephedrine. Also remember that caffeine is a mild diuretic which means it will make you pee alot, so drink plenty of water and stay hydrated all day long while taking the EC stack. About cycling it is up to you, I have heard of people who recommend cycling 3 weeks on/3 weeks off and others say 4 weeks on/4 weeks off for the same reasons that templeton mentioned. Personally I really think you will do fine doing something like 8 weeks on and 2 weeks off, although others might disagree. I have seen people who have taken EC stacks for several months and have been succesful at losing large amounts of weight, 50+ pounds and so forth. I do not think cycling is necessary but taking 2 weeks off every 2 months wouldn't hurt you that bad in terms of fat loss, and it could help you regain that excitable feeling from the EC stack which will have diminished significantly in 2 months time. Goodluck.

 

[semag]

thank you sir.

I appreciate the help. Wasn't looking at "massive amounts" of weight, just an added aid during a cutting cycle.

Las spring, when I did my last cutting cycle, I had an ephedra free burner, and I wasn't pleased with the effects/price ratio. Really didn't feel like it helped at all.